Yaa Zahra!!!

Bolani Muslim · « **on:** January 22, 2015, 02:56:33 AM »

Quote from Ameen
"We don't call upon anyone apart from Allah. And I agree with you that this is a dumb narrow minded topic but it's Ebn Hussein who believes in it. Most of your threads are dumb and narrow minded but I know you are hesitant when it comes to others. What, you've had enough already??? "

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=unClBRXjxWg

Taha · « **Reply #1 on:** January 22, 2015, 04:15:22 AM »

I don't speak from Ameen, but the practice of calling upon saints is not unique to Shi'ism. Even the Sufis say "Ya Nabi" or "Ya Muhammad".

It's called tawassul.

Ya Muhammad
Ya Zahra
Ya Ali
Ya Hasan
Ya Husayn
`alayhim salaatu wa salaam.

Ameen · « **Reply #2 on:** January 22, 2015, 04:23:53 AM »

Quote from: Bolani Muslim on January 22, 2015, 02:56:33 AM

Quote from Ameen
"We don't call upon anyone apart from Allah. And I agree with you that this is a dumb narrow minded topic but it's Ebn Hussein who believes in it. Most of your threads are dumb and narrow minded but I know you are hesitant when it comes to others. What, you've had enough already??? "

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=unClBRXjxWg

I think it's about time you stopped watching videos. Get down to reality. We do not call on anyone apart from Allah. We do not associate anyone with Allah. We do not partner anyone with Allah. If this is not good enough for you then carry on with the propaganda.

Optimus Prime · « **Reply #3 on:** January 22, 2015, 04:26:34 AM »

Quote from: Ameen on January 22, 2015, 04:23:53 AM

Quote from: Bolani Muslim on January 22, 2015, 02:56:33 AM
Quote from Ameen
"We don't call upon anyone apart from Allah. And I agree with you that this is a dumb narrow minded topic but it's Ebn Hussein who believes in it. Most of your threads are dumb and narrow minded but I know you are hesitant when it comes to others. What, you've had enough already??? "

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=unClBRXjxWg

I think it's about time you stopped watching videos. Get down to reality. We do not call on anyone apart from Allah. We do not associate anyone with Allah. We do not partner anyone with Allah. If this is not good enough for you then carry on with the propaganda.

Wait hold on a second. The evidence is right infront of you mate yet you're just dismissing it like it's a fake video?

Are you not prepared to admit that SOME Shias to call upon Fatima and Hussain by chanting "Ya' Zahra/Ya' Hussain"?

Furkan · « **Reply #4 on:** January 22, 2015, 04:27:07 AM »

It depends on what you think when you say "Ya Nabi". The intentions are important. No harm in saying Ya ... but the way I see shiites doing this is going to far since they also believe in wilayat takwiniya.

Taha · « **Reply #5 on:** January 22, 2015, 04:35:52 AM »

Quote from: Furkan on January 22, 2015, 04:27:07 AM

It depends on what you think when you say "Ya Nabi". The intentions are important. No harm in saying Ya ... but the way I see shiites doing this is going to far since they also believe in wilayat takwiniya.

Not all Shias believe in Wilayat Takwiniyya.

Here's a quote from Fadhlallah's website.

Quote

The term Wilayat Takwiniya means that Allah has given Prophet Muhammad (p.) and his household the mandate to run the universe or at least a part of it. The religious scholars are divided between those who believe in it and those who do not. And we tend to agree with those who do not, because if Allah does not interfere and has left the running of the universe to other distinguished creations (Angels, Prophets… etc) then they are independent is assuming their responsibilities and this is what the religious scholars have agreed to refuse. It is clear in this case that rejecting the mandate leads to rejecting the Wilayat Takwiniya. If this Wilayat means something else: That they (prophets and imams) were honoured by Allah in asking them to run the universe, although He is the real administrator and the only source of power. We say that since their role is to guide people to the right path, any other task does not conform with this role. It is also not necessary to enable them to perform this role. Miracles do not constitute a proof in this regard. The miracle is an exceptional action that Allah made certain Prophets perform to prove their case. But it is not a proof of the Wilayat Takwiniya, since it is not a constant attribute. In any case, what is relevant here is that Allah has ensured in His Holy Book that He is the only creator and the only one who runs this universe, and that He has no partners. If the angles were given a certain role in running certain affairs, they are not independent, rather, and according to the Quranic text, they follow His orders. Moreover it has not been proven that, with the exception of the angels, anybody else, especially, Prophets and Imams, have any role in running the universe. The traditions that say otherwise are either false because they contradict the Quran, or not authentic.

He explains the concept and why he rejects it.

Note: I am not the biggest fan of Fadhlallah, but I think he's right on this issue.

My opinion: It is intercession only. While RasulAllah (sawa) was alive, he would pray for the Ummah. Since he was a martyr and the martyrs don't die, he is still praying. Ya Nabi, pray for me.

Ameen · « **Reply #6 on:** January 22, 2015, 04:37:21 AM »

Quote from: Imam Ali on January 22, 2015, 04:26:34 AM

Quote from: Ameen on January 22, 2015, 04:23:53 AM
Quote from: Bolani Muslim on January 22, 2015, 02:56:33 AM
Quote from Ameen
"We don't call upon anyone apart from Allah. And I agree with you that this is a dumb narrow minded topic but it's Ebn Hussein who believes in it. Most of your threads are dumb and narrow minded but I know you are hesitant when it comes to others. What, you've had enough already??? "

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=unClBRXjxWg

I think it's about time you stopped watching videos. Get down to reality. We do not call on anyone apart from Allah. We do not associate anyone with Allah. We do not partner anyone with Allah. If this is not good enough for you then carry on with the propaganda.

Wait hold on a second. The evidence is right infront of you mate yet you're just dismissing it like it's a fake video?

Are you not prepared to admit that SOME Shias to call upon Fatima and Hussain by chanting "Ya' Zahra/Ya' Hussain"?

Some Shias call on others apart from Allah??? The Ahle Sunnah say Ya Nabi and Ya Rasulullah, so what seems to be the problem??? I don't see you making an issue of this. Neither the Shias nor the Sunnis call upon anyone apart from Allah. And if you want to start believing in videos where a group of people are shouting and screaming this and that then, please be wise and keep the rest of the community out of it and focus on who and what.

Also read a few Ahle Sunnah authentic books and you will find that the Messenger (pbuh) called out "Ya Ali" not once but three times during the battle of Uhad and according to the Ahle Sunnah if the Prophet (pbuh) says or does something three times then that becomes Sunnath e Moqidah.

Ameen · « **Reply #7 on:** January 22, 2015, 04:39:41 AM »

Quote from: Furkan on January 22, 2015, 04:27:07 AM

It depends on what you think when you say "Ya Nabi". The intentions are important. No harm in saying Ya ... but the way I see shiites doing this is going to far since they also believe in wilayat takwiniya.

Well you need to stop seeing this your way all the time. The world doesn't evolve around you and your thinking. Just as you see others differently they also see you. Start to accept and respect others.

Bolani Muslim · « **Reply #8 on:** January 22, 2015, 04:43:36 AM »

Quote from: Ameen on January 22, 2015, 04:23:53 AM

I think it's about time you stopped watching videos. Get down to reality. We do not call on anyone apart from Allah. We do not associate anyone with Allah. We do not partner anyone with Allah. If this is not good enough for you then carry on with the propaganda.

What kind of shia are you??? Who's your marja??? How old are you??? I've never come across a more ignorant shia in my life, I'm beginning to think you're some kid who's trolling. I've never in my life (from fellow shias at masjid, shia tv, shias online, ect) heard a 'shia' say that shias don't pray to other than Allah. Fadlullah is the only exception that I know of.

Quote from: Ameen on January 22, 2015, 04:23:53 AM

Also read a few Ahle Sunnah authentic books and you will find that the Messenger (pbuh) called out "Ya Ali" not once but three times during the battle of Uhad and according to the Ahle Sunnah if the Prophet (pbuh) says or does something three times then that becomes Sunnath e Moqidah.

Beta, their's a difference between saying, "Hey (live) mom come here and eat lunch with me" and "Oh (dead) mom pray for me, because I'm not good enough"

Taha · « **Reply #9 on:** January 22, 2015, 04:46:27 AM »

Quote from: Bolani Muslim on January 22, 2015, 04:43:36 AM

Beta, their's a difference between saying, "Hey (live) mom come here and eat lunch with me" and "Oh (dead) mom pray for me, because I'm not good enough"

The Qur'an says that the martyrs don't die. If RasulAllah (sawa) was a martyr, what's the harm in asking for his intercession? The Sufis do it too, by the way.

A mother is different. She most likely wouldn't be a shaheed or even close to the righteousness of the Messenger (sawa).

Furkan · « **Reply #10 on:** January 22, 2015, 04:51:44 AM »

Since when is the differentiation betweed the dead and alive, deciding what is kufr and what is not? We could maybe say it is haraam. And prophets are alive in their graves.

If you say: "ya nabi salam alayka" then you aren't calling upon him (saw) like he is a god. A true muslim who is born and raised with tawheed will never do that.

Ameen · « **Reply #11 on:** January 22, 2015, 04:54:10 AM »

Quote from: Bolani Muslim on January 22, 2015, 04:43:36 AM

Quote from: Ameen on January 22, 2015, 04:23:53 AM
I think it's about time you stopped watching videos. Get down to reality. We do not call on anyone apart from Allah. We do not associate anyone with Allah. We do not partner anyone with Allah. If this is not good enough for you then carry on with the propaganda.
What kind of shia are you??? Who's your marja??? How old are you??? I've never come across a more ignorant shia in my life, I'm beginning to think you're some kid who's trolling. I've never in my life (from fellow shias at masjid, shia tv, shias online, ect) heard a 'shia' say that shias don't pray to other than Allah. Fadlullah is the only exception that I know of.

Quote from: Ameen on January 22, 2015, 04:23:53 AM
Also read a few Ahle Sunnah authentic books and you will find that the Messenger (pbuh) called out "Ya Ali" not once but three times during the battle of Uhad and according to the Ahle Sunnah if the Prophet (pbuh) says or does something three times then that becomes Sunnath e Moqidah.
Beta, their's a difference between saying, "Hey (live) mom come here and eat lunch with me" and "Oh (dead) mom pray for me, because I'm not good enough"

Son, let me tell you that I have come across many stuck up propagandists like you. Don't go around beating drums based on assumptions through gossip and rumours. You want me to believe what you say about Ahle Sunnah but you want to force your thoughts about Shiaism upon me.

Simple, if I need to clarify something about Ahle Sunnah then instead of listening to you I should just stick to my opinion based on gossip and rumours and force it upon you. Yeh??? You know yourself better and you also know me better than myself??? Wow!

If I need to know about you and your Aqeedah then I ask you and the same vice versa. Just cut the nonsense out. But you can't because your mission is like the west against Muslims and Islam and you against Shias and Shiaism.

Hani · « **Reply #12 on:** January 22, 2015, 04:59:39 AM »

Quote from: Taha on January 22, 2015, 04:46:27 AM

The Qur'an says that the martyrs don't die. If RasulAllah (sawa) was a martyr, what's the harm in asking for his intercession? The Sufis do it too, by the way.

Great so Martyrs don't die right? Let's assume the Prophet (saw) was alive right now, walking around Madinah's markets and buying groceries for his household. And you Mr. Taha call upon him from the United states or wherever you are, guess what happens?

Nothing, because he's too far away to hear you even though he's alive.

So now you have a living Prophet (saw) who is under two tons of sand buried in `A'ishah's room and surrounded by walls.

How's this living prophet gonna hear you, out of curiosity? (Plus evidence).

Ameen · « **Reply #13 on:** January 22, 2015, 04:59:57 AM »

Quote from: Furkan on January 22, 2015, 04:51:44 AM

Since when is the differentiation betweed the dead and alive, deciding what is kufr and what is not? We could maybe say it is haraam. And prophets are alive in their graves.

If you say: "ya nabi salam alayka" then you aren't calling upon him (saw) like he is a god. A true muslim who is born and raised with tawheed will never do that.

And the same applies to us. We also don't call upon anyone like they are God. It's your wickedness towards Shiaism that is stopping you from thinking straight. Do you see any propaganda from us??? Why are just a handful like you using the Ahle Sunnah platform to do their dirty work??? Can't you speak about your Aqeedah?

Is it that weak???

Hani · « **Reply #14 on:** January 22, 2015, 05:01:45 AM »

Quote from: Ameen on January 22, 2015, 04:54:10 AM

Son, let me tell you that I have come across many stuck up propagandists like you. Don't go around beating drums based on assumptions through gossip and rumours. You want me to believe what you say about Ahle Sunnah but you want to force your thoughts about Shiaism upon me.

Simple, if I need to clarify something about Ahle Sunnah then instead of listening to you I should just stick to my opinion based on gossip and rumours and force it upon you. Yeh??? You know yourself better and you also know me better than myself??? Wow!

If I need to know about you and your Aqeedah then I ask you and the same vice versa. Just cut the nonsense out. But you can't because your mission is like the west against Muslims and Islam and you against Shias and Shiaism.

I fail to see anything useful in the majority of your posts. You just deny things (sometimes obvious things). Would you like us to start quoting evidence from Shia books on how they call on other than Allah for blessings and Hawa'ij?

Taha · « **Reply #15 on:** January 22, 2015, 05:03:00 AM »

Quote from: Hani on January 22, 2015, 04:59:39 AM

Great so Martyrs don't die right? Let's assume the Prophet (saw) was alive right now, walking around Madinah's markets and buying groceries for his household. And you Mr. Taha call upon him from the United states or wherever you are, guess what happens?

Nothing, because he's too far away to hear you even though he's alive.

So now you have a living Prophet (saw) who is under two tons of sand buried in `A'ishah's room and surrounded by walls.

How's this living prophet gonna hear you, out of curiosity? (Plus evidence).

You made me smile because I don't have a proper response.

My only thoughts are, why would Allah (s.w.t) keep him alive several feet underground? That makes no sense.

Ameen · « **Reply #16 on:** January 22, 2015, 05:05:42 AM »

Quote from: Hani on January 22, 2015, 04:59:39 AM

Quote from: Taha on January 22, 2015, 04:46:27 AM
The Qur'an says that the martyrs don't die. If RasulAllah (sawa) was a martyr, what's the harm in asking for his intercession? The Sufis do it too, by the way.

Great so Martyrs don't die right? Let's assume the Prophet (saw) was alive right now, walking around Madinah's markets and buying groceries for his household. And you Mr. Taha call upon him from the United states or wherever you are, guess what happens?

Nothing, because he's too far away to hear you even though he's alive.

So now you have a living Prophet (saw) who is under two tons of sand buried in `A'ishah's room and surrounded by walls.

How's this living prophet gonna hear you, out of curiosity? (Plus evidence).

And you call upon Allah then tell me how is he going to help you??? Will he appear himself??? If you drive and your car breaks down then do you call Allah or the recovery service??? If you need a push start, then what??? Lets not ask anyone or passer by for help since this would be calling on someone apart from Allah??? When you start such discussions it seems like common basic sense has gone AWOL.

Furkan · « **Reply #17 on:** January 22, 2015, 05:08:47 AM »

The following is from Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam [one of Mufti Taqi Uthmani's students] who is based in Leicester. His website is www.daruliftaa.co.uk

Saying Ya Rasul Allah.

Is it permissible to call the words Ya Rasul Allah?

Question # q-22273586
Date Posted: 04/02/2004

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

To say the words “Ya Rasul Allah” (O Messenger of Allah) or to call for the blessed Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) in some other way is not something that is unlawful or innovation (bid’a) in itself.

If a person, upon hearing the blessed name of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace), out of love and affection imagined the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and said Ya Rasul Allah or any other wording of Salutation (salat & salam), then this is totally permissible.

The wording of Salat and Salam in Tashahhud also has the meaning of calling the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace), yet it is part of our Salat. The meaning of “Assalamu Alayka Ayyuhan Nabi” is peace and blessings be upon you O Prophet of Allah.

However, if by Saying theses words, one has the belief that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) is omnipresent in front of him in a way that Allah is, then this will be unlawful (haram) and considered to be Shirk.

The third situation is when one does not have this belief (aqidah), but regards that the only correct method of sending blessings on the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) is by saying theses words, or he regards those who do not say “Ya Rasul Allah” as not having true love for the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give peace), then this will be regarded as innovation (bid’a).

It should be kept in mind that this is a trivial issue. In the Islamic history, we can never find incidents where Muslims argued and had disputes on whether one can say Ya Rasul Allah or not. Unfortunately, today we are busy fighting and arguing regarding these trivial matters, yet the need for unity has never been more than before. May Allah guide us all to the straight path (Ameen).

And Allah Knows Best

Muhammad ibn Adam
Darul Iftaa
Leicester , UK

Bolani Muslim · « **Reply #18 on:** January 22, 2015, 05:09:18 AM »

Aren't their non-literal interpretations of the verse
BTW, why do shias never do tawassul with shaheeds (except Karbala)? I've never at my masjid heard the mullah say "Ya Sumaya (ra) idrikni"

Furkan · « **Reply #19 on:** January 22, 2015, 05:10:16 AM »

http://www.askimam.org/public/question_detail/19662

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

As-salāmu ‘alaykum wa-rahmatullāhi wa-barakātuh.

1) The bodies of the Prophets are preserved and remain intact in the grave. This is mentioned by the Prophet Sallāhu Alayhi Wasallam himself and is authentically proven. The Prophets are also alive in their graves.
We do not know the reality and exact nature of the life of the Prophets alayhis salām in their graves. However, it is mentioned in the Hadith that when a person comes to visit the Prophet Sallāhu Alayhi Wasallam and greets Rasulullah Sallāhu Alayhi Wasallam, he (Rasulullah) hears the greeting and also replies to the greeting. When a person sends greetings to Rasulullah Sallāhu Alayhi Wasallam from far, the angels carry that Salāms and convey it to Rasulullah Sallāhu Alayhi Wasallam.[1]
For further details (proof) please refer to the link below prepared by Mufti Ebrahim Desai Sahib:
http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/alive.htm

2) Imām Muslim was not an Māliki nor a Hanafi nor a Shafi. Compilation of the Sahih Muslim shows that he was more inclined towards the Shafī School of thought.[2]
Various scholars have different opinion about Imām Bukhari Rahmatulllah ῾alayh’s mazhab, some are mentioned hereunder:

1) According to ibn Taimiyyah (R.A), Imām Bukhari Rahmatulllah ῾alayh was a mujtahid and an independent Imām.

2) Allama Taqi῾uddeen Subki has regarded him as a Shafi῾ because he was the student of Humaidi, who was a Shafi῾. This conclusion is not correct because then Imām Bukhari Rahmatulllah ῾alayh should be regarded as a Hanafi in view of Ishāq ibn Rāhway, Imām Bukhari Rahmatulllah ῾alayh’s Teacher, being a student of Abdullah Ibn Mubārak Rahmatulllah ῾alayh and Abdullah Ibn Mubārak Rahmatulllah ῾alayh was a Hanafi.

3) Ibn Qayym (R.A.) says Imām Bukhari Rahmatulllah ῾alayh, Muslim and Abu Dawood were strong followers of Imām Ahmed ibn Hambal.

After studing and closely looking at Imām Bukhari Rahmatulllah ῾alayh, pone will realize that Imām Bukhari Rahmatulllah ῾alayh did not follow any one Imām, he has his independent views on many issues, therefore Allama Anwar Shah Kashmiri (R.A.) and Sheikh Zakaria(R.A.) have the same view as that of Allamah Taimiyyah that Imām Bukhari Rahmatulllah ῾alayh is a mujtahid.

Muhaddise-Kabir Wa Sheikh-u- Ulamā Hadhrat Moulana Fazlur Rahman Sahib Dāmat Barakātuhum, Shaikul Hadith of Darul Uloom Azaadville is of the opinion that Imām Bukhari Rahmatulllah ῾alayh‘s Usools (fundamental principles) are not known, it is difficult to regard him as an independent Imām and mujtahid.

Hadhrat Mufti Ebrahim Desai Sahib’s view is that not knowing the Usool of any Imām is not the criteria to disqualify him from being a mujtahid, just as there were many other mujtahids other than the famous and commonly known four Imāms. Their Usool are not known, but they were mujtahids or else it would mean that there were only four mujtahids in this Ummat. Yes, one may say that since the Usools of Imām Bukhari Rahmatulllah ῾alayh are not known, he cannot be followed, just as we cannot follow for eg. Sufyan Sawri, Sufyan Uyaina, etc.[3]

And Allah Ta’āla Knows Best

Mufti Zaid Mohammed Shelia,
Student Darul Iftaa
USA

Checked and Approved by,
Mufti Ebrahim Desai.

Yaa Zahra!!!

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