Yaa Zahra!!!

[Hani]

Imam al-Bukhari related in his Adab al-Mufrad (no. 964):

Abu Nu’aym related to us who said that Sufyan related to us from Abu Ishaq from Abdar Rahman ibn Sa’d, who said:

Ibn Umar had numbness in his leg, whereupon a man said to him:

“Remember the most beloved of people to you”, so he said: “Ya Muhammad”

If you weaken it, please don't come with Al-Albani's criteria, but with the commentatory of scholars of the past.

I also found this:
http://hadithproofsfortawassul.blogspot.co.uk/?m=1

I looked into the above a while back, I don't believe it's evidence for Istighathah at all. He just mentioned the name of a person he loves, he didn't say "O Muhammad, heal my leg."

[Optimus Prime]

Imam al-Bukhari related in his Adab al-Mufrad (no. 964):

Abu Nu’aym related to us who said that Sufyan related to us from Abu Ishaq from Abdar Rahman ibn Sa’d, who said:

Ibn Umar had numbness in his leg, whereupon a man said to him:

“Remember the most beloved of people to you”, so he said: “Ya Muhammad”

If you weaken it, please don't come with Al-Albani's criteria, but with the commentatory of scholars of the past.

I also found this:
http://hadithproofsfortawassul.blogspot.co.uk/?m=1

I looked into the above a while back, I don't believe it's evidence for Istighathah at all. He just mentioned the name of a person he loves, he didn't say "O Muhammad, heal my leg."

Hani, is this narration not weak?

Seeing as though it's from Adab al-Mufrad, Bukhari's collection of weak Hadiths.

[Furkan]

Yes maybe Hani, but I remember that Hanbalis (maybe not all) use this as an evidence to say " ya rasululah" when something like this occurs.

But even if we say ya rasululah out of love, people call you kafir. Or saying: Ya Nabi salaam alayka.

Some even go to far extremes to change "assalamu alayka ayuhan nabiyu" in the tashahud.

[Optimus Prime]

Yes maybe Hani, but I remember that Hanbalis (maybe not all) use this as an evidence to say " ya rasululah" when something like this occurs.

But even if we say ya rasululah out of love, people call you kafir. Or saying: Ya Nabi salaam alayka.

Some even go to far extremes to change "assalamu alayka ayuhan nabiyu" in the tashahud.

You mean to say the Hanabalis call upon the Prophet (SAW) like the Rafidahs do?

[Furkan]

Like worshipping? No.

[Hani]

Yes maybe Hani, but I remember that Hanbalis (maybe not all) use this as an evidence to say " ya rasululah" when something like this occurs.

But even if we say ya rasululah out of love, people call you kafir. Or saying: Ya Nabi salaam alayka.

Some even go to far extremes to change "assalamu alayka ayuhan nabiyu" in the tashahud.

Yeah that's their error. They told him "Mention the name of the one you love." They didn't say ask Muhammad (saw) to heal you.

And he only said: "O Muhammad." he didn't say "O Muhammad, heal me." big difference. Taking the context into consideration he could just be saying "O Muhammad I love you."

[Furkan]

So we can agree on the fact that if we say ya rasululah to express our love for him (saw) and use this love as waseela to ask allah for help?

I personally say: Help me/forgive me for the love You (Allah) have for Rasululah. But actually it comes down to the same as stated in the first 2 lines in this post, right?

So we should watch out with takfeer.

[Hani]

So we can agree on the fact that if we say ya rasululah to express our love for him (saw) and use this love as waseela to ask allah for help?

I personally say: Help me/forgive me for the love You (Allah) have for Rasululah. But actually it comes down to the same as stated in the first 2 lines in this post, right?

So we should watch out with takfeer.

Is there anything wrong in saying "O Rasul-Allah I love you"?

Very common, just like we say "O Rasul-Allah peace be upon you" during prayer.

The topic of discussion is calling on a dead slave for help, and its validity according to Qur'an and Sunnah.

[Hani]

Basically, Ibn `Umar was from the Awliya' of Allah, he received a Karamah because of his extreme love for Rasul-Allah (saw).

[Furkan]

Basically, Ibn `Umar was from the Awliya' of Allah, he received a Karamah because of his extreme love for Rasul-Allah (saw).

Hmm interresting, can you explain this part: "he received a Karamah"

[Hani]

Hmm interresting, can you explain this part: "he received a Karamah"

A person's leg usually takes time to heal, but since he was a pious friend of Allah, a Wali, then he was granted this blessing that healed him quickly out of his sincere love for Rasul-Allah (saw).

[Ameen]

I'm a dirty sinner.  If I had a supplication, I could perform it myself but I could also ask my super religious friend to pray for me too.  Likewise, if Imam `Ali (a.s) was alive, I would ask him to pray for me.  Why should I stop asking for his intercession while he is ... still alive?

Mr Taha, because Ali (RA) is dead in this life, and thus can't hear ought' you have to say from your mouth or your heart. He couldn't help himself when he was murdered how on Earth is he going to help anyone else?

Like Abu Bakr (RA) told the companions when the Prophet (SAW) passed away:

"Let it be told that who used to worship Mohammad (SAW) is, he (SAW) is now passed, but he used to worship Allah (SAW) let it be told Allah is forever and all knowing" to the nearest meaning.

Take his advise as a hint and start developing a habit of calling upon Allah alone. It's feels right when you get used to it and won't kill you to stop calling upon human beings no matter who he/she maybe.

Brother those who are martyred are not dead and Allah doesn't want them to be called or remembered as dead. They are alive and well, just like me and you and are recieving rizq from Allah. There verses in the Quran and I'm sure you are familiar with it.

I am, but this is why I said Ali (RA) is not alive in this life. Allah (SWT) doesn't mean they're literally alive, but it is to honour their sacrifice. I could be wrong, but the point remains. Anyone who is passed on from this life are in no position to hear our pleads and calls for help, but Allah (SWT).

Brother this is where the misunderstanding comes in. If Ali (as) is not alive in this life then, this surely means he is dead. But Allah says they are not dead but alive and are receiving rizq from Allah. So what is the difference then??? Someone dies instantly and suddenly, through short or long term illness, due to accidental death, murdered or martyred, they all have left this world and their spirit is separated from their body. But Allah has singled out martyrdom and said that martyrs are not dead. So what does this mean??? Either your are alive or you're dead, is there anything in between???

[Ameen]

Hmm interresting, can you explain this part: "he received a Karamah"

A person's leg usually takes time to heal, but since he was a pious friend of Allah, a Wali, then he was granted this blessing that healed him quickly out of his sincere love for Rasul-Allah (saw).

I've never heard anything like this before from a Sunni. Healing because of love??? And this unique power, strength or what ever you want to call it, is a blessing??? When Shias say and believing in something similar about their Imams then, there is a lot fuss.?

[Hani]

I've never heard anything like this before from a Sunni. Healing because of love??? And this unique power, strength or what ever you want to call it, is a blessing??? When Shias say and believing in something similar about their Imams then, there is a lot fuss.?

If you don't know what Awliya' and Karamat are, get educated.

[Ebn Hussein]

I never saw a Shii saying ya Allah.

I have a question for some members here. Is it shirk to say " peace be upon you, rasullulah" ?

Nobody ever said that's shirk, and Deobandies have a very good understanding of Tawassul (the shari3i one not the shirki one). You have to understand the language of the Arabs to understand that merely saying Ya Rasulallah etc. is not shirk:

https://gift2sufis.wordpress.com/2013/11/07/saying-ya-muhammadwaa-muhammadaah-a-misused-arabic-expression-to-advocate-shirk/

Some even go to far extremes to change "assalamu alayka ayuhan nabiyu" in the tashahud.

You probably mean the likes of IBN OMAR with some since it is AUTHENTICALLY reported from some sahaba that they said as-salamu' 3ala An-Nabiyy (SAWS) after the Prophet's (SAWS) demise. In any case, both version (as-salamu 'alayki and 'ala) are right and authentic so it has nothing to do with extremism. What is extreme is to be ignorant of the Arab language like the Rafidah and to mix up everything, not understanding that in the Arab language one can address someone directly (like Rasulullah) but in a form of remembrance NOT prayer to him, secondly the tashahhud is a prayer FOR Prophet Muhammad not TO Prophet Muhammad (and angels deliver the Salam), so in any case it is not praying TO him and asking your needs FROM his as Rafidah and some extremist Sufis do.

Imam al-Bukhari related in his Adab al-Mufrad (no. 964):

Abu Nu’aym related to us who said that Sufyan related to us from Abu Ishaq from Abdar Rahman ibn Sa’d, who said:

Ibn Umar had numbness in his leg, whereupon a man said to him:

“Remember the most beloved of people to you”, so he said: “Ya Muhammad”

If you weaken it, please don't come with Al-Albani's criteria, but with the commentatory of scholars of the past.

I also found this:
http://hadithproofsfortawassul.blogspot.co.uk/?m=1

Even if the authenticity of the narration is proven, again the narration is not problematic at all and has NOTHING to do what Rafidah and other extremist sects do. Think about it:

1. Did Ibn Omar PRAY to the Prophet?! NO, he remembered him (in Arabic we remember ANYONE, dead or alive by saying YA FULAN ... WAA FULAN etc.)

2. Did Ibn Omar asked the Prophet for ANY of his needs, like to be cured?1 Again, NO. He just reminded himself of a VERY dear person i.e. the Messenger of Allah (SAWS).

So doesn't matter if the hadith is sahih or dha3if since it has nothing to do with praying to other than Allah like Rafidah and extremist Sufis do when they address the Prophet directly ASKING him (praying to him) for ALL their needs.

See, when I feel sad (or feel pain) I remember the most beloved person to me, which is RASULULLAH (SAWS), I do the same thing as Ibn Omar, nothing wrong with it.

[Ebn Hussein]

So we can agree on the fact that if we say ya rasululah to express our love for him (saw) and use this love as waseela to ask allah for help?

I personally say: Help me/forgive me for the love You (Allah) have for Rasululah. But actually it comes down to the same as stated in the first 2 lines in this post, right?

So we should watch out with takfeer.

Yes, tawassul bil-jah (what you explained) is accepted by the jumhour of Ahl Al-Sunnah, even Hanbalis, nothing wrong with it (also the opinion that it is bid3a is ok, a minority opinion, but still an opinion). As for watching out for takfir. Ya Akhi, please, we are not talking about these forms of tawassul and Rafidah have NOTHING to do with these forms of Tawassul they PRAY to their Imams DIRECTLY and ASK for all their NEEDS, heck their satanic scholars teach their braindead followers to NOT call on Allah directly:

So know Akhi, that a Muslims always observers the waqi3ah (reality) of a matter not some hypothecial scenarios like the tawassul that you mentioned and that Rawafid are barely involved in.

[Furkan]

Yes I agree with your post ebn Hussein. What I meant with extremists are people who only see "assalamu ala nabi" as correct, since they see "assalamu alayka ayyuhan nabiyu " as shirk or whatsoever.

Anyway, excusse me for not knowing arabic. I take your advises with open arms

[Optimus Prime]

I'm a dirty sinner.  If I had a supplication, I could perform it myself but I could also ask my super religious friend to pray for me too.  Likewise, if Imam `Ali (a.s) was alive, I would ask him to pray for me.  Why should I stop asking for his intercession while he is ... still alive?

Mr Taha, because Ali (RA) is dead in this life, and thus can't hear ought' you have to say from your mouth or your heart. He couldn't help himself when he was murdered how on Earth is he going to help anyone else?

Like Abu Bakr (RA) told the companions when the Prophet (SAW) passed away:

"Let it be told that who used to worship Mohammad (SAW) is, he (SAW) is now passed, but he used to worship Allah (SAW) let it be told Allah is forever and all knowing" to the nearest meaning.

Take his advise as a hint and start developing a habit of calling upon Allah alone. It's feels right when you get used to it and won't kill you to stop calling upon human beings no matter who he/she maybe.

Brother those who are martyred are not dead and Allah doesn't want them to be called or remembered as dead. They are alive and well, just like me and you and are recieving rizq from Allah. There verses in the Quran and I'm sure you are familiar with it.

I am, but this is why I said Ali (RA) is not alive in this life. Allah (SWT) doesn't mean they're literally alive, but it is to honour their sacrifice. I could be wrong, but the point remains. Anyone who is passed on from this life are in no position to hear our pleads and calls for help, but Allah (SWT).

Brother this is where the misunderstanding comes in. If Ali (as) is not alive in this life then, this surely means he is dead. But Allah says they are not dead but alive and are receiving rizq from Allah. So what is the difference then??? Someone dies instantly and suddenly, through short or long term illness, due to accidental death, murdered or martyred, they all have left this world and their spirit is separated from their body. But Allah has singled out martyrdom and said that martyrs are not dead. So what does this mean??? Either your are alive or you're dead, is there anything in between???

Ali (RA) was murdered, and his soul was taken by the angel of death. Come to terms with that.

You're understanding of the verse is confused described at best. Allah (SWT) is saying "don't even speak of them as being dead" to the nearest meaning. Allah (SWT) is not saying categorically all martyrs are re-awakened in the grave and then they're chilling out until the angel blows the horn signalling the final moments.

Yes, there is an in-between transitional phase. What is your understanding of when we're accounted in the grave by the angels Munkar and Nankeer? You think we're physically awakened?

[Furkan]

Ebn Hussein I just see now yiur second post. In regards too that, seems like you are against sufism.

For the ones who try interpreting hadith or aya on theirselves, i recommend to stop and rather have a look at this:

http://www.central-mosque.com/index.php/Aqeedah/life-of-rasul-ullah-sallaho-alaihe-wassallamin-the-grave-a-salutations-upon-him.html

[Ebn Hussein]

I am not against Sufism, tasawwuf is a science, even the likes of Ibn Taymiyyah wrote in support of it, all great scholars of Ahl Al-Sunnah were Sufis if you like, but not like the Mushrik ones who misuse the term and  have introduced all sorts of bida3 and kufriyat in the name of tasawwuf (just like Rafidah did in the name of tashayyu'/loving the Prophet's household). I am against what even Deobandies are against: Zandaqa and shirk in the name of Sunnism or Sufism or Shiism. Please, just concentrate on refuting Shiism, for if you wanna start this then I can prove to you from Deobandies themselves that they regard istighatha as extreme Sufis (not all) and Rafidah do as Shirk and kufr.