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Al kulayni's teachers

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zaid_ibn_ali

Al kulayni's teachers
« on: November 20, 2016, 04:18:55 PM »
Al kafi is regarded as the main shia hadith collection. Yet when I look on shia sites regarding its author al kulayni they don't mention who his teachers were.
Can anyone shed light on this?
Why is so little known about the biggest imami hadith compiler?

Abu Muhammad

Re: Al kulayni's teachers
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2016, 05:11:43 PM »

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Al kulayni's teachers
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2016, 09:37:45 PM »
Thats a really good article.
Since one third of kulayni's reports were from al qummi, it would be good to see an article on him & the reliability of his teachers.

Rationalist

Re: Al kulayni's teachers
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2016, 11:46:17 PM »
Excellent article! I want to see more videos explaining this on youtube. One must remember, Al Kulayni due to his 12er Shia background was placed in pressure cooker, so he had a much tougher time gathering hadith. Also, the same case with the narrators. Under the Ummayads and Abbasids they faced constant persecution which in result caused them lose their rationality. Later under the Buyyids the situation changed, and a lot of 12er Shia scholar began studying under the Mutazilla. 

Husayn

Re: Al kulayni's teachers
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2016, 12:52:45 AM »
Why is so little known about the biggest imami hadith compiler?

Con-artists are very good at hiding their past.
إن يتبعون إلا الظن وما تهوى الأنفس

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Al kulayni's teachers
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2016, 05:45:33 PM »
So al kulayni's main teacher seems to be ali ibn ibrahim al qummi, who in turn learnt mainly from his father ibrahim ibn hashim al kufi al qummi.
Now this last person was from kufa & moved to qom & was the first to spread the 'kufan traditions'.
Apparently he lived during the time of Ali al ridha but didn't narrate anything from him. It is said by shia imami's that he narrates several traditions from al jawad, the son of ali al ridha.
How can the biggest influence of shia hadith not be a proper companion to the 'imams of his time'?
Why narrate mainly from normal people & not directly from the infallibles who were alive in his time?
Were ali al ridha & his son really even aware of this ibrahim ibn hashim person?
Why is the shia imami sect based on some kufans & qummi's only? Which 'infallible' lived in kufa or qom?

omar111

Re: Al kulayni's teachers
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2016, 11:00:08 PM »
Although kashi counted Ibrahim b. Hashim Abu Ishaq al-Kufi al-Qummi as a companion of  Imam raza,Najashi doubted this. Khoei believes that Najashi's doubt is reasonable; because he has no direct narration form Imam raza or Yunis b. rehman; but he adds that unavailability of a direct narration does not necessarily means that he did not see Imam raza.He continues by saying that he was a companion to Imam Jawad arguing that he has narrated several hadiths from him directly.
   Like all things in shia rijal,this is confusing.And it also questions the authenticity of Tafseer Al-Qummi

Farid

Re: Al kulayni's teachers
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2016, 12:45:26 AM »
In an authentic hadith according to Shias, Ibrahim bin Hashim said that Al Jawad answered 30,000 questions in one majlis.

Ibrahim bin Hashim only reported from Jawad twice.

It is obvious he didn't believe in the Imamah of the young Imam.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Al kulayni's teachers
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2016, 03:32:00 AM »
The 'infallibles' after ali al ridha i.e the 9th, 10th & 11th (the 12th never existed) don't seem to be recognised that much both by sunni & shia as there is very little regarding them in both sets of literature.
Not to say they are not to be respected as sayyids, but on a scholarly level they weren't recognised much. Next to nothing is narrated from them nor did they produce any scholarly works in an age where many great works were authored.
The imami shia seemed to have thrown their names in to make up the numbers.

omar111

Re: Al kulayni's teachers
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2016, 10:23:51 AM »
This is a basic Athna ashri problem. A child Imam. How can a child be an Imam and the protector of every Shia property, when he can’t be incharge of his own property, according to Quran.
 Imam Jawad terminated the line of Imamat that Shia tried so hard to preserve. He was a child and he was black. Because his mother was a Nubian and because the color of his skin was dark, he was called 'Aswad' (The Black one).So even his uncles, the brothers of Imam raza, refused to accept him as an Imam. They said that a syed can’t be black.
 And only proof of his Imamat are ahadith narrated by Ibrahim bin Hisham.Can we base Imamat on testimony of only one person, who was a rafdhi?
Al-Kafi volume 8
عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنْ حَنَانِ بْنِ سَدِيرٍ وَ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ إِسْمَاعِيلَ عَنْ حَنَانِ بْنِ سَدِيرٍ عَنْ أَبِيهِ قَالَ سَأَلْتُ أَبَا جَعْفَرٍ ( عليه السلام ) عَنْهُمَا فَقَالَ يَا أَبَا الْفَضْلِ مَا تَسْأَلُنِي عَنْهُمَا فَوَ اللَّهِ مَا مَاتَ مِنَّا مَيِّتٌ قَطُّ إِلَّا سَاخِطاً عَلَيْهِمَا وَ مَا مِنَّا الْيَوْمَ إِلَّا سَاخِطاً عَلَيْهِمَا يُوصِي بِذَلِكَ الْكَبِيرُ مِنَّا الصَّغِيرَ إِنَّهُمَا ظَلَمَانَا حَقَّنَا وَ مَنَعَانَا فَيْئَنَا وَ كَانَا أَوَّلَ مَنْ رَكِبَ أَعْنَاقَنَا وَ بَثَقَا عَلَيْنَا بَثْقاً فِي الْإِسْلَامِ لَا يُسْكَرُ أَبَداً حَتَّى يَقُومَ قَائِمُنَا أَوْ يَتَكَلَّمَ مُتَكَلِّمُنَا ثُمَّ قَالَ أَمَا وَ اللَّهِ لَوْ قَدْ قَامَ قَائِمُنَا أَوْ تَكَلَّمَ مُتَكَلِّمُنَا لَأَبْدَى مِنْ أُمُورِهِمَا مَا كَانَ يُكْتَمُ وَ لَكَتَمَ مِنْ أُمُورِهِمَا مَا كَانَ يُظْهَرُ وَ اللَّهِ مَا أُسِّسَتْ مِنْ بَلِيَّةٍ وَ لَا قَضِيَّةٍ تَجْرِي عَلَيْنَا أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ إِلَّا هُمَا أَسَّسَا أَوَّلَهَا فَعَلَيْهِمَا لَعْنَةُ اللَّهِ وَ الْمَلَائِكَةِ وَ النَّاسِ أَجْمَعِينَ
Translation :
Sudayr says I Asked Imam Abu Jafar ( عليه السلام ) about Abu Bakr and Umar. Imam said Do not ask about them. I swear By Allah No one from among us died unless they were angry at both of them. And there is no one from among us today but they are at angry at both of them.The old from among us informs the young about that.They oppressed us and prevented us from having from our right,they were the first to ride on our necks. They opened a door of oppression against us in islam, that will never be closed until our Qa’em rises, or our speaker speaks. He will uncover matters about them, that have been hidden, and he shall hide matters concerning them that have been shown. I swear by Allah, no misfortune or trouble has been caused against us Ahlu Al-Bayt except that they are the first causers of it. Thus may the curse of Allah, his angles, and all of mankind be upon them both.

 

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