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Grading of Imams of ahle bayt

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zaid_ibn_ali

Grading of Imams of ahle bayt
« on: December 06, 2016, 02:10:43 PM »
Does anyone know the grading of the following members of ahle bayt:

Muhammad al jawaad ibn Ali (whom shia refer as 9th imam)

Ali an naqi ibn muhammad (10th imam)

Hasan al askari (11th imam)?

Also the following sons of Jafar Sadiq:

Ismail, Abdullah, Mohammad, Ishaq & Ali?

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Grading of Imams of ahle bayt
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2016, 01:51:40 PM »
No where can I seem to find anything on these figures of ahle bayt in sunni literature online.
They are presented as demi gods by various shia sects yet we have nothing to counter this propaganda?

Hani

Re: Grading of Imams of ahle bayt
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2016, 07:10:56 PM »
Muhammad bin Ali, Ali bin Muhammad and Askari are of an unknown condition in narrating. Ali bin Jafar is the same but Shia think he's Thiqah.

I don't recall abt the 3 others.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Grading of Imams of ahle bayt
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2016, 08:42:52 PM »
A quick read on the internet yields:

Al-Dhahabi, the Shafi'i Muhaddith and historian, in his book Al-Miizaan said, "Ali bin Ja'far al-Sadiq narrated hadith from his father, also from his brother (i.e. Musa al-Kadhim), and also from Sufyan al-Thawri. Al-Tirmidhi also narrated the hadith from him in his book. "
Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, another Shafi'i Hadith scholar, in his book At-Taqrib said, "Ali ibn Ja'far ibn Muhammad ibn Ali ibn Husayn was one of the great figures..."
Ahmad ibn Hanbal narrated from Ali al-Uraidhi in his Musnad (Hadith collection).

Hani

Re: Grading of Imams of ahle bayt
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2016, 04:36:07 AM »
So he's Majhool as stated.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Grading of Imams of ahle bayt
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2016, 01:35:23 PM »
Majhool? Not sure what that is.
Also how do you reach this conclusion?

According to the muslim scholars database, Ishaq ibn Jafar is sadooq.

Hani

Re: Grading of Imams of ahle bayt
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2016, 12:06:51 AM »
Majhool al-Hal means his condition in narrating is unknown, thus he's unreliable so we don't accept whatever he narrates as authentic. Besides the man never even met his own father.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Grading of Imams of ahle bayt
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2016, 03:00:09 PM »
Brother please provide sources for your statements. I'm not disagreeing with you, its just I only accept statements backed by references.

GreatChineseFall

Re: Grading of Imams of ahle bayt
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2016, 01:57:51 PM »
Ishaq ibn Ja'far in Tahdheeb al Tahdheeb by Ibn Hajr:

Quote
إسحاق بن جعفر بن محمد بن علي بن الحسين بن علي بن أبي طالب روى عن كثير بن عبد الله بن عمرو بن عوف وعبد الله بن جعفر المخزومي وصالح بن معاوية بن عبد الله بن جعفر وغيرهم وعنه إبراهيم بن المنذر ويعقوب بن حميد بن كاسب ويعقوب بن محمد الزهري وغيرهم قال عثمان الدارمي عن بن معين ما أراه كان الا صدوقا قلت وذكره بن حبان في الثقات وقال كان يخطئ وقال غيره قدم مصر ومات بها وهو زوج السيدة نفيسة بنت الحسن بن زيد بن الحسن بن علي رضي الله تعالى عنهم >> ز ت فق البخاري في جزء القراءة خلف الإمام والترمذي ومسلم في المقدمة

The relevant part says:
Quote
"... Uthman ad Darimi said from Ibn Ma'een: "I don't see anything in him except that he was Saduq(truthful)", and Ibn Hibban mentioned him in his Thiqat and it is said that he made mistakes ..."

So he was Saduq and made mistakes

 

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