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Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Hadith-Rijal => Topic started by: Optimus Prime on May 18, 2015, 05:18:53 PM

Title: How and where to Historians get their information from?
Post by: Optimus Prime on May 18, 2015, 05:18:53 PM

So Islamic historians like ibn Kathir (RA) and Ibn Ishaq (RA) who quote passage from history - do they leave or state an isnad to where that information has come from or from who?

Title: Re: How and where to Historians get their information from?
Post by: Hani on May 18, 2015, 10:20:18 PM

Open their books and find out : p

Title: Re: How and where to Historians get their information from?
Post by: Optimus Prime on May 18, 2015, 11:13:58 PM

I intend to, Insh'Allah.

A simple answer will be most welcome. :)

Title: Re: How and where to Historians get their information from?
Post by: Farid on May 18, 2015, 11:15:05 PM

Yes, they use chains.

Ibn Katheer usually quotes earlier sources, since he is a late scholar.

Ibn Ishaq uses direct chains since he died in mid-second century.

Title: Re: How and where to Historians get their information from?
Post by: Muhammad Tazin on May 19, 2015, 03:13:10 PM

Ibn KAtheer(r) mostly takes from hadith kitabs- (sihah sittah etc.) then a lot from BAyhaqi-Dalayel al Nubuwwat . also from Waqidi & Ibn Ishaq. And often frm Ibn Hisham.
This is what I've seen so far

Title: Re: How and where to Historians get their information from?
Post by: Optimus Prime on May 19, 2015, 03:22:28 PM

I heard ibn Ishaq borrowed from unreliable sources?

Title: Re: How and where to Historians get their information from?
Post by: Farid on May 19, 2015, 03:52:18 PM

^ Everyone relied on unreliable sources akhi. Their goal was to collect knowledge, not to separate authentic from weak, like the authors of the Saheehain.

Thanks bro Tazin for the useful info.

Title: Re: How and where to Historians get their information from?
Post by: Optimus Prime on May 19, 2015, 04:12:31 PM

Quote from: Farid on May 19, 2015, 03:52:18 PM

^ Everyone relied on unreliable sources akhi. Their goal was to collect knowledge, not to separate authentic from weak, like the authors of the Saheehain.

Thanks bro Tazin for the useful info.

Did he not separate the authentic from the weak like Bukhari, Muslim, and others did?

Title: Re: How and where to Historians get their information from?
Post by: Muhammad Tazin on May 19, 2015, 08:18:30 PM

Quote from: Imam Ali on May 19, 2015, 04:12:31 PM

Did he not separate the authentic from the weak like Bukhari, Muslim, and others did?

Ibn kathir(r) was more than 400 years later than Bukhari, Muslim etc. and he was not an expert of that level like Imam Bukhari(R), Imam Muslim(r) etc.

Another IMPORTANT fact is, in the case of history , authors tries most to gather the most Data.

Ibn Kathir(r) mentioned conflicting,differing narrations(incidents etc.) in Al Bidaya wan Nihaya with the name of the narrator/source- making a chance to examine for those who wish.
In several cases, he also commented.

Title: Re: How and where to Historians get their information from?
Post by: Optimus Prime on May 19, 2015, 08:48:55 PM

ibn Ishaq was before Bukhari and Muslim, though.