TwelverShia.net Forum
Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Hadith-Rijal => Topic started by: Nader Zaveri on September 17, 2014, 07:00:36 PM
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Assalaamu `Alaykum,
I have recently done a study on the statistical number of narrations of Fatimah (SA), al-Hasan (AS), and al-Husayn (AS) and posted it on SC. I thought I would share it here and have your thoughts on it, inshaa'Allah. These are very rough estimates.
al-Shee`ah's Kutub al-Arba`ah:
al-Kafi = 16,199
al-Faqeeh = 5,998
Tahdheeb al-Ahkaam = 13,590
al-Istibsaar = 5,511
Total = 41, 298
Sunni's Six Major Hadith works:
al-Bukhari = 7,275
Muslim = 4,000
Abu Dawud = 4,800
al-Tirmidhi = 3,956
Ibn Maajah = 4,000
al-Nasa'i = 5,270
Total = 25,701
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Number of narrations of Fatimah (SA) in Shee`ah Kutub al-Arba`ah: (Total = 18)
al-Kafi = 8
al-Faqeeh = 7
Tahdheeb = 3
al-Istibsaar = 0
Number of narrations of Fatimah (SA) in Sunnis Six Books: (Total = 9)
Abi Dawud = 1
al-Nasaa'i = 6
Ibn Majah = 2
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Number of narrations of Imam al-Hasan (as) in Shee`ah Kutub al-Arba`ah (Total = 75)
al-Kafi = 43
al-Faqeeh = 13
Tahdheeb = 15
al-Istibsaar = 4
Number of narrations of Imam al-Hasan (as) in Sunnis Six Books: (Total = 47)
Bukhari = 1
Muslim = 1
Abi Dawud = 31
al-Tirmidhi = 8
al-Nasaa'i = 3
Ibn Majah = 3
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Number of narrations of Imam al-Husayn (as) in Shee`ah Kutub al-Arba`ah: (Total = 51)
al-Kafi = 32
al-Faqeeh = 7
Tahdheeb = 12
al-Istibsaar = 0
Number of narrations of Imam al-Husayn (as) in Sunnis Six Books: (Total = 33)
Bukhari = 8
Muslim = 1
Abi Dawud = 20
al-Tirmidhi = 1
al-Nasaa'i = 1
Ibn Majah = 2
Wallaahu A`lim
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السلام عليكم
What we see from this research (and we trust it is accurate) is that the three individuals mentioned here have a very small number of narrations in both the books of Ahlul-Sunnah and those of the Imamiyyah.
However, this was something known to us all, can I ask why you placed a great amount of effort in verifying this if it was already obvious to all of the learned ones?
Also, will you place an extra effort and point out the authentic narrations from the weak ones now that you have collected them?
My last question is, have you noticed anything interesting regarding the content of the narrations in the Sunni and Shi`ee books? If all these narrations are attributed to the same people, is the style and content similar in both collections?
wal-Salam,
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What we see from this research (and we trust it is accurate) is that the three individuals mentioned here have a very small number of narrations in both the books of Ahlul-Sunnah and those of the Imamiyyah.
However, this was something known to us all, can I ask why you placed a great amount of effort in verifying this if it was already obvious to all of the learned ones?
Also, will you place an extra effort and point out the authentic narrations from the weak ones now that you have collected them?
My last question is, have you noticed anything interesting regarding the content of the narrations in the Sunni and Shi`ee books? If all these narrations are attributed to the same people, is the style and content similar in both collections?
Yes, I was aware of this. But a special request was made by someone on SC asking for specifically the six books, and I presented them the # of narrations. I appended my first post saying that this is not too different from the books of the Shee`ahs. And in order to show this, I thought of making a combined list, as I haven't found an article in either the Arabic world or the English world that has this specific data.
The main reason for me creating this lists was to take away the initial reaction of the Shee`ahs that say, "see that is how you know they don't love the Ahl al-Bayt, look how little they narrated from them". I wanted to show that we, too, have very little narrations from them in our books, and certainly we love the Ahl al-Bayt. This means that there must've been another reason as to the why there weren't that many narrations from the Ahl al-Bayt in both books.
Wa `Alaykum Assalaam
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MashaAllah, a good topic to discuss!
I'll present my opinion...
In the life of the Prophet (saw), all people sought his honorable person, for knowledge and wisdom, but after he passed away (saw), the people sought his closest and most knowledgeable companions and students.
A- WHY FATIMAH (as) NEVER NARRATED MUCH:
1- She never lived long so that she may narrate much.
2- She was known for her great piety and high morals, she was not popular as a scholar and thus the people went after individuals with more knowledge.
B- WHY AL-HASAN (ra) NEVER NARRATED MUCH:
1- His young age at the time of the Prophet's (saw) death never permitted him to hear from him much, and so the people went after his father and the senior Sahabah for knowledge.
2- In the later part of his life, he got preoccupied by the wars of his father and then was burdened with the responsibility of Khilafah for a short while.
3- He preferred a quiet life in Madinah until he was finally assassinated after several attempts.
C- WHY AL-HUSAYN (ra) NEVER NARRATED MUCH:
1- His young age at the time of the Prophet's (saw) death never permitted him to hear from him much, while known for his great piety and bravery, he was not considered from the scholars of his time.
2- He spent most of his adult life occupied by wars and politics, he went into battles in the time of `Uthman (ra), `Ali (ra) and Mu`awiyah (ra).
3- He was martyred in Karbala' after his plan to overthrow the ruler was exposed.
On the other hand you'll find much more from their descendants in the books of both teams.
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I believe that Hani is correct in mentioning that it was due to their young age that the did not narrate much. However, I feel that this is the main reason, while the other two reasons are minor ones.
It is safe to say that most of what Al-Hasan and Al-Hussain knew when it came to narrations was from their father. That being said, the knowledge of Ali has already made it to his main students. There is no doubt in my mind that if Al-Hassan or Al-Hussain died twenty or thirty years later that people would have sought their hadiths over the other main students of Ali.
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Nader, you should do Musnad Ahmad next. ;p
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How many narrations in the Shia books from al-Hassan/Husayn or Fatima (RA) are mutassil?
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How many narrations in the Shia books from al-Hassan/Husayn or Fatima (RA) are mutassil?
Don't be mean bro..
: p
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How many narrations in the Shia books from al-Hassan/Husayn or Fatima (RA) are mutassil?
Don't be mean bro..
: p
:D
Serious question!
Also - did you get my PM? I think for some reason I cannot send any messages.
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How many narrations in the Shia books from al-Hassan/Husayn or Fatima (RA) are mutassil?
Don't be mean bro..
: p
:D
Serious question!
Also - did you get my PM? I think for some reason I cannot send any messages.
I got it Alhamdulillah, I'll ask Farid to add you, he's our group "admin" so only he can add.
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What would be the stats if we added musnad of imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (rah) ?
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The more you add, the more you get. Musnad Ahmad is full of `Ali's narrations.
Also it's not a really good idea to compare the four Shia books with the six Sunni books, this is because they're written for different purposes. The four books of the Shia are not books of Sunan, they're books in which the authors collect the words and opinions of the members of Ahlul-Bayt. On the other hand, the six Sunni books are mainly written to collect the traditions and words of the Prophet (saw).
So it makes perfect sense that the four Shia books would have a bit more. Even the narrations in the Sunni books above which Nader collected, they're mostly things that Fatimah (as), Hasan and Husayn narrated from the Prophet (saw), not their own words and opinions or stories.
To find the words and opinions of certain individuals you need to check books like Musannaf `Abdul-Razzaq or Al-Awsat li-ibn al-Mundhir etc...
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Oh and Farid told me the Shia cheated in their four books, basically one of their books simply quotes the contents of the other two books, and another book is also the same as another one just organized in a different fashion.
So technically, the Shia narrations are duplicated, it is as if they multiplied them by two to increase the number and make it seem like they have a lot of Ahadith.