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Rift between Muawiya(r.a.) and Abbas(ra),Ali(r.a.)

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Muhammad Tazin

Rift between Muawiya(r.a.) and Abbas(ra),Ali(r.a.)
« on: October 22, 2017, 09:19:43 PM »
As salamu alaikum brothers,
In a previous post, a member brought up some narrations baout Muawiya(r.a.) which indicates strong rift between him and Abbas(r.a.), in this post-
http://forum.twelvershia.net/general-sunni-vs-shia/biggest-fraud-that-was-done-to-sunnies-on-their-love-for-sahabah/
I want to discuss further about a narration-
ﺃﺧﺒﺮﻧﺎ ﺃﺣﻤﺪ ﺑﻦ ﻋﺜﻤﺎﻥ ﺑﻦ ﺣﻜﻴﻢ ﺍﻷﻭﺩﻱ ﻗﺎﻝ ﺣﺪﺛﻨﺎ ﺧﺎﻟﺪ ﺑﻦ ﻣﺨﻠﺪ ﻗﺎﻝ ﺣﺪﺛﻨﺎ ﻋﻠﻲ ﺑﻦ ﺻﺎﻟﺢ ﻋﻦ ﻣﻴﺴﺮﺓ ﺑﻦ ﺣﺒﻴﺐ ﻋﻦ ﺍﻟﻤﻨﻬﺎﻝ ﺑﻦ ﻋﻤﺮﻭ ﻋﻦ ﺳﻌﻴﺪ ﺑﻦ ﺟﺒﻴﺮ ﻗﺎﻝ ﻛﻨﺖ ﻣﻊ ﺍﺑﻦ ﻋﺒﺎﺱ ﺑﻌﺮﻓﺎﺕ ﻓﻘﺎﻝ ﻣﺎ ﻟﻲ ﻻ ﺃﺳﻤﻊ ﺍﻟﻨﺎﺱ ﻳﻠﺒﻮﻥ ﻗﻠﺖ ﻳﺨﺎﻓﻮﻥ ﻣﻦ ﻣﻌﺎﻭﻳﺔ ﻓﺨﺮﺝ ﺍﺑﻦ ﻋﺒﺎﺱ ﻣﻦ ﻓﺴﻄﺎﻃﻪ ﻓﻘﺎﻝ ﻟﺒﻴﻚ ﺍﻟﻠﻬﻢ ﻟﺒﻴﻚ ﻟﺒﻴﻚ ﻓﺈﻧﻬﻢ ﻗﺪ ﺗﺮﻛﻮﺍ ﺍﻟﺴﻨﺔ ﻣﻦ ﺑﻐﺾ ﻋﻠﻲ
It was narrated that Saeed bin Jubair said:
"I was with Ibn Abbas in Arafat and he said: 'Why do I not hear the people reciting Talbiyah?' I said: They are afraid of Muawiyah.' So Ibn Abbas went out of his tent and said: "Labbaik Allahumma Labbaik, Labbaik! They are only forsaking the Sunnah out of hatred for Ali.'" SUNAN NASAI 3006

Brother ‘Imam Ali’ provided a rijal analysis, which says, one of the narrator in the chain is khalid ibn makhlad, and he was declared munkar by several scholars of Hadith.
detailed source- http://jamiat.org.za/explanation-of-the-following-hadith-on-ali-muawiya-ra/

My question is, how can Khalid ibn Makhlad become a narrator of BUkhari and Muslim(about 30 narrations)   when he is this much faulty!??
Did sahaba really had any kind of Ikhtilaf regarding Talbiya?


Rafidis usually present another narration, where Ibn Abbas(r.a.) says Labbaik against Muwaiya -
أَخْبَرَنَا أَبُو الْحَسَنِ : مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْحُسَيْنِ الْعَلَوِىُّ أَخْبَرَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْحَسَنِ ابْنِ الشَّرْقِىِّ حَدَّثَنَا عَلِىُّ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ النَّسَوِىُّ حَدَّثَنَا خَالِدُ بْنُ مَخْلَدٍ حَدَّثَنَا عَلِىُّ بْنُ صَالِحٍ عَنْ مَيْسَرَةَ بْنِ حَبِيبٍ النَّهْدِىِّ عَنِ الْمِنْهَالِ بْنِ عَمْرٍو عَنْ سَعِيدِ بْنِ جُبَيْرٍ قَالَ : كُنَّا عِنْدَ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ بِعَرَفَةَ فَقَالَ : يَا سَعِيدُ مَا لِى لاَ أَسْمَعُ النَّاسَ يُلَبُّونَ؟ قُلْتُ : يَخَافُونَ مُعَاوِيَةَ فَخَرَجَ ابْنُ الْعَبَّاسِ مِنْ فُسْطَاطِهِ فَقَالَ : لَبَّيْكَ اللَّهُمَّ لَبَّيْكَ وَإِنْ رَغِمَ أَنْفُ مُعَاوِيَةَ اللَّهُمَّ الْعَنْهُمْ فَقَدْ تَرَكُوا السُّنَّةَ مِنْ بُغْضِ عَلِىٍّ رَضِىَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ
Here the rabi Abdullah bin Muhammad bin hasan al-sharqi is problematic, as I got in a refutation here-
http://www.fnoor.com/main/articles.aspx?article_no=18808#.WezfW3Zx3Vh

In the FNOOR aticle , they presented another hadith to show the stance of Muwaiya(r.a.) on talbiya, -
ما رواه الامام ابن ابي شيبة في مصنفه : " 14665 - أَبُو بَكْرٍ قَالَ: حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ مَهْدِيٍّ، عَنْ سُفْيَانَ، عَنْ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنِ الْقَاسِمِ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ قَالَ: خَرَجَ مُعَاوِيَةُ لَيْلَةَ النَّفْرِ، فَسَمِعَ صَوْتَ تَلْبِيَةٍ، فَقَالَ: مَنْ هَذَا؟ قَالُوا: عَائِشَةُ اعْتَمَرَتْ مِنَ التَّنْعِيمِ، فَذَكَرْتُ ذَلِكَ لِعَائِشَةَ فَقَالَتْ: «لَوْ سَأَلَنِي لَأَخْبَرْتُهُ»
What does it explain actually, that Muwaiya(r.a.) had no problem with talbiya?



Muhammad Tazin

Re: Rift between Muawiya(r.a.) and Abbas(ra),Ali(r.a.)
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2017, 04:42:30 PM »
Thanks a lot for bringing up the article, it's well analyzed  :)

So, there was ikhtilaf among sahaba whether to make takbir or make talbiya specifically in Arafa, right?

it says Aisha(r.a.) did not make talbiya, but this hadith I found in the refutation of fnoor.com says she did talbiya in her Umrah & Muawiya(r.a.) enquired about who is doing that?
 and I also can not understand what did she meant by saying-  فَذَكَرْتُ ذَلِكَ لِعَائِشَةَ فَقَالَتْ: «لَوْ سَأَلَنِي لَأَخْبَرْتُهُ
Didi she intended to inform MUawiya(r.a.) about the sunnah of Talbiya?

and , further, it would be helpful for me, if you can explain why khalid ibn Makhlad is narrator of 25-30 ahadith, when he is strongly criticized ? 

Africanshia1

Re: Rift between Muawiya(r.a.) and Abbas(ra),Ali(r.a.)
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2017, 12:40:56 PM »
Brothers can you also help on this:

The Khalīfahs from Banū Umayyah were like this … ALL OF THEM were Nāsibīs, except Imām ‘Umar the Pious: Mu’āwiyah then his son Yazīd, then his grandson Mu’āwiyah al-Sadīd; Marwān, then his son ‘Abd Al-Malik

Source: Abū al-Fidā ‘Imād al-Dīn b. Kathīr al-Qurshī al-Dimashqī, al-Bidāyah wa al-NIhāyah (1st edition, 1419 H) vol. 17, p. 375

EXTENT OF HATRED OF ALI IBN ABI TALIB BY BANU UMAYYAD (MU'AWIYAH'S CLAN) AND THE PEOPLE OF SHAM (SYRIA, WHERE MU'AWIYAH RULED)


1. In the book "Siyar A'alam al-Nubala", by Imam Dhahabi, vol. 5, al-Risala Institutions, page 101

Biography number 35, about " Ulai ibn Rabah."

He (Imam Dhahabi) says: "He is the Trustworthy Imam, Abu Musa al-Lakhmi al-Misri. He heard (Narrations) from Amr ibn al-Aas, Uqba ibn Aamir...Abi Qatadah al-Ansari,Abdullah ibn Umar and a group of companions."

Then he (Dhahabi) says on page 102:

"...and he is from the greatest scholars of the Tabi'ieen (those who met and narrate from the companions of the Prophet)."

Then Dhahabi says: "Abu Abdul-Rahman al-Muqri said whenever the Banu Umayyad would hear that a newborn was named Ali, they killed him. So when this reached Rabah (Ulai's father), he changed his son's name (from Ali to Ulai)"



2. In "Siyar A'alam al-Nubala", vol.10, page 400, Biography of " Allamah al-Hafiz al-Sadiq Abul-Hassan al-Madaini"

He says: "He came to Baghdad and put a classification and he was very good in biographies, battle stories, lineages, (stories of) Arab days and he was honest in what he said with a high (authentic) chain of narration".

Then on page 402, he (Dhahabi) says:

" Al-Madaini narrated that he entered upon Ma'moon and mentioned to him the narrations about Ali. So he (Ma'moon) cursed Banu Umayya.

Then I (al-Madaini) said that al-Muthanna ibn Abdullah al-Ansari said: I was in Sham (Syria) and I never heard the names of Ali nor Hassan (ibn Ali). But rather all I heard was Mu'awiyah, Yazeed, al-Waleed.

Then I went past a man standing at his door who said: Give him water 'O Hassan. I said: You named him 'Hassan?

So he said: My children are (called) Hassan and Hussein and Ja'far because the people of Sham (Syria) name their children after the names of the Caliphs of Allah, and then the man curses his son.

So I said: I thought you were the best from among the people of Sham, but I realised there will be nobody who is worse than you in Hellfire.

So, Ma'moon said: Never mind, that is why Allah curses their alive and dead people. He meant the Nawasib"


NB: Allahu Akbar. Imagine, this man and people of Sham used to named their sons Hassan and Hussein and Ja'far for the purpose of remembering and cursing Imam Hassan and Imam Hussain and Ja'far ibn Abi Talib.

MuslimK

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Re: Rift between Muawiya(r.a.) and Abbas(ra),Ali(r.a.)
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2017, 08:05:05 PM »
^ Do you have the Arabic text for the above quotes?
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

 

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