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Sahih Bukhari and al mouawidatayn

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scusemyenglish

Sahih Bukhari and al mouawidatayn
« on: August 15, 2016, 03:02:58 AM »
Salam

I imagine you know the issu of Ibn Massoud and mouawidatayn

I have discused with one man who has refuted this claim but I have noticed his refutation suggested Al Bukhrari has tampered this narration unclear about ibn Massoud for preserve him.

Then I said "acording to Ibn Ajar it's the narator Sofian who has tampered the narration"

Then he said me " even if we suggest it s one narrator who did tadless, why Bukhari has quoted his unclear narration in one very clear chapter?" indirectly I have discovered he want to break our authentic narations.

You know what we can said About That?


PS : I am rather "chock" because the man who said that manage one frenche site agaist atheist and christian which seems extremly serious! but i just discovered after discuss on facebook about this issus in his  face book wall/personal page, he follows Adnan Ibrahim and many stupid french imams! but him, he seems very apte and intelligent

crazy wold!!!
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 03:13:02 AM by scusemyenglish »
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

scusemyenglish

Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

scusemyenglish

Re: Sahih Bukhari and al mouawidatayn
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2016, 09:32:36 PM »
http://blog.decouvrirlislam.net/Home/islam/coran/Ibn-Masoud-les-Mouawidhatayne-sourates-113-et-114-et-la-preservation-du-Coran/les-sources-de-l-allegation

There you can find all naration in arabic about Ibn Massoud and Mouawidhatayne.

We find all narrations are clear (from other muhadith) exept the naration of Bukhrari

And the manager suggest indirectly that Bukhari has tampered the naration.

« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 09:43:32 PM by scusemyenglish »
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

scusemyenglish

Re: Sahih Bukhari and al mouawidatayn
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2016, 11:45:35 PM »
In fact for the narration from Bukhari (the unclear narration) we have;

'Ali b. Abdoullâh (the master of bukrari)---Soufyâne --------- 'Abdatou b. Abi Loubâbah--------- Zirr b. Houbaysh

And for Al-Houmaydî (the clear narration)

Soufyâne ---------'Abdatou b. Abi Loubâbah--------- Zirr b. Houbaysh

Same isnad but different results you know if it's normal?

Acording to ibn Hajar the problem is Soufyâne b. 'Ouyayna. He has written that in Fath al-Bârî bi Sharh Sahih al-Boukhârî, éditions Dar Taybah, tome 11, p. 147-150.

But I don't understant. It's possible to have 2 same isnad but 2 results diffents because some people defamed Bukhari saying it's him who tampered the narration.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 11:48:03 PM by scusemyenglish »
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

scusemyenglish

Re: Sahih Bukhari and al mouawidatayn
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2016, 12:29:34 AM »
For sum up in this naration the fact that Al Mouawidatayne are not in the Quran (acording IBn Massoud). This fact is "cut".

(In Bukhrari only but not in others books, knowing Isnad are same between naration from Bukrari and the isnad of Al-Houmaydî  )

I asked Ubai bin Ka`b, "O Abu AlMundhir! Your brother, Ibn Mas`ud said so-and-so (i.e., the two Mu'awwidh-at do not belong to the Qur'an)." Ubai said, "I asked Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) about them, and he said, 'They have been revealed to me, and I have recited them (as a part of the Qur'an)," So Ubai added, "So we say as Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) has said."

Unclear narations are there while others muhadith reported the same naration but clearly



http://sunnah.com/search/?q=+%C2%AB%D9%82%D9%90%D9%8A%D9%84%D9%8E+%D9%84%D9%90%D9%8A+%D9%81%D9%8E%D9%82%D9%8F%D9%84%D9%92%D8%AA%D9%8F%C2%BB+%D9%82%D9%8E%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%8E%3A+%D9%81%D9%8E%D9%86%D9%8E%D8%AD%D9%92%D9%86%D9%8F+%D9%86%D9%8E%D9%82%D9%8F%D9%88%D9%84%D9%8F
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 12:33:34 AM by scusemyenglish »
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

Farid

Re: Sahih Bukhari and al mouawidatayn
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2016, 12:45:53 PM »
Inshallah I'll take a look at this when I get home.

scusemyenglish

Re: Sahih Bukhari and al mouawidatayn
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2016, 02:30:06 PM »
Inshallah I'll take a look at this when I get home.

Soubhan Allah I have decided to not go to website of deviants because our scholars have said it's forbidden EXEPT for refut them. and I go only in website of Sounni.

But you go in some website you left it with bigger problems... because deviants use "same argument like real muslims"

The worst I have contacted him (the manager of website which seemed serious) in his facebook and He persist with his article .  Then when i have seen his personal page with adnan ibrahim I have understood...


Ingeniously I thought it's was an mistake from the manager but not it"was deliberated...
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 02:40:15 PM by scusemyenglish »
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

Farid

Re: Sahih Bukhari and al mouawidatayn
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2016, 03:07:17 AM »
Akhi, I looked up the narration in Al Bukhari, and I found the same wording in Al Dulabi's Al-Kuna, hadith #345.

This is proof that this wording was not from Al Bukhari, but from someone else in the chain. Al Bukhari was suggesting that this verse is about Al Mu'awithatain as well, since he put it in that chapter. Meaning, if he wanted to distort a narration, then why put it in that chapter? Also, why put the hadith in the book in the first place if you are going to distort it?!

scusemyenglish

Re: Sahih Bukhari and al mouawidatayn
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2016, 02:27:14 PM »
Akhi, I looked up the narration in Al Bukhari, and I found the same wording in Al Dulabi's Al-Kuna, hadith #345.

This is proof that this wording was not from Al Bukhari, but from someone else in the chain. Al Bukhari was suggesting that this verse is about Al Mu'awithatain as well, since he put it in that chapter. Meaning, if he wanted to distort a narration, then why put it in that chapter? Also, why put the hadith in the book in the first place if you are going to distort it?!

Salam.

Yes I also though that If Bukhari wanted to distort it why he would  not have put it in his book.

But About the isnad. why we have the same isnad that Al-Houmaydî?

We can have 1 reporter saying sometime 1 things and another times other things? (it's the view of Ibn Hajar)

Another thing . How we can imagine El Bukhari knew the fact that this hadith is linked with al mouawidatayn while we have no mention of It in the hadith ?

Sahit.
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

Farid

Re: Sahih Bukhari and al mouawidatayn
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2016, 10:47:12 PM »
Wa alaykum alsalam akhi,

It is as you said, the narrators have narrated this narration more than once. Sometimes in lengthier sentences, as you can see from the article that you have shared.

I believe Al Bukhari knew of both versions, but only chose to include this one.

 

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