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Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Hadith-Rijal => Topic started by: Arabismo on March 07, 2016, 10:05:37 PM

Title: Shia confused about the meaning of mutwatir and claim tawatur for fabrication.
Post by: Arabismo on March 07, 2016, 10:05:37 PM

I been trying to explain to my rafidite friends that the hadith "Your shia will be in heaven" is not mutawatir nor anywhere close. Here: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234951694-o-ali-you-and-your-shia-will-be-in-paradise/?page=2

They seem to be confused about the meaning of mutwatir and they quote ibn hajar as stating if a hadith is mutwatir the chain does not matter.

I was wonder if the brothers here have done an article adressing this so that our rafidite friends can stop being confused.

Also from my understand the hadith goes back to سوار most of the times, please correct me if this is wrong :)

Title: Re: Shia confused about the meaning of mutwatir and claim tawatur for fabrication.
Post by: Hani on March 07, 2016, 10:36:58 PM

I will write an article if Allah permits in the future explaining why the Imami Shia cannot have any Mutawatir narration in the first place (They don't have enough Hadith books).

Title: Re: Shia confused about the meaning of mutwatir and claim tawatur for fabrication.
Post by: Farid on March 08, 2016, 05:21:27 AM

http://twelvershia.net/2014/08/25/understanding-the-mutawatir-and-the-tawatur/

Related topic.

Title: Re: Shia confused about the meaning of mutwatir and claim tawatur for fabrication.
Post by: MuslimAnswers on March 08, 2016, 07:40:14 AM

Quote

They seem to be confused about the meaning of mutwatir and they quote ibn hajar as stating if a hadith is mutwatir the chain does not matter.

They would have to then struggle with quite a number of explicitly anti-Shia conclusions reached by the Ummah via Tawaatur, either in wording or in meaning.

Title: Re: Shia confused about the meaning of mutwatir and claim tawatur for fabrication.
Post by: Ibn Yahya on March 09, 2016, 08:29:07 PM

Reference spam = Mutawatir :P

Title: Re: Shia confused about the meaning of mutwatir and claim tawatur for fabrication.
Post by: GreatChineseFall on March 09, 2016, 11:00:50 PM

They would have to then struggle with quite a number of explicitly anti-Shia conclusions reached by the Ummah via Tawaatur, either in wording or in meaning.
[/quote]

Mutawatir can't mean much to them, because they already pre-suppose most people apostated. It is usually used to convince sunni's only. Which is kind of weird, considering all the other mutawatir narrations.

Btw, oes anybody know which narration is most narrated that has some political implications? So not about dietary laws or something like that.

Title: Re: Shia confused about the meaning of mutwatir and claim tawatur for fabrication.
Post by: al-kulayni on March 11, 2016, 12:58:40 PM

Assalamu Aleykum akhi,

You can send it to them :
نّ أصحاب الائمة عليهم السلام وإن بذلوا غاية جهدهم واهتمامهم في أمر الحديث وحفظه من الضياع والإندراس حسبما أمرهم به الائمة عليهم السلام، إلاّ أنّهم عاشوا في دور التقيّة، ولم يتمكّنوا من نشر الاحاديث علناً، فكيف بلغت هذه الاحاديث حدّ التواتر أو قريباً منه! وهذا ابن أبي عمير حبس أيام الرشيد، وطلب منه أن يدلّ على مواضع الشيعة وأصحاب موسى بن جعفر عليه السلام، وأنّ أخته دفنت كتبه عندما كان في الحبس فهلكت، أو تركها في غرفته، فسال عليها المطر فهلكت. وهكذا حال سائر أصحاب الائمة عليهم السلام، فإنّ شدّتهم في ماكانوا عليه، وعدم تمكّنهم من نشر الاحاديث علناً ممّا لا شكّ فيه ذو مسكة. مع ذلك كيف يمكن دعوى: أنّها قطعيّة الصدور؟.

It's ayatullah Al Khoei who is saying that they don't have hadith mutawatir in their books !
http://www.al-khoei.us/books/index.php?id=7040