Shia relative questioning two ahadith, can someone please explain?

[ahlulhadeethwassunnah]

Asalamualaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

There is this one shia relative I know who told me that the sunni hadith's are blasphemous and he mentioned two hadiths,
1. the hadith regarding how the Prophet salalahu Alayhi wasalam used to become delirious when he was sick near the end of his life, he says how can we attribute this to the Prophet salalahu Alayhi wasalam.

2. this one is strange and is something i never heard about but I heard some sunni brothers mentioned that it is a real hadith, and that it is the hadith which states how Musa alayhisalam got naked and ran around and let people see his testicles.

Regarding the first hadith, is the correct position that this is not anything serious because we believe the Prophet salalahu Alayhi wasalam was a human and this may have happened to him but he was still infallible regardless in delivering the message? however when i mentioned this too my shia relative he told me that you cannot prove that the message did not get affected due to the Prophet salalahu Alayhi wasalam becoming delirious, thus the hadith should not be accepted. akhis what is the correct response to this?

regarding the second hadith, can someone let me know if this hadith is actually authentic? and if it is authentic can someone explain it?

barak Allah feekhum may Allah bless you all

[glorfindel]

As-Salam 'aliekum,

Please refer to these online resources, for the hadeeth about the pen and paper:

http://www.sjiieten-ontmaskerd.nl/AhlelBayt.com/www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/sahabah/pen-and-paper.html

For the incident regarding Musa(as), it's found in their own books:
1. Hayat ul Quloob, Vol. 1, p. 240
2. al-Qummi, Tafseer, (Qum: Daar al-Kitaab, 3rd ed., 1404), vol. 2, pg. 197

https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2015/02/07/sunni-answers-to-shiapen-the-shia-rejection-of-the-sahah-sittah/amp

I hope this helps.

[muslim720]

1. the hadith regarding how the Prophet salalahu Alayhi wasalam used to become delirious when he was sick near the end of his life, he says how can we attribute this to the Prophet salalahu Alayhi wasalam.

2. this one is strange and is something i never heard about but I heard some sunni brothers mentioned that it is a real hadith, and that it is the hadith which states how Musa alayhisalam got naked and ran around and let people see his testicles.

Wa alaykum as salaam wa rahmatullah,

1.  The Prophet (saw) used to get delirious?  That is a lie!  The Prophet (saw) was temporarily affected by black magic ONCE which never interfered with his mission of conveying and explaining Islam.  The magic was so mild that it never manifested itself for others to notice it.  It was the Prophet (saw) himself who felt and cured it, or was given the cure.  This alone proves the prophethood of Rasulullah (saw).  Also, it is through the experience of the Prophet (saw) that we know how to deal with black magic and cure it.  And, by the way, the Qur'an says that Musa (asws) was affected by the magicians at the court of Pharaoh.

2.  Musa (asws) lived with Bani Isra'il, the same Bani Isra'il who rejected 'Isa (asws) despite seeing him raise the dead in front of their eyes.  So was there any other way to convince them and shatter their accusation against Musa (asws) except visual confirmation?  No!  And after Bani Isra'il saw Musa (asws) without his clothes, they never repeated their claim.  And the hadith does not say that Musa (asws) was paraded in front of the entire tribe; a few of them saw Musa (asws) and that was enough to silence them.

[ahlulhadeethwassunnah]

barak Allah feekhum may Allah bless you brothers, thank you for the clarification, JazakAllah Khayran

[ahlulhadeethwassunnah]

I also found this answer on Islamqa which refutes the idea that the magic affected our Prophet Salalahu Alayhi Wasalam in his conveying the message of Islam. https://islamqa.info/en/answers/68814/the-story-of-magic-against-the-prophet-peace-and-blessings-of-allaah-be-upon-him-and-its-meaning

[T110]

Wa alaykum as salaam wa rahmatullah,

1.  The Prophet (saw) used to get delirious?  That is a lie!  The Prophet (saw) was temporarily affected by black magic ONCE which never interfered with his mission of conveying and explaining Islam.  The magic was so mild that it never manifested itself for others to notice it.  It was the Prophet (saw) himself who felt and cured it, or was given the cure.  This alone proves the prophethood of Rasulullah (saw).  Also, it is through the experience of the Prophet (saw) that we know how to deal with black magic and cure it.  And, by the way, the Qur'an says that Musa (asws) was affected by the magicians at the court of Pharaoh.

2.  Musa (asws) lived with Bani Isra'il, the same Bani Isra'il who rejected 'Isa (asws) despite seeing him raise the dead in front of their eyes.  So was there any other way to convince them and shatter their accusation against Musa (asws) except visual confirmation?  No!  And after Bani Isra'il saw Musa (asws) without his clothes, they never repeated their claim.  And the hadith does not say that Musa (asws) was paraded in front of the entire tribe; a few of them saw Musa (asws) and that was enough to silence them.

hang on a sec mate. Didn't Musa (AS) come before 'Isa (AS)? Why are you making up stuff to desperately defend a fabrication?!!!

[T110]

barak Allah feekhum may Allah bless you brothers, thank you for the clarification, JazakAllah Khayran

I cannot come to believe that these pathetic attempts of 'clarification' satisfied you...... tut tut.

[muslim720]

hang on a sec mate. Didn't Musa (AS) come before 'Isa (AS)? Why are you making up stuff to desperately defend a fabrication?!!!

I realize that Musa (asws) came before 'Isa (asws); I did not say otherwise.  You rushed to insert your own (mis)understanding in my post so you have something to attack, a strawman basically! 

Musa (asws) having come before 'Isa (asws) does not change the fact that Bani Isra'il were a stiff-necked bunch.  Anything short of visual confirmation would not have convinced them.  And if this was not already clear to some, I pointed to their response to, and treatment of, 'Isa (asws).

PS - I wish your lot realizes that Yusha (asws), not Harun (asws), succeeded Musa (asws).  Would save you a load of embarrassment!

[T110]

2.  Musa (asws) lived with Bani Isra'il, the same Bani Isra'il who rejected 'Isa (asws) despite seeing him raise the dead in front of their eyes.  So was there any other way to convince them and shatter their accusation against Musa (asws) except visual confirmation?  No!  And after Bani Isra'il saw Musa (asws) without his clothes, they never repeated their claim.  And the hadith does not say that Musa (asws) was paraded in front of the entire tribe; a few of them saw Musa (asws) and that was enough to silence them.

Isn't it safe to assume that you are fortifying your attempt to clarify OPs doubt by inferring that Allah (Azwj) had no other choice because Bani Isra'il had rejected 'Isa (AS) before after having witnessing him raise the dead. Or it is the case that you have a weak command of the English language and thus did not convey what you really intended.

And now for arguments sake, lets say that 'Isa's (AS) miracles did come before Musa (AS). Now you are saying Allah (Azwj) resorted to get Musa (AS) to show his testicles to prove his prophethood when before, his attempt with 'Isa (AS) where he performed amazing miracles did not work.

What are you people on?? In stubbornly defending your faith and clergy, you guys tend to heavily disrespect the Prophets and Allah (Azwj) also.

[T110]

I realize that Musa (asws) came before 'Isa (asws); I did not say otherwise.  You rushed to insert your own (mis)understanding in my post so you have something to attack, a strawman basically! 

Musa (asws) having come before 'Isa (asws) does not change the fact that Bani Isra'il were a stiff-necked bunch.  Anything short of visual confirmation would not have convinced them.  And if this was not already clear to some, I pointed to their response to, and treatment of, 'Isa (asws).

hahahah mate after witnessing him split the sea, they went back to worshipping that cow in the absence of Musa (AS). Where you pulling these conclusions from. Please stop!!!!

PS - I wish your lot realizes that Yusha (asws), not Harun (asws), succeeded Musa (asws).  Would save you a load of embarrassment!

Now this is what I call a strawman, deployed to deflect attention from your pants and disrespectful arguments.

[muslim720]

hahahah mate after witnessing him split the sea, they went back to worshipping that cow in the absence of Musa (AS).

Exactly my point!  When you have a people who could relegate a monumental miracle they witnessed and go to worshiping a calf, nothing short of visual confirmation would suffice.  And that is exactly what Allah (swt) did; silenced them in a way they understood.

Where you pulling these conclusions from. Please stop!!!!

I am concluding based on the same incidents we agree upon.  I will stop if you prove that they persisted in their accusation.  Otherwise, my assessment based on the evidence is sound.
 

Now this is what I call a strawman, deployed to deflect attention from your pants and disrespectful arguments.

No, it is called putting a Shi'i on the backfoot.  You all are quite the experts in attacking things you misrepresent.  When it comes to defending your own ideology, I have seen ants do a better job of defending their colonies.

[T110]

I got a few more 'sahih' hadiths for you which are rather blasphemous also. I am interested to see how you 'clarify' these hahaha.

Al-Bukhari | Volume 9 | Book 87 | Hadith 111 - Too long to quote so I'll give a breakdown: The Holy Prophet (SAWW), after the death of his uncle Waraqa, was feeling suicidal and would climb to the top of mountains with the intention to throw himself off. Only be stopped by Angel Gabriel himself each time he reached the peak.

Did the Prophet not have faith in Allah during these testing times, after being the messenger of Allah himself? He felt so much despair that he climbed to the tops of these mountains numerous time to end it all. All this happened, whilst we are taught to never feel suicidal and despair as "Allah (Azwj) is the best of planners" and does not burden anyone with more than they can handle..... I mean come on this is clearly a fabrication, drawn up to tarnish the character of the great Prophet (SAWW).

Al-Bukhari | Volume 4 | Book 53 | Hadith 400 - Narrated by Aisha: "Once the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done."

Need I say anymore??? Him being bewitched was mentioned earlier, like it is something light, and now we have this. So let's get this straight, the Prophet (SAWW) was not aware of his actions and yet he is meant to have delviered us a perfect Quran Shareef and a perfect way of life. It is fabrications like these which Salman Rushdie used to write his evil book, The Satanic Verses. And he even provides evidences from the Sahih Sitta to back his works......... just lol.

Al-Bukhari | Volume 2 | Book 23 | Hadith 423 - Prophet Musa (AS) has the angel of death sent to him by the command of Allah (Azwj) and in return Musa (AS) slaps the angel "severely, spoiling one his eyes". Then the angel returns to Allah (Azwj) to report this assault.

You might have though the testicles one was bad. Here we have a true slave of Allah (Azwj) assaulting the angel of death which was send by his lord, who he is a great servant of. Shouldn't a Prophet of Allah (Azwj), yet a great one like Musa (AS) crave death so he can be united with his Lord??

Muslim | Book 9 | Hadith 3506 - Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) would laugh when Umar used to tell him how heas recently just come from beating his wife. And then on another occasion the Prophet (SAWW) witnessed Abu Bakr and Umar slap his wives in front of him, who respectively are their daughters.

And I am not going to say much about this one, absolutely disgraceful to accept this as being authentic.

[T110]

Exactly my point!  When you have a people who could relegate a monumental miracle they witnessed and go to worshiping a calf, nothing short of visual confirmation would suffice.  And that is exactly what Allah (swt) did; silenced them in a way they understood.

You cannot be serious....... so lets just clarify this. Allah (Azwj) tries convincing Bani Isra'il by having them witness great miracles such as: splitting of the sea, magicians staff turning into snakes, the dead being bought back to life, hundreds or thousands being being gad with one fish and loaf, the blind getting their eyesight back and etc. But you are here so strongly telling me that Allah (Azw) decided to throw a quick flash of the testicles in the mix as well. Either you are a troll or you have a sub 50 IQ.

[T110]

I am concluding based on the same incidents we agree upon.  I will stop if you prove that they persisted in their accusation.  Otherwise, my assessment based on the evidence is sound.

What a ridiculous challenge, neith can you truly prove that they actually did accept after this and nor can I with ease proves that no they didn't. You are simply doing this to take away from the actual discussion around the integrity of these 'narrations'.

No, it is called putting a Shi'i on the backfoot.  You all are quite the experts in attacking things you misrepresent.  When it comes to defending your own ideology, I have seen ants do a better job of defending their colonies.

Listen this is a very complex topic and not relevant to what is being discussed in this thread. I would give you some time of the day and happily debate around it. But, unfortunately you have demonstrated that you are not capable of critical thinking and may have an IQ of an imbecile so I am not going to waste my time.

[muslim720]

I got a few more 'sahih' hadiths for you which are rather blasphemous also. I am interested to see how you 'clarify' these hahaha.

You fizzled out sooner than I expected.  Offering no counter rebuttal, you have opted to throw more narrations at me as though this is a gossip contest.  No wonder your hidden one cannot find 313 men among you.  Masculinity suffers when feminine traits are adopted but let me, once again, demonstrate how we respond to each and every point.

Al-Bukhari | Volume 9 | Book 87 | Hadith 111 - Too long to quote so I'll give a breakdown: The Holy Prophet (SAWW), after the death of his uncle Waraqa, was feeling suicidal and would climb to the top of mountains with the intention to throw himself off. Only be stopped by Angel Gabriel himself each time he reached the peak.

The text was too long for you to quote - all you had to do was copy-paste - but typing out your own winded assessment was convenient.  #ShiaLogic

You chose not to quote the content of the hadith because it clearly says, "According to the reports that have reached us..." which are not the words of Aisha (ra).  Az-Zuhri (rah) was one of the Taabi‘een and was not contemporary to that event and he was not quoting any of the Companions (ra) either.  This is why the report says, "wa balaghani" which means "I was informed", in other words, there were certain people who were saying what Az-Zuhri (rah) added to the narration.  It is one of the stories that az-Zuhri (rah) heard which does not have a connected chain of narration between him and the Prophet (saw).

I mean come on this is clearly a fabrication, drawn up to tarnish the character of the great Prophet (SAWW).

The biggest fabrication drawn up to tarnish the character of the Holy Prophet (saw) is to claim he taught his followers to put selected members of his own family in rank and prestige above everyone else, including Prophets (asws) of the old.

Al-Bukhari | Volume 4 | Book 53 | Hadith 400 - Narrated by Aisha: "Once the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done."

Already answered!

It is fabrications like these which Salman Rushdie used to write his evil book, The Satanic Verses. And he even provides evidences from the Sahih Sitta to back his works......... just lol.

ISIS (mis)quotes the Qur'an and provides references for their crimes.  Surely you would consider the Qur'an a fabrication, right?

Al-Bukhari | Volume 2 | Book 23 | Hadith 423 - Prophet Musa (AS) has the angel of death sent to him by the command of Allah (Azwj) and in return Musa (AS) slaps the angel "severely, spoiling one his eyes". Then the angel returns to Allah (Azwj) to report this assault.

As I read the text of these reports, I can see the level of deception you are employing.  The content clarifies the confusion.  The angel appeared in human form whom Musa (asws) saw as a threat entering his house.  Just as he was able to kill a man with one blow, Musa (asws) severely damaged the body-form of the angel who was perceived as an intruder.

So Allah (swt) sent the angel to test him.  Musa (asws) punched the Angel of Death because he thought that he was an intruder who had gained access to his house.  Failing to recognize angels is not something new.  When the angels came to Ibrahim (asws) and Lut (asws) in human form, they also did not recognize them at first which is why Ibrahim (asws) offered them food whereas Lut (asws) feared for them from his people.

Muslim | Book 9 | Hadith 3506 - Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) would laugh when Umar used to tell him how heas recently just come from beating his wife. And then on another occasion the Prophet (SAWW) witnessed Abu Bakr and Umar slap his wives in front of him, who respectively are their daughters.

How is this an issue?  Has your father not slapped you or any of his other children?  If anything, you - as a Shi'i - should celebrate the actions of Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) because they disciplined their own daughters whom you loathe.  There is not a way to please you, is there?

You might have though the testicles one was bad. Here we have a true slave of Allah (Azwj) assaulting the angel of death which was send by his lord, who he is a great servant of. Shouldn't a Prophet of Allah (Azwj), yet a great one like Musa (AS) crave death so he can be united with his Lord??

You cannot be serious....... so lets just clarify this. Allah (Azwj) tries convincing Bani Isra'il by having them witness great miracles such as: splitting of the sea, magicians staff turning into snakes, the dead being bought back to life, hundreds or thousands being being gad with one fish and loaf, the blind getting their eyesight back and etc. But you are here so strongly telling me that Allah (Azw) decided to throw a quick flash of the testicles in the mix as well. Either you are a troll or you have a sub 50 IQ.

Putting aside your infatuation with testicles, the narration starts with, "The (people of) Bani Israel used to take bath naked (all together) looking at each other".  In other words, there was no quick flash since people would bathe in public and such was the norm.  You are stressing this point to create a shock effect but you are failing.

As for ridiculous ahaadith, we will wait till you run out of straws you can clutch on.  You will go into hiding once we start asking you to account for your own ahaadith.

[muslim720]

What a ridiculous challenge, neith can you truly prove that they actually did accept after this and nor can I with ease proves that no they didn't. You are simply doing this to take away from the actual discussion around the integrity of these 'narrations'.

As someone who misinterprets ahaadith and has time to type out his misguided interpretations but does not have the decency to simply copy-paste narrations, the word "integrity" should not be part of your vocabulary. 

Had you quoted the hadith fully, you would have seen the following statement: "till the people of Bani Israel saw him and said, 'By Allah, Moses has got no defect in his body.' "

There is my proof that Bani Isra'il stopped spreading the rumor regarding Musa (asws).  It was in the content which you did not bother to read or deceitfully overlooked.  In fact, they took an oath by Allah (swt) that his body was free from any defects.

I will leave you with the full text.

Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, 'The (people of) Bani Israel used to take bath naked (all together) looking at each other. The Prophet Moses used to take a bath alone. They said, 'By Allah! Nothing prevents Moses from taking a bath with us except that he has a scrotal hernia.' So once Moses went out to take a bath and put his clothes over a stone and then that stone ran away with his clothes. Moses followed that stone saying, "My clothes, O stone! My clothes, O stone! till the people of Bani Israel saw him and said, 'By Allah, Moses has got no defect in his body. Moses took his clothes and began to beat the stone." Abu Huraira added, "By Allah! There are still six or seven marks present on the stone from that excessive beating."

Listen this is a very complex topic and not relevant to what is being discussed in this thread. I would give you some time of the day and happily debate around it. But, unfortunately you have demonstrated that you are not capable of critical thinking and may have an IQ of an imbecile so I am not going to waste my time.

I may have an IQ to qualify me as an imbecile but at least I can read the text.  I know that my evidence will not backfire against me.  Thus far, everything you have said has proved that either you cannot read or you refuse to read.  Either way, you should not be partaking in such discussions.  It only affirms our theory that Shias, when it comes to Deen, are special stupid and extremely dishonest.

[Ibn Taymiyya]

I cannot come to believe that these pathetic attempts of 'clarification' satisfied you...... tut tut.

ah he should ist start beating his chest only then will you grade him rational...

[muslim720]

Isn't it safe to assume that you are fortifying your attempt to clarify OPs doubt by inferring that Allah (Azwj) had no other choice because Bani Isra'il had rejected 'Isa (AS) before after having witnessing him raise the dead. Or it is the case that you have a weak command of the English language and thus did not convey what you really intended.

I have enough command of the English language, and four other languages, to teach them to your hidden one if he mans up to reappear.  My point is quite clear but your inability to present a counter-rebuttal is forcing you to mock it and in fact accuse me of being ignorant of the order in which Musa (asws) and 'Isa (asws) were sent to Bani Isra'il - something I never alluded to.

And now for arguments sake, lets say that 'Isa's (AS) miracles did come before Musa (AS).

No one is saying that 'Isa (asws) came before Musa (asws)!  The point is that Bani Isra'il were a stubborn bunch of people and that trend continued even when 'Isa (asws) was performing miracles right in front of their eyes.  Nothing short of visual confirmation would have silenced them.  And the hadith clearly says that they admitted that Musa (asws) was free from all defects, contrary to your claim that I would not be able to prove that Bani Isra'il were convinced and silenced.

Now you are saying Allah (Azwj) resorted to get Musa (AS) to show his testicles to prove his prophethood when before, his attempt with 'Isa (AS) where he performed amazing miracles did not work.

Wonder whose testicles you got in your mouth that you mention them in every other post you type.  Furthermore, the narration does not even make mention of the word "prophethood" in it, let alone it suggesting that Musa's (asws) prophethood had come under question.

As for questioning prophethood, the Imamah/Wilayah of Imam Ali (ra) comes under doubt when we see that despite being appointed the Caliph, he did not reclaim Fadak, (he did not) change the ways of the previous Caliphs (ra) and never preached Wilayah.  When we come to Imam Hassan (ra), Wilayah is decimated given that a "Divinely Chosen Infallible" (ra) abdicates his "Divinely Ordained Right" to Muawiya, someone you hate beyond any measure.  And in the case of your "infallibles" (ra), they suffered worse humiliation than being seen naked and yet they failed to achieve anything.  At least in the case of Musa (asws), Bani Isra'il had one less thing to pester him with but your "infallibles" (ra) were humiliated without achieving the desired outcome.  The (alleged) hidden descendant of your "infallibles" (ra) is still awaiting to round up 313 men, something that brings your madhhab's masculine population under question.

What are you people on?? In stubbornly defending your faith and clergy, you guys tend to heavily disrespect the Prophets and Allah (Azwj) also.

The worst disrespect to the Prophets (asws) of the old is the claim that we are to believe that a scared, hidden-in-some-cave man is above all of them combined.  Superior to Ibrahim (asws) who gladly accepted to be thrown in the fire and superior to Musa (asws) who fearlessly stood in front of Pharaoh, just to name a few.  We are to believe that a scared man in hiding is better than all the Prophets (asws) who sacrificed so much and had no fear in the face of opposition.  That's disrespect of the highest magnitude.

[muslim720]

Shouldn't a Prophet of Allah (Azwj), yet a great one like Musa (AS) crave death so he can be united with his Lord??

Per your madhhab, an Imam is superior to Prophets (asws) and as such, an Imam must have an even higher yearning to unite with His Lord.  So why is it that you slap yourself stupid annually on the day when Yazeed expedited the process (of being united with His Lord) for Imam Hussain (ra)?  Shouldn't you celebrate instead?  Furthermore, according to your madhhab, Imams (ra) know their hour of death so Imam Hussain (ra) willingly sacrificed himself.  We call it suicide but suffice to say you should first challenge the Christians.  After all, they are not the only ones with a sacrificial lamb, lol.