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Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Hadith-Rijal => Topic started by: zaid_ibn_ali on July 04, 2015, 03:44:38 PM

Title: Sufyan Al Thawri on Jabir Al Jufi
Post by: zaid_ibn_ali on July 04, 2015, 03:44:38 PM

We see a lot of quote from shia attributed to Sufyan Al Thawri in which he praises Jabir Al Jufi highly. Is there no chain for these quotes going back to al thawri? How authentic are these reports?

Title: Re: Sufyan Al Thawri on Jabir Al Jufi
Post by: zaid_ibn_ali on November 28, 2015, 04:08:30 PM

anyone?

I have never seen this topic addressed properly on any suni site.

Title: Re: Sufyan Al Thawri on Jabir Al Jufi
Post by: matpau_83 on November 30, 2015, 05:29:55 AM

Jabir al Jufi the shia? i did read somewhere in jami tirmidhi where imam Tirmidhi rahimullah mentioned one of his virtue 'for propagating hadith knowledge in kufa' (which hadith i forgot, it was in the first volume, darus-salam, english edition)
however, he's been criticized heavily in tahzib tahzib for his shia tendency especially in raj'ah.

Title: Re: Sufyan Al Thawri on Jabir Al Jufi
Post by: matpau_83 on December 01, 2015, 05:19:39 AM

Apparently in tahzib at Tahzib, there's is a mentioned of Sufyan (at thawri) praising him.

قال بن مهدي عن سفيان ما رأيت أورع في الحديث منه

I have never seen anybody more wara' in hadith than him (meaning Jabir)

I assume that wara' here's mean diligent (i maybe wrong though)

Anyway, AbdulRahman ibn Mahdi and Yahya bin Said al-Qattan both rejected him. From my learning with my syeikh,
if Ibn Mahdi and Yahya alQattan both rejected a narrator, there jarh are almost unanimously agreed upon. Imam Tirmidhi quoted this in his Jami', as well as other great Imam like Imam Ahmad (mentioned in Tahzib at Tahzib as well)

hope this help.

Title: Re: Sufyan Al Thawri on Jabir Al Jufi
Post by: zaid_ibn_ali on December 01, 2015, 03:32:46 PM

thanks for your reply.

Why would a great Imam like Sufyan Al Thawri praise someone like jabir al jufi, especially with the beliefs he had?

Is it possible the attribution of praise by Al thawri is dubious or could it be jabir al jufi was reliable then he leaned towards heresy later in his life after al thawri praised him?

Title: Re: Sufyan Al Thawri on Jabir Al Jufi
Post by: Muhammad Tazin on December 01, 2015, 10:39:49 PM

major scholars labeled him as blatant liar, that's established

قال الحافظ فى "تهذيب التهذيب" 2/48 :

و قال سلام بن أبى مطيع : قال لى جابر الجعفى : عندى خمسون ألف باب من العلم ما حدثت به أحدا . فأتيت أيوب ، فذكرت هذا له ، فقال :
أما الآن فهو كذاب

tahdhib at-tahdhib says he is liar

( 1398 ) حدثنا أبو يحيى الحماني عبد الحميد بن بشمين عن أبي حنيفة قال ما رأيت أحدا أكذب من جابر الجعفي
abu hanifa(r) said, he had never seen anyone more liar then jabir al jufi

 : ابن أبي ليلى وجابر الجعفي والكلبي قال : أما جابر الجعفي فكان والله كذابا يؤمن بالرجعة
tahdhib al kamal says he is liar, becaused he believed in rajaat
https://library.islamweb.net/hadith/display_hbook.php?indexstartno=0&hflag=&pid=566229&bk_no=1592&startno=8

Title: Re: Sufyan Al Thawri on Jabir Al Jufi
Post by: Hani on December 06, 2015, 05:19:33 AM

reports say that people used to take from Jabir before he became a corrupt innovator.

Title: Re: Sufyan Al Thawri on Jabir Al Jufi
Post by: Rationalist on December 09, 2015, 06:57:09 AM

I think Abu Hanifa learned from him, and also pointed out he had deviant beliefs.