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What is the source of this report?

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Optimus Prime

What is the source of this report?
« on: December 08, 2014, 07:40:15 PM »
Ali (RA) is reported to have said "if you thought of a good deed then Abu Bakr would've already done it".

Or something like that. A brother from the Qur'an Weekly quoted it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6OzLQ-TY_g

Right, at the start.

Optimus Prime

Re: What is the source of this report?
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2014, 11:22:39 AM »
Anyone, please?

Hani

Re: What is the source of this report?
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2014, 12:08:14 PM »
We don't know it bro.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Optimus Prime

Re: What is the source of this report?
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2014, 01:03:36 PM »
We don't know it bro.

This is the actual video, I was referring to.



Farid?

Listen to the first minute.

Furkan

Re: What is the source of this report?
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2015, 11:47:51 PM »
I also would like to know it's source.
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Ebn Hussein

Re: What is the source of this report?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2015, 06:28:41 AM »
There are at least two narrations by two different Sahaba (that alone proves how superior Abu Bakr was to everyone else) who said something to that account. This one is by Ibn Mas3ud (narrated by Imam Ahmad)

وأخرج الإمام أحمد عن ابن مسعود قال : مر بي رسول الله - صلى الله عليه وسلم - وأبو بكر وعمر ، وأنا أحمد الله - عز وجل - وأصلي على النبي - صلى الله عليه وسلم - فقال : ( سل تعط ) ولم أسمعه فأدلج أبو بكر فسرني بما قال النبي - صلى الله عليه وسلم - ثم أتاني عمر فأخبرني بما قال النبي - صلى الله عليه وسلم - فقلت : قد سبقك إليها أبو بكر . قال عمر : ما استبقنا بخير إلا قد سبقني إليه إنه كان سباقاً للخيرات...

Something similar (as the brother mentioned in the clip) has been SAID by Ali:

وعن صلة بن زفر قال: كان علي إذا ذكر عنده أبو بكر قال: السباق يذكرون السباق قال: والذي نفسي بيده ما استبقنا إلى خير قط إلا سبقنا إليه أبو بكر

یاض الضرۃ ، ج ۱ ص ۱۵۶
تاریخ الخلفاء ص ۴۴
کنز العمال ج ۶ ص ۸۱۳

Translation:

Sila bin Nadhar narrates when Abu Bakr was mentioned in front of Ali , than he would say "a person who excelled others greatly is being mentioned, by the One in whose hand is my life, whenever we intended to do a good work, than Abu Bakr excelled us in that "

« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 06:32:03 AM by Ebn Hussein »
الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

Furkan

Re: What is the source of this report?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2015, 12:16:25 PM »
Barak allahu feek
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Ameen

Re: What is the source of this report?
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2015, 12:51:38 PM »
Brothers how much of these narrations are Sehih and how much are false, one needs to look in to that. This is exactly what you say and how you respond, when I or others put something forward. We can say that "we do not believe in these narrations", and this is nothing unusual because it's something you say and you have a right to and so do we. You've put narrations forward supporting your belief in the superiority of a certain companion. Give us something direct from the Quran about the superiority of this particular individual.

Hani

Re: What is the source of this report?
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2015, 12:56:09 PM »
Brothers how much of these narrations are Sehih and how much are false, one needs to look in to that. This is exactly what you say and how you respond, when I or others put something forward. We can say that "we do not believe in these narrations", and this is nothing unusual because it's something you say and you have a right to and so do we. You've put narrations forward supporting your belief in the superiority of a certain companion. Give us something direct from the Quran about the superiority of this particular individual.


No Sahabi is mentioned in the Qur'an except Zayd ibn Harithah the adopted son of our Prophet (saw).


In this case you will have to refer to Hadith, and in Hadith both Abu Bakr and `Ali have undeniable virtues. We as people of Haqq accept what is authentic and establish it, whereas the Imamiyyah will accept `Ali's virtues regardless of chains and reject the virtues of other companions no matter how authentic the chains.


Care for some examples?
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Optimus Prime

Re: What is the source of this report?
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2015, 01:24:57 PM »
Brothers how much of these narrations are Sehih and how much are false, one needs to look in to that. This is exactly what you say and how you respond, when I or others put something forward. We can say that "we do not believe in these narrations", and this is nothing unusual because it's something you say and you have a right to and so do we. You've put narrations forward supporting your belief in the superiority of a certain companion. Give us something direct from the Quran about the superiority of this particular individual.


No Sahabi is mentioned in the Qur'an except Zayd ibn Harithah the adopted son of our Prophet (saw).


In this case you will have to refer to Hadith, and in Hadith both Abu Bakr and `Ali have undeniable virtues. We as people of Haqq accept what is authentic and establish it, whereas the Imamiyyah will accept `Ali's virtues regardless of chains and reject the virtues of other companions no matter how authentic the chains.


Care for some examples?

Oh yes, please, Hani! :D

Optimus Prime

Re: What is the source of this report?
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2015, 01:25:59 PM »
There are at least two narrations by two different Sahaba (that alone proves how superior Abu Bakr was to everyone else) who said something to that account. This one is by Ibn Mas3ud (narrated by Imam Ahmad)

وأخرج الإمام أحمد عن ابن مسعود قال : مر بي رسول الله - صلى الله عليه وسلم - وأبو بكر وعمر ، وأنا أحمد الله - عز وجل - وأصلي على النبي - صلى الله عليه وسلم - فقال : ( سل تعط ) ولم أسمعه فأدلج أبو بكر فسرني بما قال النبي - صلى الله عليه وسلم - ثم أتاني عمر فأخبرني بما قال النبي - صلى الله عليه وسلم - فقلت : قد سبقك إليها أبو بكر . قال عمر : ما استبقنا بخير إلا قد سبقني إليه إنه كان سباقاً للخيرات...

Something similar (as the brother mentioned in the clip) has been SAID by Ali:

وعن صلة بن زفر قال: كان علي إذا ذكر عنده أبو بكر قال: السباق يذكرون السباق قال: والذي نفسي بيده ما استبقنا إلى خير قط إلا سبقنا إليه أبو بكر

یاض الضرۃ ، ج ۱ ص ۱۵۶
تاریخ الخلفاء ص ۴۴
کنز العمال ج ۶ ص ۸۱۳

Translation:

Sila bin Nadhar narrates when Abu Bakr was mentioned in front of Ali , than he would say "a person who excelled others greatly is being mentioned, by the One in whose hand is my life, whenever we intended to do a good work, than Abu Bakr excelled us in that "

Jazak'Allah, akhi. May Allah bless you.

Can you state the sources of these two narrations, and are they graded authentic?

MuslimK

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Re: What is the source of this report?
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2015, 02:13:50 PM »

Jazak'Allah, akhi. May Allah bless you.

Can you state the sources of these two narrations, and are they graded authentic?

The brother has already given the sources in the post.

The first one is from Musnad Ahmad.

The source of the second report is Tarikh al-Khulafa p.44, kanzul Amal v.6, p. 813

Here is another similar report:

https://islamistruth.wordpress.com/2013/05/30/ali-abubakr-used-to-surpass-us-in-good-deeds/

در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Optimus Prime

Re: What is the source of this report?
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2015, 03:43:48 PM »

Jazak'Allah, akhi. May Allah bless you.

Can you state the sources of these two narrations, and are they graded authentic?

The brother has already given the sources in the post.

The first one is from Musnad Ahmad.

The source of the second report is Tarikh al-Khulafa p.44, kanzul Amal v.6, p. 813

Here is another similar report:

https://islamistruth.wordpress.com/2013/05/30/ali-abubakr-used-to-surpass-us-in-good-deeds/

Thank you for highlighting that brother. I overlooked that.

 

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