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Why is islamic calligraphy not allowed?

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sid

Why is islamic calligraphy not allowed?
« on: September 16, 2016, 07:23:45 PM »
Why is islamic calligraphy not allowed in sunni islam, since the mosques have islamic calligraphy on the walls, on the kaaba? and the fact that there IS NO HADITH FORBIDDING IT.

http://www.muslimsandtheworld.com/is-it-halal-to-use-islamic-calligraphy-as-wall-decor/ i read the comments they were shocking, this man roth, i cant even.

Abu Muhammad

Re: Why is islamic calligraphy not allowed?
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2016, 03:02:52 AM »
1. How can you come up with the conclusion of what Sunni believe from just one article (and a YouTube video) coming from an Australian convert by the name Adam Roth?

2. Please consult Sunni Ulama' with regard to this fiqh issue. I don't think we have fiqh scholars in this forum as far as I know.

sid

Re: Why is islamic calligraphy not allowed?
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2016, 06:07:17 AM »
1. How can you come up with the conclusion of what Sunni believe from just one article (and a YouTube video) coming from an Australian convert by the name Adam Roth?

2. Please consult Sunni Ulama' with regard to this fiqh issue. I don't think we have fiqh scholars in this forum as far as I know.

The thing i searched it up on google is islamic callgraphy not allowed, and unfortunately other sites said the same thing it is not allowed try islamqa. the site

Bolani Muslim

Re: Why is islamic calligraphy not allowed?
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2016, 07:11:51 AM »
Salaam bro, as a follow of one of the four orthodox schools of Sunni Islam, I am biased in who I prefer to take deen from. This is the first time I've heard this accusation and on a quick search, the proponents of 'Islamic Calligraphy being Haraam' seem to be a fringe group of 'evangelical' Salafis who think they know a lot about Islam because they've read a few books (I think we've all had similar phases). The writer himself is a convert and never studied Islam formally (the bulk of these online 'keyboard jihadis'). Both sides have misconceptions about each other, just as Sunnis unfortunately have misconceptions about the bulk of Shias due to reading misleading or odd opinions from the internet, I believe the occurred true when you read this article by this man. The other articles are weird as-well and I advise you to stay away from it.

If this holds true then me, every Muslim household, and every Islamic Center/Institute in the world would be committing bidah and need to remodel and only Mr. Adam Roth (may Allah swt guide him) would be on the haq.

This is the ruling from a site that promotes the following of the four schools (aka, traditional Sunni Islam for the past +1,200 years):
http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2012/09/19/rulings-regarding-selling-and-displaying-islamic-wall-stickers/

sid

Re: Why is islamic calligraphy not allowed?
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2016, 05:14:35 AM »
Salaam bro, as a follow of one of the four orthodox schools of Sunni Islam, I am biased in who I prefer to take deen from. This is the first time I've heard this accusation and on a quick search, the proponents of 'Islamic Calligraphy being Haraam' seem to be a fringe group of 'evangelical' Salafis who think they know a lot about Islam because they've read a few books (I think we've all had similar phases). The writer himself is a convert and never studied Islam formally (the bulk of these online 'keyboard jihadis'). Both sides have misconceptions about each other, just as Sunnis unfortunately have misconceptions about the bulk of Shias due to reading misleading or odd opinions from the internet, I believe the occurred true when you read this article by this man. The other articles are weird as-well and I advise you to stay away from it.

If this holds true then me, every Muslim household, and every Islamic Center/Institute in the world would be committing bidah and need to remodel and only Mr. Adam Roth (may Allah swt guide him) would be on the haq.

This is the ruling from a site that promotes the following of the four schools (aka, traditional Sunni Islam for the past +1,200 years):
http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2012/09/19/rulings-regarding-selling-and-displaying-islamic-wall-stickers/

it is not only him, it is also islamqa that says it is prohibited on few actions, and one of the statments they made you shouldnt feel spiritual because of the names of Allah in front of you, i wanted to know what sunnis thought of this? and what do they think of islamqa because that site comes up a lot in terms of sunni islamic law. but why is it supposedly haram when saudi arabia is doing it in their mosques and on their black cloth which covers the kaaba? i mean the scholars of saudi arabia who allow the gold and the calligraphy of the kaaba's cloth are bidahers? or if not the cloth then the mosques and islamqa and adam roth are ??

sid

Re: Why is islamic calligraphy not allowed?
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2016, 05:15:24 AM »
you knowi know there are 87 views on this question, can others please reply? and shed some light on this?

al-Habib

Re: Why is islamic calligraphy not allowed?
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2016, 12:34:05 PM »
I don't think the issue is with calligraphy, It's with using the Qur'an and names of Allah as decorations.  The Qur'an is meant to be read and pondered upon, not used as a shiny ornament on the wall.  Same with the names of Allah, or Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم), we invoke Allah to seek blessings and send durood on the Prophet for the same reason.  When people hang it up for decor it's disrespectful and if you use it as a means of nearness to Allah then it's a bid'ah.
 

sid

Re: Why is islamic calligraphy not allowed?
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2016, 06:00:01 AM »
I don't think the issue is with calligraphy, It's with using the Qur'an and names of Allah as decorations.  The Qur'an is meant to be read and pondered upon, not used as a shiny ornament on the wall.  Same with the names of Allah, or Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم), we invoke Allah to seek blessings and send durood on the Prophet for the same reason.  When people hang it up for decor it's disrespectful and if you use it as a means of nearness to Allah then it's a bid'ah.

and what is wrong with the names of Allah, if looking at them even if not reading them makes you feel spirtual because you see something which reminds you of Allah SWT and who could  state this is a bidah? do you have proof from hadith forbbiding these actions? arent we as muslims supposed to feel spiritual in any ways even new ways possible? then why do mosques have these names inside.i actually thought decoration of arabic lettering was an alternative to drawings in sunni islam ,the writing of Bismillah and such after all look at the writings of the Quran themselves, if they are decorated, and written in different even beautiful fonts stop trying to make uncessesary things bidah bidah bidah. there is no hadith even,

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Why is islamic calligraphy not allowed?
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2016, 05:56:44 PM »
I don't think the issue is with calligraphy, It's with using the Qur'an and names of Allah as decorations.  The Qur'an is meant to be read and pondered upon, not used as a shiny ornament on the wall.  Same with the names of Allah, or Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم), we invoke Allah to seek blessings and send durood on the Prophet for the same reason.  When people hang it up for decor it's disrespectful and if you use it as a means of nearness to Allah then it's a bid'ah.

and what is wrong with the names of Allah, if looking at them even if not reading them makes you feel spirtual because you see something which reminds you of Allah SWT and who could  state this is a bidah? do you have proof from hadith forbbiding these actions? arent we as muslims supposed to feel spiritual in any ways even new ways possible? then why do mosques have these names inside.i actually thought decoration of arabic lettering was an alternative to drawings in sunni islam ,the writing of Bismillah and such after all look at the writings of the Quran themselves, if they are decorated, and written in different even beautiful fonts stop trying to make uncessesary things bidah bidah bidah. there is no hadith even,

The Fatwa you quoted shares opinion of scholars that it is disliked. They didn't say its Haram. We must respect the views of Scholars and they have their reasons, whether you agree or disagree its upto you. And no ones does taqleed of the scholars you quoted.

sid

Re: Why is islamic calligraphy not allowed?
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2016, 02:53:36 AM »
I don't think the issue is with calligraphy, It's with using the Qur'an and names of Allah as decorations.  The Qur'an is meant to be read and pondered upon, not used as a shiny ornament on the wall.  Same with the names of Allah, or Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم), we invoke Allah to seek blessings and send durood on the Prophet for the same reason.  When people hang it up for decor it's disrespectful and if you use it as a means of nearness to Allah then it's a bid'ah.

and what is wrong with the names of Allah, if looking at them even if not reading them makes you feel spirtual because you see something which reminds you of Allah SWT and who could  state this is a bidah? do you have proof from hadith forbbiding these actions? arent we as muslims supposed to feel spiritual in any ways even new ways possible? then why do mosques have these names inside.i actually thought decoration of arabic lettering was an alternative to drawings in sunni islam ,the writing of Bismillah and such after all look at the writings of the Quran themselves, if they are decorated, and written in different even beautiful fonts stop trying to make uncessesary things bidah bidah bidah. there is no hadith even,

The Fatwa you quoted shares opinion of scholars that it is disliked. They didn't say its Haram. We must respect the views of Scholars and they have their reasons, whether you agree or disagree its upto you. And no ones does taqleed of the scholars you quoted.

But why is it disliked? instead of even being recommended? thats my question its not whether it is disliked it is why are these thing which i thought would be encouraged in islam an actual bad thing, i thought that instead of drawing people it was more recommended to instead create art with beautiful fonts, i mean is the scholar just saying this because he personally dislikes it? does his opinion count over the permissibility of something in islam? and what about the masjids with Allah and Muhammad signs in them , even on the Masjid an Nabawi there are the names of the 12 imams outside, why is it suddenly haram? or even disliked? to feel spiritual because you saw the name of Allah in the masjid? and let me tell you something when i type up laws for islam islamqa!!!! is what generally comes up , if i was a lay sunni ,or a even a knowledgable one, i might just go on this site and take information i mean how do i know whatever he is saying is haram or halal?i mean what is it?

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Why is islamic calligraphy not allowed?
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2016, 05:48:30 AM »
I don't think the issue is with calligraphy, It's with using the Qur'an and names of Allah as decorations.  The Qur'an is meant to be read and pondered upon, not used as a shiny ornament on the wall.  Same with the names of Allah, or Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم), we invoke Allah to seek blessings and send durood on the Prophet for the same reason.  When people hang it up for decor it's disrespectful and if you use it as a means of nearness to Allah then it's a bid'ah.

and what is wrong with the names of Allah, if looking at them even if not reading them makes you feel spirtual because you see something which reminds you of Allah SWT and who could  state this is a bidah? do you have proof from hadith forbbiding these actions? arent we as muslims supposed to feel spiritual in any ways even new ways possible? then why do mosques have these names inside.i actually thought decoration of arabic lettering was an alternative to drawings in sunni islam ,the writing of Bismillah and such after all look at the writings of the Quran themselves, if they are decorated, and written in different even beautiful fonts stop trying to make uncessesary things bidah bidah bidah. there is no hadith even,

The Fatwa you quoted shares opinion of scholars that it is disliked. They didn't say its Haram. We must respect the views of Scholars and they have their reasons, whether you agree or disagree its upto you. And no ones does taqleed of the scholars you quoted.

But why is it disliked? instead of even being recommended? thats my question its not whether it is disliked it is why are these thing which i thought would be encouraged in islam an actual bad thing, i thought that instead of drawing people it was more recommended to instead create art with beautiful fonts, i mean is the scholar just saying this because he personally dislikes it? does his opinion count over the permissibility of something in islam? and what about the masjids with Allah and Muhammad signs in them , even on the Masjid an Nabawi there are the names of the 12 imams outside, why is it suddenly haram? or even disliked? to feel spiritual because you saw the name of Allah in the masjid? and let me tell you something when i type up laws for islam islamqa!!!! is what generally comes up , if i was a lay sunni ,or a even a knowledgable one, i might just go on this site and take information i mean how do i know whatever he is saying is haram or halal?i mean what is it?
The scholars who said it is disliked, gave their reasons and those are present in the links you provided. And if you disagree with the reasons they gave, then you have the option leave their view. There are hundreds of fiqh rulings in Islam, where in difference of opinion takes place between scholars, it's not a big issue.

So, if you want to know why they said it's disliked well then you read carefully their reasoning.

As for the names of Prophet(saws) and Imams outside Masjid Nabwi, then again as i said, there is a difference of opinion between scholars. By the way, it seems you aren't aware that in the same place in Masjid Nabwi, you wiill find the names of Ashra Mubashara, and other  Sahaba as well. Infact just after Prophet(saws) you will find the name of Umar(ra).


So, know that there is no conspiracy against the names of Imams, which might come into your mind.

Sheikh

Re: Why is islamic calligraphy not allowed?
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2016, 05:49:18 PM »
Shaykh Muhammad Salih al-Munajjad, the author of the IslamQA website, is not an official government-employed scholar of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.  Ya3ni, he doesn't have a say in what the government decorates the Kaabah with.

There are many differences of opinion on the hanging of calligraphy. I would tend to think that the majority opinion is that there is no harm in hanging them as long as proper etiquette is followed, but I don't have evidence to prove that this is the majority opinion.

At the end of the day, this is a fiqh issue, not an issue of `aqeedah. As a Shia that presumably follows one of many, many maraji taqleed, you should understand that differences in opinion with regards to fiqh are not an issue.

MuslimAnswers

Re: Why is islamic calligraphy not allowed?
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2016, 11:44:30 AM »
^

This is one of the problems of Twelvers that is quite obvious (though this is a trivial example in this thread):

Rant a lot about how no one likes to accept their positions [not really true when we investigate most of their positions individually], but then basically make Takfeer or Tabdee' of whoever does not agree with them, even though technically the various issues have Ujooh (many facets), which is why the Twelvers try at the beginning to induce the majority to accept their positions as "also a valid interpretation".

sid

Re: Why is islamic calligraphy not allowed?
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2016, 04:54:11 AM »
^

This is one of the problems of Twelvers that is quite obvious (though this is a trivial example in this thread):

Rant a lot about how no one likes to accept their positions [not really true when we investigate most of their positions individually], but then basically make Takfeer or Tabdee' of whoever does not agree with them, even though technically the various issues have Ujooh (many facets), which is why the Twelvers try at the beginning to induce the majority to accept their positions as "also a valid interpretation".

im not here to say anything on anyone, except why is certain things like this haram>

Hani

Re: Why is islamic calligraphy not allowed?
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2016, 05:36:17 AM »
The fact that 90% of Calligraphy in the Islamic world was created by Sunnies and Sunni governments should be sufficient for you to realize there's absolutely no agreement on this matter.

If you dislike one opinion go for another.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

MuslimAnswers

Re: Why is islamic calligraphy not allowed?
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2016, 12:15:47 PM »
The fact that 90% of Calligraphy in the Islamic world was created by Sunnies and Sunni governments should be sufficient for you to realize there's absolutely no agreement on this matter.

If you dislike one opinion go for another.

That is the issue. About Islamic Calligraphy the argument is not that big of a deal even if almost all opinions are in favor, but then approaching a bigger question with the same mindset, like "The Religious Obligation to support Khomeinism in its fight against Wahaabis" catastrophe ensues.

sid

Re: Why is islamic calligraphy not allowed?
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2016, 09:38:03 PM »
The fact that 90% of Calligraphy in the Islamic world was created by Sunnies and Sunni governments should be sufficient for you to realize there's absolutely no agreement on this matter.

If you dislike one opinion go for another.

search it up then and see what the general consensus of this matter is ,ask your sunni scholar, is it disliked, and even if disliked why is it there, why does it add to the ambience to the mosque that must mean it is liked, that by looking at the names of Allah you feel spiritual or better or engage your self in the islamic environment, go ahead, when i searched this up most of the sunni websites were talking BOUT it being makrooh or disliked.DISLIKED??!! als take a look at this. is he a lying scholar? should i mistrust him or dismiss him .what is his credibility in the sunni world? and as a lay sunni how does one make the differentiation on which rulings or scholars to follow.

Hani

Re: Why is islamic calligraphy not allowed?
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2016, 06:14:35 AM »
To be honest with you it's a lot better if the mosques don't have calligraphy or decorations, they're fancy waste of money and distract people from worship. Instead of concentrating on your worship you marvel at the exquisite designs and shapes.

So to me, NO, calligraphy doesn't make things more godly nor do fancy chandeliers. They're a waste of Waqf money and Sadaqat. Our Prophet (saw) prayed in a simple mosque with nothing on it, not one narration records that he advised his companions to decorate it and make it pretty although that was VERY easy.

If they say it is disliked, they mean firstly because it's an innovation, secondly that it is a distraction, thirdly it is a waste of money that could be spent on the poor. However, most don't say it's Haram, so it can be done and you won't be sinful.

This major website says it's allowed and recommended to learn Arabic calligraphy if it is for a good cause, like writing beneficial books, or writing signs that are beneficial or reminders etc...
https://islamqa.info/ar/226053

As I said, there's various opinions, don't take what you dislike if you're not convinced, as long as you're not following your desires out of hypocrisy.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2016, 06:16:08 AM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

sid

Re: Why is islamic calligraphy not allowed?
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2016, 05:01:12 AM »
the thing about marjaas is that most of their answers are the same, is islamic calligraphy allowed, theyll give one answer, and when you search up shia laws, whats better than that who is the most credible.which is what comes up in google. but if i was a lay sunni, and the first thing came up was islamqa, which is exactly what you typed for another answer, how am i supposed to say oh this scholar is wrong, how do i make that definition.And other sunni sites said that it was disliked etc, having fancy decorations dont need to be there, but do we make evrything a bidah just because the sahaba didnt follow it? so your kid shouldnt post pictures of kaaba or anything else on the wall, cuz its a bidah? oh and by theway , iresearched up on mosques and guess what, the domes were built in the ottoman period, the cresent moon, same, the painting on the walls of the mosques is that also bidah? the paint on your house?

Hani

Re: Why is islamic calligraphy not allowed?
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2016, 05:03:55 PM »
Regarding how "united" your scholars are, read this:
http://twelvershia.net/2013/06/28/the-sunnah-are-divided-and-the-shia-are-united/

Second of all, you're one to talk, your scholars are split as to whether the majority of ceremonies in `Ashura' are evil innovations or an act of love and loyalty to Husayn bin `Ali.

The paint on my house isn't a Bidah. I can do whatever I want with my house including hanging pictures of Kaabah. There's nothing against decorating your house in Islam. But there are specific narrations about decorating mosques. As for the Ottomans, they had their scholars and they saw nothing wrong with it, It is their opinion.

As for how you know which scholar is right or wrong, ask for evidence, unlike Shia Fatwa websites our Fatwa sites usually include a lot of evidence and quote earlier scholars too for their stances.

Pls, if you got your answers don't bother us and waste our time in this useless Fiqhi thread.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 05:21:33 PM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

 

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