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Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Hadith-Rijal => Topic started by: Hani on September 24, 2014, 01:12:30 PM

Title: Zurarah revisited
Post by: Hani on September 24, 2014, 01:12:30 PM
Zurarah ibn A`yyan or A`yyun, one of the top companions of the Imams and an important Shi`ee narrator, a couple of things were attributed to him:


A- The Imams cursed him.


B- The Imams stated that he has corrupt beliefs such as al-Jabr and Nafi al-Istita`ah.


C- It was reported that he did not believe in the Imamah of al-Kadhim although he lived in his days.


Then on the other hand, we have a defense for him, this defense seems to be mainly coming from his relatives and children, which raises great doubts in my heart towards this "defense".


On the other hand, we find that al-Khu'i quotes this Hadith in praise of al-`Abbas (ra), and comments on it:



عن ابن عباس قال: قال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله) : من آذى العباس فقد آذاني
وهي مروية عن ابن عباس ، وكيف يمكن الاعتماد على مثل ذلك


[Ibn `Abbas said: The Prophet (saw) said: "Whoever hurts al-`Abbas has hurt me." This was narrated from ibn `Abbas, so how can we rely on such a thing!?]


I say: How can you rely on the narrations of the son of a cursed man?


Our question is, has been established from other authentic chains, not containing sons of Zurarah or relatives of his, that the curses weren't serious but only out of Taqiyyah?

Secondly, if we were to accept that there are authentic narrations where the Imam cursed him out of Taqiyyah, so that he won't get him into trouble with "the enemies of Ahlul-Bayt", how can we reconcile this with the content of the narrations in which the Imam curses him?


Let me clarify, for example in one narration some Shia come to the Imam and ask him regarding the authenticity of what Zurarah attributed to him concerning matter related to Istita`ah and Hajj, the Imam accuses Zurarah of lying and denies this belief, after this in the same narration Zurarah insults the Imam by accusing him of ignorance.


Zurarah is said to even have a book on Istita`ah and kept this belief until his death, and the brother Asad posted more here in Arabic:
http://www.dd-sunnah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=173379
Title: Re: Zurarah revisited
Post by: Nader Zaveri on September 24, 2014, 04:58:55 PM
Assalaamu `Alaykum Brother Hani
On the other hand, we find that al-Khu'i quotes this Hadith in praise of al-`Abbas (ra), and comments on it:

عن ابن عباس قال: قال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله) : من آذى العباس فقد آذاني
وهي مروية عن ابن عباس ، وكيف يمكن الاعتماد على مثل ذلك

[Ibn `Abbas said: The Prophet (saw) said: "Whoever hurts al-`Abbas has hurt me." This was narrated from ibn `Abbas, so how can we rely on such a thing!?]

I say: How can you rely on the narrations of the son of a cursed man?
I believe you may be taking al-Khoei's statements out of context. Here is al-Khoei's full statement.



ومنها: ما في أمالي الشيخ أبي علي الطوسي، عن أبيه، قال: حدثنا أبو عمر، قال: حدثنا أحمد، قال: حدثنا أحمد، عن ابن عباس، قال: قال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله): من آذى العباس فقد آذاني (الجزء الأول: صفحة 280).
أقول: أبو عمر، هو عبد الواحد بن محمد بن عبد الله بن محمد بن مهدي،
وأحمد الأول هو أبو العباس أحمد بن محمد بن سعيد بن عقدة، وأحمد الثاني هو
أحمد بن يحيى (كما صرح بذلك في صفحة 252، من الجزء الأول)، عبد الواحد
أبو عمر، وأحمد بن يحيى، كلاهما مجهول، على أن الرواية مرسلة، وهي مروية
عن ابن عباس، وكيف يمكن الاعتماد على مثل ذلك.

From it: What is in Amali of al-Shaykh Abu `Ali al-Tusi from his father, He said: 'Abu `Amr narrated to us, He said: Ahmad narrated to us, He said: Ahmad narrated to us from Ibn `Abbas said, the Messenger of Allah (SAWAS) said: 'Whoever hurts al-`Abbas has hurt me" (Vol. 1, pg. 280)

I say: 'Abu `Amr is `Abd al-Waahid b. Muhammad b. `Abd Allah b. Muhammad b. Mahdi

And the First Ahmad is Abu al-`Abbas Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Sa`eed b. `Uqdah

And the second Ahmad is Ahmad b. Yahya (like what is stated of that in page 252 from vol. 1).

`Abd al-Wahid Abu `Amr and Ahmad b. Yahya, both of them are Majhul, upon that the narration is Mursal, and it is narrated from Ibn `Abbas, so how can we rely on such as thing?!



Taken the whole context of his statement, it seems like al-Khoei's statement is in regards to the whole chain (2 majhul narrators, mursal, and the son narrating it). It isn't from the principles of al-Khoei for him to solely weaken a narration simply because a son or family member, who is Thiqah, is narrated a hadith in praise of his father or family member.

Wallaahu A`lim.

Wa `Alaykum Assalaam
Title: Re: Zurarah revisited
Post by: Hani on September 24, 2014, 06:35:46 PM
That's what I get for copying from an internet forum hehe...


What about the main topic though? Doesn't seem from the Matn that the cursing was "out of Taqiyyah" nor does it seem like anyone other than Zurarah's family narrated this praise.
Title: Re: Zurarah revisited
Post by: Nader Zaveri on September 24, 2014, 07:08:41 PM
Assalaamu `Alaykum,

I cannot give a blanket statement outright about all the matns that Zuraarah is cursed. I do have my own theory on how some of these cursings came about. We must first admit that many of the companions of our A'immah had different views, sometimes they were in Fiqhi matters (i.e. Salat timings, eating the meat from a Jew of Christian, etc.), while other times they were in `Aqeedah matters (Istita'ah, etc.). Those major companions became scholars in their own right. That is why you see in some books of Firaq, there are sects (or, madhhabs) being names after major companions. If another companion disagreed with that major scholar, they could've fabricated a hadith attributed it to one of the A'immah claiming that they (the A'immah) cursed so and so. Those cursing narrations could be a byproduct of the harsh attitudes between the companions/scholars. Kind of like how in Sunni Islam, harsh things were thrown around between scholars in rivaling madhhabs.

Most Shee`ahs won't accept that because they don't want to admit that major companions had differing viewpoints that opposed the A'immah's rulings. Because if that is established, then they must admit that some of those early companions didn't believe in the `Ismah of the A'immah.

Wa `Alaykum Assalam
Title: Re: Zurarah revisited
Post by: Hani on September 24, 2014, 07:16:53 PM
Barak-Allahu Feek,


Finally someone gives us an answer to this! And yes this is apparent in Shia Ahadeeth that different leaders attributed different narrations to the Imams which criticize other Shia leaders out of jealousy and to spread their Madhab and power.

However, IF it is true that some companions of the Imams that were jealous of Zurarah, and so they attributed some curses from the Imams towards him, why then does it reach us through Zurarah's children that the Imam only cursed him "outwardly" while he praised him "inwardly"?