12th Imam Rep

[Hadrami]

Have a look at this funny story from http://www.al-islam.org/special-deputies-association-imam-al-mahdi/first-deputy-hazrat-%E2%80%98uthman-b-sa%E2%80%99eed-al-amri-ra

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Shaikh Mufid (r.a.) writes in his book ‘Kitabul Irshad’: ‘After the martyrdom of Imam Hasan al-Askari (a.s.) when Ja’far b. Ali Naqi saw that their Imam (a.s.) did not have a successor, he usurped his (a.s.) property, imprisoned his (a.s.) maids and the women of the household and said evil things about his (a.s.) companions who were steadfast in their faith that Imam (a.s.) had a son and were waiting for his reappearance. He threatened them but they did not pay attention to him.

Ja'far knew his brother did not have a son & those who claimed otherwise would be liars or being fooled at. If Ja'far said "evil" things about shias then Ali RA & other imam also cursed those who claim to be their shias many times for being the worst of people, liars even heretics. Ja'far is just continuing the Ahlulbait's tradition of cursing their fake followers aka shias

Finally, Ja’far approached the Caliph of the time and sought his assistance to claim the position of his brother (Imam Hasan al-Askari (a.s.)). He paid a huge amount to the government by way of bribe, but failed miserably in his evil plans.’11

So the caliph saw Hasan al-Askari's position as a threat & a challenge to his authority, killed him, but then his brother went to that caliph asking for the position which shia said caused his brother killed in the first place? Nice. Also how can you bribe a caliph anyway?

Hazrat ‘Uthman b. Sa’eed (r.a.) had to face the uphill task of Ja’far’s claim of Imamat, his standing to lead the funeral prayers of Imam (a.s.) and creating doubts about the Imamat of Imam az-Zaman (a.t.f.s.).

Of course it would be an uphill task to lie about something like that. Ja'far was not the only one who knew uthman was a liar & Hasan had no son. The majority of Shia sects also opposed & doubted Uthman's claim (http://forum.twelvershia.net/imamah-ghaybah/shia-after-11th-imam's-death/).

When the Shias heard of Ja’far’s claim and his usurping Imam’s (a.s.) property and seeking help from Bani Abbas, some of them consulted Hazrat ‘Uthman b. Sa’eed (r.a.) and requested for a ‘Tawqee’ from Imam az-Zaman (a.t.f.s.) to clarify the matter and remove all suspicion and doubts once and for all. Our readers should find the following incident very interesting.

Ahmad b. Ishaaq wrote a letter to Imam az-Zaman (a.t.f.s.) enclosing Ja’far’s letter. He gave it to ‘Uthman b. Sa’eed (a.s.) to be forwarded to Imam az-Zaman (a.t.f.s.). Imam (a.t.f.s.) gave a very strong-worded reply and refuted the Imamat of Ja’far. Following is the extract of Imam’s (a.t.f.s.) letter:

‘This defrauder (Ja’far) has falsified Allah and has claimed Imamat. We do not know on what basis he has made such a claim. If he claims knowledge in the Ahkam and Fiqh of Allah’s religion, then by Allah, he is not able to distinguish between the permissible and the prohibited. He cannot distinguish between the clear and ambiguous verses of the Holy Quran.

So when Uthman bin Said's khums collection activities was in trouble due to Ja'far's testimony, he then brought a letter which he claimed was written by Mahdi condemning Ja'far. A letter which can be written by anyone or himself. Nice move to save the "khums enterprise" there.

After the martyrdom of Imam Hasan al-Askari (a.s.), the first representative of Imam az-Zaman (a.t.f.s.) came to Baghdad from Samarrah on the order of Imam (a.s.). The reason being that the government vigilance and control in Samarrah was very strict and it had relatively ignored Baghdad. Samarrah was the capital of the Abbasi government.

or maybe Uthman left, because he realised most people including majority of shia back then believed he was a liar?

What you will notice, the story of this deputy & St Paul are similar:
- both of them worked for the opponents (shia deputy supply army & Paul was member of forces which persecuted jesus followers)
- both of them claimed something which only them can proof (shia deputy said letters were written by imam & paul said he met jesus on his way to damascus which made him repented)
- both of them claim to be commanded to be their representatives
- the companion & original followers of jesus had issue with paul & the family of 11th imam had issue with uthman bin said

[Hani]

great find, might post this on the site.

[zaid_ibn_ali]

Exposing the fabricated story of the birth of the 12th Imam & the associated lying 'deputies' should be an important topic. Shia constantly criticize the sahaba, through whom their (shia) lands were conquered from disbelief to Islam. Compare the sahaba to the so called deputies/companions of the last 'shia Imam'. These deputies were nothing but Liars, thiefs & frauds. So when shia criticise the sahaba for minor issues ask them to resolve the issue of their own 'sahaba/deputies of their hidden Imam'.

[MuslimK]

interesting

[Hadrami]

just revisiting funny shia story from "respected" shia website 😆

[zaid_ibn_ali]

Where is iceman, whoaretheshia, zlatan etc?
Not one shia reply here!

[Hadrami]

Where is iceman, whoaretheshia, zlatan etc?
Not one shia reply here!

maybe they themselves find this "respected" shia website's article is BS? Bribe caliph to be imam? Never heard someone would bribe a "billionare" to get himself killed. Only in shia's bollywood history 😂😂

[zaid_ibn_ali]

I find this topic to be one of the biggest & embarrassing exposures of the 12er sect.
It does not surprise me that not even one of the shia on here have commented.
There is no way to defend this fraud exposing the foundations of the 12er sect.

[zaid_ibn_ali]

Bumping for iceman, whoaretheshia, zlatan???

[Hadrami]

dont worry, they themselves knows that shia website's article is full of BS 😂

[zaid_ibn_ali]

Its not just about the article on the shia website. Its in the shoa books. Its their history, their beliefs.
Those so called 4 representatives of the ‘hidden Imam’ were clearly blatant frauds & thieves. Anyone with a sane mind can see.
The shia are so embarrassed & scared to comment here!

[iceman]

Its not just about the article on the shia website. Its in the shoa books. Its their history, their beliefs.
Those so called 4 representatives of the ‘hidden Imam’ were clearly blatant frauds & thieves. Anyone with a sane mind can see.
The shia are so embarrassed & scared to comment here!

No one is scared. Especially not from a handful of Anti Shia Propagandists. You can't promote and spread your own faith and are ashamed of the origin and foundation of your own belief. This is why you indulge in this propaganda so you can keep yourself busy and people away from getting to know the reality of your own belief.

[iceman]

You also believe in the coming of Mahdi but are too afraid to discuss in how you believe in his coming. What is the need for a saviour to come when majority of the Muslims are Suni and on haq?

Mahdi is going to free this world from injustice and tyranny but where does this injustice and tyranny come from? Your beloved Caliphate brought injustice and tyranny.

How many Muslim countries do we have and how do you classify their rulers? Rather than looking for any silly excuse you can find engage in a proper discussion. Tell me exactly your version and belief in Mahdi. I will ask you questions and make run left, right and centre.

Let me begin. Sunis believe in the coming of Mahdi. Who is this Mahdi and what will his position and status be? What is the need for him when majority of the Muslims are Ahle Sunah, Suni and are on the true path? Is Mahdi going to appear to get rid of the minority, Shia etc?

Mahdi is going to take on injustice and tyranny. Hang on a minute, vast majority of Muslim country rulers are Suni, so who will these tyrants be that Mahdi will get rid of? What, are Shias all of a sudden going to become majority and popular?

Come on people, start answering or start running.

[iceman]

Exposing the fabricated story of the birth of the 12th Imam & the associated lying 'deputies' should be an important topic. Shia constantly criticize the sahaba, through whom their (shia) lands were conquered from disbelief to Islam. Compare the sahaba to the so called deputies/companions of the last 'shia Imam'. These deputies were nothing but Liars, thiefs & frauds. So when shia criticise the sahaba for minor issues ask them to resolve the issue of their own 'sahaba/deputies of their hidden Imam'.

😊 We do not criticise or condemn the Sahaba, we criticise and condemn the rulers after Muhammad who used means of violence and threatening behaviour on the Ummah. For you Sahaba ate just a handful. I don't see you discussing and praising  companions when they were in huge numbers. Miqdad, Salman, Abu Zarr etc why do these names send a shiver down your spine?

[zaid_ibn_ali]

@iceman
Stop trying to distract peoole from the topic.

Topic is 12th Imam rep i.e the four conmen.

Explain these 4 conmen please.

[zaid_ibn_ali]

Bumping for zlatan & iceman😁

[Zlatan Ibrahimovic]

Bumping for zlatan & iceman😁

Lol. What do you want me to say? A lot of what is in the books of history is false and a lot of what is said in the mimbar is false and are just tales.

If a story makes no sense, why should I hang onto it? Denial of this story has no affect on aqeeda or core values and principles in tashayyu. I didn't even try to reconcile the story, because I don't see it as important to my faith.

[zaid_ibn_ali]

Lol. What do you want me to say? A lot of what is in the books of history is false and a lot of what is said in the mimbar is false and are just tales.

If a story makes no sense, why should I hang onto it? Denial of this story has no affect on aqeeda or core values and principles in tashayyu. I didn't even try to reconcile the story, because I don't see it as important to my faith.

These 4 guys were the chosen disciples of your final 12th Imam, the Imam of the age.

The fact that you are laughing it off as fairytales is no joke. I agree its all fairytales. But these are your sects most important men during the period of the minor occultation.

But thanks for acknowledging it as fairytales.

The contradiction is you ackowlegding it & still following the lie that these guys were the centre of.

At least you acknowledged it unlike iceman who is running scared from this thread.

[Zlatan Ibrahimovic]

These 4 guys were the chosen disciples of your final 12th Imam, the Imam of the age.

The fact that you are laughing it off as fairytales is no joke. I agree its all fairytales. But these are your sects most important men during the period of the minor occultation.

But thanks for acknowledging it as fairytales.

The contradiction is you ackowlegding it & still following the lie that these guys were the centre of.

At least you acknowledged it unlike iceman who is running scared from this thread.

That's not what I meant but oh well. The whole Ja'far thing never clicked in with me, the sufarah are fine.

I doubt he is running away, I was away for a long time and I stumbled upon this. I am sure he hasn't seen this yet.

[zaid_ibn_ali]

That's not what I meant but oh well. The whole Ja'far thing never clicked in with me, the sufarah are fine.

I doubt he is running away, I was away for a long time and I stumbled upon this. I am sure he hasn't seen this yet.

The implications are much bigger than you are making out to be. You can’t just brush it aside as if its a minor thing.
You’ve admitted the shia narrative of Jafar doesn’t click with you. The family of Hasan Al Askari denied the existence of your 12th Imam being born.
The four conmen with some right comedic stories totally played a tale on the ignorant shia by fooling them with silly fake letters.

As for iceman, he is definately aware of this thread. He just doesn’t want to discuss as this is a subject no shia can explain in a sane manner in this day & age.

It opens up the core of the twelver sects development. Conmen who faked letters, fooled the ignorant shia to accept their silly fairytales & pursuading them to revile al askari’s family & then the conmen & liars of qum who carried on these lies that formed the backbone of twelver sect literature.