Abstract religion vs Hard instance of it

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Abstract religion vs Hard instance of it
« on: June 25, 2022, 08:38:50 PM »
Those with comp sci or programming with obj oriented probably know what I mean.

But I'll give an example. A bike can have blue, red, black, etc, and different types.

When it comes to real world, the work bike contains all these ideas and we don't even know all potential ideas of bike, but we have a general abstract idea.

Now when it comes to religion. There is two ways to go about.

(1) Argue or provide proof for the abstract version of it.
(2) Argue or provide proof for the hard version of it.

To give a difference. For example, the verse Mohammad (s) is the Seal/Final End to Anbiya (a), is a particular argument from the hard version about the hard version.

This is why it only appears once with some other verses with it implied.

However, we see Quran argues for abstract version of it in many places. In fact, Mohammad (s) name only appears four times in Quran and Ahmad (which explains his name too and is what he is called by Angels) only once.

So the emphasis on particularly Mohammad (s) is there, but in what way? It's arguing the book reveals truth by truth and that Mohammad (s) in particular Nubuwa can't be fabricated with the truth from God.

Some of this is eloquence, beauty of words, but this is all there is to the "truth" of Quran? Of course not.

One of these it's explanation of abstract religion. For example, after 42:23, which is saying the reward accusation in from perspective he is false, is nothing really at the end, but one thing if true: love of the kinsfolk, but the word Qurba is used, much like how "fellowship of the ring" is used, where as everywhere else qurba is usually in Dul or Ulul, which means, beside Rasool (Messenger), it's the near kin of the Messenger, or those who possess the kinship (to the Messenger).

Here because it includes Mohammad (s) as he can't exclude himself in the accusation of reward, it took on this form.

But read the verse right after, "Or do they say he has forged it, then if God wishes (in this case) he can seal your heart and he verifies the truth with his words and annuls the falsehood...", the hadiths emphasize in this flow and context, words here is Imams (a), but the context of the verse is saying if not Mohammad (s) and his family (a), then say they are forgers, in this case, he can seal their hearts (make them blind to the hearing and higher glory of God and the high council heaven reality) if they were forgers and they would be from the hearing far removed, and yet God is the one who verifies the truth with his words like Jesus, like Moses, like Aaron, etc.

And this is found through out Quran, if not Mohammad (s), still, upon God is the guidance. But it argues it in a way that, those realize the truth of the abstract religion would find the hard instance of it.

In this regard, there is a hadith "God has made his religion into one person, so whoever recognize this person, has recognized the religion" in explaining why there is always a leader in all times who is the light of the world and why we have to recognize the Imam of our time.

The reminder in Surah Taha is said to by Imam Ali (a) to be his Mastership and his authority.

But the reminder in theory and abstract is no one in particular. This is why its the book, but Quran is that book, Ahlulbayt that living understanding and light of Quran, but the new reminder (Quran) is the instance of it, but in theory, there always is a reminder.

So the Quran for example though Mohammad (s) has highest certainty and doesn't doubt, says "if you are in doubt ask those who recite the book before you", another verse says "ask the Messengers sent before you, did we ever put a god to be worshiped with God?" and another verse says "We did not send before you (singular) except men who we revealed to therefore ask (plural) the family of the reminder if you do not know".

This is stated in a way, if Mohammad (s) was God forbid ignorant and lost and didn't know the guidance and truth, to seek the family of the reminder. The first part is singular, the ask is plural, saying, he is saying, let's say he is possessed and a sorcerer like they are accusing or gone crazy or demons control him, what should he do? He is told to ask the family of the reminder in this case. But everyone (humanity) is addressed in this, and so it's saying to all of humanity, if you don't know an issue of guidance as some accuse Mohammad (s) of being possessed with demons tricking him, it's upon you to seek the family of the reminder.

The family of the reminder, even though, Mohammad (S) is the living reminder at that time and Quran is that new reminder, coupled with him and they are one, it says it an way that there is always a reminder (living understanding of the book and written book, book calls to the light of the perfect leader and the perfect leaders guide by the book and are one reminder).

In Surah Nahl, it flows with seeking signs of God and knowledge about God's signs in creation, as well, with the verses after and the one before, it's clear part of relying on God is to seek the family of the reminder for clarification of Quran like Mohammad (S) was sent to clarify the Quran.

In Surah Anbiya, this emphasized later in the chapter with family of Ibrahim being an instance of the past and they being Imams who guide by God's command, but the start is emphasizing that the disbelievers were asking for miracles or signs like previous Messengers. After being warned many been shown and disbelieved, and (most likely) they will disbelieve being not better then these people... it then emphasizes in flow to that to go ahead and ask the family of the reminder if you don't know, which shows, that seeking miracles and signs from them is included in things we should and are allowed to ask from them. Of course, we can rebel and reject miracles as acts of sorcery, but still says go ahead and ask the family of the reminder.

And so Elyas is highly important in the two places he is mentioned, but if it was not Elyas, it would be someone else.

If not Musa in the past (particular), someone else. Haroun important relationship to Musa to prove context of successorship and wisdom of unleashing knowledge in stages to humans because of the ignorance of people, but if not Haroun, some one else.

Musa's and Haroun's family was the family of the reminder, also called in Quran family of Imran (who is a later successor of them), and family of Dawood (which solves the contradiction of Isa and Aaronic line and David line being different), but if it wasn't these particular holy exalted souls as a family in the sky providing light to Angels and to humans, if it wasn't them holding the position of the holy spirit and reminder and light of God, some other people would've on earth.

Of course, Quran is saying these are all examples of chosen guidance from him.

Anyways, in Quran aside from "family" concept that is chosen, it also, emphasizes there is a particular consistent number in all times which is that with every Captain from God, there exists with him Twelve other Captains, and this is true of luminaries in all times, there is always with whatever generic luminary, twelve. Every founder has thus twelve successors.

Now this is getting closer to particular. But we can make arguments in abstract way. God will have a constant number in all times for all houses chosen by him for various reasons.

One of these reasons is to use the family of the past as a model of what the current people with the current family of the reminder as similarly tried with and that everyone needs if the guides are no longer in the open, to know the exact number. It makes more sense to model it that, every generic founder has Twelve Successors.

Now why not 15, 17, 18, this also can have abstract arguments for it. Why Twelve can have arguments.

What I'm saying is, people get bogged down on making it personal with Mohammad (S) while Quran says "And we know you are grieved by what they say for the they do not (in reality) deny (just) you, but rather the wicked reject the signs of God".

Angels and belief in them is part of belief in abstract religion. Gabriel and Michael on top, the latter responsible for Ar-Rahman title of God and the former for Ar-Raheem and they obviously work together as well, where there is overlap. But Gabriel and Michael are not necessary for belief in Angels except that the hard instance of religion has them as hard instances of the top Angels.

Belief in books of God through channelers of it (Nubuwa), and belief in Messengers who convey the truth and wisdom, and belief in leaders who bring people to God on the journey, and belief in divinely appointed kings who are needed for the world to become a just society and justice to be implemented, all this can be argued in abstract way.

Then in abstract way, the features of the book of God can be argued such that, it would be above human capability, superior in guidance, mysterious in the way it guides, clear in wisdom and proofs and signs, beauty of it linguistically with nothing on par, all of it calculated perfect and the words all of them perfectly placed and said in the way they are, etc.

Then we can search for book potentials, and compare what is the true hard instance of it.

It's subtle signs may never have an end. We can't write a book with infinite doors opening up infinite doors of knowledge, facts, wisdom, guidance, but God can.

And the way Quran opens up new Qurans, and those new Qurans open up new Qurans, to the pious, and knowledge increasing and amplify this effect, and the Quran never getting old and always renewing with a much higher exalted nature, with it's clear signs from the origin of the book which is in God's knowledge alone, and all of it's interpretation appears clear in the hearts of those with knowledge (Ahlulbayt) who know how to compliment it, manifest its mysteries in a clear manner, bring out the clear signs recitation, and annul the dark locks on it, and renew the Quran to a new book and new level depending our capacity, and it's holistic approach to all it's topics, is no doubt, to me, proof it's from God.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2022, 08:40:09 PM by Soccer »
By the name of God, the (universally) Compassionate, The (extremely) Compassionate; for the unity of the Togetherness; Is their unity in the travels in the winter and summer. So let them Worship the Lord of this household. The one who fed them from hunger and gave them security from fear.


Re: Abstract religion vs Hard instance of it
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2022, 09:23:56 PM »
Imam Mahdi's (a) guidance:

First, personal can't be proven. So only liars (because Quran says proof is always needed) will testify to themselves constantly being guided by Imam Mahdi whether at spiritual level of unseen light or he meeting them to public, although some might not be able to keep it away from family or wife or close friends. No one will claim this in public but a liar.

However, according to Du'a and hadiths and Quran, believers (not saying I am one of them) can have one or all of these or some:

(1) The light of the Imam is the light. The Quran talks about Mohammad (S) connecting people and being a rope between heaven and earth and so do hadiths and prayers taught by Ahlulbayt (A) emphasize about Imam of time being that. And Sahefa Sajjadiya emphasizes the Imam of time is Baha'al Alimeen (The glamour/glory of the world).

(2) Him meeting/talking to you which we see in Du'a Nudba we see is it possible that we find a way to meet and so if this happens, he might be giving you warnings where you are at if you are falling into darkness and moving to disbelief or using you if you are luminous in heart and firm, he can give you commands. Interpreting some of Quran where you are blind to aspects of it, that he wishes to open up. This can be short meeting one day followed up by longer ones for example.

(3) He has close followers and friends, who he sends and commands constantly in unseen and seen, meets them in world also they are connected to his light, not all people can be this, but we can hope and strive for it.

(4) He can show you miracles and signs of this nature.

(5) Fights on behalf of you and carries you against the dark magic and protects you constantly with his powers from Satanic magic and Iblis forces from Jinn and humans.

(6) Covers you with light that protects you and is a barrier against Iblis

(7) Provide constant help if you in darkness and tries to shed light and pull you back to God and he too whispers to your heart like Iblis whispers through his minions.

(8) Send some of his closest friends and helpers to assist a believer

(9) Has non-Muslim (officially) doing Taqiya in important places in the world while they hide their faith and don't outwardly show it, they are of the highest believers (some of them)

(10) Sword of God to be picked up, held on to you, inwardly, and used to fight for soul against dark magic and sorcerers and evil leading astray jinn attacking a believer.

(11) Connect you to his family (Mohammad, Ali, Fatima, etc) as he provides link to heaven and earth as a rope.

(12) Teach you powers and bestow you them, including talking to dead, traveling/warping on earth to where you want, and other powers if he sees you are fit and won't cause you disbelief and be arrogant and rebel, thereby not only losing your power and connection to Imam, but rebelling against him with Devils accusing him as sorcerer.

(13) Explain through friends of his on how we should politically act

(14) Give you directions to fulfill whether whispering or meeting you, in God's plan,, or a mix of these and for you to be part of the Laylatal Qadr plans of God from now on.

There's more, I hope these are enough.
By the name of God, the (universally) Compassionate, The (extremely) Compassionate; for the unity of the Togetherness; Is their unity in the travels in the winter and summer. So let them Worship the Lord of this household. The one who fed them from hunger and gave them security from fear.


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