Challenge to Sunnis: Ghayba of Ibn Mariam عليهما السلام

[ZulFiqar]

We have proven this from sources which are Hujjah upon Ahlesunnah. Like Hadeeth of Ibn Abbas(ra) about his ascend and the marfoo hadeeth about his descend which clearly shows that Isa(as) will descend with a physical body, like I explained in previous post.

This Hadeeth is authentic and its mentioning the news about Ghayb, hence Ibn Abbas(ra) must have received this knews from Prophet(saws)

If you say that the Athar of a Sahabi is a proof in the Religion, especially if it is concerning something from the Unseen meaning he could not have come up with such a belief except that he acquired it from the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم. Firstly, it is known that the Sahaba narrated many beliefs and doctrines of matters from the unseen due to their being influenced by the Jews and Christians around them. Which is why they, despite being Sahaba, would acquire knowledge from non-Sahaba like Ka'b al-Ahbar رضى الله عنه and others.

This is the same Ibn Abbas رضى الله عنه who said in explaining the Verse: "Allah is the One who created the Seven Heavens and of the Earth a similar (number)"

سَبْعَ أَرْضِينَ ، فِي كُلِّ أَرْضٍ نَبِيٌّ كَنَبِيِّكُمْ ، وَآدَمُ كَآدَمَ ، وَنُوحٌ كَنُوحٍ ، وَإِبْرَاهِيمُ كَإِبْرَاهِيمَ ، وَعِيسَى كَعِيسَى
"In the Seven Earths, in every Earth there is a Nabi like your Nabi, an Adam like your Adam, a Noah like your Noah, an Abraham like your Abraham, and a Jesus like your Jesus."

The question is will any Muslim adapt this belief simply because Ibn Abbas said it and it is something from the matter of the unseen? Are you prepared to believe that there are 6 other Prophet Muhammads like our Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم without any evidence of that from the Quran and Ahadith an Nabawi?

I meant whose "Nutfah", the Nutfah decides who is your biological mother and father. Every person is born from the nutfah of their biological mother and father. Ibn Taymiyyah was born was from the nutfah of his biological mother and father- Abdal Haleem, etc. So I asked the question in this sense.

First you referred to Nutfah as meaning male sperm, now you are talking about the Nutfah of a biological mother? Did not Eisa عليه السلام have a biological mother?

But the meaning of the Ayah is that Insan is created from the Nutfah of Adam. That is the Nutfah through which all humanity originated including sayyidina Isa عليه السلام

The stories about Jesus ascending through the roof of a house etc. are all fables that come from the Israaeeliyyat. In fact they are self-contradictory, some of them say that a disciple of Jesus was made to appear like Jesus who was crucified in his place, and others say that an enemy of Jesus was made to appear in his image and crucified instead of Jesus. There are all kinds of wild theories. Allah says that all of it is الظَّنِّ (conjecture - Sura 4:157)

Any Muslim who is blessed with wisdom knows the fact that, Angels descend from heaven. And per Marfoo ahadeeth, Isa(As) will descend keeping hands on the wings of Angels.

Nuzul (descent) does not always mean in the sense of coming down from Heaven. Allah says He sent down 8 pairs of cattle وَأَنزَلَ لَكُم مِّنَ الْأَنْعَامِ ثَمَانِيَةَ أَزْوَاجٍ did these 8 pairs of cattle come down from the sky? Coming with two Angels is not exclusive to Jesus, even our Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم was accompanied by 2 Angels (Gabriel and Michael). Sometimes they were visible to the Sahaba, like during the Battle of Badr:
Sa`d reported that on the Day of Uhud I saw on the right side of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and on his left side two persons dressed in white clothes and whom I did not see before nor after that, and they were Gabriel and Michael peace be upon them both (Sahih Muslim)
قَالَ خَرَجَ عَلَيْنَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَوْمًا فَقَالَ ‏ "‏ إِنِّي رَأَيْتُ فِي الْمَنَامِ كَأَنَّ جِبْرِيلَ عِنْدَ رَأْسِي وَمِيكَائِيلَ عِنْدَ رِجْلَىَّ
The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said that he saw in a dream that Gabriel is at his head and Michael is at at his foot (Tirmidhi)

[Abu Muhammad]

I am not questioning the howness or modality of something that is unseen, I am disputing your belief to be true that Jesus is alive in the Heavens with his earthen body, because such a belief doesn't have any proof from the Quran.

Really? How about this…

وَقُلْنَا يَا آدَمُ اسْكُنْ أَنْتَ وَزَوْجُكَ الْجَنَّةَ وَكُلَا مِنْهَا رَغَدًا حَيْثُ شِئْتُمَا وَلَا تَقْرَبَا هَٰذِهِ الشَّجَرَةَ فَتَكُونَا مِنَ الظَّالِمِينَ

(Sahih International)
And We said, "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat therefrom in [ease and] abundance from wherever you will. But do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."

-Sura Al-Baqarah, Ayah 35

Were Adam and Hawa living in their ruh in jannah?

[ZulFiqar]

Really? How about this…

وَقُلْنَا يَا آدَمُ اسْكُنْ أَنْتَ وَزَوْجُكَ الْجَنَّةَ وَكُلَا مِنْهَا رَغَدًا حَيْثُ شِئْتُمَا وَلَا تَقْرَبَا هَٰذِهِ الشَّجَرَةَ فَتَكُونَا مِنَ الظَّالِمِينَ

(Sahih International)
And We said, "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat therefrom in [ease and] abundance from wherever you will. But do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."

-Sura Al-Baqarah, Ayah 35

Were Adam and Hawa living in their ruh in jannah?

Which Jannah was it? There is ikhtilaaf here too. Even if we suppose it was the Jannah of the Akhirah you have couple of problems which have to be resolved:

1. When someone is in Jannah of Akhira can they be expelled or leave?
وَمَا هُم مِّنْهَا بِمُخْرَجِينَ
Nor will they be expelled from it (Sura 15:48)

2. Has any human being seen the Jannah of Akhira?
فَلَا تَعْلَمُ نَفْسٌ مَّا أُخْفِيَ لَهُم مِّن قُرَّةِ أَعْيُنٍ جَزَاءً بِمَا كَانُوا يَعْمَلُونَ
And no soul knows what has been hidden from them of comfort for eyes as reward for what they used to do (Sura 32:17)
Allah says: ‘I have prepared for My righteous slaves that which no eye has seen, no ear has heard and it has never crossed the mind of man. All of that is reserved, besides which all that you have known is as nothing." (Hadith Qudsi)

3. Can any human being enter the Jannah in his body without tasting death or being resurrected first?

4. If Adam and Hawwa were expelled from the Jannah of Akhirah, is it possible anyone can enter back into it before Qiyamah without tasting death?

5. Is there any tree in the Jannah of Akhira that is forbidden to be approached? ِAllah says that in the Jannah of Akhira the Believers will have access to every kind of fruit وَلَهُمْ فِيهَا مِن كُلِّ الثَّمَرَاتِ (Sura 47:15)

Does it make sense to believe that sayyidina Eisa عليه السلام is right now in the Jannah of Akhira, enjoying its delights, but he is still in his earthly Jasad (body) which is a restricted body. If this earthen body was sufficient to enjoy the delights of Jannah what is the purpose of Qiyama when we are raised up in a different body so we can experience the delights of Jannah?

[Abu Muhammad]

Which Jannah was it? There is ikhtilaaf here too. Even if we suppose it was the Jannah of the Akhirah you have couple of problems which have to be resolved:

1. When someone is in Jannah of Akhira can they be expelled or leave?
وَمَا هُم مِّنْهَا بِمُخْرَجِينَ
Nor will they be expelled from it (Sura 15:48)

2. Has any human being seen the Jannah of Akhira?
فَلَا تَعْلَمُ نَفْسٌ مَّا أُخْفِيَ لَهُم مِّن قُرَّةِ أَعْيُنٍ جَزَاءً بِمَا كَانُوا يَعْمَلُونَ
And no soul knows what has been hidden from them of comfort for eyes as reward for what they used to do (Sura 32:17)
Allah says: ‘I have prepared for My righteous slaves that which no eye has seen, no ear has heard and it has never crossed the mind of man. All of that is reserved, besides which all that you have known is as nothing." (Hadith Qudsi)

3. Can any human being enter the Jannah in his body without tasting death or being resurrected first?

4. If Adam and Hawwa were expelled from the Jannah of Akhirah, is it possible anyone can enter back into it before Qiyamah without tasting death?

5. Is there any tree in the Jannah of Akhira that is forbidden to be approached? ِAllah says that in the Jannah of Akhira the Believers will have access to every kind of fruit وَلَهُمْ فِيهَا مِن كُلِّ الثَّمَرَاتِ (Sura 47:15)

Does it make sense to believe that sayyidina Eisa عليه السلام is right now in the Jannah of Akhira, enjoying its delights, but he is still in his earthly Jasad (body) which is a restricted body. If this earthen body was sufficient to enjoy the delights of Jannah what is the purpose of Qiyama when we are raised up in a different body so we can experience the delights of Jannah?

Good. If going by your argument, that means there is a "jannah" that persons with earthly bodies could live and eat without any issues as proven in the case of Adam & Hawa (as).

Could Isa (as) be possibly taken up this kind of "jannah"? If yes, all your previous arguments with regard to earthly bodies living in jannah were void and invalid.

[ZulFiqar]

Good. If going by your argument, that means there is a "jannah" that persons with earthly bodies could live and eat without any issues as proven in the case of Adam & Hawa (as).

Could Isa (as) be possibly taken up this kind of "jannah"? If yes, all your previous arguments with regard to earthly bodies living in jannah were void and invalid.

This Jannah is not in the Heavens. It was the Jannah that was on this planet.

[Abu Muhammad]

This Jannah is not in the Heavens. It was the Jannah that was on this planet.

I can pretty much see where you are heading to with that statement.

By the way, being this forum is Sunni/Twelvers polemical discussion, I still cannot see how does your argument about Isa's (as) ghaybah could practically give a "catasthropic" blow to Twelvers argument of their Mahdi's ghaybah, as you claimed. Seriously. They could always, among other arguments, comeback saying there will always be 2 opinions in Sunnis and you cannot, practically speaking, eliminate that. And as I said previously, they could easily accuse us of pick-and-choose what suits us.

You know what, the main thing that you could achieve here is actually challenging the prominent Sunni believe itself with regard to Isa's (as) ghaybah! Not so much on Twelvers!

As for me, ghaybah of Isa (as) or not, it doesn't really have a hugh impact on me, to be honest. It is furu' Al-Aqidah. Moreover, do you think I'll be asked infront of Allah in the akhirah weather I believe in Isa's (as) ghaybah or not?

[MuslimAnswers]

This Jannah is not in the Heavens. It was the Jannah that was on this planet.

I can pretty much see where you are heading to with that statement.

By the way, being this forum is Sunni/Twelvers polemical discussion, I still cannot see how does your argument about Isa's (as) ghaybah could practically give a "catasthropic" blow to Twelvers argument of their Mahdi's ghaybah, as you claimed. Seriously. They could always, among other arguments, comeback saying there will always be 2 opinions in Sunnis and you cannot, practically speaking, eliminate that. And as I said previously, they could easily accuse us of pick-and-choose what suits us.

Whatever else I might think about the polemics being employed, the discussion should probably be moved to another section, as this section of 'Imamah-Ghaybah' is specifically for Sunni vs. Twelver discusions

[ZulFiqar]

I readily confess that my primary motivation for speaking about this mas’ala is not to sharpen our intellectual tools in repudiating the doctrines of the Imamiya, though it is icing on the cake. The fact of the matter is that the Imamiya are and always have been an intellectually bankrupt sect. The appeal of that tendency has always been rooted in emotion and disatisfaction or not finding fulfilment in sticking to the clarity and purity of the Sunna. But it is my contention that at this time it is more important to acquaint people with the fikr of Tawhid before calling to the Sunna. The Prophets called to Tawhid al-Ibada as did our master al-Mustafa ﷺ. But when Tawhid was established in the land, then the initial deviations that occurred in the time of his successors and the Salaf were not concerning Tawhid al-Ibada but rather deviations from various aspects of the Sunna. I am speaking here about the deviations of Kharijiyya, Rifd, Nasb, Qadr, Tajahhum, I’tizal, Irjaa, Tajsim and the like which are deviations from the Sunna but not necessarily concerning Tawhid al-Ibada which was firmly established by the Help of Allah and through the agency of His honorable Prophet. So the Muslims of the Straight Path in those times exerted their intellectual efforts in establishing the Sunna and combatting all these deviations, and hence in that atmosphere orthodoxy became synonymous with Ahlus Sunnati wal-Jama’ah. Now the Fikr of Tawhid al-Ibada is dismissed in the hearts of many in this time as an unsophisticated, rural Da’wa. In fact the majority deride it as Wahhabi Da’wa that focuses on condemning folk practices such as veneration of tombs, petitioning the deceased, amuletry, talismanry, palmistry, astrology, etc. Yet in this time not only is this Da’wa desperately needed considering how widespread such idolatrous practices and ideas are, but I consider it the most virtuous effort a Muslim can dedicate himself to with the intention of bringing glory to Allah thus stoking His happiness. Now it is obvious that this doctrine that Jesus of Nazareth ascended into Heaven in his Jasad or corporeal body is like an idol that has penetrated deep into your heart. I intend to smash it to pieces with the bifurcated sword of Muhammad ﷺ. This circulating of the truth of Wafat-al-Masih is merely an extension of the fikr of Tawhid al-Ibada and nothing else. The Prophet ﷺ said: “I was sent to break the idols” (Muslim Sharif). Now this doctrine of Jesus of Nazareth having ascended corporally into Heaven where he has been living for two thousand years bears the stench of the religion of the cross worshipers. Therefore do not consider this as minutiae or merely a theoretical exercise. The objective is to cleanse the minds of the Muslims from the Nicene influence and arm them with powerful weapons to obliterate the illusory dogma of the deification of Christ. Now it is not sufficient to merely condemn as forbidden the folk practices of the ignorant masses concerning their devotion to tombs and supplicating the souls of the departed. It is superior to establish the intellectual proof before which the darkness of Shirk immediately vanishes. The Quran al-Karim has been revealed containing those intellectual proofs through which idolatry is obliterated. When it announces emphatically that the deceased are unable to hear anything, the foundation of the idolatry of calling upon the souls of Prophets and Saints crumbles. Likewise, when it proclaims loudly that Jesus of Nazareth was a mere mortal human being whose soul was snatched away and is hence dead the idolatry of the cross is broken forever.

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

All of the evidences you have quoted establish the necessity of following the Sahaba رضى الله عنهم as a collective. This is also from where we derive the concept of Ijma. But you haven't presented a single evidence from Qur'an and Sunnah which states that the saying of a Sahabi is a Hujjah in the Religion.

I have proven from Quran, Marfoo hadeeth and sayings of Sahaba and Salaf, that we have believe just like the Sahaba believed. And one authentic hadeeth from a Sahabi about his belief which is not contradicted by any authentic hadeeth is worthy to be believed upon.

But since you insist that the saying of a Sahabi is a Hujjah in the Religion, then I will present to you the views of some of the Sahaba رضى الله عنهم that sayyidina Isa عليه السلام was not raised alive into Heaven in his Jasad:

When the Companion Jarud رضى الله عنه was dispatched to Bahrain to debate with the apostate tribes (Abd al Qais in particular). The reason they had become apostate was because they were bewildered as to how the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم had died if he was a true Prophet. So they abandoned Islam. Thus Jarud رضى الله عنه put forward to them the examples of sayyidina Musa and sayyidina Eisa عليهم السلام. The apostates bore witness that both of them were Messengers of Allah. Then Jarud said:
وأنا أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدا عبده ورسوله . عاش كما عاشوا ، ومات كما ماتوا
"And I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship except Allah and that Muhammad is His servant and Messenger. He lived as they all lived and he died as they all died."[/font][/size]


[/size][/font]

One of the basic criteria to act upon a hadeeth is to check whether it is authentic or not. So let us verify whether it is authentic or not.

I looked up for the chain of this report but I didn't find any Isnad for this report in the quoted book, you can try it yourself:
http://shamela.ws/browse.php/book-31465/page-285

Ibn ‘Uyayna said:“A hadith without any chain of transmission is nothing. Certainly the chains of transmission are a ladder of the texts by which one reaches the texts.” [Related by al-Khatib al-Baghdadi in al-Kifaya fi ‘Ilm ar-Riwaya, p. 393.]

Al-Imam ash-Shafi‘i said: “The one who accepts the knowledge from somebody without the sanad(chain of transmission) is like a person carrying a bundle of wood with a snake in it and he does not know. It may bite him (anytime).”[al-Bayhaqi, al-Madkhal ila as-Sunan al-Kubra, p. 211.]

Abdullah bin Mubarak (d. 181 A.H.) said:
الإسناد عندي من الدين لولا الإسناد لقال من شاء ما شاء وإذا قيل له : من حدثك ؟ بقي
‘Isnaad (chains of narrators) to me are a part of Deen, and if it was not for Isnaad, one would have said whatever hee desired. When it is said (to the one who speaks without Isnaad): Who informed you? He remains silent and bewildered.’ (Khateeb Baghdadi’s Al-Akhlaaq Al-Rawi wa Aadaab A-Sami’ 4/392 Narration 1654)

Hence, this report which you quoted gets rejected.

Likewise, we have the statement of sayyidina Hassan al-Mujtaba رضى الله عنه when he gave a sermon at the time of the martyrdom of his honorable father sayyidina Amir ul Mumineen Ali رضى الله عنه. He said:

ولقد قبض في الليلة التي عرج فيها بروح عيسى بن مريم ليلة سبع وعشرين من رمضان
"And he (Ali^RA) was taken (martyred) in the Night in which the Ruh of Jesus son of Mary ascended, the twenty-seventh of Ramadan."






The statement of sayyidina Hasan رضى الله عنه proves that he believed that sayyidina Eisa عليه السلام did not ascend into Heaven with his Jasad, but only with his Ruh.

This narration has quite a number of problems:

1- In its chain is the narrator Al-Ajlah bin ‘Abdullah who has been criticized by the scholars. Hafiz Ibn Hajr quotes the opinions of various scholars about him;

Ibn Abi Hatim said: ‘He is not strong. Write his narrations but do not seek evidence with them.’

Nasai said: ‘Weak! He has nothing’

Abu Dawud said: ‘[He is] Weak’

Jozjani said: ‘[He is a] Liar’

(Tehzib Al-Tehzib 1/166 Entry 353)

Infact Ibn Sa’d who quoted this narration termed him extremely weak. After giving his basic bio-data he writes:

وكان ضعيفا جدا

‘And he is extremely weak.’ (Tabaqat Ibn Sa’d 6/350)

Hence the narration is extremely weak even according to the judgment of the author of the book.

2- The narration with this particular wording is unreliable as it contradicts another narration on similar lines reported by trustworthy narrators. We read in Al-Hakim’s collection;

حدثنا الأستاذ أبو الوليد الهيثم بن خلف الدوري ، ثنا سوار بن عبد الله العنبري ، ثنا المعتمر قال : قال أبي : حدثنا الحريث بن مخشي ، أن عليا قتل صبيحة إحدى وعشرين من رمضان ، قال : فسمعت الحسن بن علي يقول ، وهو يخطب وذكر مناقب علي ، فقال : « قتل ليلة أنزل القرآن ، وليلة أسري  بعيسى ، وليلة قبض موسى »

Abu Al-Waleed Al-Haitham narrated from Sawar bin ‘Abdullah Al-Anbari; he said, Mu’tamar narrated to us; he said: ‘My father said’; Harith bin Makhshi narrated: ‘Ali (RA) was murdered the morning of 21st Ramadan. He said; I heard Hassan bin ‘Ali (RA) speaking. He was making an address and talking of the virtues of ‘Ali (RA); he said: ‘He has been killed the night Qur’an was revealed, the night ‘Eisa (AS) was moved and the night Musa (AS) died.’ (Mustadrak Hakim, Hadith 4671. Hakim said it is Sahih).

Now this narration uses the word أسري which means to traverse a path, to make displacement. This certainly refers to his physical  ascension to the heavens. Also note that the contrast of this word to the that used for Musa (AS). Had he died a natural death, there was no reason to use the word with the markedly different implication.

Lest one may ask as to the al-Dhahbi’s comment on this Hadith for we know he declared many of the narrations authenticated by al-Hakim as dubious, and recently we considered one such example, I shall clarify that al-Dhahbi did not comment on this narration. And scholars say that a narration of al-Hakim’s Mustadrak on which al-Dhahbi does not comment is Hasan in status if not criticized by others. (See Shaykh Abdul Fattah Abu Ghoddah’s Qawa’id fi ‘Uloom al-Hadith p. 71, pub. Idara al-Qur’an wa ‘Uloom al-Islamia, Karachi)

Same narration has been quoted by Jalaluddin Suyuti in Durr Manthur 2/348 under Qur’an 3:54-57

Obviously the second narration which has been authenticated by the scholars must be considered and first one stands rejected because of its weak chain and difference with the authentic narration. And the second narration does not give any hint to what Ahmadis suggest. Infact it testifies to the contrary.

3- Interestingly Imam Nasai who termed a key narrator of the narration in question as weak and Imam Hakim and Suyuti who have quoted and authenticated the other narration have all been recognized as Mujaddids by Ahmadis.

Thus no authentic narration supports the Ahmadi contention.

Similar narrations from Shi’a sources:

4- Here are some narrations of the similar import from Shi’a sources;

In Biharul Anwar of Allama Muhammad Baqir al-Majlasi it is reported;

عن حبيب بن عمرو قال : لما توفي أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام قام الحسن عليه السلام خطيبا فقال : أيها الناس في هذه الليلة رفع عيسى بن مريم .

Narrated Habib bin ‘Amr: ‘When the Commander of the Faithful passed away, Hassan stood and spoke. He said, ‘O you people! On this night ‘Eisa ibn Maryam was raised.’ (Biharul Anwar vol.14 p.335)

Another narration says;

عن أبي بصير ، عن أبي عبدالله عليه السلام قال : قال أبوجعفر عليه السلام : لما كانت الليلة التي قتل فيها علي عليه السلام لم يرفع عن وجه الارض حجر إلا وجد تحته دم عبيط حتى طلع الفجر ، وكذلك كانت الليلة التي قتل فيها يوشع بن نون عليه السلام ، و كذلك كانت الليلة التي رفع فيها عيسى بن مريم عليه السلام وكذلك الليلة التي قتل فيها الحسين عليه السلام

Narrated Abi Baseer from Abu Abdullah (A.S.), he said:  Abu Ja‘far (AS) said, “On the night when ‘Alí (AS) was murdered no stone was lifted from the face of the earth unless beneath it was found pure fresh blood, until the first break of dawn. It was the same on the night Yusha‘ ibn Nun (A.S.) was murdered, and it was the same on the night when Eisa ibn Maryam (AS) was raised, and it was the same on the night when Husain (AS) was murdered.” (Biharul Anwar vol.14 p.336)

There are similar reports in Tahdhib al-Ahkam of Abu Ja’far Muhammad bin Hassan al-Tusi and Tafsir Ayyashi.

Conclusion:

All these narrations are infact evidence against Ahmadiyya.

The narration of al-Hakim and the first one from Biharul Anwar clearly use the words ‘Qabadha’ and ‘Tawaffi’ implying death of Musa (AS) and Ali (RA) respectively but not one of them uses any such word for ‘Eisa (AS). This is a categorical proof that ‘Eisa (AS) did not die and the ‘Rafa’ mentioned for him relates to physical ascension and not just exaltation in ranks after death.

Taken from
http://thecult.info/blog/2011/02/03/hadith-alleged-death-of-jesus-12-statement-of-hassan-ra-at-kufa/

And we have the statement of sayyidina Umar b. al-Khattab رضى الله عنه at the time when the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم died.

عَنْ عِكْرِمَةَ ، قَالَ : " تُوُفِّيَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ يَوْمَ الِاثْنَيْنِ ، فَحُبِسَ بَقِيَّةَ يَوْمِهِ وَلَيْلَتَهُ وَالْغَدَ حَتَّى دُفِنَ لَيْلَةَ الْأَرْبِعَاءِ ، وَقَالُوا : إِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ لَمْ يَمُتْ ، وَلَكِنْ عُرِجَ بِرُوحِهِ كَمَا عُرِجَ بِرُوحِ مُوسَى ، فَقَامَ عُمَرُ ، فَقَالَ : إِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ لَمْ يَمُتْ ، وَلَكِنْ عُرِجَ بِرُوحِهِ كَمَا عُرِجَ بِرُوحِ مُوسَى ، وَاللَّهِ لَا يَمُوتُ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ حَتَّى يَقْطَعَ أَيْدِيَ أَقْوَامٍ وَأَلْسِنَتَهُمْ
Ikrima narrates that Rasul Allah(SAW) died on Monday but was buried on Wednesday. People were saying: "Verily Rasul Allah(SAW) did not die, but his Ruh ascended like the ascension of the Ruh of Musa(AS)." So Umar(RA) stood up and said: "Verily, Rasul Allah(SAW) did not die, but his Ruh ascended like the ascension of the Ruh of Musa(AS). By Allah! Rasul Allah(SAW) will not die until he cuts the hands and tongues of nations." (Darimi Sharif)

This Hadith proves that not only Umar, but some other unnamed companions were saying the same thing. Now why did sayyidina Umar give the example of Musa instead of Eisa. If he believed that Eisa(AS) was alive and not deceased, he would have given that more obvious precedent, rather than mentioning Musa(AS) because everyone is agreed that Musa(AS) died. But the fact that sayyidina Umar(RA) did not give the example of sayyidina Eisa(AS) to prove that likewise the Prophet(SAW) has not died shows that even Umar(RA) knew and believed firmly that sayyidina Eisa(AS) died.

Firstly the report you quoted is weak, because it is Mursal. Ikrima Mawla Ibn Abbas is a Taba'i. Secondly it's not an explicit evidence from your side, which can't overrule an explicit Sahih hadeeth from sahabi.

Secondly, your argument gets killed by another narration on this issue:

عن أبي سلمة بن عبد الرحمن قال: اقتحم الناس على النبي، صلى الله عليه وسلم، في بيت عائشة ينظرون إليه فقالوا: كيف يموت وهو شهيد علينا ونحن شهداء على الناس؟ … لا والله ما مات ولكنه رفع كما رفع عيسى بن مريم، صلى الله عليه وسلم

Narrated Abu Salamah bin ‘Abd al-Rahman: The people rushed to the Prophet, may Allah bless him, in the apartment of ‘Aisha to look at him. They said: “How can he die since he is a witness to us and we are witnesses to other people? … No! by Allah! He has not died; but he has been raised as ‘Eisa ibn Maryam was made to ascend.” (Tabaqat al-Kubra 2/271).

The narration at first place proves that not merely ‘Umar but other companions too referred to ascension of ‘Eisa –may Allah bless him and be pleased with them all.

It further proves that at the back of their minds the blessed companions had the idea that ‘Eisa ibn Maryam –may Allah bless him- was alive and has been raised to the heavens and will return.

A query killed:

Lest one say, ‘Eisa’ –may Allah bless him- ascension was not physical because the companions said that while the body of the Holy Prophet –may Allah bless him- was present in front of them, the response is that they said it out of the shock and inability to believe in the death of the Holy Prophet.

We read:

فلم يزل عمر يتكلم ، حتى أزبد شدقاه

“’Umar continued speaking till the edges of his mouth were filled with foam.” (Kanzul ‘Ummal, Hadith 18773)

This was surely due to him being much affected by the tragedy.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad also said:

“And due to the sorrow he (‘Umar) was like the people who lose senses.” (Tuhfa Ghaznawiya p.55 –R.K. vol.15 p.588)

Moreover, ‘Umar and other companions alluded to ‘Eisa’ –may Allah bless him- ascension to contend against the death of the Holy Prophet –may Allah bless him- which also shows they belief in the life of ‘Eisa –may Allah bless him.

For details refer:
http://thecult.info/blog/2011/07/13/myth-of-ijma%e2%80%99-on-the-alleged-death-of-%e2%80%98eisa-as/

Now according to you the statements of these Sahaba are a Hujjah in the Religion
[/size][/font]

Please correct yourself. What I meant was about authentic hadeeth, not weak and unreliable reports.


Eisa (AS) did ascend and will descend from the Heavens above; categorical Ahadith

Hadith 1
عن ابن عباس قال: لما أراد الله أن يرفع عيسى إلى السماء خرج على أصحابه …ورفع عيسى من رَوْزَنَة في البيت إلى السماء
Ibn Abbas said, “When Allah intended to raise ‘Eisa to the heavens, he went to his companions … and ‘Eisa ascended to the Heavens through an opening in the top of the house.”
(Ibn Abi Hatim 4/431 Hadith 6266, Ibn Kathir 2/449. Ibn Kathir graded it Sahih)

Hadith 2
عن صفية أم المؤمنين رضي الله عنها أنها كانت إذا زارت بيت المقدس ، وفرغت من الصلاة في المسجد الأقصى صعدت على جبل زيتا فصلت عليه وقالت : هذا الجبل هو الذي رفع منه عيسى عليه السلام إلى السماء
It is narrated from Ummul Momineen Safiya, may Allah be pleased with her, that when she visited Bait Al-Maqdis (i.e. Jerusalem) and finished prayers in Al-Aqsa Mosque she climbed up to Mt. Olives and prayed there as well and said: ‘This is the mountain from where ‘Eisa, may Allah bless him, was raised up to the Heavens.’ (Al-Tasrih bima Tawatar fi Nuzul Al-Masih Hadith 74 cf. Tafsir Fath Al-Aziz Surah 95)

Hadith 3
إن أبا هريرة رضي الله عنه قال : قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم : « كيف أنتم إذا نزل ابن مريم من السماء فيكم
Narrated Abu Huraira, may Allah be pleased with him: Allah’s Messenger, may Allah bless him, said “What will be your condition when the son of Maryam (i.e. ‘Eisa) will descend amongst you from the heavens…?” (Baihaqi’s Asmaa wal Sifaat 2/432 Hadith 855; Shaykh Abdullah bin Muhammad al-Hashidi has classified the narration as Sahih))

Hadith 4
عن أبى هريرة قال سمعت أبا القاسم الصادق المصدوق يقول …ثم ينزل عيسى بن مريم عليه وسلم من السماء فيؤم الناس
Abu Huraira  said: I heard Abul Qasim the Truthful and Trustworthy (i.e. Holy Prophet) say: ‘… then ‘Eisa ibn Maryam, on him be the peace, will descend from the heavens and lead the people.’
(Majma’ Al-Zawaid 7/349. Haithmi said, Bazzar has narrated it and all its narrators are those of the Sahih [i.e. Sahih Bukhari] except Ali bin Munzar and he is also trustworthy)

Hadith 5
قال ابن عباس : قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم : فعند ذلك ينزل أخي عيسى ابن مريم من السماء
Ibn Abbas narrated: the Messenger of Allah, on whom be the blessings of Allah, said: ‘And near it (Bait al-Maqdis) will descend from the Heavens my brother ‘Eisa ibn Maryam.’
(Kanzul Ummal 14/619 Hadith 39726)

Hadith 6
عن ابن عباس { إن تعذبهم فإنهم عبادك } يقول : عبيدك قد استوجبوا العذاب بمقالتهم { وإن تغفر لهم } أي من تركت منهم ومد في عمره حتى أهبط من السماء إلى الأرض يقتل الدجال ، فنزلوا عن مقالتهم ووحدوك
About the verse, ‘If you punish them they are your servants’ Ibn Abbas  said, he [‘Eisa] will say: ‘These slaves of yours have invited your chastisement by what they said [and believed]’. ‘And if you forgive them’ i.e. ‘those whom I left behind me and those who were there when I came down from the Heavens to Earth to kill al-Dajjal and they turned back from what they said [i.e. Trinity] and believed in your Oneness…’
(Durr Manthur 4/27 Under Surah 5 Ayah 118).

Hadith 7
We read in Al-Hakim’s collection;
حدثنا الأستاذ أبو الوليد الهيثم بن خلف الدوري ، ثنا سوار بن عبد الله العنبري ، ثنا المعتمر قال : قال أبي : حدثنا الحريث بن مخشي ، أن عليا قتل صبيحة إحدى وعشرين من رمضان ، قال : فسمعت الحسن بن علي يقول ، وهو يخطب وذكر مناقب علي ، فقال : « قتل ليلة أنزل القرآن ، وليلة أسري  بعيسى ، وليلة قبض موسى »
Abu Al-Waleed Al-Haitham narrated from Sawar bin ‘Abdullah Al-Anbari; he said, Mu’tamar narrated to us; he said: ‘My father said’; Harith bin Makhshi narrated: ‘Ali (RA) was murdered the morning of 21st Ramadan. He said; I heard Hassan bin ‘Ali (RA) speaking. He was making an address and talking of the virtues of ‘Ali (RA); he said: ‘He has been killed the night Qur’an was revealed, the night ‘Eisa (AS) was moved and the night Musa (AS) died.’ (Mustadrak Hakim, Hadith 4671. Hakim said it is Sahih).

Now this narration uses the word أسري which means to traverse a path, to make displacement. This certainly refers to his physical  ascension to the heavens. Also note that the contrast of this word to the that used for Musa (AS). Had he died a natural death, there was no reason to use the word with the markedly different implication.

Hadith 8

عن ابن عباس قال … وإن الله رفعه بجسده، وانه حي الآن، وسيرجع إلى الدنيا فيكون فيها ملكاً، ثم يموت كما يموت الناس
Narrated from Ibn Abbas, he said: “… and verily Allah raised him [Eisa ibn Maryam] with his body while he was alive and he will soon return to this world and will be a ruler therein. Then he will die as other people die.”  (Ibn S’ad’ Tabaqat Al-Kubra 1/53)


Taken from :
http://thecult.info/blog/2011/03/18/eisa-as-did-ascend-and-will-descend-from-the-heavens-above-categorical-ahadith/


Hadith 8

Proof that Isa(as) didn't die.

Al-Tabari and Ibn Abi Hatim quote hadeeth, notice word يأتي (future tense):
“When a delegation of sixty men from (the Christian) people of Najran came to the Holy Prophet, their chief priest discussed with him the status of Jesus and asked him as to who Jesus’ father was. The Holy Prophet said…:
ألستم تعلمون أن ربَّنا حيّ لا يموت، وأنّ عيسى يأتي عليه الفناء؟
“Do you not know that Our Lord (Allah) is ever living but death will come to Jesus?”
(Tafsir Al-Tabari 6/154 Narration. 6544, Ibn Abi Hatim 9/408. Both have brought it under verse 1 of Surah 3)


Therefore the conclusion is that, weak and unrealible reports cannot be taken as hujjah, in comparison to authentic reports from multiple Sahaba.

[ZulFiqar]

And one authentic hadeeth from a Sahabi about his belief which is not contradicted by any authentic hadeeth is worthy to be believed upon.

You haven't proven that at all, i.e., that the Qawl of a Sahabi is a Hujjah in the Religion, and why you completely overlooked the Athar of Ibn Abbas about the 7 Earths which each Earth having a Prophet like our Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم

This narration has quite a number of problems:

1- In its chain is the narrator Al-Ajlah bin ‘Abdullah who has been criticized by the scholars. Hafiz Ibn Hajr quotes the opinions of various scholars about him;

As usual you are just copying and pasting what Waqar Akbar Cheema has written polemically without bothering to verify anything. Hafiz Ibn Hajar himself after reviewing all the different views regarding Ajlah b. Abd Allah concluded by declaring him Saduq:





Here you can read a more detailed analysis of the narrator Ajlah b. Abd Allah b. Hujayyah al Kindi
http://asmaur-rijaal.blogspot.ca/2013/01/ajlah-bin-abdullah-bin-hujayyah-al-kindi.html

The conclusion:

1-    Shaykh Ahmed Shaakir said: “He is Thiqah, some people have criticized him for no reason”
[Tahqeeq Tafseer at-Tabari: 5/169]

2-    Shaykh Sulemaan bin Abdullah bin Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhaab authenticated his hadeeth and said: “All its narrators are Thiqaat”
[Tayseer al-Azeez al-Hameed fi Sharh Kitaab at-Tawheed: 1/521]

3-    Haafidh Ibn Ahmed bin Ali al-Hukmi (D. 1377) while commenting on a hadeeth, said: “Al-Ajlah…. Is Sadooq Shi’i as said in al-Taqreeb, and the remaining narrators are Thiqaat, narrators of Shaykhayn, therefore the chain is Hasan…”
[A’laam al-Sunnah al-Manshoorah: 1/22]

4-    Shaykh Naasir ud-Deen Albaani declared him Hasan ul-Hadeeth
[Silsilah as-Saheehah: 139]

5-    Husayn Saleem Asam authenticated his hadeeth saying: “Its chain is Hasan”
[Tahqeeq Musnad Abi Ya’la: 2639, 7239]

6-    Shaykh Abdullah bin Deefullah al-Raheeli said: “The conclusion is that he is differed upon, and apparently he is Hasan ul-Hadeeth, and evidence is not taken from him in that which accords his Bid’ah”
[Tahqeeq Man Takallam feehi of Dhahabi: 1/74]

7-    Shaykh Abu Taahir Zubayr Alee Za’ee mentioned him in “Al-Sa’ee al-Mashkoor Feeman Waththaqah ul-Jumhoor (Those who are Thiqah according to the Jumhoor)”
[Tahqeeqi Maqaalaat: P. 349]

So Ajlah b. Abd Allah is accepted in Hadith, making this narration authentic and proving decisively that Imam Hassan رضى الله عنه considered Jesus as having been ascended in his Ruh not his body.

4- Here are some narrations of the similar import from Shi’a sources;

In Biharul Anwar of Allama Muhammad Baqir al-Majlasi it is reported;

عن حبيب بن عمرو قال : لما توفي أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام قام الحسن عليه السلام خطيبا فقال : أيها الناس في هذه الليلة رفع عيسى بن مريم .

Narrated Habib bin ‘Amr: ‘When the Commander of the Faithful passed away, Hassan stood and spoke. He said, ‘O you people! On this night ‘Eisa ibn Maryam was raised.’ (Biharul Anwar vol.14 p.335)

How strange is it you dismissed the Hadith I quoted as being weak (and it isn't weak as I've proven that Ajlah b. Abd Allah is declared as acceptable in Hadith), and now you are quoting narrations from Mulla Baqir Majlisi and Shi'ite books? How unfair is this?!

Firstly the report you quoted is weak, because it is Mursal. Ikrima Mawla Ibn Abbas is a Taba'i. Secondly it's not an explicit evidence from your side, which can't overrule an explicit Sahih hadeeth from sahabi.

Secondly, your argument gets killed by another narration on this issue:

عن أبي سلمة بن عبد الرحمن قال: اقتحم الناس على النبي، صلى الله عليه وسلم، في بيت عائشة ينظرون إليه فقالوا: كيف يموت وهو شهيد علينا ونحن شهداء على الناس؟ … لا والله ما مات ولكنه رفع كما رفع عيسى بن مريم، صلى الله عليه وسلم

Narrated Abu Salamah bin ‘Abd al-Rahman: The people rushed to the Prophet, may Allah bless him, in the apartment of ‘Aisha to look at him. They said: “How can he die since he is a witness to us and we are witnesses to other people? … No! by Allah! He has not died; but he has been raised as ‘Eisa ibn Maryam was made to ascend.” (Tabaqat al-Kubra 2/271).

What! You dismiss the narration I bring because it is Mursal despite being authentically established until Ikrima, but then you quote a narration that is truly weak. It contains the matrook narrator Muhammad b. Umar al-Waqidi, he is severely weak.

The narration at first place proves that not merely ‘Umar but other companions too referred to ascension of ‘Eisa –may Allah bless him and be pleased with them all.

It further proves that at the back of their minds the blessed companions had the idea that ‘Eisa ibn Maryam –may Allah bless him- was alive and has been raised to the heavens and will return.

The Hadith is extremely weak due to the narrator Muhammad b. Umar al-Waqidi. If you keep insisting on it that shows your double standard and dishonesty.

Hadith 1
عن ابن عباس قال: لما أراد الله أن يرفع عيسى إلى السماء خرج على أصحابه …ورفع عيسى من رَوْزَنَة في البيت إلى السماء
Ibn Abbas said, “When Allah intended to raise ‘Eisa to the heavens, he went to his companions … and ‘Eisa ascended to the Heavens through an opening in the top of the house.”
(Ibn Abi Hatim 4/431 Hadith 6266, Ibn Kathir 2/449. Ibn Kathir graded it Sahih)

Hadith 2
عن صفية أم المؤمنين رضي الله عنها أنها كانت إذا زارت بيت المقدس ، وفرغت من الصلاة في المسجد الأقصى صعدت على جبل زيتا فصلت عليه وقالت : هذا الجبل هو الذي رفع منه عيسى عليه السلام إلى السماء
It is narrated from Ummul Momineen Safiya, may Allah be pleased with her, that when she visited Bait Al-Maqdis (i.e. Jerusalem) and finished prayers in Al-Aqsa Mosque she climbed up to Mt. Olives and prayed there as well and said: ‘This is the mountain from where ‘Eisa, may Allah bless him, was raised up to the Heavens.’ (Al-Tasrih bima Tawatar fi Nuzul Al-Masih Hadith 74 cf. Tafsir Fath Al-Aziz Surah 95)

Don't you realise these above 2 Athar you cited are contradicting each other? Did Eisa عليه السلام ascend to heaven on the Mount of Olives or from the roof of a house?

Hadith 3
إن أبا هريرة رضي الله عنه قال : قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم : « كيف أنتم إذا نزل ابن مريم من السماء فيكم
Narrated Abu Huraira, may Allah be pleased with him: Allah’s Messenger, may Allah bless him, said “What will be your condition when the son of Maryam (i.e. ‘Eisa) will descend amongst you from the heavens…?” (Baihaqi’s Asmaa wal Sifaat 2/432 Hadith 855; Shaykh Abdullah bin Muhammad al-Hashidi has classified the narration as Sahih))

The narration is Shaadh in its wording, because more authentic narrations such as from Sahihayn don't mention the word "sky".

but even if these narrations about descending from the sky are authentic, it does not necessarily prove that Jesus was raised to the sky in his body, or that at present he is living in the sky in his Jasad without being fed.

In Sha Allah will deal with the rest soon.

[ZulFiqar]

Proof that Isa(as) didn't die.

Al-Tabari and Ibn Abi Hatim quote hadeeth, notice word يأتي (future tense):
“When a delegation of sixty men from (the Christian) people of Najran came to the Holy Prophet, their chief priest discussed with him the status of Jesus and asked him as to who Jesus’ father was. The Holy Prophet said…:
ألستم تعلمون أن ربَّنا حيّ لا يموت، وأنّ عيسى يأتي عليه الفناء؟
“Do you not know that Our Lord (Allah) is ever living but death will come to Jesus?”
(Tafsir Al-Tabari 6/154 Narration. 6544, Ibn Abi Hatim 9/408. Both have brought it under verse 1 of Surah 3)

Therefore the conclusion is that, weak and unrealible reports cannot be taken as hujjah, in comparison to authentic reports from multiple Sahaba.

How ironic is it that you say weak and unreliable reports are unacceptable, but just before writing those words you have cited a weak and unreliable report? Why are you blind following the article of Waqar Akbar Cheema without verifying the Hadith yourself?

The narration from Ibn Abi Hatim contains Ahmad b. Abdir Rahman and the one from Tabari contains Muthanna b. Ibrahim who is Majhul.

And did you answer the Hadith proving the death of Jesus I quoted from Bukhari?

فَأَقُولُ كَمَا قَالَ الْعَبْدُ الصَّالِحُ ‏{‏وَكُنْتُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا مَا دُمْتُ فِيهِمْ فَلَمَّا تَوَفَّيْتَنِي كُنْتَ أَنْتَ الرَّقِيبَ عَلَيْهِمْ‏}‏
 I will say as the pious slave (the Prophet (ﷺ) Jesus) said: And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them. When You caused me to die [FALAMMA TAWAFFAYTANEE]. You were the Watcher over them and You are a Witness to all things.' (5.117)
(Bukhari Sharif)

Now in the case of Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم you admit that here فلمّا توفّيتني means فلمّا تميتني then the entire Debate is decisively concluded.

[ZulFiqar]

Hadith 5
قال ابن عباس : قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم : فعند ذلك ينزل أخي عيسى ابن مريم من السماء
Ibn Abbas narrated: the Messenger of Allah, on whom be the blessings of Allah, said: ‘And near it (Bait al-Maqdis) will descend from the Heavens my brother ‘Eisa ibn Maryam.’
(Kanzul Ummal 14/619 Hadith 39726)

What happened to Eisa bin Maryam عليهما السلام descending near the White Minaret in the east of Damascus? Now you are saying he will descend to Bait al Maqdis?

[Abu Muhammad]

Having said that, I would love to see your own construction of the story. From your previous posts, the story was vaguely expressed by you. Please write one but it shall be based on the facts presented in surat Al-Kahfi starting from verse 9 until verse 26.

I will in sha Allah do so shortly.

Still waiting...

[ZulFiqar]

Still waiting...

I've written the first part, in sha Allah will complete the second part soon:

As promised I am now going to present my understanding of these Verses. But before I do so, I refer you and others to articles I've already written on the subjects:

Companions of the Cave

Dog of the AsHab al-Kahf

Background

The first 10 Ayaat of Surat-al-Kahf are specially designated as a defense and guidance against the tribulation of Dajjal. It is incorrect to think that the content of these Ayaat have no particular guidance for the Muslims concerning the Dajjal and it is merely the recitation of them which will act as an antidote to Dajjal. The lesson to be drawn from them is that the fitna of Dajjal will be the excessive beautification of this world toward the end of time acting as a seduction for people to turn away from their Faith and come to the Dajjal. It is in this context that Allah mentions AsHab-al-Kahf as a model to be followed during the Latter Days in order to secure oneself against the Fitna:

9. أَمْ حَسِبْتَ أَنَّ أَصْحَابَ الْكَهْفِ وَالرَّقِيمِ كَانُوا مِنْ آيَاتِنَا عَجَبًا
Or do you think that the Companions of the Cave and Inscription were among Our Signs something strange?

This first Verse where AsHab-al-Kahf are mentioned is the key to unlocking everything for the one who sees with the Noor of his heart and has been submerged in the knowledge of the Quran al-Karim. This first Verse is an important disclaimer to understand the rest of the story, which is that the reader needs to keep in mind that the story of the AsHab-al-Kahf is not something strange or supernatural.

10. إِذْ أَوَى الْفِتْيَةُ إِلَى الْكَهْفِ فَقَالُوا رَبَّنَا آتِنَا مِن لَّدُنكَ رَحْمَةً وَهَيِّئْ لَنَا مِنْ أَمْرِنَا رَشَدًا
When the youths withdrew to the Cave, they said: "Our Lord, grant us from Yourself Mercy and facilitate for us from our affair Guidance."

This is the last of the 10 Verses that are read to safeguard oneself against the Fitna of Dajjal. It gives us the practice of Awaa and Uzla that is, withdrawing from society into a cave (a remote area) and praying to Allah for mercy and guidance. This is the theme of AsHab-al-Kahf, withdrawal and retreating from the society of Jahiliyya and Fitna.

11. فَضَرَبْنَا عَلَىٰ آذَانِهِمْ فِي الْكَهْفِ سِنِينَ عَدَدًا
So We cast upon their ears in the Cave a number of years

Considering the context of what has already preceded, Allah is saying that He protected the ears of the AsHab al Kahf from hearing about the affairs of the Fitna of the society beyond the cave to where they had withdrawn themselves to.

12. ثُمَّ بَعَثْنَاهُمْ لِنَعْلَمَ أَيُّ الْحِزْبَيْنِ أَحْصَىٰ لِمَا لَبِثُوا أَمَدًا
Then We raised them up to make evident as to which of the two parties best calculated the period they remained

13. نَّحْنُ نَقُصُّ عَلَيْكَ نَبَأَهُم بِالْحَقِّ ۚ إِنَّهُمْ فِتْيَةٌ آمَنُوا بِرَبِّهِمْ وَزِدْنَاهُمْ هُدًى
We relate upon you their News with Truth. Verily they were youths who believed in their Lord and We increased them in guidance

The phrase بالحق "with Truth" means that Allah is going to tell us their story with a purpose and real objective, not merely as a story to pass the time like how the storytellers tell wonderful tales for people's amusement.

14. وَرَبَطْنَا عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِهِمْ إِذْ قَامُوا فَقَالُوا رَبُّنَا رَبُّ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ لَن نَّدْعُوَ مِن دُونِهِ إِلَـٰهًا ۖ لَّقَدْ قُلْنَا إِذًا شَطَطًا
And We made firm their hearts when they stood up and said, "Our Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth. Never will we invoke besides Him any deity. We would have certainly spoken, then, an excessive transgression.

This Verse reveals the fact that the fitna of the time of AsHab al Kahf which they were fleeing from was that of a Taghout and so they were seeking to secure their Iman in the Oneness of Allah and to escape this Taghout who was ordering and expecting the people to worship him. This is how the story of AsHab al Kahf is relevant to the Fitna of Dajjal, who is the Taghout to come in the near future with a similar Fitna.

15. هَـٰؤُلَاءِ قَوْمُنَا اتَّخَذُوا مِن دُونِهِ آلِهَةً ۖ لَّوْلَا يَأْتُونَ عَلَيْهِم بِسُلْطَانٍ بَيِّنٍ ۖ فَمَنْ أَظْلَمُ مِمَّنِ افْتَرَىٰ عَلَى اللَّـهِ كَذِبًا
These our people have taken besides Him (Allah) gods. These, our people, have taken besides Him deities. Why do they not bring for [worship of] them a clear authority? And who is more unjust than one who invents about Allah a lie?"

This Verse reveals the fact that the people to whom the AsHab al Kahf belonged to were a people devoted to false gods and a false religion, under the pressure of their Taghout ruler.

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

Now I will present some additional arguments that sayyidina Eisa عليه السلام was not raised up into Heaven in his Jasad:

1. The book Aqidat at Tahawiyya composed by Abu Ja'far al-Tahawi al-Hanafi رحمة الله عليه, considered the most agreed upon exposition of the creed of Ahlus Sunnati wal Jama'ah, does not mention as any one of its points of creed the ascension of sayyidina Eisa عليه السلام into Heaven in his Jasad.

IJMA OF UMMAH was described by a classical scholar about Isa(as) beiing alive in heaven and about his descend.

Ibn Athiya (died in 542 From Hijraa explained in his tafseer “Al Muharrar Al Wajiz”
أجمعت الأمة على ما تضمنه الحديث المتواتر من أن عيسى في السماء حي، وأنه سينزل في آخر الزمان فيقتل الخنزير ويكسر الصليب ويقتل الدجال ويفيض العدل وتظهر به الملة – ملة محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم – ويحج البيت …
(IJMA UMMAH)All muslim agree to have faith upon the content of hadith mutawatir (from plenty of valid chain of narrations) that Prophet Isa is still alive in heaven. He will descend at end of time, kill the hogs, break the cross, kill Dajjal, impose justice, and the religion of Muhammad will win over it’s enemies with his lead, and he also perform hajj…” (Al-Muharrar Al-Wajiz, 3:143)
 

2. The Imam Ibnul Qayyim al-Jawziyya رحمة الله عليه said:

وأما ما يذكر عن المسيح أنه رفع إلى السماء وله ثلاث وثلاثون سنة فهذا لا يعرف له أثر متصل يجب المصير إليه

Translation: “As for what is mentioned regarding the Messiah that he ascended into Heaven at the age of thirty three years, there is no known report that is sound and connected in this regard to which one could turn to.”

Reference: Zaad-ul-Ma'ad; v.1 p.82

This is an misunderstanding from your part , What Ibn al Qayyim is highlighting (at 1/p.82 – very top of page) is that, in his view, there is a lack of sound hadith which confirm Prophet 'Isa (on him be peace) was 33 years of age at the time he was raised. He isn't questioning the fact that he was indeed raised up to heaven.

This is clear from the preceding line where he mentions that Prophet Muhammad sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam was sent when he was 40 which he calls the "age of perfection" and that it is said Messengers are [only] sent at [or after] this age. He seems to be implying that perhaps Prophet 'Isa (on him be peace) was older than opinions suggest.

courtesy:
https://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showpost.php?p=32690&postcount=11

Furthermore, in the same book, Imam Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziya explains that apart from the Prophet (peace be upon him), no other person, including the prophets, has ever ascended into Heaven with both body and soul:

ومن سواه لا ينال بذات روحه الصعود إلى السماء إلا بعد الموت والمفارقة ، فالأنبياء إنما استقرت أرواحهم هناك بعد مفارقة الأبدان

Translation: “No one, apart from him (the Prophet Muhammad – peace be upon him) was taken into Heaven except after death and through separation (of soul from body). As for the Prophets, their souls are stationed there (in Heaven) after the separation from their bodies.”

Reference: Zaad al-Ma'ad; v.3 p.36-37[/size][/font]




http://islamsalvationfromhell.blogspot.ca/2015/09/imam-ibn-qayyim-al-jawziya-no-proof.html

This was a general statement made by ibn qayyim, or that he overlooked it in regards to Isa(as), but that means it even includes the special case of Isa(as). This could be understood from the other books  of ibn qayyim where he explicitly mentioned about Isa(as) being alive and his descend from heaven.

We read:

(i).
هذا المسيح بن مريم حي لم يمت وغذاؤه من جنس غذاء الملائكة
Imam Ibn Qayyim said: This Al-Masih ibn Maryam(as) is alive, he didn't die, and his provision is the same provision of Angels. [Al-Tibyan fi aqsam al-Qur'an, page 383]
http://madrasato-mohammed.com/ibnou%20qiem/pg_007_0001.htm

(ii). Imam Ibn Qayyim said:
Muslims are waiting for descend of Isa ibn Maryam(as) from the heaven.....
 .[Ighathatul Lahfan fi Masayid ash-Shaytan, page 1120]
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Hence the explicit statements of  scholar on an issue will be given preference over the general statement.

3. The Sufi saint Ali b. Uthman al-Hujweri wrote in his book Kashf al-Mahjub that on the night of Mi'raj, the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم met the spirits (not bodies) of Adam, Yusuf, Musa, Harun, Ibrahim and Eisa عليهم السلام

http://islamsalvationfromhell.blogspot.ca/2015/09/sufi-ali-hujweri-prophet-as-met-only.html

Personal views of Sufis when they contradict view of Sahabi, they are rejected.

[ZulFiqar]

IJMA OF UMMAH was described by a classical scholar about Isa(as) beiing alive in heaven and about his descend.

Ibn Athiya (died in 542 From Hijraa explained in his tafseer “Al Muharrar Al Wajiz”
أجمعت الأمة على ما تضمنه الحديث المتواتر من أن عيسى في السماء حي، وأنه سينزل في آخر الزمان فيقتل الخنزير ويكسر الصليب ويقتل الدجال ويفيض العدل وتظهر به الملة – ملة محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم – ويحج البيت …
(IJMA UMMAH)All muslim agree to have faith upon the content of hadith mutawatir (from plenty of valid chain of narrations) that Prophet Isa is still alive in heaven. He will descend at end of time, kill the hogs, break the cross, kill Dajjal, impose justice, and the religion of Muhammad will win over it’s enemies with his lead, and he also perform hajj…” (Al-Muharrar Al-Wajiz, 3:143)

One person Ibn Atiyya is claiming Ijma and you are taking 1 person's saying as evidence of an Ijma? Do you even know what Ijma is? And you are claiming that all Muslims agree? Really? Billions of Muslims past and present did they all believe that Jesus is alive in Heaven with his body? How many references have I already presented to you of various scholars, let alone ordinary Muslims, who don't believe this. That alone is enough to break your claim of an Ijma. In fact, your claim that there is an Ijma is the weakest argument you have put forward as of yet. I can quote to you the views of scholars like Ibn Hazm al-Zahiri and even Imam Malik that they believe Jesus died.

http://islamsalvationfromhell.blogspot.ca/2015/09/imam-malik-ra-and-death-of-masih_14.html

http://islamsalvationfromhell.blogspot.ca/2015/09/imam-ibn-hazm-ra-and-death-of-jesus_17.html

And if we were to speak of contemporary scholars they are countless in believing that Jesus died. So where is your Ijma? What did Imam Ahmad b. Hanbal رحمه الله say about claiming Ijma?

This was a general statement made by ibn qayyim, or that he overlooked it in regards to Isa(as), but that means it even includes the special case of Isa(as). This could be understood from the other books  of ibn qayyim where he explicitly mentioned about Isa(as) being alive and his descend from heaven.

Firstly it cannot be a general statement because Ibnul Qayyim makes a specific exception for the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم. If Ibnul Qayyim believed that Jesus ascended into Heaven with his Jasad he would have obviously mentioned him. The fact that he said that sayyidina Muhammad صلى الله عليه سلم is the only exception shows his crystal clear Aqida in this regard.

None of the other quotes you brought from Ibnul Qayyim prove that he believed Jesus is alive in Heaven with his Jasad, which is our point of contention and nothing else.

Personal views of Sufis when they contradict view of Sahabi, they are rejected.

Still your so called "Ijma" is further broken.

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

How ironic is it that you say weak and unreliable reports are unacceptable, but just before writing those words you have cited a weak and unreliable report? Why are you blind following the article of Waqar Akbar Cheema without verifying the Hadith yourself?

the reason I'm not bothering to check those reports is because we have already cited an authentic athaar from a sahabi, then other athar would only be used as a supportive proof.
 

And did you answer the Hadith proving the death of Jesus I quoted from Bukhari?

فَأَقُولُ كَمَا قَالَ الْعَبْدُ الصَّالِحُ ‏{‏وَكُنْتُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا مَا دُمْتُ فِيهِمْ فَلَمَّا تَوَفَّيْتَنِي كُنْتَ أَنْتَ الرَّقِيبَ عَلَيْهِمْ‏}‏
 I will say as the pious slave (the Prophet (ﷺ) Jesus) said: And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them. When You caused me to die [FALAMMA TAWAFFAYTANEE]. You were the Watcher over them and You are a Witness to all things.' (5.117)
(Bukhari Sharif)

Now in the case of Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم you admit that here فلمّا توفّيتني means فلمّا تميتني then the entire Debate is decisively concluded.
[/size][/font]

Below is the complete text of the Hadith and its true explanation.

عَنْ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمَا قَالَ خَطَبَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فَقَالَ … وَإِنَّهُ يُجَاءُ بِرِجَالٍ مِنْ أُمَّتِي فَيُؤْخَذُ بِهِمْ ذَاتَ الشِّمَالِ فَأَقُولُ يَا رَبِّ أُصَيْحَابِي فَيُقَالُ إِنَّكَ لَا تَدْرِي مَا أَحْدَثُوا بَعْدَكَ فَأَقُولُ كَمَا قَالَ الْعَبْدُ الصَّالِحُ {وَكُنْتُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا مَا دُمْتُ فِيهِمْ فَلَمَّا تَوَفَّيْتَنِي كُنْتَ أَنْتَ الرَّقِيبَ عَلَيْهِمْ وَأَنْتَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ شَهِيدٌ} فَيُقَالُ إِنَّ هَؤُلَاءِ لَمْ يَزَالُوا مُرْتَدِّينَ عَلَى أَعْقَابِهِمْ مُنْذُ فَارَقْتَهُمْ

Ibn Abbas: The Prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم) delivered a sermon and said, “…Lo! Some men from my followers will be brought and taken towards the left side, whereupon I will say, ‘O Lord, (these are) my companions!’ It will be said, ‘You do not know what new things they introduced (into the religion) after you.’ I will then say as the righteous pious slave, Jesus, said, ‘I was a witness over them while I dwelt among them when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and You are the Witness to all things.’ (5: 117) Then it will be said, ‘(O Muhammad) these people never stopped to apostate since you left them.”
(Bukhari, Kitabul Tafsir, Hadith 4259)

Ahmadis argue that as the word تَوَفَّيْتَنِي ‘tawaffaitani‘ with reference to the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم) means physical death, it must have the same meaning with regards to Prophet Jesus (عليه السلام). But this is simply absurd and here I explain why;

1) When Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم) said, , ‘I will say just as the pious slave Jesus said..’, clearly he sought a parallel only in the sayings and the not their whole context and implications. This is just as if someone who has been extremely successful in debating various religions and cults on a certain forum, when asked to comment about his achievements, pronounces; ‘I would rather say just as Julius Caesar said, ‘I came, I saw, I conquered.’ Most certainly he does not mean that he actually won a battle against the Army of Pharnaces II of Pontus, or does he?

2) The word كَمَا ‘kama‘ between two phrases does not make them exactly same. For instance, in another Hadith we read;

عن أبي واقد الليثي أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم لما خرج إلى حنين مر بشجرة للمشركين يقال لها ذات أنواط يعلقون عليها أسلحتهم فقالوا يا رسول الله اجعل لنا ذات أنواط كما لهم ذات أنواط فقال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم سبحان الله هذا كما قال قوم موسى اجعل لنا إلها كما لهم آلهة والذي نفسي بيده لتركبن سنة من كان قبلكم

Abu Waqid Laythi reported that when the Prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم) went out for the Battle of Hunayn, he passed by a tree belonging to the polytheists. It was known as Dhat Anwat. They used to hang down their weapons over it. The companions said, “O Messenger of Allah, make for us a Dhat Anwat as there is for them a Dhat Anwat.” He said, “Glory be to Allah! This is just as what the people of Moses (عليه السلام) said, ‘Make for us a god as there is for them a god.’ By Him who has my soul in His hand, you will perpetrate the practices of the people gone before you.” (Jami’ Tirmidhi, Kitabul Fitan, Hadith 2180. Albani classified it as Sahih)

In this Hadith Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم) termed the wish of the pious companions to have a tree nominated to hang weapons on, akin to the wish of the people of Moses (عليه السلام) to have pagan deity like a certain people. Obviously the Prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم) did not mean that both wishes were exactly same rather, it only pointed to the same spirit of following the ways of disbelievers.

In the same way the Hadith in question does not mean that both Jesus and Muhammad, peace be upon them both, experienced same kind of ‘tawaffa’. It rather points out to the fact that both were not present among their people when they deviated.

3) Further, it is NOT necessary that ‘tawaffaitani’ means the same everywhere. According to linguists and scholars e.g. Abu Al-Baqa and Ibn Taymiya ‘tawaffa‘ has various meanings i.e. 1) To take in full, 2) Sleep and 3) Death. And the fact that one word may have different meanings for different subjects is proved from Quran. Infact in Surah Ma’ida’s same passage we read that Jesus (عليه السلام) will say;

فَقَدْ عَلِمْتَهُ تَعْلَمُ مَا فِي نَفْسِي وَلَا أَعْلَمُ مَا فِي نَفْسِكَ
“Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine [heart].” (Quran 5:116)

Here same word i.e. نَفْسِ ,translated as heart or mind, is used for Allah (سبحانه و تعالى) and Jesus (عليه السلام). Does that mean that نَفْسِ (i.e.heart/mind) of Allah (سبحانه و تعالى) and Jesus (عليه السلام) is exactly of same nature?
[Exactly is our Lord above all what they suggest]

Or as we read in Quran 33:43;

هُوَ الَّذِي يُصَلِّي عَلَيْكُمْ وَمَلَائِكَتُهُ
“He it is who sends salat (His blessings) on you, and his angels too (ask Allah to bless and forgive you)”

Most certainly here صلاة has different meanings with regards to Allah (سبحانه و تعالى) and the angels. Ibn Kathir writes:

والصلاة من الله ثناؤه على العبد عند الملائكة، … وقال غيره: الصلاة من الله: الرحمة … وأما الصلاة من الملائكة، فبمعنى الدعاء للناس والاستغفار
“Allah’s Salah means that He praises His servant before the angels …others said: “Allah’s Salah means mercy.” … Salah from the angels means their supplication and seeking forgiveness for people.” (Ibn Kathir 6/436 under Surah 33 Ayah 43)

Similarly the word ‘tawaffa‘ does not mean exactly same for Jesus (عليه السلام) and Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم). This goes perfectly in line with the fact that same word can have different meanings in different contexts and concerning different persons.

4) On the Ahmadi lines of the argument a Christian may say that perhaps Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم) also died through crucifixion like Jesus as the same word is used for both of them. He can only be answered that it is known from other evidences as to how the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم) died. Similarly from evidences other then this verse we know that ‘tawaffa‘ of Jesus (عليه السلام) was different from that of Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم).

5) As to the fact that Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم) has used the past tense, it is because Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم) will say this on the Day of Judgment and as the saying of Jesus (عليه السلام) has already been told in the Quran so it was in his and the listeners prior knowledge when he uttered these words.

6) The Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم) will recite this verse as the implication is exactly same i.e. neither Jesus (عليه السلام) was present among his people when they got involved in heresies (Trinity etc) nor was Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم) present while some from his Ummah deviated and some even if went out of the pale of Islam by believing in false prophets. Both went away from their people before they were lead astray.

Taken from
http://www.letmeturnthetables.com/2010/02/jesus-did-not-die-according-to-hadith.html#tawaffa

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

IJMA OF UMMAH was described by a classical scholar about Isa(as) beiing alive in heaven and about his descend.

Ibn Athiya (died in 542 From Hijraa explained in his tafseer “Al Muharrar Al Wajiz”
أجمعت الأمة على ما تضمنه الحديث المتواتر من أن عيسى في السماء حي، وأنه سينزل في آخر الزمان فيقتل الخنزير ويكسر الصليب ويقتل الدجال ويفيض العدل وتظهر به الملة – ملة محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم – ويحج البيت …
(IJMA UMMAH)All muslim agree to have faith upon the content of hadith mutawatir (from plenty of valid chain of narrations) that Prophet Isa is still alive in heaven. He will descend at end of time, kill the hogs, break the cross, kill Dajjal, impose justice, and the religion of Muhammad will win over it’s enemies with his lead, and he also perform hajj…” (Al-Muharrar Al-Wajiz, 3:143)

One person Ibn Atiyya is claiming Ijma and you are taking 1 person's saying as evidence of an Ijma? Do you even know what Ijma is? And you are claiming that all Muslims agree? Really? Billions of Muslims past and present did they all believe that Jesus is alive in Heaven with his body? How many references have I already presented to you of various scholars, let alone ordinary Muslims, who don't believe this. That alone is enough to break your claim of an Ijma. In fact, your claim that there is an Ijma is the weakest argument you have put forward as of yet. I can quote to you the views of scholars like Ibn Hazm al-Zahiri and even Imam Malik that they believe Jesus died.

http://islamsalvationfromhell.blogspot.ca/2015/09/imam-malik-ra-and-death-of-masih_14.html

http://islamsalvationfromhell.blogspot.ca/2015/09/imam-ibn-hazm-ra-and-death-of-jesus_17.html

And if we were to speak of contemporary scholars they are countless in believing that Jesus died. So where is your Ijma? What did Imam Ahmad b. Hanbal رحمه الله say about claiming Ijma?

Yes we do believe. And the scholars you mentioned that broke ijma, then these arguments have been refuted by schlolars in response to Qadiyanis.

Firstly it cannot be a general statement because Ibnul Qayyim makes a specific exception for the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم. If Ibnul Qayyim believed that Jesus ascended into Heaven with his Jasad he would have obviously mentioned him. The fact that he said that sayyidina Muhammad صلى الله عليه سلم is the only exception shows his crystal clear Aqida in this regard.

None of the other quotes you brought from Ibnul Qayyim prove that he believed Jesus is alive in Heaven with his Jasad, which is our point of contention and nothing else.

My replies are for the benefit of readers and I'm certain they'll get convinced with that. As for what Ibn Qayyim said, then He believes that Isa(as) DIDN'T DIE, HE IS ALIVE AND WILL DESCEND FROM HEAVEN, regardless of whether Ibn Qayyim believes with body or without body. But what is categorically proven that Ibn Qayyim believes Isa(As) didn't die he is alive.

[zaid_ibn_ali]

The thread is pointless as the original posters point is completely flawed.

1) No muslim doubts the existence of Isa AS. Yet there is no single shred of authentic evidence to the existence of the shia mahdi muhammad ibn hasan al askari.
You can't compare a real figure with a fairytale.

2) No muslim believes Isa AS to be the current Imam of our age since the past 1000 years.

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

Hadith 5
قال ابن عباس : قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم : فعند ذلك ينزل أخي عيسى ابن مريم من السماء
Ibn Abbas narrated: the Messenger of Allah, on whom be the blessings of Allah, said: ‘And near it (Bait al-Maqdis) will descend from the Heavens my brother ‘Eisa ibn Maryam.’
(Kanzul Ummal 14/619 Hadith 39726)

What happened to Eisa bin Maryam عليهما السلام descending near the White Minaret in the east of Damascus? Now you are saying he will descend to Bait al Maqdis?

The brother who translated it mistakenly put the wordings of Bait al Maqdis in the translation. The reports says on Jabal Afeeq, which is in Syria.

قال ابن عباس: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم: « ((فعند ذلك ينزل أخي عيسى ابن مريم من السماء على جبل أفيق
http://shamela.ws/browse.php/book-8575/page-123