Challenge to Sunnis: Ghayba of Ibn Mariam عليهما السلام

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

The stupidity is believing that a human being was raised up to the clouds and lives there without nourishment for over 2000 years.

And when it is said to them: Believe as the people believe, they say: Shall we believe as the fools believe? Now surely they themselves are the fools, but they do not know.(Quran 2:13).

What you call as stupidity is that on which Ummah agreed upon, there is an Ijmah of Ummah. And the true believers believe in the great power of Allah(swt) He is capable of doing what He wants.

 إِنَّ اللّهَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ
...Lo! Allah is Able to do all things(2:148)

As for your argument that this is something unique to Eesaa عليه السلام you still have to prove that uniqueness. It is the uniqueness of Eesaa alaihis salaam ascending in his body to Heaven that is disputed. To give that example is therefore a circular argument. And furthermore, many Sunni Ulama, in fact most of them, say that there were other Prophets and righteous people who were raised up in their physical bodies to the Heavens, so it is not unique to Eesaa عليه السلام.

The example I gave in my response to support the concept of Isa(as) being taken up by Allah being unique was the fact that Isa(As) would descend from heaven, which is also unique. And it seems this example of uniqueness isn't going down your throat, you seem to be on run, as it destroys the basis of your cult and exposes the imposter Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani.

Keep running away from the challenge I have made regarding the uniqueness of Isa(as) , regarding his descend from heaven.

[ZulFiqar]

Apparently, Mirza is making a contrast between Musa(as) and Isa(as), so are you implying that Mirza is rejecting Barzakhi life for Isa(as), but affirms for Musa(as) ?

Indeed Qadiyani stupidity has no limits.

The contrast is not regarding life or death if you care to read the context of the passage. Rather, Ghulam Ahmad is praising the status of Moosaa عليه السلام by saying that even Eesaa عليه السلام was his follower and bound to obey his Shari'ah, and furthermore that the Qur'aan implies his spiritual life whereas such an implication is not given for every other prophet, especially Eesaa عليه السلام, but this is not a negation of the spiritual life which all other Prophets are granted. But you should know that whereas all Believers are experiencing the delights of Hayaat al Ukhrawi with their souls (not bodies), even this life has levels and degrees, and some are upon higher level and others at a lower level. The Hadith of Mi'raj proves that the spiritual life of Moosaa عليه السلام is greater than that of Eesaa's عليه السلام

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

Apparently, Mirza is making a contrast between Musa(as) and Isa(as), so are you implying that Mirza is rejecting Barzakhi life for Isa(as), but affirms for Musa(as) ?

Indeed Qadiyani stupidity has no limits.

The contrast is not regarding life or death if you care to read the context of the passage. Rather, Ghulam Ahmad is praising the status of Moosaa عليه السلام by saying that even Eesaa عليه السلام was his follower and bound to obey his Shari'ah, and furthermore that the Qur'aan implies his spiritual life whereas such an implication is not given for every other prophet, especially Eesaa عليه السلام, but this is not a negation of the spiritual life which all other Prophets are granted. But you should know that whereas all Believers are experiencing the delights of Hayaat al Ukhrawi with their souls (not bodies), even this life has levels and degrees, and some are upon higher level and others at a lower level. The Hadith of Mi'raj proves that the spiritual life of Moosaa عليه السلام is greater than that of Eesaa's عليه السلام

These rubbish excuses are irrelevant. We are discussing what Mirza Ghulam wrote, not what, I should know, because regarding the Barzakhi life of people, even a Muslim kid knows and believes in this. So Ghulam Ahmad wasn't explaining some rocket science, to conclude its obligatory to believe he is alive in heaven. Secondly, he says, "Dead person cannot meet a living person", What kind of dead people he is talking about, when everyone after death has a Barzakhi life.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad wrote:

"Do you not read in the Quran that Allah has said: فَلاَ تَكُن فِي مِرْيَةٍ مِّن لِّقَآئِهِ (So do not be in doubt over his meeting). And you know that this ayah was revealed regarding Musa (a.s), so it is a CLEAR PROOF that Musa (alayhissalam) is alive. He had a meeting with the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad) ﷺ, and a DEAD PERSON CAN NOT MEET A LIVING PERSON. You cannot find ayat like this regarding Isa (alayhissalam), but yes, we find statements of his death on several occasions. So reflect! Because Allah loves those who reflect.". [Roohani Khazain vol 7 page 221 - 222 ; Hamamt-ul-Bushra page 132 ]

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad wrote:

"Isa (a.s) is just another prophet like other prophets, and is a servant of the Shariah of the Prophet (Musa) for whom all the milk (of women) was made Haram untill he reached his Mother's milk. His God spoke to him on The Mount of Sinai and blessed him by making him His dear prophet. And he is the same Musa, the man of God, about whom there is a clear sign in the Quran that HE IS ALIVE IN THE HEAVENS, AND IT IS FARD (OBLIGATORY) ON US THAT WE SHOULD BELIEVE THAT HE IS ALIVE IN THE HEAVENS AND NOT AMONG THE DEAD." [Noor e Haq in Roohani Khazain vol 8 page 68 - 69]

[ZulFiqar]

These rubbish excuses are irrelevant. We are discussing what Mirza Ghulam wrote, not what, I should know, because regarding the Barzakhi life of people, even a Muslim kid knows and believes in this. So Ghulam Ahmad wasn't explaining some rocket science, to conclude its obligatory to believe he is alive in heaven. Secondly, he says, "Dead person cannot meet a living person", What kind of dead people he is talking about, when everyone after death has a Barzakhi life.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad wrote:

"Do you not read in the Quran that Allah has said: فَلاَ تَكُن فِي مِرْيَةٍ مِّن لِّقَآئِهِ (So do not be in doubt over his meeting). And you know that this ayah was revealed regarding Musa (a.s), so it is a CLEAR PROOF that Musa (alayhissalam) is alive. He had a meeting with the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad) ﷺ, and a DEAD PERSON CAN NOT MEET A LIVING PERSON. You cannot find ayat like this regarding Isa (alayhissalam), but yes, we find statements of his death on several occasions. So reflect! Because Allah loves those who reflect.". [Roohani Khazain vol 7 page 221 - 222 ; Hamamt-ul-Bushra page 132 ]

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad wrote:

"Isa (a.s) is just another prophet like other prophets, and is a servant of the Shariah of the Prophet (Musa) for whom all the milk (of women) was made Haram untill he reached his Mother's milk. His God spoke to him on The Mount of Sinai and blessed him by making him His dear prophet. And he is the same Musa, the man of God, about whom there is a clear sign in the Quran that HE IS ALIVE IN THE HEAVENS, AND IT IS FARD (OBLIGATORY) ON US THAT WE SHOULD BELIEVE THAT HE IS ALIVE IN THE HEAVENS AND NOT AMONG THE DEAD." [Noor e Haq in Roohani Khazain vol 8 page 68 - 69]

You are trying to commit deception by quoting two unrelated passages from two different books in two different contexts together to make your point. I have already explained the quote from Noor-ul-Haq that it is regarding the high level of spiritual life that Moosaa عليه السلام is enjoying in the Sixth Heaven, as is proven from the Hadith of Mi'raj. Even Eesaa عليه السلام is not granted this high spiritual life that was given to sayyidina Moosaa.

As for the passage you quoted from Hamamat-ul-Bushraa, it is polemical and contains an Ilzaami Jawaab to refute people like you who believe Eesaa عليه السلام is alive in this Dunyaa. He is arguing that if you want to use such weak and brittle evidence as your foundation to believe that Eesaa (AS) is alive, then there is even such evidence along the same lines, in fact even more formidable, to prove that Moosaa (AS) is also alive, so why the double standard? If you think he is affirming his own aqeeda that Moosaa (AS) is alive you are sorely mistaken. He is practicing the Sunnah of Ibraaheem of giving a polemical answer to demonstrate the futility of the doctrine of the opposition:

فَلَمَّا رَأَى الشَّمْسَ بَازِغَةً قَالَ هَـٰذَا رَبِّي هَـٰذَا أَكْبَرُ
ٍSo when he saw the sun rising he said: "This is my lord, this is greater!" (Sura 6:78)

So here is my Ilzaami Jawaab to your accusation: If you want me to say that Ghulam Ahmad believed that Moosaa (AS) is alive then first you will have to admit that Ibraheem (AS) believed the Sun is his Lord معاذ الله

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

As for the passage you quoted from Hamamat-ul-Bushraa, it is polemical and contains an Ilzaami Jawaab to refute people like you who believe Eesaa عليه السلام is alive in this Dunyaa. He is arguing that if you want to use such weak and brittle evidence as your foundation to believe that Eesaa (AS) is alive, then there is even such evidence along the same lines, in fact even more formidable, to prove that Moosaa (AS) is also alive, so why the double standard? If you think he is affirming his own aqeeda that Moosaa (AS) is alive you are sorely mistaken. He is practicing the Sunnah of Ibraaheem of giving a polemical answer to demonstrate the futility of the doctrine of the opposition:

فَلَمَّا رَأَى الشَّمْسَ بَازِغَةً قَالَ هَـٰذَا رَبِّي هَـٰذَا أَكْبَرُ[/size]
]ٍSo when he saw the sun rising he said: "This is my lord, this is greater!" (Sura 6:78)

So here is my Ilzaami Jawaab to your accusation: If you want me to say that Ghulam Ahmad believed that Moosaa (AS) is alive then first you will have to admit that Ibraheem (AS) believed the Sun is his Lord معاذ الله

Moron, this is what I said, first learn to understand what your opponent is saying. This is what I said, before quoting his books.

I SAID:

I agree, an incorrect example was used by the scholar. Similar to how Mirza Ghulam claimed that believing in Isa(as) being alive, necessitates that Musa(as) is also alive. This is an invalid claim because, we have marfu mutawattir hadeeth that Isa(as) will descend from heaven, is there any authentic hadeeth which says Musa(as) will descend from heaven? If no, then the argument raised by Mirza Ghulam was his idiocy.

[ZulFiqar]

is there any authentic hadeeth which says Musa(as) will descend from heaven?

Your stupidity knows no limits. You yourself quoted the Ayah:

وَلَقَدْ آتَيْنَا مُوسَى الْكِتَابَ فَلَا تَكُن فِي مِرْيَةٍ مِّن لِّقَائِهِ
And We gave Moses the Book so do not be in doubt concerning his meeting (Sura 32:23)

You wanted a Mutawatir Hadith? What about an Ayat of the Quran? Now what you idiot?

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

In continuation of my preceding entry; I mentioned the idea that sayyidina Eesaa alaihis salaam was raised up to Allah in his corporal body necessitates that Allah's existence is corporal. This is the logical conclusion of such a doctrine. To demonstrate, I am showing the viewers a clip from a debate that took place between Salafi/Ahlul Hadith Professor Nasim Akram Jajah (Arguing for Eesaa alaihis salaam being alive and raised up into Heaven bodily) versus one Noor-ul-Hadi from a group calling themselves "al-Muslimeen" (arguing that Eesaa alaihis salaam is deceased). In his opening remarks, the Salafi professor said:

وہ اپنے جسم کے ساتھ اپنے ذات کے ساتھ عرش عظیم پر ہے

"He (Allah) is upon the Arsh with His Body (Jism), with His Essence (Dhaat)."

Notice that the Professor said these words specifically in the context of trying to prove that sayyidina Eesaa عليه السلام was raised (Rafa) up into the Heavens in his physical body

&feature=youtu.be

This Salafi professor is unknown, and his usage of words such as Jism for Allah are wrong in the view of Salafi Imams.

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen may Allaah have mercy upon him said,

"The viewpoint of Ahl As-Sunnah Wa-l-Jamaa‘ah is that Allaah, The Exalted, is High above His creation in His being; His ‘Uluww above His creation is one of His intrinsic eternal divine attributes. Two groups held an opposing view to that of Ahl As-Sunnah in this regard; one group were of the view that Allaah, The Exalted, exists everywhere. Others held that Allaah is not above the world, not below it, not in it, not to the right, not to the left, not separate from the world and not attached to it.... Those who argued that Allaah is not described as being in a certain direction say: describing Allaah as such entails that He consists in a body/mass (jism), and this necessitates assimilating Him to His creation, and therefore, we reject the proposition that Allaah exists in any of the six physical directions. However, we answer the two groups in two steps; first, we invalidate their argument, and second, we prove the opposite of their statement with decisive proof…. You say: affirming the existence of Allaah within the six physical directions entails Tajseem (corporealism, or that He is a jism)! Let us investigate the term "jism" first; what exactly is this jism in your view that causes you to negate the divine attributes because of it? Do you intend by "jism" a physical body that is composed of parts in need of each other, and the jism does not function except with these parts put together? If this is your intended meaning, then we reject it and we say: Allaah is not a jism in this sense, and whoever says: affirming the attribute of ‘Uluww to Allaah entails attributing a jism to Him, then his words are a mere claim and it is sufficient for us to say: not acceptable. However, if you mean by "jism" a being that exists on its own, one that is qualified with what befits it, we also affirm that. And we say that Allaah, exalted is He, has a being, and He is existing on His own, qualified with the attributes of perfection. And this is what every person knows.” [Sharh Al-‘Aqeedah Al-Waasitiyyah]

Ibn Taymiyyah may Allaah have mercy upon him said in his Dar' Ta‘aarudh An-Naql wa-l-‘Aql (Reconciling Reason and Revelation):

 "The discourse on Tamtheel (assimilationism, i.e. claiming total equality between the Creator and the created in all attributes) and Tashbeeh (resemblance, i.e. claiming equality between the Creator and the created in most attributes) and rejecting both in relation to the divine attributes of Allaah is one thing and the discourse on Tajseem (anthropomorphism, i.e. likening Allaah to a body) and rejecting it is something else. As to the first, it was negated by the Quran, Sunnah, and consensus of the Salaf (righteous predecessors) and all scholars. There are lengthy reports about their rejection of the claims of the proponents of Tashbeeh, who say that Allaah has a hand like mine, eyesight like mine and feet like mine. The discourse on whether Allaah is a jism or jawhar (substance) either to negate or affirm it, is a bid‘ah (religious innovation) that has no basis in the Quran and Sunnah and none of the early Muslims and early scholars addressed this issue, neither with negation nor with affirmation. The debate among those who affirm it and those who negate it is partially linguistic and partially signification-related; they are both erroneous in some way. If the debate is with someone who says: He is a "body" or "substance", if such a person says: (but) not like the bodies and substances, the problem lies only in the language. If someone says: He is like the bodies and substances, the discourse with such a person will be according to whatever meaning he explains. If the intended meaning is to assimilate Allaah with His creation, then it is rejected if it entails affirming the attribution of the attributes of created beings to Allaah; this is false. If the intended meaning is that Allaah is a body but not like bodies, and that He is exalted above resemblance to His creation, then the argument with them is about the affirmation or negation of this meaning."

Taken from:
http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=275167

Shiekh Ibn Othiameen (RahimahuAllah) in Sharh Al-Waasitiyyah he says:

ثانياً: قولكم: إثبات الجهة يستلزم التجسيم! نحن نناقشكم في كلمة الجسم:
ما هذا الجسم الذي تنفرون الناس عن إثبات صفات الله من أجله؟!
أتريدون بالجسم الشيء المكون من أشياء مفتقر بعضها إلى بعض لا يمكن أن يقوم إلى باجتماع هذه الأجزاء؟! فإن أردتم هذا، فنحن لا نقره، ونقول: إن الله ليس بجسم بهذا المعنى، ومن قال: إن إثبات علوه يستلزم هذا الجسم، فقوله مجرد دعوى ويكفينا أن نقول: لا قبول.
أما إن أردتم بالجسم الذات القائمة بنفسها المتصفة بما يليق بها، فنحن نثبت ذلك، ونقول: إن لله تعالى ذاتاً، وهو قائم بنفسه، متصف بصفات الكمال، وهذا هو الذي يعلم به كل إنسان
He says: "They say (AlJahmiyyah, Mu'tazilah, Ashaaiirah..etc) that by affirming that Allah has a jihah, they (the salaf) fall into tajseem. So lets discuss with them the meaning of the word "jism". If you mean a jism that is composed of parts that are in need of one another, that is unable to exist unless they are present, than we do not affirm this meaning. However, If you say that Al-jism is essentially the "thaat" that is independent from need (Alqaa2imm binafsih means Al-mustaghney an ghairih), and that is described by whatever is suitable for it, then yes, we do affirm this!"
---

However, since the word Jism was not used by the Salaf, we should not use it either. This is what Shiekh Ibn Othaimeen says in Sharh Al-Safaareeniyyah:

لكن مع ذلك ما نقول : إن الله جسم ،
حتى وإن أردنا هذا المعنى ،
وذلك لأن لفظ الجسم لم يرد في الكتاب والسنة لا إثباتاً ولا نفياً ،
ولأن إثبات الجسم إن أثبتناه فهو مستلزم للتشبيه على رأي بعض الناس ،
وإن نفيناه فهو مستلزم للتعطيل على رأي آخرين ،
إذن فلا نثبته ولا ننفيه ،
وهذا هو العقيدة السليمة ألا تثبت باللفظ : أن الله جسم أو ليس بجسم ، اسكت !
ما دام الله قد سكت عنه ورسوله سكت عنه والصحابة سكتوا عنه لا تثبت ولا تنفي ،
لكن تؤمن بأن الله ذاتاً موصوفة بالصفات اللائقة بها وإن الله يقبض ويبسط ويأخذ بيمينه الصدقة ويربيها وينـزل ويأتي

Taken from:
http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showpost.php?p=26803&postcount=2

CONCLUSION:

Ahlus Sunnah are against the idea of attributing Allah with a jism (body) and is also against negating one for Allah unconditionally.

Why?

Well, because jism has been defined differently by different groups of people.

According to the Greek philosophers, a body is a composition of hyle and form.

While according to the Asharis, a body is a composition of two different substances or essences.

While linguistically in modern times, a body is mostly used in the scientific sense to refer to the physical structure of a person or animal.

Ahlus Sunnah proactively deny all these understandings of jism for Allah. We affirmatively and non-hesitantly negate them for Allah.

However, body according to the classical Karramite sect, refers to any existent thing which could be pointed to. In that case, Ahlus Sunnah disagree with negating a body for Allah, for Ahlus Sunnah believe that Allah could be pointed to since 'Uluww is affirmed for Allah. "Pointed to" here is in the sense that we could raise our hands in dua to Allah or in the sense that we could say that Allahs above all creation, etc.

So even though the most commonly used forms of "body" are negated for Allah, Ahlus Sunnah are still cautious in this regard and first clarify what is meant by "body" before negating it.

However, Ahlus Sunnah are also against affirming a "body" for Allah, even with the correct meaning intended. This is because it's a bid'ah in both the Shariah and in the Arabic language itself.

Taken from
http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showpost.php?p=113646&postcount=1

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

is there any authentic hadeeth which says Musa(as) will descend from heaven?

Your stupidity knows no limits. You yourself quoted the Ayah:

وَلَقَدْ آتَيْنَا مُوسَى الْكِتَابَ فَلَا تَكُن فِي مِرْيَةٍ مِّن لِّقَائِهِ
And We gave Moses the Book so do not be in doubt concerning his meeting (Sura 32:23)

You wanted a Mutawatir Hadith? What about an Ayat of the Quran? Now what you idiot?

Moron! I was refuting the argument of the imposter Ghulam Ahmad. He argued that why don't you believe other Prophets being alive, Prophet Muhammad(saws) being alive, and then argues about Musa(as) being alive. Hence for all of his idiocy, I brought the evidence that WHY WE HAVE SINGLED OUT ISA(AS).  And the evidence is the descend of Isa(As) from heaven, etc. So, if Ghulam Ahmad or his doomed followers want us to believe that all Prophets(as) are alive or Musa(as) in specific, then He or his followers must bring evidence that all the Prophets will descend from heaven or Musa(as) will descend from heaven. If Ghulam Ahmad or his followers can't, then know that this argumentation was nothing but idiocy.

[ZulFiqar]

As usual you keep exposing how stupid you are by copying and pasting answers from other sources. At least have the courtesy of putting it in your own words.

The Salafi professor Naseem Akram Jaja is not unknown, he is representing your Salafi sect in debates and is a graduate from your learning institutions, having the qualifications to be a scholar. Anyone who you don't agree with from your own sect you will say he is unknown, how lame is that?

And the point you failed to respond to is that the belief that Jesus was raised up to Allah in his body necessitates that Allah's existence is corporal, limited, and confined to a direction. You say Jesus was raised to the sky, but the word "sky" is never used in reference to the Rafa (ascension) of Jesus. The Verses say Allah raised Jesus up to Himself. Therefore, whether you agree with Prof. Akram Jaja or not, he was forced to say this in order to justify his belief that Jesus was raised up in his corporal body.

If Jesus was raised up to Allah physically, then it means Allah was not where Jesus was before Jesus was raised? But the Holy Qur'an says:

وَهُوَ مَعَكُمْ أَيْنَ مَا كُنتُمْ
ِِAnd He (Allah) is with you wherever you are (Sura 57:4)

So if Jesus was raised up physically to Allah, it means Allah was not where Jesus was (presumably somewhere in Jerusalem) before he ascended. What is your answer to this point? Please don't copy and paste anymore irrelevant stuff either.

[ZulFiqar]

Moron! I was refuting the argument of the imposter Ghulam Ahmad. He argued that why don't you believe other Prophets being alive, Prophet Muhammad(saws) being alive, and then argues about Musa(as) being alive. Hence for all of his idiocy, I brought the evidence that WHY WE HAVE SINGLED OUT ISA(AS).  And the evidence is the descend of Isa(As) from heaven, etc. So, if Ghulam Ahmad or his doomed followers want us to believe that all Prophets(as) are alive or Musa(as) in specific, then He or his followers must bring evidence that all the Prophets will descend from heaven or Musa(as) will descend from heaven. If Ghulam Ahmad or his followers can't, then know that this argumentation was nothing but idiocy.

Foolish person, is descent from the sky the only thing to prove someone is alive? The Quraan said don't doubt about meeting Moses, that evidence is much stronger than anything you have from the Quran that Jesus is alive. The Quraan is stronger than any Hadith. There isn't anything explicit from the Quraan to prove that Jesus is alive. You have to depend on Hadith about descent. But if you want to use such weak argument to prove such a major belief, then there is even stronger evidence along the same lines to believe that Moses is still alive, because Allah says don't doubt about meeting him.

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

As usual you keep exposing how stupid you are by copying and pasting answers from other sources. At least have the courtesy of putting it in your own words.

The Salafi professor Naseem Akram Jaja is not unknown, he is representing your Salafi sect in debates and is a graduate from your learning institutions, having the qualifications to be a scholar. Anyone who you don't agree with from your own sect you will say he is unknown, how lame is that?

His status is nothing in comparison to Salafi Imams I quoted. My answers are for readers, you don't need bother moron. And the Salafi stance was clarified in detail, in my response.

And the point you failed to respond to is that the belief that Jesus was raised up to Allah in his body necessitates that Allah's existence is corporal, limited, and confined to a direction. You say Jesus was raised to the sky, but the word "sky" is never used in reference to the Rafa (ascension) of Jesus. The Verses say Allah raised Jesus up to Himself. Therefore, whether you agree with Prof. Akram Jaja or not, he was forced to say this in order to justify his belief that Jesus was raised up in his corporal body.

This shows that you are in serious need of taking comprehension understanding classes. Your performance is terrible. The response I posted has the answer to this shubha you raised. And in regards to the question that where is Allah, then here you go.

Prophet Muhammad(saws) said:
أَلاَ تَأْمَنُونِي وَأَنَا أَمِينُ مَنْ فِي السَّمَاءِ يَأْتِينِي خَبَرُ السَّمَاءِ صَبَاحًا وَمَسَاءً
Do you not trust me whereas I am the trustworthy one of He who is above the heaven? The khabar [from] the heaven comes to me morning and evening. [ Sahih al-Bukhari 4351 & Sahih Muslim 1064 b]

حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ أَبِي عُمَرَ، حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ، عَنْ عَمْرِو بْنِ دِينَارٍ، عَنْ أَبِي قَابُوسَ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عَمْرٍو، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ الرَّاحِمُونَ يَرْحَمُهُمُ الرَّحْمَنُ ارْحَمُوا مَنْ فِي الأَرْضِ يَرْحَمْكُمْ مَنْ فِي السَّمَاءِ الرَّحِمُ شُجْنَةٌ مِنَ الرَّحْمَنِ فَمَنْ وَصَلَهَا وَصَلَهُ اللَّهُ وَمَنْ قَطَعَهَا قَطَعَهُ اللَّهُ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى هَذَا حَدِيثٌ حَسَنٌ صَحِيحٌ
Abdullah bin 'Amr narrated that the Messenger of Allah said: "The merciful are shown mercy by Ar-Rahman. Be merciful on the earth, and you will be shown mercy from Who is above the heavens. The womb is named after Ar-Rahman, so whoever connects it, Allah connects him, and whoever severs it, Allah severs him."[Jami` at-Tirmidhi 1924; Hasan Sahih]

 Ja'far b Muhammad reported on the authority of his father:
They (the audience) said: We will bear witness that you have conveyed (the message), discharged (the ministry of Prophethood) and given wise (sincere) counsel. He (the narrator) said: He (the Holy Prophet) then raised his forefinger towards the sky and pointing it at the people (said):" O Allah, be witness. 0 Allah, be witness," saying it thrice.(Sahih Muslim English reference: Book 7, Hadith 2803; Sahih Muslim Arabic reference: Book 16, Hadith 3009).

Comment:-Had Allaah (swt) been everywhere, the Prophet (peace be upon him) would not have particularly raised his finger towards the sky.And we Shorten the Hadeeth for the convinence of the readers.

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو جَعْفَرٍ، مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الصَّبَّاحِ وَأَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ - وَتَقَارَبَا فِي لَفْظِ الْحَدِيثِ - قَالاَ حَدَّثَنَا إِسْمَاعِيلُ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، عَنْ حَجَّاجٍ الصَّوَّافِ، عَنْ يَحْيَى بْنِ أَبِي كَثِيرٍ، عَنْ هِلاَلِ بْنِ أَبِي مَيْمُونَةَ، عَنْ عَطَاءِ بْنِ يَسَارٍ، عَنْ مُعَاوِيَةَ بْنِ الْحَكَمِ السُّلَمِيِّ، قَالَ بَيْنَا أَنَا أُصَلِّي، مَعَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم إِذْ عَطَسَ رَجُلٌ مِنَ الْقَوْمِ فَقُلْتُ يَرْحَمُكَ اللَّهُ ‏.‏ فَرَمَانِي الْقَوْمُ بِأَبْصَارِهِمْ فَقُلْتُ وَاثُكْلَ أُمِّيَاهْ مَا شَأْنُكُمْ تَنْظُرُونَ إِلَىَّ ‏.‏ فَجَعَلُوا يَضْرِبُونَ بِأَيْدِيهِمْ عَلَى أَفْخَاذِهِمْ فَلَمَّا رَأَيْتُهُمْ يُصَمِّتُونَنِي لَكِنِّي سَكَتُّ فَلَمَّا صَلَّى رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَبِأَبِي هُوَ وَأُمِّي مَا رَأَيْتُ مُعَلِّمًا قَبْلَهُ وَلاَ بَعْدَهُ أَحْسَنَ تَعْلِيمًا مِنْهُ فَوَاللَّهِ مَا كَهَرَنِي وَلاَ ضَرَبَنِي وَلاَ شَتَمَنِي قَالَ ‏"‏ إِنَّ هَذِهِ الصَّلاَةَ لاَ يَصْلُحُ فِيهَا شَىْءٌ مِنْ كَلاَمِ النَّاسِ إِنَّمَا هُوَ التَّسْبِيحُ وَالتَّكْبِيرُ وَقِرَاءَةُ الْقُرْآنِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ أَوْ كَمَا قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قُلْتُ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ إِنِّي حَدِيثُ عَهْدٍ بِجَاهِلِيَّةٍ وَقَدْ جَاءَ اللَّهُ بِالإِسْلاَمِ وَإِنَّ مِنَّا رِجَالاً يَأْتُونَ الْكُهَّانَ ‏.‏ قَالَ ‏"‏ فَلاَ تَأْتِهِمْ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ وَمِنَّا رِجَالٌ يَتَطَيَّرُونَ ‏.‏ قَالَ ‏"‏ ذَاكَ شَىْءٌ يَجِدُونَهُ فِي صُدُورِهِمْ فَلاَ يَصُدَّنَّهُمْ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ ابْنُ الصَّبَّاحِ ‏"‏ فَلاَ يَصُدَّنَّكُمْ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ قُلْتُ وَمِنَّا رِجَالٌ يَخُطُّونَ ‏.‏ قَالَ ‏"‏ كَانَ نَبِيٌّ مِنَ الأَنْبِيَاءِ يَخُطُّ فَمَنْ وَافَقَ خَطَّهُ فَذَاكَ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ وَكَانَتْ لِي جَارِيَةٌ تَرْعَى غَنَمًا لِي قِبَلَ أُحُدٍ وَالْجَوَّانِيَّةِ فَاطَّلَعْتُ ذَاتَ يَوْمٍ فَإِذَا الذِّيبُ قَدْ ذَهَبَ بِشَاةٍ مِنْ غَنَمِهَا وَأَنَا رَجُلٌ مِنْ بَنِي آدَمَ آسَفُ كَمَا يَأْسَفُونَ لَكِنِّي صَكَكْتُهَا صَكَّةً فَأَتَيْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَعَظَّمَ ذَلِكَ عَلَىَّ قُلْتُ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ أَفَلاَ أُعْتِقُهَا قَالَ ‏"‏ ائْتِنِي بِهَا ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَأَتَيْتُهُ بِهَا فَقَالَ لَهَا ‏"‏ أَيْنَ اللَّهُ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَتْ فِي السَّمَاءِ ‏.‏ قَالَ ‏"‏ مَنْ أَنَا ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَتْ أَنْتَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ‏.‏ قَالَ ‏"‏ أَعْتِقْهَا فَإِنَّهَا مُؤْمِنَةٌ ‏"‏
 Mu'awiya b. al-Hakam said: I had a maid-servant who tended goats by the side of Uhud and Jawwaniya. One day I happened to pass that way and found that a wolf had carried a goat from her flock. I am after all a man from the posterity of Adam. I felt sorry as they (human beings) feel sorry. So I slapped her. I came to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and felt (this act of mine) as something grievous I said: Messenger of Allah, should I not grant her freedom? He (the Holy Prophet) said: Bring her to me. So I brought her to him. He said to her: Where is Allah? She said: He is in the heaven. He said: Who am I? She said: Thou art the Messenger of Allah. He said: Grant her freedom, she is a believing woman.[Sahih Muslim 537 a]


حَدَّثَنِي مَالِكٌ، عَنْ هِلاَلِ بْنِ أُسَامَةَ، عَنْ عَطَاءِ بْنِ يَسَارٍ، عَنْ عُمَرَ بْنِ الْحَكَمِ، أَنَّهُ قَالَ أَتَيْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَقُلْتُ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ إِنَّ جَارِيَةً لِي كَانَتْ تَرْعَى غَنَمًا لِي فَجِئْتُهَا وَقَدْ فُقِدَتْ شَاةٌ مِنَ الْغَنَمِ فَسَأَلْتُهَا عَنْهَا فَقَالَتْ أَكَلَهَا الذِّئْبُ فَأَسِفْتُ عَلَيْهَا وَكُنْتُ مِنْ بَنِي آدَمَ فَلَطَمْتُ وَجْهَهَا وَعَلَىَّ رَقَبَةٌ أَفَأُعْتِقُهَا فَقَالَ لَهَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ أَيْنَ اللَّهُ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَقَالَتْ فِي السَّمَاءِ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ مَنْ أَنَا ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَقَالَتْ أَنْتَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ أَعْتِقْهَا ‏"‏ ‏.‏
Malik related to me from Hilal ibn Usama from Ata ibn Yasar that Umar ibn al-Hakam said, "I went to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and said, 'Messenger of Allah, a slave girl of mine was tending my sheep. I came to her and one of the sheep was lost. I asked her about it and she said that a wolf had eaten it, so I became angry and I am one of the children of Adam, so I struck her on the face. As it happens, I have to set a slave free, shall I free her?' The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, questioned her, 'Where is Allah?' She said, 'In heaven.' He said, 'Who am I?' She said, 'You are the Messenger of Allah.' The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, 'Free her.' " [Muwatta Malik , Book 38, Hadith 1473]

Imam al-Shafi`i, who said:
وهكذا سَنَّ رسولُ الله في كل من امتحنه للإيمان
And this is how the Prophet set the standard in everyone he tested for faith:
أخبرنا مالك عن هلال بن أسامة عن عطاء بن يسار عن عُمَر بن الحَكَم قال
Malik reported to us: from Hilah bin Usamah: from Ataa' bin Yasaar: from Umar bin 'l-Hakam who said...
أتَيْتُ رسولَ اللهِ بِجَارِيَةٍ، فَقُلْتُ: ياَ رَسُولَ اللهِ، عَلَيَّ رَقَبَةٌ، أَفَأَعْتِقُهَا؟
فَقَالَ لَهَا رَسُولُ اللهِ: أَيْنَ اللهُ؟ فَقَالَتْ: فِي السَّمَاءِ
فَقَالَ: وَمَنْ أَنَا؟ قَالَتْ: أَنْتَ رَسُولُ اللهِ
قَالَ: فَأَعْتِقْهَا
(Al-Risaalah, Imam al-Shafi'i, بيان فرض الله في كتابه اتباع سنة نبيه)

It is also in Kitab 'l-Aathaar, Riwaayat Muhammad bin 'l-Hasan `An Abi Hanifah (narrating from `Ataa from Abdallah Ibn Rawaahah, pg. 398-9, vol 1, Darussalam edition, Tahqeeq by al-Ma`saraawi in Azhar University) which has the words أين الله in it as well.

I CAN GO ON AND ON WITH MUTAWATTIR AHADEETH WHICH SHOWS ALLAH IS ABOVE THE HEAVEN. FOR BENEFIT OF READERS: I suggest them to refer this link for more proofs:
http://www.systemoflife.com/articles/aqeedah/2000007-where-is-allah#axzz4mx2jnpMB

If Jesus was raised up to Allah physically, then it means Allah was not where Jesus was before Jesus was raised? But the Holy Qur'an says:[/size][/font]

وَهُوَ مَعَكُمْ أَيْنَ مَا كُنتُمْ[
And He (Allah) is with you wherever you are (Sura 57:4)

So if Jesus was raised up physically to Allah, it means Allah was not where Jesus was (presumably somewhere in Jerusalem) before he ascended. What is your answer to this point? Please don't copy and paste anymore irrelevant stuff either.

The verse you used is in regards to knowledge of Allah, Allah is with us, with his Knowledge. The verse before this one states:
He is the First and the Last, the Ascendant and the Intimate, and He is, of all things, Knowing.(57:3).

Muhammad bin Abdullaah bin al-Hajjaaj informed us, saying: Ahmad bin al-Husayn informed us, saying: Abdullaah bin Ahmad narrated to us, saying: My father said: Surayj bin an-Nu'maan said: Abdullaah bin Naafi' narrated to me: Maalik said: "Allaah is above the heaven, and His knowledge is in every place, nothing escapes it."[Sharh Usool il-I'tiqaad" of al-Laalikaa'ee (no. 673)]]
Taken from:
http://www.abovethethrone.com/arsh/articles/kcnmi-imaam-maalik-bin-anas-d-179h-allaah-is-above-the-heaven-and-his-knowledge-is-in-every-place.cfm

 Yoosuf bin Moosaa al-Qattaan, the Shaykh of Abu Bakr al-Khallaal, said: It was said to Abu Abdullah (Ahmad bin Hanbal): "Allaah is above the seventh heaven, over His Throne, separate and distinct (baa'in) from His creation, and His power and knowledge are in every place?" He said: Yes, He is over His Throne, and nothing escapes His knowledge. [Adh-Dhahabi's "Mukhtasar al-Uluww" (p. 189)]

Taken from:
http://www.abovethethrone.com/arsh/articles/wafmn-imaam-ahmad-bin-hanbal-d-241h-allaah-is-above-the-seventh-heaven-upon-his-throne.cfm

Harb bin Ismaa'eel al-Kirmaanee (d. 280H) said: I said to Ishaaq bin Raahawaih, "His, the Most High's saying, 'There is no secret gathering of three, except that He is the fourth...', how do we speak regarding it? He said: Wherever you may be, He is closer to you than your jugular vein, but He is separate and distinct from His creation (baa'inun min khalqihi). Then he (Ishaaq) mentioned from [Abdullaah] Ibn al-Mubaarak (d. 181H), his saying:He is over His Throne, separate and distinct from His creation (baa'inun min khalqihi). Then he (Ishaaq) said: The most apparent and manifest thing in that regard is His, the Most High's saying: ar-Rahmaan ascended above the Throne (Taha 20:5). [Mukhtasar al-Uluww" of adh-Dhahabee, (p. 191)]
http://www.abovethethrone.com/arsh/articles/xvndn-ishaaq-bin-raahawaih-d-237h-allaah-is-over-his-throne-separate-and-distinct-from-his-creation-baainun-min-khalqihi.cfm

From Saalih bin ad-Darees who said: Abdullaah began beating the head of a relative of his who held the view of Jahm. So I saw him beating him on his head with a sandal whilst saying, "No (I will not stop), (not) until you say Ar-Rahmaan ascended above the Throne, separate and distinct from His creation (ar-Rahmaanu 'alal-arsh istawaa, baa'inun min khalqihi)." [Mukhtasar al-Uluww" of adh-Dhahabee, (p. 172) ]
http://www.abovethethrone.com/arsh/articles/ecqjj-abdullaah-bin-abee-jafar-ar-raazee-d-200h-kept-beating-his-relative-affected-with-the-view-of-jahm.cfm


Al-Haafidh Abu Ja'far bin Muhammad bin Uthmaan bin Muhammad bin Abee Shaybah al-Abasee, the Muhaddith of al-Kufah in his time - and there is some speech made regarding him - he authored a book regarding the Throne, so he said (therein):
They mentioned that the Jahmiyyah say: "There is no veil between Allaah and His creation", and they rejected the Throne, and that Allaah is above it. They said, "He is in every place". So the Scholars explained (the verse), "He is with you..." to mean "His knowledge [is with you]". Then the reports that Allaah created the Throne and rose over it were transmitted through tawaatur [large-scale transmission]. So He is above the Throne, free [of being merged] with any of His creation, separate and distinct (baa'in) from them. ["Mukhtasar al-Uluww" of adh-Dhahabi (p. 220) ]
Taken from
http://www.abovethethrone.com/arsh/articles/igkwh-ibn-abee-shaybah-d-297h-the-jahmites-rejected-that-allaah-is-above-his-throne-separate-from-his-creation.cfm

So if Jesus was raised up physically to Allah, it means Allah was not where Jesus was (presumably somewhere in Jerusalem) before he ascended. What is your answer to this point? Please don't copy and paste anymore irrelevant stuff either.

Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal stated:
إذا أردت أن تعلم أن الجهمي كاذب على الله حين زعم أن الله في كل مكان ولا يكون في مكان دون مكان فقل أليس الله كان ولا شيء فيقول نعم فقل له حين خلق الشيء خلقه في نفسه أو خارجا من نفسه فإنه يصير إلى ثلاثة أقوال لا بد له من واحد منها إن زعم أن الله خلق الخلق في نفسه كفر حين زعم أن الجن والإنس والشياطين في نفسه
وإن قال خلقهم خارجا من نفسه ثم دخل فيهم كان هذا كفرا أيضا حين زعم أنه دخل في مكان وحش قذر رديء
وإن قال خلقهم خارجا من نفسه ثم لم يدخل فيهم رجع عن قوله أجمع وهو قول أهل السنة
If you wanted to know that the Jahmi is lying upon Allah when he claims that, "Allah is in everyplace and He is not in some place rather than another." Then say, "Didn't Allah exist when there was nothing?" He will say, "Yes." So say to him, "When He created something, did He create it in Himself or outside of His self?" He will lean towards three statements of which he must say one of them. If he says He created them within Himself, then he has committed kufr when he claims that the Jinn and the Humans and the Devils are inside of Him. If he says He created them outside of Himself then he entered into them, then this is kufr as well since he claims that He went into a place....If he says He created them outside of Himself and He doesn't go into it, then he has gone back on his statement completely and this is the statement of Ahl as-Sunnah. ["Ar-Radd `Ala az-Zanaadiqah wa al-Jahmiyyah", page 155-156].

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ][ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

Moron! I was refuting the argument of the imposter Ghulam Ahmad. He argued that why don't you believe other Prophets being alive, Prophet Muhammad(saws) being alive, and then argues about Musa(as) being alive. Hence for all of his idiocy, I brought the evidence that WHY WE HAVE SINGLED OUT ISA(AS).  And the evidence is the descend of Isa(As) from heaven, etc. So, if Ghulam Ahmad or his doomed followers want us to believe that all Prophets(as) are alive or Musa(as) in specific, then He or his followers must bring evidence that all the Prophets will descend from heaven or Musa(as) will descend from heaven. If Ghulam Ahmad or his followers can't, then know that this argumentation was nothing but idiocy.

Foolish person, is descent from the sky the only thing to prove someone is alive? The Quraan said don't doubt about meeting Moses, that evidence is much stronger than anything you have from the Quran that Jesus is alive. The Quraan is stronger than any Hadith. There isn't anything explicit from the Quraan to prove that Jesus is alive. You have to depend on Hadith about descent. But if you want to use such weak argument to prove such a major belief, then there is even stronger evidence along the same lines to believe that Moses is still alive, because Allah says don't doubt about meeting him.

We haven't established our proof from the hadeeth that Prophet(saws) met Isa(as) in heaven, hence he is alive, So Mirza jumps in and says that Quran talks about Prophet(saws) meeting Musa(As), hence he must be alive too. Meeting with Prophets in no way proves that they were alive, be it mentioned in Quran or Hadeeth (esp in your case since you believe it was a vision). Rather the evidence that Isa(As) is alive, is that Isa(as) will descend from heaven, which is unique to Isa(as). And this is the point from which Qadiyanis seem to run with their tails between their legs.

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

This is the rational basis for rejecting the Ijtehad of Ibn Mas'ud in the first place. You said he knew very well that Angels convey our Salam to him, but that is an assumption on your part.

You are an over confident Jahil, just like Mirza Ghulam Ahmed. Abdullah ibn Masood(ra) was well aware that angels convey salam to Prophet(saws), since he narrated the hadeeth from Prophet(saws).

أَخْبَرَنَا عَبْدُ الْوَهَّابِ بْنُ عَبْدِ الْحَكَمِ الْوَرَّاقُ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا مُعَاذُ بْنُ مُعَاذٍ، عَنْ سُفْيَانَ بْنِ سَعِيدٍ، ح وَأَخْبَرَنَا مَحْمُودُ بْنُ غَيْلاَنَ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا وَكِيعٌ، وَعَبْدُ الرَّزَّاقِ، عَنْ سُفْيَانَ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ السَّائِبِ، عَنْ زَاذَانَ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ إِنَّ لِلَّهِ مَلاَئِكَةً سَيَّاحِينَ فِي الأَرْضِ يُبَلِّغُونِي مِنْ أُمَّتِي السَّلاَمَ ‏"‏
It was narrated that Abdullah(ibn Masood) said: "The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'Allah (SWT) has angels who travel around on Earth conveying to me the Salams of my Ummah.'"(Sunan an-Nasa'i 1282; sahih).


[صحيح] وعن ابن مسعود رضي الله عنه عن النبي - صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ - قال:
"إن لله ملائكةً سيَّاحين، يُبلِّغوني عن أمَّتي السلامَ".
رواه النسائي، وابن حبان في "صحيحه"
http://shamela.ws/browse.php/book-179/page-923
Abdullah bin Mas’ood (radiallah anhu) narrates: The Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) said: “Allaah has angels who go around on earth, conveying to me the salaam of my ummah.” [ Saheeh al-Targheeb #1664, by Al-Albani]
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As for the rest of your post on this subject, which has several issues in it,  then you need to be school on a lot of these issues, InshaAllah i'll deal with it when i get some free time.

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

(i). Ibn Hajar Asqalani(d. 852 H) said:
وأما رفع عيسى فاتفق أصحاب الأخبار والتفسير على أنه رفع ببدنه حيا وإنما اختلفوا هل مات قبل أن يرفع أو نام فرفع
Regarding the Ascend of Isa(as), there is an agreement between Muhadditeen and Mufassireen that he was raised alive with body. However there is a disagreement that whether before ascend he was given death(for a small time) or he was raised while he was asleep.
(talkheer al Habeer, vol 3, page 214).
http://islamport.com/d/1/krj/1/57/665.html

This statement is manifestly contradictory. How can there be Ijmaa that Eesaa عليه السلام was raised up to the Heaven in his body when there is disagreement over whether or not he was raised up while in a state of sleep; when the Qur'aan al-Kareem clearly states that sleep is a state in which Allaah takes away the soul (not the body). The body remains behind in the Earth, while the soul is taken. It is the coming out of the soul from the body which makes the body "asleep". So it doesn't make sense to say Eesaa عليه السلام fell asleep while his soul was still in his body as it was being raised up to the Heavens.

The statement is not contradictory but rather, its your mind that is corrupt and incompetent. The body of a person can be transferred even when a person is asleep. And we know that at the time of sleep a person is not considered dead in actual sense, even though his soul is with Allah. Hence, Isa(as) was raised alive with body, and the Mufassireen and Muhadditheen are in agreement over this fact.

إن الله قد أجـــار أمتي من أن تجتمع على ضلالة
Messenger of Allah(saws) said: Allah Almighty has protected my ummah to agree on falsehood." [Silsilah as-Saheehah #1331]
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[Noor-us-Sunnah]

Hadith 3
إن أبا هريرة رضي الله عنه قال : قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم : « كيف أنتم إذا نزل ابن مريم من السماء فيكم
Narrated Abu Huraira, may Allah be pleased with him: Allah’s Messenger, may Allah bless him, said “What will be your condition when the son of Maryam (i.e. ‘Eisa) will descend amongst you from the heavens…?” (Baihaqi’s Asmaa wal Sifaat 2/432 Hadith 855; Shaykh Abdullah bin Muhammad al-Hashidi has classified the narration as Sahih))

أَخْبَرَنَا أَبُو عَبْدِ اللَّهِ الْحَافِظُ، أنا أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ إِسْحَاقَ، أنا أَحْمَدُ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، ثنا ابْنُ بُكَيْرٍ، حَدَّثَنِي اللَّيْثُ، عَنْ يُونُسَ، عَنِ ابْنِ شِهَابٍ، عَنْ نَافِعٍ، مَوْلَى أَبِي قَتَادَةَ الْأَنْصَارِيِّ قَالَ: إِنَّ أَبَا هُرَيْرَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ قَالَ: قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ: «كَيْفَ أَنْتُمْ إِذَا نَزَلَ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ فِيكُمْ وَإِمَامُكُمْ مِنْكُمْ» . رَوَاهُ الْبُخَارِيُّ فِي الصَّحِيحِ عَنْ يَحْيَى بْنِ بُكَيْرٍ، وَأَخْرَجَهُ مُسْلِمٌ مِنْ وَجْهٍ آخَرَ عَنْ يُونُسَ. وَإِنَّمَا أَرَادَ نُزُولَهُ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ بَعْدَ الرَّفْعِ إِلَيْهِ
(Asma’ wa Sifaat 2/331 Hadith 895. Shaykh Abdullah bin Muhammad al-Hashidi has classified the narration as Sahih

Hadith 4
عن أبى هريرة قال سمعت أبا القاسم الصادق المصدوق يقول …ثم ينزل عيسى بن مريم عليه وسلم من السماء فيؤم الناس
Abu Huraira  said: I heard Abul Qasim the Truthful and Trustworthy (i.e. Holy Prophet) say: ‘… then ‘Eisa ibn Maryam, on him be the peace, will descend from the heavens and lead the people.’
(Majma’ Al-Zawaid 7/349. Haithmi said, Bazzar has narrated it and all its narrators are those of the Sahih [i.e. Sahih Bukhari] except Ali bin Munzar and he is also trustworthy)

9642- حَدَّثَنا علي بن المنذر , حَدَّثَنا مُحَمَّد بن فضيل , عَنْ عَاصِمِ بْنِ كُلَيْبٍ , عَنْ أَبِيهِ , عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ رَضِيَ اللهُ عَنْهُ , قال: سمعت من أبي القاسم الصادق المصدوق يقول يخرج الأعور الدجال مسيح الضلالة قبل المشرق في زمن اختلاف من الناس وفرقة فيبلغ ما شاء الله أن يبلغ من الأرض في أربعين يوما الله أعلم ما مقدارها؟ فيلقى المؤمنون شدة شديدة، ثم ينزل عيسى بن مريم صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ من السماء فيقوم الناس فإذا رفع رأسه من ركعته قال: سمع الله لمن حمده قتل الله الدجال وظهر المؤمنون فأحلف أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ أبا القاسم الصادق المصدوق صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قال: إنه لحق وأما قريب فكل ما هو آت قريب.
[Musnad al-Bazzar]
http://shamela.ws/browse.php/book-12981/page-9206


12543 - وعن أبي هريرة قال : سمعت أبا القاسم الصادق المصدوق يقول : " يخرج أعور الدجال مسيح الضلالة قبل المشرق في زمن اختلاف من الناس وفرقة ، فيبلغ ما شاء الله أن يبلغ من الأرض في أربعين يوما الله أعلم ما مقدارها ، فيلقى المؤمنون شدة شديدة . ثم ينزل عيسى ابن مريم - صلى الله عليه وسلم - من السماء فيؤم الناس ، فإذا رفع رأسه من ركعته قال : سمع الله لمن حمده ، قتل الله المسيح الدجال وظهر المسلمون " . فأحلف أن رسول الله - صلى الله عليه وسلم - أبا القاسم الصادق المصدوق - صلى الله عليه وسلم - قال : " إنه لحق ، وأما أنه قريب فكل ما هو آت قريب " . رواه البزار ، ورجاله رجال الصحيح غير علي بن المنذر وهو ثقة
[Majma’ Al-Zawaid]
http://library.islamweb.net/NEWLIBRARY/display_book.php?bk_no=87&ID=2499&idfrom=12613&idto=12668&bookid=87&startno=43

Haithmi said, Bazzar has narrated it and all its narrators are those of the Sahih [i.e. Sahih Bukhari] except Ali bin Munzar and he is also trustworthy.

These reports along with the one in Sahih Muslim which states that Isa(as) will descend placing his hands on the wings of angels, prove that without a shadow of doubt Isa(as) will descend from heaven.  If supposedly, Isa(as) died and his body is on earth, then his body is in Grave, but we find in Quran that people who are in graves will come out only on the day of Judgement, but since Isa(as) will descend from heaven, as proven from Marfu hadeeth, this implies that he is not dead nor buried, otherwise this will contradict Quran. The correct and well supported view is tht Isa(a) will was raised up alive.

And the trumpet shall be blown, when lo! from their graves they shall hasten on to their Lord.(36:51)

The day on which they shall come forth from their graves in haste, as if they were hastening on to a goal,Their eyes cast down; disgrace shall overtake them; that is the day which they were threatened with.(70:43-44)

[Noor-us-Sunnah]

The essential Aqida of Ahmadiyya movement is the same as Ahlus sunnati wal Jamaah

1. The book Aqidat at Tahawiyya composed by Abu Ja'far al-Tahawi al-Hanafi رحمة الله عليه, considered the most agreed upon exposition of the creed of Ahlus Sunnati wal Jama'ah, does not mention as any one of its points of creed the ascension of sayyidina Eisa عليه السلام into Heaven in his Jasad.

al-Aqeedah al-Tahawiyyah categorically mentions about descent of Isa(as) from heaven, hence the Qadiyanis must believe that Isa(as) would descend from heaven, not that he would take birth.

وَنُؤْمِنُ بِأَشْرَاطِ السَّاعَةِ مِنْ خُرُوجِ الدَّجَّالِ وَنُزُولِ عِيسَى ابْنِ مَرْيَمَ عَلَيْهِ السَّلَامُ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ وَنُؤْمِنُ بِطُلُوعِ الشَّمْسِ مِنْ مَغْرِبِهَا وَخُرُوجِ دَابَّةِ الْأَرْضِ مِنْ مَوْضِعِهَا

We believe in the signs of the Hour such as the appearance of the Dajjal and the descent of Jesus son of Mary from heaven and we believe in the rising of the sun from where it sets and in the emergence of the beast from the earth.[al-Aqeedah al-Tahawiyyah, page 31]
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[ZulFiqar]

We haven't established our proof from the hadeeth that Prophet(saws) met Isa(as) in heaven, hence he is alive, So Mirza jumps in and says that Quran talks about Prophet(saws) meeting Musa(As), hence he must be alive too. Meeting with Prophets in no way proves that they were alive, be it mentioned in Quran or Hadeeth (esp in your case since you believe it was a vision). Rather the evidence that Isa(As) is alive, is that Isa(as) will descend from heaven, which is unique to Isa(as). And this is the point from which Qadiyanis seem to run with their tails between their legs.

Ghulam Ahmad said: "A dead person cannot meet a living person", so unless you believe that it was a Vision, you cannot explain how the Quraan talks about the meeting with Moosaa alaihis salaam unless you believe Moosaa alaihis salaam is alive.

Is there anything in the Holy Quraan itself which suggests Eesaa alaihis salaam is alive? On the contrary, there are at least 30 Ayaat which suggest he is deceased, and a handful of them are very explicit on that

[ZulFiqar]

The statement is not contradictory but rather, its your mind that is corrupt and incompetent. The body of a person can be transferred even when a person is asleep. And we know that at the time of sleep a person is not considered dead in actual sense, even though his soul is with Allah. Hence, Isa(as) was raised alive with body, and the Mufassireen and Muhadditheen are in agreement over this fact.

إن الله قد أجـــار أمتي من أن تجتمع على ضلالة
Messenger of Allah(saws) said: Allah Almighty has protected my ummah to agree on falsehood." [Silsilah as-Saheehah #1331]
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If the body of Eesaa alaihis salaam was transferred while he was asleep, it means his body was raised up to Heaven separately from his soul, because sleep is defined as the state in which the soul is taken away by Allah temporarily. So basically you are saying Allah caused Eesaa alaihis salaam to fall asleep and took out his soul raising it up to Him, then He raised up Eesaa's sleeping body. What is the point of that? It makes no sense at all, but then again, a doctrine based on legend and fable has so many holes in it its absolutely futile to explain it rationally. At least the Christians admit their irrational doctrine of trinity is a "mystery" which cannot be explained or understood by the limited human mind. So they are at least more consistent than you.

As for Ijma, the Hadith you quoted speaks about the entire agreement of the Ummah, not just your brand of Ulama. And the fact that I have quoted different scholars like Imam Malik and Ibn Hazm believing that sayyidina Eesaa alaihis salaam died has already broken your fragile "Ijmaa".

Furthermore, the Ijmaa of the Ummah doesn't mean the Ijmaa of a particular sect or even the Jama'ah, unless you want to argue that all the other 72 sects are excluded from the Ummah and make Takfir of them

[ZulFiqar]

If supposedly, Isa(as) died and his body is on earth, then his body is in Grave, but we find in Quran that people who are in graves will come out only on the day of Judgement, but since Isa(as) will descend from heaven, as proven from Marfu hadeeth, this implies that he is not dead nor buried, otherwise this will contradict Quran. The correct and well supported view is tht Isa(a) will was raised up alive.

And the trumpet shall be blown, when lo! from their graves they shall hasten on to their Lord.(36:51)

The day on which they shall come forth from their graves in haste, as if they were hastening on to a goal,Their eyes cast down; disgrace shall overtake them; that is the day which they were threatened with.(70:43-44)

You yourself claimed Eesaa alaihis salaam is unique. For example, his Jasad is being sustained without Ta'am (food) for the past 2 millennia despite the rule in the Quraan that a human Jasad cannot sustain without eating. Then you also believe that the deceased have been raised back to life prematurely before Qiyamah. In fact this is what Mawdudi himself said:

“It is certainly of no avail at this juncture to open the debate as to whether the Holy Christ is dead or exists alive somewhere in the world. Supposing he is dead, God has the power to raise him alive, otherwise also it is not beyond the Divine power of God to keep a man alive somewhere in the cosmos for as long as thousands of years; and to bring the man back to the world at His Will.”

Therefore it is quite inconsistent to say that Eesaa alaihis salam is alive in his body in Heaven just because there are Ahadith about him descending. The Ahadeeth about him descending from Heaven are nowhere to be found in the Sihhah as Sitta, but at most 1 or 2 isolated Ahadeeth from Musnad al Bazaar and Baihaqi's Asmaa was Siffaat. Otherwise there is no mention of this in the Sahihayn, which only speaks of descent. So your belief in descent from sky is resting on not a very strong foundation.

Ibn Arabi believed Eesaa alaihis salaam would descend in a new body

There was a sect of Muslims who believed the second coming of Eesaa alaihis salaam refers to the coming of someone who resembles him (centuries before the "Qadiyanis")

[ZulFiqar]

I am not at all denying that Allah is above His Throne, above the Heavens, and that He is distinct from His creation. But by saying that Eesaa alaihis salaam was raised up to the sky in his Jasad in order to go to Allah you are questioning the المعيّة "Ma'iyya" or "withness" of Allah.

So as Ibn Taymiyya has explained, the truth is to combine in one's creed both the belief that Allah is above us, His Uluww (highness), and that Allah is with us, His Ma'iyyah. They are two aspects of Allah's existence, His transcendence and His imminence respectively.

The Holy Qur'an teaches us that it is not physical bodies that ascend to Him, but rather the Angels and the Spirit:

تَعْرُجُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ وَالرُّوحُ إِلَيْهِ فِي يَوْمٍ كَانَ مِقْدَارُهُ خَمْسِينَ أَلْفَ سَنَةٍ
The Angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a Day the measure whereof is fifty thousand years (Sura 70:4)