Challenged Issued to Shiachatters

[Farid]

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235030534-debate-on-imamah-on-shiachat/

Discuss.

[Khaled]

Prediction: The debate will go on a while until it becomes clear the Shi'i debater can't win, so the moderator will close the thread because "its a useless debate."

[Farid]

Hahah, I hope that isn't the case brother Khaled.

I appreciate brother Tawheed313's post. Truly, it is importantly for someone knowledgeable to represent the Shia side. I am not looking forward to debate a weak opponent.

May Allah guide us all.

[Khaled]

I think that StrugglingForTheLight doesn't really represent mainstream shi'a views; although I suppose those issues don't have much to do with proving Imamh.

[Khaled]

Farid never yields. When he got cornered once and by a Quranic verse, his response was "Well even Quranic verses have isnad." Then he is devoid of honesty. I believe that if he is shown even the Loh-e-mehfuz he will not change his ways. Being a Rijalist he will ask for the isnad of it. So it will be boring and pointless debating him.

Shots fired...

I love how being a "Rijalist" is a bad thing on that site.  If you read the posts from 10 years ago that wasn't the case, but they change their tune after losing a certain debate and realize they literally have nothing when it comes to Ilm ar-Rijaal.

[Invoker]

I wont recommend farid to debate with struggling because of his extremely irrelevant arguments entirely based on qiyas which hardly anyone can understand. He will keep running around circles & drive you crazy, besides he has no idea of sunni sources & their reliability.

[Farid]

Looks like moderator Haydar Husayn is against the idea of having a debate because debates haven't solved the Sunni-Shia divide. That is one of the reasons he mentions anyways...

Looks like some of them are trying to change the topic to a debate on attributes. If I wanted that, I would have challenged an Ash'ari perhaps.

[Furkan]

Let's not insult them from our side. Let's wait until a shia rijali shows up

[Ibn Yahya]

Let's not insult them from our side. Let's wait until a shia rijali shows up

Rijalis don't really follow traditional Shi'i Hadith Sciences. I remember when I was a Rafidi me and a bunch of other Buddies used to hate Internet rijalis. The Shi'ah Hadith science is to only look at the Chain if it's Fiqh because otherwise all the Ahadith about Karbala would be Dha'if

[Ibn Yahya]

We also used to hate ShiaChat. To us it was like the Tumblr of Shi'ism. We used to nickname it "BatriChat", I honestly doubt you'd find many people there who actually know what they're talking about.

[Farid]

^ Regardless of the level of knowledge of the average Shiachatter. I have high hopes that there will be benefit from a dialogue like this one, to at least a few readers.

[Farid]

Here are a couple of answers to questions I've seen brought up on SC.

Q: Why Sunni sources?

A: To shatter the illusion that the Imamah of the Twelve can be proven through Sunni sources. It simply cannot be proven.

Q: Allah will judge others who have not accepted Islam for sticking to their own sources. Can’t any non-Muslim say this?

A: A Christian will not be able to use a corrupted Bible in his defence on the Day of Judgement. No such effort has been put to preserving the words of a prophet as the Sunni hadith system, and whoever believes otherwise is delusional.

Q: Why not debate on another matter?

A: I don't mind debating on other issues. However, the debate has been issued over this specific one right now. If the mods do not endorse anyone to debate this issue, it should be well known that the mods do not believe that Shias can prove this point.

Q: How about debating the attributes of Allah?

A: That debate is not exclusive to Sunnis and Shias, and Sunnis disagree amongst themselves on how the attributes should be understood. If I was to be convinced by the Shia debater, I would still become an Ash'ari Sunni.

Q: Why not come to Shiachat, make a thread, and debate whomever you want?

A: Last time I debated Wasil, he started doing so bad that Shias called it a set-up, and started saying that the debate was rigged. I am not making that mistake again. Two moderators will have to endorse the debate. I am not wasting my time debating "fake Shias". Once again, I am hoping for a good opponent that provides strong arguments.

[matpau_83]

Q: Why not come to Shiachat, make a thread, and debate whomever you want?

A: Last time I debated Wasil, he started doing so bad that Shias called it a set-up, and started saying that the debate was rigged. I am not making that mistake again. Two moderators will have to endorse the debate. I am not wasting my time debating "fake Shias". Once again, I am hoping for a good opponent that provides strong arguments.

Assalamualaikum brother Farid,
is there any link for this debate with this Wasil guys?

[Husayn]

Here you go akhi:

http://islamic-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=14843

Warning: It is a very long thread, and wasil's poor akhlaaq will start to irritate you after a while.

[matpau_83]

Here you go akhi:

http://islamic-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=14843

Warning: It is a very long thread, and wasil's poor akhlaaq will start to irritate you after a while.

syukran, no biggie there. Only Nader earns my respect..

[Optimus Prime]

I agree with some of users there.

Brother Farid, if you really to debate someone there and there is a person willing then make hijrah to their e-shore and get the ball rolling.

That user (Link) has signed up here, but I say debate them on SC.

[Farid]

The wise brother and Shiachat moderator Mohammed Ali sarcastically said:

I want Farid to debate me on the merits of Muawiyah [la] from shi'a sources. I hope he has the bravery to do this.

This brother gets the idea. He knows that this debate as well as proving the Imamah of the Twelve from Sunni sources are both impossible. That is my exact point. Shias should not be jumping up and down thinking that they can debate an issue that cannot be won.

I firmly state that it is impossible to provide merits for Mu'awiyah from Shia books. Has my faith been shaken? Will I lose some sleep? Of course not. My deen does not revolve around Mu'awiyah having merits upon the tongues of an infallible.


Any Sunni that would attempt to debate such a matter would receive a swift smack to the back of the head, from yours truly.

I expect Shias to do the same. They should say: No, this cannot be proven from Sunni hadiths, however, what we have in our hadith library is a hujjah upon you!

Inshallah soon the other Shias on Shiachat will realize that this is a case and start to accept reality.

[Link]

The best that can be done out of this, is shown interpretation of the words of the Prophet (saw) or Allah's (swt) are that are agreed upon to be stated. Different interpretations can be discussed, why one believes in one interpretation over the other, and then the issue of what interpretation is the right one and manifest one, will be left to people to judge.

Even Khatamal Anbiya can be interpreted as other then Mohammad (saw) being the last Prophet in Quran, it doesn't mean the Quran doesn't clearly state that Mohammad (saw) is the last Prophet.

Just because something can be interpreted in different way, doesn't imply there isn't a manifest meaning. And I think the discussion should be on what is the meaning of words of agreed upon words of guidance.

[sameer]

3 pages gone, you can find lot of excuses, trying their best to derail the thread but fail to nominate a single "knowledgeable imami" for the challenge, i thnk if bro farid mention the name of an "imami" debater to whom he considers the best in "knowledge" , this will at least give them hope nd save the time for us to read their non sense posts..

[Al Dukhan]

MashaAllah @link, can it also be interpreted for khatamul imam i.e 12th ! Plz enlighten a fool like me.
Shukran