TwelverShia.net Forum

Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Imamah-Ghaybah => Topic started by: Hani on September 10, 2014, 05:44:23 PM

Title: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 10, 2014, 05:44:23 PM
al-Salamu `Aleykum,


The brothers may Allah reward them nominated me to debate the Shia of "ShiaChat" on the topic of Ghadeer, to be more precise to determine the answer to this question:


IS THE HADITH OF GHADEER A DECLARATION OF THE LEADERSHIP OF `ALI?


OR


WAS `ALI APPOINTED AS SUCCESSOR AND LEADER BY MUHAMMAD (saw) AT GHADEER?


We opened the topic on ShiaChat here:
http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235025239-debate-on-ghadeer-invitation-to-shia/


And in this thread we'll try to negotiate and reason with the Shia in order to make this debate happen.



Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 10, 2014, 05:47:53 PM
First Shia post was by "PureEthics", he said:



Quote
Oh boy, here they come again -___- oh but wait the "venue" LOL is in their site, even though this site is available and moderated much better, and they want to debate us? O_o


I disagree that SC is better moderated, but to you is your opinion.


We've invited you to debate on our forum, you are our guests, it is very rude to refuse an invitation bro.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 10, 2014, 06:01:53 PM
Second Shia posted is called "S.M.H.A." he asks many questions that are not exactly relevant to the event of Ghadeer, he asks:


Quote
1 ) Are you a Muslims (Y/N)
2) Four school of sunni thoughts: Which one- if none of the four - which one-name will suffice.
3) Are you a Quranist?(Y/N)
 
4) Is Prophet Muhammad(pbuhahp): Infallible (no error/no sin/no mistake): (Y/N)
      If no, explain your understanding.
 
5) Was the Quran compiled during the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad(pbuhahp): (Y/N)
    5a) If No why not and when was it compiled and by whom?
 
6) Did the Prophet Muhammad(pbhahp) announce a successor:(Y/N)
  6a) If no, did he gave direction as to which method should be used to select one:(Y/N)
   If 6a is yes, which method.


We answer:


1) Yes.
2) Shafi`i.
3) No.


This is as far as personal information about me is concerned and I have written it for your convenience, as for the rest it is all of topic.


Our discuss is with regards to Ghadeer, are the words uttered at Ghadeer a declaration of `Ali's leadership or not? This is answered in the debate not here.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 10, 2014, 06:03:21 PM
Shia member "mesbah" says:


Quote
Salaam
This is an invitation to all sunnis (whether knowledgeable or not) to debate me on the topic of saqifa.
Chill out!


This is not your thread then since you're talking about something completely different, go open a thread on any Sunni forum you like and invite them.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 10, 2014, 06:11:42 PM
S.M.H.A. Says:



Quote

Here is a suggestion, you or Br. Hani may be concerned with fews things. Why don’t you request to have the debate moderated here, you or he can suggest a topic- more knowledgeable members might take him or you on the offer, restrict it to the member who accepted the debate so it don’t get too messy by everyone contributing to it, agree on a set of rule to govern the debate.


But we invited you to our website, this is like someone inviting you into his house, it's quite rude to refuse.


As for rules, any academic person knows the rules of a good debate, my rule is for the opponent to fear Allah, your understanding is enough.



Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 10, 2014, 06:13:33 PM
"skamran110" Said:


Quote
Why do not you open a thread here and ask br hani to join it?
Why some one should go to nasibi website? I do not understand your intentions br.
 
Regards


We're not Nasibi, where'd you see us showing hatred for Bani Hashim? And if you think we're "Nasibi" why are you calling me "Br Hani" I shouldn't be your brother if I am a Nasibi right? Or are your brothers Nawasib?

Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 10, 2014, 08:09:20 PM
Shia member "power" says:



Quote
Sunnis have a serious problem with justifying their own concept of "RIGHTLY GUIDED CALIPHS" How the hell are they going to refute Ghadeer?


Accept our invitation for a discussion on Hadith al-Ghadeer then you'll find out how InshaAllah.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 10, 2014, 09:33:51 PM
Fearful Shia member "PureEthics" says:



Quote
LOL You must be crazy to think we will go to another website (wahabi) just to check the guys comments. If he is lazy enough to request a debate and make us go on his website to check his comments, and discuss the debate there, then the debate all ready is pointless and will be pointless.


We sense a lot of fear in your replies always bro "PureEthics", this is only an internet forum, we already have Shia members, no one is going to eat you.


Is clicking on an internet link really this hard? Or is it fear?

Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hadrami on September 11, 2014, 07:30:58 AM
First Shia post was by "PureEthics", he said:



Quote
Oh boy, here they come again -___- oh but wait the "venue" LOL is in their site, even though this site is available and moderated much better, and they want to debate us? O_o


I disagree that SC is better moderated, but to you is your opinion.


We've invited you to debate on our forum, you are our guests, it is very rude to refuse an invitation bro.

Better moderated? I think this Pureguy meant if shia cant answer at least we moderate (aka ban) this sunni. Thats what it means. A shia insulted khalifa only got his comment edited while a sunni questioned why an ayatulla cant recite properly got banned straight away. That's what this shia mean when he said "moderated much better".

It just show how reluctant this Pureguy is for an open uncensored debate
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 11, 2014, 10:28:17 AM
SHia member "Ratohnhaketon" says that we can do the following things instead of debating Ghadeer:


Quote
- Read Qur'an
- Read a book
- Watch a movie
- Spend time with family
- Pray, make dua, meditate
- Watch paint dry
- Etc.


Aha, okay then go watch a movie and stop posting in the thread as you're clearly not qualified, I'd refuse to debate you even if you accepted.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 11, 2014, 10:30:43 AM
Shia member "syed_shia" says:



Quote
I would be happy to do this with the following conditions
 
-it has to be in this forum.


Okay how about you write on your forum and we write on our forum? We'll have two threads, each on a forum, you write there and I'll write here.


I accept if you do.
 
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 11, 2014, 10:34:16 AM
Shia member insearchoflight says:



Quote
First sign of why someone shouldn't engage with a person who's obstinate to even not agree to venue, sends messengers to invite, teaches internet is just a click but practices not, fears preconditions by calling them off topic and projects rejections as fears to intimidate. Nice try!


I tend to think that the fearful ones are usually not those who challenge others to debates, rather those who'd rather watch paint dry in their bedrooms then step up and debate. Also you're the ones who do not agree to the venue not me.


I already agreed that I can post here and you can post there, so half of the debate is here and the other half is on SC.

Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 11, 2014, 10:39:08 AM
SHia member says in post #23:



Quote
See the list I made for better things to do than to get offended that Shias or anyone else don't want to waste their time to 'challenges' as though this nothing more than a crusade against this forum or the people in it. The man is rude anyway, trying to provoke people by quoting them on the opposing forum rather than simply asking questions here. This isn't how Muslims should act nor debate rendering the debate useless to anyone who engages in it except to satisfy the intellectually cannibalistic urges of the members of that forum that wish turn Islam into a football match.


Ah sorry I'm rude!? That's your weakest excuse yet, we have been most polite dear. If you want rudeness read the comments on ShiaChat, such as:


"no need to feed the trolls."


"help him dare to register"


"Watch paint dry"


"LOL You must be crazy to think we will go to another website (wahabi)"


"How the hell are they going to refute Ghadeer?"


And many more,


This is rude my brother, my friendly invitation is not rude.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 11, 2014, 12:16:06 PM
We decided not to waste too much time, we've already presented a middle solution, no reply until this moment, so we say:


THE DEBATE CHALLENGE WILL EXPIRE IN 48 HOURS
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 11, 2014, 02:45:17 PM
A Shi`ee called mesbah asked these questions which are off topic and have nothing to do with the thread and Saqifah altogether, questions that have been refuted so many times while he brought nothing new to the mix.



What makes saqifa legitimate?


What makes any gathering legitimate, are you saying we're not allowed to gather and discuss matters of common concern with fellow Muslims?


A group of elites discussed a matter, the majority later agreed and obeyed their decision without any form of Fitnah, may Allah reward them.


Why everyone rushed to it? Why did they leave the body of their beloved Prophet (s)?


Not everyone rushed to it, only a few folks rushed to it, you can count them on the fingers of your hands. It's a good thing they rushed to it, otherwise a Fitnah would have taken place and the Muslims would have been split between those who gave Bay`ah to the Ansar and those who gave Bay`ah to the Mouhajiroun.


So may Allah reward them again.


Why some sahaba including Amir al-Mu'minin refused to give allegiance?


He did give allegiance, whether you want to believe before or after six month is your own issue but the end result is the same.


As for reasons he did not participate much in the first months, they are


Main reason: Banu Hashim were not consulted and they thought they had a right to it by means of nearness to Rasul-Allah (saw).


Secondary reason: The disagreement on the interpretation of the Prophet's (saw) words regarding inheritance.


Why the second caliph stoped Prophet (s) from writing his final will which would have saved the Umma from Misguidance?


His "will"? what "will" is this? No one said it was a "will".


As for WHY, Well because the Prophet (saw) was sick and in pain, so it is better if he does so when his condition is better after some rest.


Why some people refused to obey the Prophet (s) and join the army of Usama?


I thought the believers made sure that Usama's army was dispatched and they did what they were ordered.


Why the second caliph threatened people not to spread the news of the death of the Prophet (s)


Because he was in a state of shock and disbelief.


NOTE: I will not bother to go further than this, as I said do NOT attempt to change the topic at hand, that is really unprofessional.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 11, 2014, 02:50:30 PM
SC member mahdi servant.01 says:


Quote
Very funny! you work as a secretory for @Hani??
Isn't it you except with other name ?


So either he is my secretary or he's me?


Think harder maybe there's some other obvious possibilities bro.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 11, 2014, 02:51:53 PM
D3v1L says:


Quote
Abdul : Are you Hani's servant? or do both of you share a delusion.
 
If Hani wants to debate, come here, register and debate. This is the internet, not the land of kings and emissaries.
 
The debate expired when you opened the thread.


Rather your pride expired when the thread was opened.

As for brother Abul Hussain Hassani from SC, He is my Mawla!
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 11, 2014, 02:53:47 PM
As we said, the challenge will expire the day after tomorrow, so make sure whatever member you get before then has some real solid knowledge of Arabic as he'll need it.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Ebn Hussein on September 11, 2014, 03:15:29 PM
Unbelievable how scared they are. The Kha2ef, pardon I mean Qa'im dude says we are trolling! Dude, this website is already one of the number one sources for every Sunni who wants to demolish your sect (and it's getting bigger every day, check google). Hani invited them to debate and they say let's debate on Shiachat! Well Hani asked first and invited you, he is brave enough to debate you on a topic which you claim is the most clearest Shia proof for the Imamah (read Khurafa) of of their first infallible i.e. it should be the easiest task for them lot to refute any Sunni on this topic ... of course they know it is not easy and any knowledgable Sunni can disprove their whole fairy tales and distortion of the Ghadir event, hence they try their best to avoid it (watch Arab channels how Shia scholars run away from debates, it's like them having a marathon).

The other dude, BatiniEthics calls this forum a Wahhabi one. Rafidis call every Sunni who is able to refute their religion a Nasibi and Wahhabi, nothing new here. Then there is another one who thinks he is very smart and asks why they shall debate on a Nasibi forum. It's like us being invited by the Shias first and then we act as scared as them and ask why shall we debate on a Rafidi Majoosi forum. These are nothing but lame excuses to find a way to avoid a debate. Come on, is there no brave Shia amongst you? Can't you destroy Sunnism on their forums by proving your Rafidi narrative of Ghadir to be true? Is it so hard? This forum already proved that it can host a debate, nobody interfers in the thread it's just between the debater of your choice and our debater.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Taha on September 11, 2014, 05:09:19 PM
Quote from: PureEthics
even though this site is available and moderated much better, and they want to debate us

(http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/255/e/8/lol_meme_emoticon_style__by_ugoyak-d5ehrm3.png)

ShiaChat is the worst moderated forum I've seen. It used to be slightly better but it never was great. It all went downhill when Muhammed Ali person became moderator. He is the worst. I thought it would improve when Haydar Husayn & Qa'im became moderators but no improvement yet ... ShiaChat has a problem of selectively implementing rules. What is ok for one person is against the rules for the next.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Ebn Hussein on September 11, 2014, 07:27:44 PM
^Now they will accuse you of being a:

"Wahhabi-Salafi-Nasibi-Yazidi-Marwani-Bakri-Omari-Unicorn-boogeyman" etc.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Taha on September 11, 2014, 08:02:26 PM
Wahhabi-Salafi-Nasibi-Yazidi-Marwani-Bakri-Omari-Unicorn-boogeyman?  :o

Well, I can't be one of the first seven, but unicorn boogeyman sounds exciting.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 11, 2014, 10:28:54 PM
A Shia called Pokemon said in post #36:

Quote
The problem with all of this is, of course, he will only take material from this thread he can use to make Shias look bad as in feed the prejudice present among pseudo-scholar Sunnis and their followers and cheerleaders who are more preoccupied with the activities of other Muslims than with the list I made which the brother scoffed at, as though reading Qur'an or watching a documentary etc. were not meaningful activities. He claims if I don't have hours, days, or weeks to 'debate' him, therefore I shouldn't comment on this thread, this illogical point is enough to see why debate is nonsense, having a few minutes to comment on one thread doesn't translate to having hours to sit down for this debate and to say I cannot comment on the problems with this debate is unreasonable as well.

It is especially troublesome considering they openly mock Shias on a regular basis in their threads. Why would anyone engage them? I should remind the members we also should not laugh at them: "O you who believe! let not (one) people laugh at (another) people perchance they may be better than they, nor let women (laugh) at (other) women, perchance they may be better than they; and do not find fault with your own people nor call one another by nicknames; evil is a bad name after faith, and whoever does not turn, these it is that are the unjust." (49:11)
[/size]
Yet you keep bumping the thread which makes you look bad...As for your contribution which you claim is meaningful, maybe you forgot that it contains "watching movies" (which you placed before prayer) and "watching paint dry"...


So either accept our challenge or take your own meaningful advice and look at a wall, in your case the mirror.

Then you say that "Shia are often mocked" on our forum and thus we are not worth the time and the attention, I challenge you to count the number of times the Shia were mocked in here VS the number of times the Sunnies were mocked on ShiaChat, where your likes thrive..

Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Taha on September 11, 2014, 11:16:33 PM
Then you say that "Shia are often mocked" on our forum and thus we are not worth the time and the attention, I challenge you to count the number of times the Shia were mocked in here VS the number of times the Sunnies were mocked on ShiaChat, where your likes thrive..

This is true.  One of the rules on SC is against cursing the first 3 and the wives.  So people can't say, for example, "bar `Umar la`nat beshumar".  However, they do try to humiliate him as much as they can.  To me it is double standards.  Taqiyyah is not to always be used.  I have no problem talking about cursing, tahrif, muta, etc.  It's very dishonest to disallow cursing somebody but to allow people to humiliate and speak disparagingly and sarcastically of him.  Another example of how SC is badly moderated-- some is allowed and some isn't.  They need to make up their minds and moderate evenly.  What is against the rules for one person should be against the rules for all.  And either allow cursing or don't-- this middle ground is stupid.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Taha on September 12, 2014, 01:08:24 AM
Quote from: Ratohnhaketon/Pokemon
The other problem with debating there is the brother doesn't read properly he acts as though I only addressed their forum in terms of the mocking that goes on in these debates, which is a childish excuse anyway I don't recall other people doing something suddenly allows you to commit wrongdoing. He also acts as though my list was in a specific order, there was no order order would need numbers, nitpicking. He also claims this thread makes Shias look bad, no, individuals make themselves look bad, it is you and your people who attempt to paint broad pictures much like some Christians I have met when they do so for Muslims as a whole.

Actually, most of us Shias are very good at this type of thing too.  A Sunni brings up the issue of tahrif and the Shia response is "look at all these Sunni scholars that believed it too!"  The same with many other issues.  So yes, when Shias mock everything Sunnis do and say, it does somewhat justify their doing the same back to us.  We should stop our bad behavior before trying to stop others from theirs.

As to your list, he was pointing out that you thought it was a great contribution and how silly he thought it was.  The point of the order was only mentioned as an afterthought.

I'm sure Hani can speak for himself (lest someone accuse me, a Shia, of being his secretary too.  (http://www.shiachat.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/mellow.png)
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 12, 2014, 02:12:50 PM
Mr. Respectable Loving Ratohnhaketon,


Please I beg of you, either accept or leave us adults to figure out our own business, we normally don't waste time on your likes.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 12, 2014, 02:16:00 PM
@Abu Tufayl,


You said:

Quote
This is a "debate challenge" coming from the people whom amongst them are those who would deny Imam `Ali [as]'s right even if "mawla" meant master with their excuse being "it didn't say khalifa." What silly people they are...


You can't even prove it means Master, come and debate.

Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 12, 2014, 02:24:18 PM
@Jaabir ibn Hayyan,


You do realize that there is no such evidence of "Jabir ibn Hayyan" being even remotely related to your Imams, read a refutation on this:
http://www.dd-sunnah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=169806


You can keep believing in your myths and calling other people "kids", it won't harm us one bit.



Quote
As for this "challenge" these clowns have set to expire tomorrow (first time hearing a debate challenge having an expiry date attached to it like food or something), expect them to plan a parade and start celebrating their "victory" over the "majoos/rawafidh/mushrikeen" in the next few days.


The expiration is a way to get you folks to step up and debate, not to sleep and let the thread die out. As for parading, I'm sure you remember our challenge to you on Tahreef-ul-Qur'an, none of you guys accepted, you closed the thread, no one celebrated...
http://forum.twelvershia.net/quran-tafseer/debate-on-tahrif-al-quran-between-shia-sunni/30/


Where do you see us celebrating ya myth-believer?



Quote

By the way, these clowns got fed-up with the old terrorist-run website they used to frequent because it kept going down, now they've started a new forum. Just goes to show how desperate they are.




So if we get bothered by technical issues related to web servers we become clowns? No wonder you believe in `Ali's (ra) Imamah, you're not intelligent.



Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 12, 2014, 02:28:30 PM
Ameen (who could be Lebanese) says:


Quote
Oooh! A challenge. Sounds exciting. Must have missed out on quite a bit. Why don't you just start off from the very begining. Did the Prophet (pbuh) name his successor??? Did he appoint anyone to govern after him??? If yes, then who??? If no, then did the Prophet (pbuh) give any indication of how the Muslims should be governed and how affairs of the Muslims should be handled after him???


Dear brother, I don't want to debate any of the matters you mentioned above, my topic is VERY limited, Hadith-ul-Ghadeer, and specifically "Man Kuntu Mawlahu", either this is an evidence for the appointment of `Ali (ra) and the Shia should keep using it, OR IT ISN'T EVIDENCE.


Of course based on the Manhaj of the scholars of Islam, who ALL agree that evidence must be clear and explicit.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 12, 2014, 02:38:25 PM
@ IbnSohan, post #42,



Quote
Circus.
You should admit that you are losing the battle today. Shiaism is growing and spreading in Africa, east Asia and Western world which is your newer headquarters.
The reason is simple : These nobel Hadiths of Ghadir and Thaqalyin were hidden for centuries from the Sunnis.


Ah circus? Welcome to the circus then brother Ibn Sohan.


And yes we know that Shiasm grows in areas of deep ignorance and poverty, just like Christianity. I'll tell you where Shiasm doesn't grow, in gatherings of knowledge and intellect such as this forum right here.


As for Ghadeer and Thaqalayn being hidden, I wonder what universe you live in, I thought they were Mutawatir and widespread according to you? Suddenly now they're hidden? Almost every single book of Hadith and Sharh and `Aqeedah contain both the narrations you mentioned, and our scholars like al-Dhahabi wrote entire books just to gather the chains of Ghadeer.



Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Nader Zaveri on September 12, 2014, 04:00:37 PM
Assalaamu `Alaykum,

Brother Hani, if it seems like they are opposed to coming on this forum to debate, why not go on their forums and request the debate. Make sure it is 1-on-1 and no one can reply except you and the other user. And ask the same 1 hadith rule, etc. That way there can be no other "Excuses" or "reasons" they can bring out.

Wa `Alaykum Assalaam
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Ebn Hussein on September 12, 2014, 06:00:11 PM
@ IbnSohan, post #42,

Quote
Circus.
You should admit that you are losing the battle today. Shiaism is growing and spreading in Africa, east Asia and Western world which is your newer headquarters.
The reason is simple : These nobel Hadiths of Ghadir and Thaqalyin were hidden for centuries from the Sunnis.


Ah circus? Welcome to the circus then brother Ibn Sohan.


And yes we know that Shiasm grows in areas of deep ignorance and poverty, just like Christianity. I'll tell you where Shiasm doesn't grow, in gatherings of knowledge and intellect such as this forum right here.


As for Ghadeer and Thaqalayn being hidden, I wonder what universe you live in, I thought they were Mutawatir and widespread according to you? Suddenly now they're hidden? Almost every single book of Hadith and Sharh and `Aqeedah contain both the narrations you mentioned, and our scholars like al-Dhahabi wrote entire books just to gather the chains of Ghadeer.

What a big fat lie! Shi'ism is growing in the most deprived areas where the BIGGEST JAHL AND ZANDAQAH exist (guess why ...), areas such as west Africa where African brothers themselves told me that Sufism and Voodoo cults are mixed! No wonder Shias convert some freaks to their filthy Mushrik beliefs. As for the western world, then this is just a bad joke right? 99% of converts except Islam and Sunnah not Kufr (Rafidism), I mean what mentally healthy former Catholic would leave Ya Jesus/Mary/Saint x,y,z for Ya Ali/Fatimah/Imams etc. anyway? Exactly, only a die-hard Mushrik, not a sincere revert:

MMuXw

As for East-Asia, then again I've met numerous East-Asian (some on this board) and they too confirm that only the most extreme Sufis (Semi-Rafidis) accept Shi'ism, no real Sunni would replace Tawheed with kufr, never (also Shias used to have much freedom in east Asia, while Al-Azhar is not allowed to operate ANYWHERE, not even in Sunni areas of Iran, the Rafidah of Iran have built a Shia HAWZA in the Sunni stronghold and Capital of Malaysia! Alhamdulillah the Malaysian gov. is chasing them just as Sudan is, after all why shall Shias have the right to do propaganda in our strongholds if we are not allowed to the the same inside Iran?)

As for "headquarters", It seems the Rafidah are missing out what is going on in their very fortress:

http://forum.twelvershia.net/general-sunni-vs-shia/the-rise-of-the-sunnais-ex-shias-(video)/msg445/#new

Shi'ism is dying out in its fortress Alhamdulillah, the internet is breaking it's neck ribs, all good and sincere Shias are accepting Tawheed and Sunnah, alhamdulillah.

Hani, forget about it, they are scared, they know nothing has been hidden, for flips sake the Ghadir narration is in OUR books in our MAJOR book Sahih Muslim our books have been translated for DECADES into other languages (unlike Shias who are scared to translate a SINGLE Tafsir book, well I'd be ashamed as well, it's full of batiniyyah and lunacy), the likes of Imam Al-Nawawi have written SHARH on Sahih Muslim (and the Ghadir hadith) our youth have exposed the Ghadir lie with evidence from the Ahlul-Bayt themselves:

http://forum.twelvershia.net/general-sunni-vs-shia/the-rafidi-narrative-of-ghadir-khumm-as-weak-and-shallow-as-the-rafidi-deen/

Heck they own scholars said the Ghadir incident is not a strong dalil:

http://gift2shias.com/2012/05/14/nass-on-imamah-sharif-al-murtada/

... yet these people have the audacity to claim that anything has been hidden! Wallah nothing has been hidden (except the useless 3aj 3aj serdab dweller), the truth has been hidden from the Shias this is why even their experts are scared to debate (look how scared they are of Hani, they know he's a big gun and he will destroy their Ghadir myth). Shias should stop dreaming and smelling the Turban or at least come to debate, we will show you how weak and shallow your Ghadir myth is, Ghadir has nothing got to do with leadership, none of the Ahlul-Bayt ever believed so and neither do we and we will disbelief in this till the day of Judgement.

Oh, as for Al-Thaqalayn, that one too has been distorted by Shias, every Sunni talib can refute it, like on this beautiful blog (wonder how he found a "hidden" narration, lol):

http://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2011/01/31/explanation-of-hadith-ath-thaqalayn/
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 12, 2014, 07:20:57 PM
Assalaamu `Alaykum,

Brother Hani, if it seems like they are opposed to coming on this forum to debate, why not go on their forums and request the debate. Make sure it is 1-on-1 and no one can reply except you and the other user. And ask the same 1 hadith rule, etc. That way there can be no other "Excuses" or "reasons" they can bring out.

Wa `Alaykum Assalaam


I already proposed to them that the Shia can post on SC and I post my replies here, I won't spoil them more than this, it is already clear what the situation is.


I also had two accounts there in the past, both of which do not work last I checked, I won't grace them with a third one.


wa `Aleykum al-Salam,
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Nader Zaveri on September 12, 2014, 08:41:36 PM
Assalaamu `Alaykum,

How are your accounts not able to work? Forgot password? Does it say it is not working? I am sure the Admins can enable your account.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hadrami on September 12, 2014, 10:08:07 PM
Assalaamu `Alaykum,

How are your accounts not able to work? Forgot password? Does it say it is not working? I am sure the Admins can enable your account.

i've seen a shia insulted the khulafa and his comment was only edited, but on the same thread a sunni wrote about an ayatula with really bad recitation and that sunni was banned straightaway. Reason: insulting shia scholars. It's a double standard forum, not a good place for fair uncensored debate.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 12, 2014, 10:33:28 PM
Assalaamu `Alaykum,

How are your accounts not able to work? Forgot password? Does it say it is not working? I am sure the Admins can enable your account.


One old account was stopped for no reason, so I made another one and after a while they began telling me that my posts need moderation before they appear, which greatly annoyed me and made me lose interest in their entire forum, then after a while I tried to use it and now it gives me this message:


Sorry, you don't have permission for that!
You have been restricted from posting on this community.

Anyway, I have absolutely no interest in joining that forum anymore, we are challenging them to come debate, either they come or they cower in fear as is the habit.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Ebn Hussein on September 12, 2014, 11:46:57 PM
They say Omar the one who apparently broke some ribs (and dragged their first deity like a poodle through Madinah: http://gift2shias.com/2012/12/26/omars-poodle-ali-ibn-abi-talib-its-a-rafidhis-world/) was a coward, well found out that is actually them who believe in a hidden coward who is hides due to FEAR his of being slaughtered like a lamb and now his followers are following his Sunnah by going into "Ghaybat-E-Soghraa" (or is it already the "Kobraa" one?).

I mean come on m8, what's the matter? You are after all challenged by a known Sunni online who runs one (in fact the most notorious) Anti-Rafidi board on the net (in English language), filled with academical articles, shredding Tashayyu3 into pieces. Apparently the (Rafidi) Ghadir narrative is so convincing and true that every Rafidi kid can refute a Sunni Mufti, so COME ON, bring it on and we will show you how you Rawafid have misguided MILLIONS of Shias for centuries with the Ghadir lie, one of the biggest lie of history i.e. "Ali's appointment as the political and spiritual leader of the Ummah, right after its Prophet."

Ya Latif, folks, if you all knew Arabic you would know why no Sunni scholars takes a Rafidi scholar serious, they are the laughing stocks when it comes to debates, see Mustaqillah TV, see Allatyari's debates etc.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 13, 2014, 12:16:58 AM
Nader would you like to discuss this with me on Skype? Not a debate, a discussion in which you tell me what you think and I'll tell you what I think.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on September 13, 2014, 09:49:57 AM

Debate Challenge has expired.


After a two pages long thread on ShiaChat, 42 replies, more than 900 views... I wasn't disappointed as I knew that no matter how much we facilitate this matter, none of you are even qualified to step up and debate.

We've been at it for a couple of days now, and I just can't bother checking the ShiaChat thread anymore, I just hope no Casanova will suddenly appear out of thin air, claiming that he would have accepted the debate if the challenge hadn't expired, I say to him: This whole movie reel of yours is expired and burned, you're fooling no one with your mythical heroics.

As for anyone who wishes to know in detail why the text of Hadith al-Ghadeer cannot be used as evidence to prove anything, I'm willing to give you my Skype ID and explain in some detail.

wal-Salamu `Aleykum wa Rahmatullah,






Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Farid on September 14, 2014, 08:42:58 AM
I am disappointed and somewhat surprised; this is Ghadeer for crying out loud.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Taha on December 07, 2014, 12:34:38 AM
I am disappointed and somewhat surprised; this is Ghadeer for crying out loud.

السلام عليكم

My best guess is that those who would be willing to debate are not knowledgeable and those that have knowledge do not wish to debate.  Wallahu `alim.

I definitely lack knowledge, but I could always give my humble opinion on why I think that Ghadeer was so important, but I'm sure that you brothers will have good refutations.  I'll make a thread if I have time إن شاء الله

في أمان الله
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Farid on December 07, 2014, 07:48:38 AM
^ Ghadeer is a relatively limited subject. It is not like the fiqh of prayers. I mean, one can actually encompass all the knowledge that is Ghadeer related. That being the case, the knowledgeable Shi'ee should have no excuse to not want to debate, since this topic is one of the foundations of tashayyu.

It seems to me that people of either sect would rather go against someone with less knowledge in order to win a debate and prove their point. However, a debate should be only won due to the strength of the evidence, and not due to the ignorance of the opponent.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Taha on December 07, 2014, 06:32:21 PM
^ Ghadeer is a relatively limited subject. It is not like the fiqh of prayers. I mean, one can actually encompass all the knowledge that is Ghadeer related. That being the case, the knowledgeable Shi'ee should have no excuse to not want to debate, since this topic is one of the foundations of tashayyu.

It seems to me that people of either sect would rather go against someone with less knowledge in order to win a debate and prove their point. However, a debate should be only won due to the strength of the evidence, and not due to the ignorance of the opponent.

I absolutely agree with your final point. I plan on making a post about Ghadeer tomorrow ان شاء الله and we can see where that leads us.

Would you mind sharing with me if and where the event of Ghadeer is recorded in Sunni books?  I have a website with the top 7 hadeeth collections and I couldn't find Ghadeer anywhere.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Ameen on December 13, 2014, 08:30:57 PM
We decided not to waste too much time, we've already presented a middle solution, no reply until this moment, so we say:


THE DEBATE CHALLENGE WILL EXPIRE IN 48 HOURS

So has your debate challenge expired, or are you still up for it????
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Ameen on December 13, 2014, 08:33:06 PM
It looks like it has expired. It got my attention a bit late.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Hani on December 13, 2014, 08:48:16 PM
We decided not to waste too much time, we've already presented a middle solution, no reply until this moment, so we say:


THE DEBATE CHALLENGE WILL EXPIRE IN 48 HOURS

So has your debate challenge expired, or are you still up for it? ???


Very old thread bro,


Also I'm currently debating Ghadeer on Arabic forums as we speak.
Title: Re: Debate on Ghadeer between Sunni & Shia
Post by: Ameen on December 14, 2014, 12:09:26 AM
We decided not to waste too much time, we've already presented a middle solution, no reply until this moment, so we say:


THE DEBATE CHALLENGE WILL EXPIRE IN 48 HOURS

So has your debate challenge expired, or are you still up for it? ???


Very old thread bro,


Also I'm currently debating Ghadeer on Arabic forums as we speak.

No problem. You take all the time you need.