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Divine guides don't misguide people!

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Hani

Divine guides don't misguide people!
« on: June 23, 2017, 08:04:06 PM »
Peace,


Shia Fiqh is riddled with conflicting narrations, often times authentic reports conflict which has caused mass confusion among Shia clerics in terms of Fiqh as is clearly announced by the jurists in their own books.


This leads us to the following options:


A- Shia Imams are frauds who made unjust claims about infallibility then got exposed when they propagated conflicting rulings. Their followers exposed them by transmitting their contradicting verdicts.


B- Shia Imams are righteous scholars who saw nothing wrong with changing their opinions or disagreeing with their fathers. Their followers lied about infallibility and were exposed when they transmitted contradicting verdicts from them.


Let's see what you think.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Link

Re: Divine guides don't misguide people!
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2017, 06:38:07 AM »
And Jesus must be a fraud to since the deemed authentic sayings of Jesus among Christians is that he taught he was the son of God.

Or his followers lied about he being chosen and a Prophet of God!
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Link

Re: Divine guides don't misguide people!
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2017, 06:42:14 AM »
Your error in logic is often called "black and white" where you set to limit to either this or that when there are other possibilities and explanations.
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Hani

Re: Divine guides don't misguide people!
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2017, 07:44:35 AM »
And Jesus must be a fraud to since the deemed authentic sayings of Jesus among Christians is that he taught he was the son of God.

Or his followers lied about he being chosen and a Prophet of God!


Huh what? I didn't understand what you just said. You mean Jesus said he was a God? Only one of the gospels speaks about his godhood and divinity, manuscripts show early Christians not believing in this. The other gospels mention absolutely nothing about the man's divinity, refer to Bart Ehrman's books.

And Yes, a group of those who claimed to be his followers lied and attributed divinity to Jesus.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 07:48:57 AM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hani

Re: Divine guides don't misguide people!
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2017, 07:48:31 AM »
Your error in logic is often called "black and white" where you set to limit to either this or that when there are other possibilities and explanations.

Like Shareef Murtada?

Do you know the best thing about those "other possibilities"? Is that you mentioned NONE of them in your two posts!
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Farid

Re: Divine guides don't misguide people!
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2017, 09:08:16 AM »
popcorn.gif

Link

Re: Divine guides don't misguide people!
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2017, 09:39:17 AM »
It's a very simple one.

The followers of Ahlulbayt were not wrong in attributing them divine leadership and Isma, but, they didn't preserve their teachings by the system known as Rijaal nor insightfully saw the contradictions and solved them through insight nor preserved the true interpretation of Quran but followed hadiths that contradict the Quran.   They didn't take seriously the issue of light and insight and guidance, and so, we are in divisions now, playfully being lead by leaders who it doesn't beseem them to take on authority and representation of the religion but have done so.

You may say then there is no way to know the true teachings, but there is always a way, but the road to knowledge and insight is not of a lazy path by which one just chooses a person to determine truth for them or a group of people to distinguish who is truthful and who is not.

Go on Worshiping Rijaal Mess you have,  I believe in the light brought down and I believe in the family of the reminder who know what to say to give insight and teach the religion through words of wisdom when they know their lovers are in love with reflecting over the Quran!
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Hani

Re: Divine guides don't misguide people!
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2017, 07:49:39 PM »
Great, so you're agreeing with my point, the divine guides cannot misguide, so it's the fault of the followers for all those contradictions.

You see, the followers transmitted two images of these Imams: A- Divine leaders claiming infallibility B- Scholars often contradicting themselves and their fathers.

These two images conflict, the same people transmitting the claim of infallibility are also transmitting countless contradictions by those same Imams. These are not isolated cases, this is a phenomenon.

So now, you accuse the followers of not having preserved the teachings, of not transmitting the divine Qur'anic interpretations and of having been confused, misguided and lost in darkness (which resulted in today's mess).

At the same time, you wish for us to trust the narrations of infallibility transmitted by those same misguided and lost creatures but as for the rest we got to figure it out based on inspiration and God-given success?

Firstly, if this is the case of those inaccurate, misguided liars who attributed all the contradictions, I'd personally rather not trust their attribution of infallibility or divinity to those leaders in the first place. Secondly, "Fiqh" is not something you can guess based on some inspiration or enlightenment, you needed the Rijal system but you don't have it. If for example you have two conflicting narrations about the excrement of chicken and its ruling, you're not going to guess on your own as it is a very sensitive Fiqhi topic that can go either way.

All in all, you're simply saying the followers and transmitters of teachings, were unreliable, had no insight, couldn't determine authenticity, were misguided and irresponsible. Yet we need to trust them in matters of infallibility, Imamah and so forth? I'd rather not.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Link

Re: Divine guides don't misguide people!
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2017, 12:05:20 AM »
Reasoning and insight are in Quran regarding the proper creed - hadiths - help clarify the true interpretation but it requires reflection - never the less the truth is in it. The problem with Sunnis is they don't believe in Prophets in truth and through the reasoning, Quran came with to prove them or Mohammad.

They follow their creed for the same reasons of people of other religions which has nothing to do with the intention for the sake of God, Sunnis are blind haters of God's chosen ones, unfortunately.

Whether you acknowledge it or not, reflection and reasoning are the means to illuminate the truth, but you are beyond blind to the Quran, you are in opposition and mock its teachings....so I don't really expect you guys to understand.


Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Hani

Re: Divine guides don't misguide people!
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2017, 01:10:29 AM »
Alright, to sum-up your last post: Sunnies are dumb A**holes and you're the great enlightened one.

Will any other Shia on this forum address the points raised in my original post? The first Shia seems to have established that the general Shia community was unreliable, irresponsible, unenlightened, failed to preserve jurisprudence, failed to preserve Qur'anic interpretation and are now in deep state of misguidance.

Any new Shia opinions?
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hadrami

Re: Divine guides don't misguide people!
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2017, 09:38:38 AM »
- imam guide, but misguide with their taqiyya
- imam brave, but hides due to fear for his life
- rijal system is a mess, but i listen to misinformation from those messy people

You're a mess
« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 08:23:48 PM by Hani »

MuslimAnswers

Re: Divine guides don't misguide people!
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2017, 11:06:24 AM »


Administrators should see that no bad words are used, regardless of how we feel. Wa Allahu A'lam.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 08:24:10 PM by Hani »

Link

Re: Divine guides don't misguide people!
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2017, 05:27:07 AM »
The Quran talks about the issue you raised. But I know you are more vent on imposing your ignorance on it and imposing your system of rijaal on it and your scholar worship on it than actually seeing what it says.

Otherwise, it went to great detail, in fact, the whole Quran is about explaining exactly how to submit to God and how to distinguish falsehood from truth.

The fact is you don't like it answers and its emphasis and you have made a mockery of the issue of enlightenment to being nothing but grading of people on conjecture.

Not only has it explained it but it has repeated in throughout Surahs, in many, different angles, ways, and brought it all together into one discussion revolving around God's Name.

You have replaced the signs shown to people of certainty with the conjecture of opinion on who is to be relied on to and who not.

May God curse all people who turn away from the path of knowledge for the sake of their caprice and idols.
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Hani

Re: Divine guides don't misguide people!
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2017, 09:06:07 AM »
Any Shia has anything of substance to add? After insulting the entire Shia community and making them look like idiots, The guy above ran out of new things to say.

PS. If you weren't born a Twelver you'd have no clue about this Imamah of `Ali and his children even if you read the Qur'an a million times, so stop trying to make it sound like you can distinguish Fiqhi rulings that aren't even mentioned in the Qur'an.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Divine guides don't misguide people!
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2017, 09:58:20 AM »
PS. If you weren't born a Twelver you'd have no clue about this Imamah of `Ali and his children even if you read the Qur'an a million times, so stop trying to make it sound like you can distinguish Fiqhi rulings that aren't even mentioned in the Qur'an.
Bulls eye.

Hani

Re: Divine guides don't misguide people!
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2017, 06:01:56 AM »
Any other Shia who can respond? Link clearly shot himself and his sect in the leg (or head), new participants are welcome.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

 

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