Ghadeer Khum

[Husayn]

Quote,

"Taqiyyah is when a Shia person hides their true feelings, and instead adopts a cloak of sensibility and respect in order to fool people into thinking that he is a sensible and rational person",

This is exactly what certain companions did. Not everyone socialised with the Prophet (pbuh) for the right reasons.

Some companions hid their faith because they were powerless against the kuffar - such as the slaves who became Muslim and had noone to help them (in the early days). They did it for fear of torture and death - from the kuffar. And what did they hide?

La Ilaha Il Allah, Muhammadan Rasul Allah

The Shiis, instead, hide their beliefs from the Muslims. Beliefs such as - 'Aisha (ra), the wife of the Prophet (saws), is an adulterer, the Sahaba are all kuffar, and the Muslims are dirtier than pigs and apes.

Quite a difference, wouldn't you say?

Many beautiful statements as such are made by many brothers but no explanation or reference to go with it. And the same is being said about others on different sites. An ongoing story.

So tell me, if I asked you "which Sunni are you and why?" and you didn't respond but just used the Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'ath label to hide behind then, would this also be Taqiyya??? If you can't declare and introduce yourself then what would this be???

All Sunnis are of Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama'a - the people of the Sunnah, and the people of Consensus.

The Sunnah - all Sunnis follow what is agreed to be the Sunnah of Rasul Allah (saws).

The Consensus is that there are 4 methods for deriving this Sunnah - the schools of Hanafi/Maliki/Shafi'i/Hanbali.

It's not like asking - what type of Shii are you? Do you believe in 5 divine Imams or 12?

[Hadrami]

Here (I think) is Taha's very first post on this forum:

و عليكم السلام

To Nader: Thank you for those ahadith and explanation.  I had no idea that your shoulders were supposed to touch.  Usually, in my experience at Shia mosques (which isn't much-- I'm more of a pray-at-home type of person), we leave around 4-6 inches between people.  In Sunni mosques, they put their feet touching mine which, although I'm not bothered much for any hygienic reason, it makes it difficult to do the motions of prayer, especially since Sunnis fold their arms and their elbows get in the way of my hanging arms.  I will try to maybe close gaps in the future.

To Hani:  Thank you for your warm welcome.  I live in the United States.  The only time I have ever seen a very crowded masjid is during eid (for Sunni masajid).  The Shia mosques are usually crowded on the first and tenth days of Muharram but not always between those two days.  Thank you for your explanation and for relaying that hadith; it's very informative.  I don't really know much about the Sunnah except for some practices that nobody (that I know of) keeps very well (such as lengthening the beard, use of miswak, breaking fast with dates -- I do this actually, but only because I really like dates --, and some others.)

Huge difference, right?

Taqiyyah-manners.

The funny thing is, hes dumb enough to still denying it when there are written proof of his earlier posts. So hes doing taqiyah saying that hes never done taqiyah. Oh man what a religion full of BS.

[Hadrami]

You only rejected it recently - when your taqiyyah didn't convince anyone.

Whatever you say, Ya Kazzab.  I have never used taqiyyah.

Nice try, you fooled me once, but not again mr taqiya. Husayn is right, when you see your lies brings nothing & the brothers refutes your BS academically then you abandon your taqiya and going on rampage. At the moment you left 9/10 of your religion eh?

I have never used taqiyyah.  The narration of taqiyyah being 9/10 of religion isn't applicable to me.  It referred to two things:
1. Hiding the Imam (because the sunni dictator caliphs would kill him)
2. Protecting innocent life (I am not being threatened by my religion, therefore, no need to hide it).

I have noticed that Sunnis make an active habit of lying through their teeth constantly, and you have the nerve to accuse Shias of abandoning taqiyyah?  Munafiq.

so now Im a munafiq you takfiri lovers  Oh man, what happen to all that tolerant, let's respect differences of opinion and all that BS you wrote few months ago. And you still denying that what you did was taqiyah. If that wasnt taqiyah, then what happen to you??? Do you have Jekyll & Hyde syndrome or something?? 

[Hani]

So what is "Taqiyya" People keep yapping on about it but no one seems to know what it is. Any volunteers???

Here's what I think about it:
http://twelvershia.net/2014/05/29/1184/

[Hani]

Regarding Ghadeer Khum, I've decided to include a small section on it in my article found here:
http://twelvershia.net/2014/11/13/rasul-allah-saw-and-the-future-of-the-ummah/


Browse to the section where I start using colors to find a brief discussion on Ghadeer Khum.

[Taha]

Here (I think) is Taha's very first post on this forum:

[Removed for brevity]

Huge difference, right?

Taqiyyah-manners.

I didn't know taqiyyah could include manners.  It still doesn't mean I was in taqiyyah, I meant everything I said.  I was more respectful.  That isn't taqiyyah, that is me getting frustrated after being here for a while.

so now Im a munafiq you takfiri lovers    Oh man, what happen to all that tolerant, let's respect differences of opinion and all that BS you wrote few months ago. And you still denying that what you did was taqiyah. If that wasnt taqiyah, then what happen to you??? Do you have Jekyll & Hyde syndrome or something?? 

We are the takfiri lovers?  lolwut.  Anyways, I still do respect difference of opinion on matters of religion, but when you insult me, I insult you back.  Of course, I won't do this anymore because it is now against the rules.  It wasn't taqiyyah, it was good manners.

[Hadrami]

Here (I think) is Taha's very first post on this forum:

[Removed for brevity]

Huge difference, right?

Taqiyyah-manners.

I didn't know taqiyyah could include manners.  It still doesn't mean I was in taqiyyah, I meant everything I said.  I was more respectful.  That isn't taqiyyah, that is me getting frustrated after being here for a while.

so now Im a munafiq you takfiri lovers    Oh man, what happen to all that tolerant, let's respect differences of opinion and all that BS you wrote few months ago. And you still denying that what you did was taqiyah. If that wasnt taqiyah, then what happen to you??? Do you have Jekyll & Hyde syndrome or something?? 

We are the takfiri lovers?  lolwut.  Anyways, I still do respect difference of opinion on matters of religion, but when you insult me, I insult you back.  Of course, I won't do this anymore because it is now against the rules.  It wasn't taqiyyah, it was good manners.

Yeah give all the excuses you want, its too obvious that your a takfiri lovers whose religion & scholars have been making takfir of almost everyone loved by Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam for centuries. [Edited by mod]

[Hani]

The forum rules will be implemented in the next couple of hours and we will begin adding harsh regulations as needed.


The next rule will discuss going off-topic in threads, so you guys better get used to sticking to the original topic of the thread.

[Taha]

Yeah give all the excuses you want, its too obvious that your a takfiri lovers whose religion & scholars have been making takfir of almost everyone loved by Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam for centuries. [Edited by mod]

Not all Shias make takfeer on the first 3, some believe they were simply mistaken/misguided. 


Personally, I do make takfeer on them.  But that doesn't really mean a whole lot.  Just one man's opinion.  Anyways, I wouldn't kill them, but they certainly would kill disbelievers (see Ridda wars)

[Ameen]

Quote,

"Some companions hid their faith because they were powerless against the kuffar and had none to help them (in the early days). They did it for fear of torture and death - from the kuffar",

Exactly brother. Now if the Shias did the same because they were also POWERLESS AGAINST Muslim dictators and ruthless rulers and also had NONE TO HELP THEM and they also did it out of FEAR OF TORTURE AND DEATH then, what seems to be the problem???

quote,

"The Shiis, instead, hide their beliefs from the Muslims. Beliefs such as - 'Aisha (ra), the wife of the Prophet (saws), is an adulterer, the Sahaba are all kuffar, and the Muslims are dirtier than pigs and apes",

Now this is absolute rubbish and utter nonsense. Such propaganda against the Shias has been going on for centuries. Learn and get to know Shiaism through literature and understanding, not gossip and rumours.

Quote,

"All Sunnis are of Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama'a",

You're absolutely right. All those groups, parties and organisations that carry out and are involved in terrorism and terrorist activities in the name of Islam claim to be from Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'a. Even those who believe in Yazeed as the rightly guided Khalif of the Muslims and call Yazeed as Hazrath and r.a. 

Quote,

"the people of the Sunnah, and the people of Consensus",

People of the Sunnah??? This is what we also call our selves. Well if you have a right to this claim then so do we.

Quote,

"The Sunnah - all Sunnis follow what is agreed to be the Sunnah of Rasul Allah (saws)",

This agreement came many many years later. At first the Aaima e Arbaa were bitter enemies. These groups came many many years after the Prophet (pbuh). Now if you can take the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh) through a bunch of strangers then, why challenge us who take it from the Prophet's (pbuh) progeny???

Also take a look at the words, "Sunni Hanfi etc", you follow their Sunnah not the Prophet's (pbuh). You have two different things here but you want to show that they mean the same or are the same thing then, why two to begin with???

Quote,

"The Consensus is that there are 4 methods for deriving this Sunnah - the schools of Hanafi/Maliki/Shafi'i/Hanbali"

Again nothing as such did exist during or after the Prophet's (pbuh) time. All this kicked of more than half a century later and onwards. And you question others with better method and source to obtain the Sunnah.

Quote,

"It's not like asking - what type of Shii are you? Do you believe in 5 divine Imams or 12?",

This is the thing brother, we don't have or develop differences, kick each other around and then agree on everything goes.

[Husayn]

Exactly brother. Now if the Shias did the same because they were also POWERLESS AGAINST Muslim dictators and ruthless rulers and also had NONE TO HELP THEM and they also did it out of FEAR OF TORTURE AND DEATH then, what seems to be the problem???

The problem is that the Shii beliefs were anti-Islamic and filthy.

Now this is absolute rubbish and utter nonsense. Such propaganda against the Shias has been going on for centuries. Learn and get to know Shiaism through literature and understanding, not gossip and rumours.

You are such a typical everyday Shii.

Don't worry - I was like you once, thinking that everything said about Shiis was "propoganda" and "gossip".

Keep researching - and you will eventually have 2 choices:

1. Become a rabid extremist Shii
2. Abandon Shiism.

You're absolutely right. All those groups, parties and organisations that carry out and are involved in terrorism and terrorist activities in the name of Islam claim to be from Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'a. Even those who believe in Yazeed as the rightly guided Khalif of the Muslims and call Yazeed as Hazrath and r.a. 

Sometimes I think you are on drugs or something - what does this even mean? Where is the context? You are very random buddy.

People of the Sunnah??? This is what we also call our selves. Well if you have a right to this claim then so do we.

No, you don't.

You call yourselves "Shiis".

I've never heard a Shii scholar say that Shiis are "people of the Sunnah" unless he was trying to rip this title off Ahlul Sunnah.

You are Ahlul Hawaa, not Ahlul Sunnah.

This agreement came many many years later. At first the Aaima e Arbaa were bitter enemies. These groups came many many years after the Prophet (pbuh). Now if you can take the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh) through a bunch of strangers then, why challenge us who take it from the Prophet's (pbuh) progeny???

Also take a look at the words, "Sunni Hanfi etc", you follow their Sunnah not the Prophet's (pbuh). You have two different things here but you want to show that they mean the same or are the same thing then, why two to begin with???

The 4 schools were rivals at one point, and this was due to a difference in methodology, not belief.

They all believed the same thing - that we must follow the Sunnah of Rasul Allah (saws). They differed in how to derive this.

They did not believe that not following a certain Imam made you a kaffir, like the Shii sects did.

Again nothing as such did exist during or after the Prophet's (pbuh) time. All this kicked of more than half a century later and onwards. And you question others with better method and source to obtain the Sunnah.

Ofcourse it didn't exist in the Prophet's time, because these are methodologies for deriving the Sunnah. And all the methodologies are based on sound foundations - authentic ahadith.

Whereas the Shii source of Sunnah are books that contain masses of fabricated narrations, weak and unknown narrators, and where every hadith is contradicted by another. The Shii "methodology" is merely a poor attempt at mimicking the work of Ahlul Sunnah.

This is the thing brother, we don't have or develop differences, kick each other around and then agree on everything goes.

You are severely misinformed.

Even today, Ayatollahs openly declare the kufr of other Ayatollahs.

Your knowledge is based on a very flimsy foundation.

[Hani]

I want to raise a point, the Muslims didn't only have 4 Madhabs, they had many more Madhabs but these 4 just survived whereas others perished.

A RULE ABOUT GOING OFF TOPIC WAS JUST IMPLEMENTED, ANY POST THAT DOES NOT DISCUSS GHADEER BELOW THIS POST WILL BE DELETED.

(I HOPE YOU ALL UNDERSTAND)

[Optimus Prime]

The Ghadir Hadith actually supports the fact the Prophet (SAW) never intended to appointment a successor.

[Ameen]

The Ghadir Hadith actually supports the fact the Prophet (SAW) never intended to appointment a successor.

Really??? And how is that??? So what did the Prophet (pbuh) intend?

[Ameen]

Exactly brother. Now if the Shias did the same because they were also POWERLESS AGAINST Muslim dictators and ruthless rulers and also had NONE TO HELP THEM and they also did it out of FEAR OF TORTURE AND DEATH then, what seems to be the problem???

The problem is that the Shii beliefs were anti-Islamic and filthy.

Now this is absolute rubbish and utter nonsense. Such propaganda against the Shias has been going on for centuries. Learn and get to know Shiaism through literature and understanding, not gossip and rumours.

You are such a typical everyday Shii.

Don't worry - I was like you once, thinking that everything said about Shiis was "propoganda" and "gossip".

Keep researching - and you will eventually have 2 choices:

1. Become a rabid extremist Shii
2. Abandon Shiism.

You're absolutely right. All those groups, parties and organisations that carry out and are involved in terrorism and terrorist activities in the name of Islam claim to be from Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'a. Even those who believe in Yazeed as the rightly guided Khalif of the Muslims and call Yazeed as Hazrath and r.a. 

Sometimes I think you are on drugs or something - what does this even mean? Where is the context? You are very random buddy.

People of the Sunnah??? This is what we also call our selves. Well if you have a right to this claim then so do we.

No, you don't.

You call yourselves "Shiis".

I've never heard a Shii scholar say that Shiis are "people of the Sunnah" unless he was trying to rip this title off Ahlul Sunnah.

You are Ahlul Hawaa, not Ahlul Sunnah.

This agreement came many many years later. At first the Aaima e Arbaa were bitter enemies. These groups came many many years after the Prophet (pbuh). Now if you can take the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh) through a bunch of strangers then, why challenge us who take it from the Prophet's (pbuh) progeny???

Also take a look at the words, "Sunni Hanfi etc", you follow their Sunnah not the Prophet's (pbuh). You have two different things here but you want to show that they mean the same or are the same thing then, why two to begin with???

The 4 schools were rivals at one point, and this was due to a difference in methodology, not belief.

They all believed the same thing - that we must follow the Sunnah of Rasul Allah (saws). They differed in how to derive this.

They did not believe that not following a certain Imam made you a kaffir, like the Shii sects did.

Again nothing as such did exist during or after the Prophet's (pbuh) time. All this kicked of more than half a century later and onwards. And you question others with better method and source to obtain the Sunnah.

Ofcourse it didn't exist in the Prophet's time, because these are methodologies for deriving the Sunnah. And all the methodologies are based on sound foundations - authentic ahadith.

Whereas the Shii source of Sunnah are books that contain masses of fabricated narrations, weak and unknown narrators, and where every hadith is contradicted by another. The Shii "methodology" is merely a poor attempt at mimicking the work of Ahlul Sunnah.

This is the thing brother, we don't have or develop differences, kick each other around and then agree on everything goes.

You are severely misinformed.

Even today, Ayatollahs openly declare the kufr of other Ayatollahs.

Your knowledge is based on a very flimsy foundation.

As much as I would love to respond to this but since it has got nothing to do with Ghadeer then it is off topic. Sorry bro, got to follow the rules and it's about time you did too.

[Ebn Hussein]

Thank you for quoting 2:214.  I actually really love this verse because it clearly proves that an Imam is superior to a Prophet.  After all, Ibrahim (a.s.) was a Prophet, and then he was made into an Imam.  Not the other way around.      

THEREFORE your fallibles Imams (despite the claim of your religion) are INFERIOR to Ibrahim since Ibrahim was a Prophet AND Imam. Thanks for destroying the foundation of your religion.

Wallahi is a joke, this non-Arabic speaking Rafidah who are lead by a bunch of Persian Majoos see the word "Imam" in the Qur'an, then force their secterian understanding to that Arabic term. Here another verse about your Imams:

. "We made them the kinds of IMAMS who would invite people to the FIRE. . ." (28:41)

Anyway, how pathetic is it that that one of the strongest evidences for Ali's Imamah is a verse about a Prophet (Ibrahim) who is INFERIOR to Ali according to Shiism. So Allah mentions the Imams of  a bunch of Prophets who are inferior to ALL the 12 Imams, yet leaves out the 12 Imams who are superior? The verse about Ibrahim has nothing to do with the secterian understanding of Shiism, there is no higher rank than being amongst the Ulil-Azm Prophets and a ROLE MODEL even for Prophet Muhammad (SAWS). Yes, Ibrahim IS a role model (in Tawhid) even for Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) hence he is an Imam of the monotheist, not in a sense that he reached some next level rank after Prophethood (which would destroy Shiism anyway, since it would make him superior to the Shia Imams who were only Imams but Ibrahim would have been Prophet AND Imam).

Also, NO, you can't prove "Imamah" as per Shia understanding from the Qur'an, what you can prove is that Allah appointed SOME individuals as Prophets or righteouss people, that's it. Allah does not always appoint people to rule (even Rafidi Iran ironically ruled by a man who was chosen in a SHURA, the irony ...), that's a Rafidi myth. Those whom Allah has chosen are CLEARLY mentioned in the Qur'an, even Yunus (AS) who dwelled in the belly of an whale, yet not a single Shia Imam. So you CAN'T prove the SHIA understanding of Imamate, what you do is a deception, you prove how PROPHETS were elected, then you do Qiyas (which is from satan acc. to your religion) and say "hey look, that's Imamah, the Prophet's got appointed, so did my Imams!".

[Ebn Hussein]

Brother Fear Allah from making Tahreef of Quran.

Why?  Isn't it the blessed Sunnah of `Uthman to mess with the words of Allah (swt)?


I'll watch the video inshallah.

Let's say your slander is true. Would two wrongs make a right? Are you some abondened kid? What is this childish satanic behaviour all about?

[Hani]

Brother Fear Allah from making Tahreef of Quran.

Why?  Isn't it the blessed Sunnah of `Uthman to mess with the words of Allah (swt)?


I'll watch the video inshallah.

Let's say your slander is true. Would two wrongs make a right? Are you some abondened kid? What is this childish satanic behaviour all about?

This is a gift for bro Ebn Hussein from Bihar al-Anwar on the chapter of Hujjat-ul-Wada` regarding "Ghadeer Khum being a major gathering point"

The narration says:

وقفل إلى المدينة وهو معه والمسلمون حتى انتهى إلى الموضع المعروف بغدير خم وليس بموضع إذ ذاك يصلح للمنزل لعدم الماء فيه والمرعى

[And he (saw) left to Madinah (after Hajj) and he (`Ali) was with him and the (rest of) the Muslims, until he reached a location known as Ghadeer Khum, and it wasn't back in those times a suitable location for resting, as it had no water or grass (to feed the camels).]

Is it me or did they just admit it's not a major nor important gathering point? lol

[Optimus Prime]

Brother Fear Allah from making Tahreef of Quran.

Why?  Isn't it the blessed Sunnah of `Uthman to mess with the words of Allah (swt)?


I'll watch the video inshallah.

Let's say your slander is true. Would two wrongs make a right? Are you some abondened kid? What is this childish satanic behaviour all about?

This is a gift for bro Ebn Hussein from Bihar al-Anwar on the chapter of Hujjat-ul-Wada` regarding "Ghadeer Khum being a major gathering point"

The narration says:

وقفل إلى المدينة وهو معه والمسلمون حتى انتهى إلى الموضع المعروف بغدير خم وليس بموضع إذ ذاك يصلح للمنزل لعدم الماء فيه والمرعى

[And he (saw) left to Madinah (after Hajj) and he (`Ali) was with him and the (rest of) the Muslims, until he reached a location known as Ghadeer Khum, and it wasn't back in those times a suitable location for resting, as it had no water or grass (to feed the camels).]

Is it me or did they just admit it's not a major nor important gathering point? lol

Very interesting. I wonder what Ameen's view is on this?

[Ebn Hussein]

Brother Fear Allah from making Tahreef of Quran.

Why?  Isn't it the blessed Sunnah of `Uthman to mess with the words of Allah (swt)?


I'll watch the video inshallah.

Let's say your slander is true. Would two wrongs make a right? Are you some abondened kid? What is this childish satanic behaviour all about?

This is a gift for bro Ebn Hussein from Bihar al-Anwar on the chapter of Hujjat-ul-Wada` regarding "Ghadeer Khum being a major gathering point"

The narration says:

وقفل إلى المدينة وهو معه والمسلمون حتى انتهى إلى الموضع المعروف بغدير خم وليس بموضع إذ ذاك يصلح للمنزل لعدم الماء فيه والمرعى

[And he (saw) left to Madinah (after Hajj) and he (`Ali) was with him and the (rest of) the Muslims, until he reached a location known as Ghadeer Khum, and it wasn't back in those times a suitable location for resting, as it had no water or grass (to feed the camels).]

Is it me or did they just admit it's not a major nor important gathering point? lol

Hani, add this to the Ghadir article I've written about Rabbi Makkaar Shirazi.