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Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Imamah-Ghaybah => Topic started by: Kalaam on January 07, 2019, 10:00:51 PM

Title: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Kalaam on January 07, 2019, 10:00:51 PM
Here is a list of 100 questions I prepared for Shias to answer.

https://shiacult.webnode.com/challenges/a100-questions/

Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Khaled on January 08, 2019, 03:07:06 AM
I always wanted to debate on behalf of the 12ers just to show them that we actually understand their arguments and find them unconvincing.  So keep that in mind before having your blood boil at my answers  ;D

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1. Why did Salman al-Farsi acted as the governor of Umar if he had usurped the caliphate of Ali? See Hayat ul Qulub, Volume 2,Page 780[

Two responses, 1) weak report, 2) Imam Ali عليه السلام told him to do that so that he can have inside information on Umar.

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2. Were the intentions of Hadhrat Abu Bakr and Hadhrat Umar pure when they embraced Islam or do you accuse them of hypocrisy?

Abu Bakr was sincere and was overpowered by Umar and the Ummayids.  Umar was always an enemy of Islam.

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3. If you accuse them of hypocrisy, then please explain how can they be hypocrites in a society where the Muslims were severely oppressed? The Quraish were extreme in their cruel behavior with the Muslims. Avoiding conjectures and speculations, provide solid proofs of their hypocrisy during that early period.

Easy, Umar wasn't actually oppressed by the Quraysh.  You would actually need to prove that he was.  Since he wasn't involved in the boycott (and neither was Abu Bakr), nor did he ever migrate to Habasha and his migration to Medina was easy.

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4. Can a Prophet, who is divinely appointed, render allegiance to a false prophet? If yes, then give any example from the seerah of the Prophets. If no, then how can an Imam, who is divinely appointed according to you, render allegiance to a false Imam?

They never gave allegiance to a false Imam in the sense that they gave up their religious power to them, they only allowed them to have worldly power to prevent fitnah, like the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم did in the Meccan period.

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5. Did Ali distributed the inheritance of the Prophet (peace be upon him) amongst the inheritors especially Fadak?

No.

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6. Is it true that even the Imams didn't mention Imamate to their children? Because we find in the Shia books that some of the children of the Imams were also unaware of the Imamate of their fathers.

Most of it is not true, and what is true is because their children were Nawasib who wanted the Imamah for themselves.

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7. Does the Progeny include the 12 Imams only? If not, then how do you exclude the others from the Hadith Thaqalayn?

We (they) do so with Hadeeth al-Kisaa and other reports that specify who is mentioned in this one.
 
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8. How is it possible that the Companions didn't help Ali when Abu Bakr was being chosen as Caliph, but they helped Ali when he fought against Muawiyah?

Which Companions were these?  If you mean Ammar, Salman, Abu Dharr etc (notice what I did here, to give the impressions that 12ers don't make takfeer of pretty much everyone else), then they couldn't do so during the reign of Abu Bakr and Umar because Imam Ali wasn't the caliph then.  So just like he didn't fight, they didn't fight.

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9. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said to Ali that you are same as to me as Harun was to Musa. But we know that Harun wasn't the successor of Musa, and he died before him as well. So why do you take this hadith as an evidence for the imamate of Ali?

That's not what the hadeeth means for 12ers or Sunnis.  It means that the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم left Ali عليه السلام behind just like Musa عليه السلام left Haroon عليه السلام behind.

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10. Did the Prophet (peace be upon him) gave anyother precious worldly object aside from Fadak to his daughter?

I don't know.

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11. If Fadak had been gifted to Fatima, why did Ali sent Fatima to the Prophet (peace be upon him) so he could give them a servant?

Nasibi fabrication.

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12. If the Imamate of Ali was announced at Ghadir, why did the Imams call it (i.e. Imamate) a secret?

It was announced during the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم's time, but through time it was hidden by the Caliphs and became a secret.

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13. There were many sects which preached their beliefs openly, and many received punishments from the Caliphs as well. Why is it that the Shias always preached their religion secretly?

To prevent bloodshed and fitnah.

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14. Isn't it true that Ismail Safavi forcefully converted Iranians to Shi'ism?

No.

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15. Majlisi says that I don't see any difference between Prophethood and Imamate. Is it really true that there is no difference between Imamate and Prophethood?

No (lets be real, what kind of logic is this?).

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16. Why is it that Shias have very minor amount of narrations the isnaad of which reach through reliable persons to the Prophet (peace be upon him) as compared to the Sunni narrations?

Because the 12er narrations go through the Imams, therefore, there's no need to to go back to the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم.  By the time we reach any of the Imams, then the rest of the Isnaad is obvious, they narrate from their fathers back to the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم.

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17. If there is a need of an Imam in everytime who should guide the people, who was the Imam at the time when the Prophet (s) was born?

Shi'as don't have an answer to this, and I haven't been able to think of one, really the only good point so far.
 
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18. Do you deny that the Quraish had killed many Muslims and severely punished others before the migration of Muslims to Abyssinia and later on to Madinah?

Of course not.

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19. If those Muslims had faced such harsh times with faith in their heart, leave their homes and families for the sake of Allah and face battles defending  the Prophet (s), how could they accept an unrightful person as their first caliph?

A lot of those people actually died, while the ones that remained didn't pledge allegiance, i.e. Ammar and Bilal رضي الله عنهما.

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20. Was there any need for the Imam to curse Zurarah to protect him?

Yes, he was known a head of the Shi'as and the government would go after him unless the Imams did this.  (Yeah I know, how anyone can believe this is beyond me)

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21. It is mentioned in your books that Ali presented his Quran to Abu Bakr and Umar, who rejected it. And then Ali said that you will never see this Quran again. For the sake of guidance of the people, why didn't he take it out again in his caliphate and publish it in large numbers?

He didn't need to because the rest of the Imams upheld its teaching.  Besides, the Imam will bring it at the end of time (eh... I feel like I'm running out of energy coming up with this stuff).

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22. Is it true that the Chief Justice of Ali was a person who was not eligible for the post?

I haven't really looked at how they explain this away, so I'll skip it.

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23. How did the Companions and their followers managed to defeat the two great super powers of the time without the participation of Ali?

Actually, they wouldn't have been able to without his help.  He helped for the sake of Islam.

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24. If Hadhrat Abu Bakr and Hadhrat Umar were hypocrites, why did the Prophet (s) married their daughters and not the daughters or sisters of Miqdad, Ammar and Abu Dharr?

Politics.

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25. If Abu Talib was a born Muslim, why did he showed shirk when the Prophet (peace be upon him) announced the message of Islam?

Nasibi fabrications.

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26. Why didn't Ali and Hasan fought against Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Muwaiyah, but Hussain fought against Ibn Ziyad? Of all your twelve Imams, only Imam Hussain fought for the revival of Islam? Your books have mentioned that Ali said that if I had 40 men with me, I would have fought against Abu Bakr. But it is written in your books that Imam Hassan had 40,000 men with him , still he rendered allegiance to Muawiyah. And than , Imam Hussain fought with Ibn Ziyad even though he had around 70 men with him. If Hussain was fighting for reviving Islam, why not Ali and Hasan also fought to save Islam from the people whom you accuse to be the oppressors and whom you accuse of totally changing the religion of the Prophet (peace be upon him) e.g the first three caliphs especially Umar?

LOL, let me guess, the person who wrote this is from the sub-continent?  Anyway, this is from the best arguments against 12ers.  Their main response to this is an appeal to the Treaty of Hudabiyah.  But I mean, come on...

I think I'm done answering these one by one, let me see what else there is

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27. You claim that your imams are superior to the Prophets except Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). But even you accept that Abraham was both Imam and a Prophet. So how your 12 imams are superior to Abraham while they don't have prophethood.

Who said they were?

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28. There were four daughters of the Prophet (s). Zainab, Ruqayya, Umme Kulthoom, and Fatima. Were they his real daughters or not? Why did the Prophet (s) married his daughters to Uthman and not Miqdad, Ammar or Abu Dhar?

He had four, people who say he had one are ghalis.  The second part of the question was already responded to... politics.  And lets not forget, this argument is incredibly weak (from the Sunni side) since the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم married Abu Sufyan's sister while he was still a pagan, the daughter of a pagan and the daughter of a Jew.  All three were actively at war with the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم, yet we say these marriages were done for political reasons.

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29. Wasn't Ali the helper of Uthman?

How does stopping a person from being assassinated result in you recognizing their authority over you?  There are a lot of leaders and people who have authority over me, who, while I disagree with them, I would try to stop them from being killed if I had the chance; doesn't mean I recognize their authority, it just means I'm doing the right thing from my perspective.

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30. Is it false that Umar was killed while praying and Uthman was killed while reciting Quran?

Possible Nasibi fabrications, and possibly they were showing off.  We know that ibn Salul used to pray also.
 
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34. Is it true that Hadhrat Ali married his daughters to Hadhrat Umar and Muawiya ibn Marwan ibn Hakam but he married none of his daughters to Miqdad, Ammar, Abu Dhar or Salman Farsi? And he didn’t marry their daughters as well. But we know that he married the daughter of Hadhrat Abul Aas i.e. Umamah on the will of Hadhrat Fatima. We also know that Hadhrat Abul Aas is considered a hypocrite in your sect. Why do we always find the ahlul bayt nearer in relationships to the companions who are considered hypocrite by you but not to those companions who are considered truthful and honest according to you?

The ones against Ahl al Bayt are forced marriages, the ones by Ahl al Bayt are political marriages  ::)

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37. Why Hasan said "Muawiyah is better for me than the people who claim to be our shias"

Honestly, its so easy to answer a lot of these questions, you can tell they were just written so the author can show his followers, "Hey look, I have a 100 questions Shi'as cant answer!"  When its really been two or three so far (although, they have been devastating.)  He said they are better than the people that "claim" to be our Shi'as.  He obviously isn't talking about "true" Shias.

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38. Is it better to pray the Salaat on their time or to combine them?

Fiqh questions are usually a waste of time, but this IS *edit* something that a lot 12ers really need to think about.

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39. What were the places in Makkah in which peace was granted to the people who took refuge in them?

Even as a Sunni I recognize that the reason the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم specified Abu Sufyan wasn't because Abu Sufyan was someone special.

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40. Who was the Muslim caliph who defeated two super powers of his times, Rome and Persia?

Might doesn't make right, 12ers use this to show that Umar was violent.

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41. Why do you delay the iftaar for ten minutes and stop the suhur before ten minutes?

Fiqh questions are a waste of time, but its because they are ignorant of the Arabic language.

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43. Who were the Muslims who protected Islam from the Crusades of the Christians? Sunnis or Shias?

I was recently shocked to find out how much the Shi'as have actually done during those days to protect the Muslim world.  They may have been involved in a lot of treachery, but so were are a lot of other political movements.  Heck, think about who is selling us out today, and a lot of them are certainly not 12ers.

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45.  You say that Companions hated eachother, we say they were compassionate amongst themselves, let us refer to Quran

Shi'as respond to this by saying they don't hate all Companions, so this isn't a refutation of them.  You have to dig in deeper and show their hatered for the overwhelming majority of them to show this point.  Since they can easily say that, this question has to be rephrased.

LOL, ok, I'm done for now.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 08, 2019, 03:08:03 AM
Here is a list of 100 questions I prepared for Shias to answer.

https://shiacult.webnode.com/challenges/a100-questions/

No problem. I'll look into them. How many questions are you prepared to answer.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 08, 2019, 01:12:51 PM
No problem. I'll look into them. How many questions are you prepared to answer.

Lol this is is gonna be a larfff......can’t wait😉
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Khaled on January 09, 2019, 12:56:16 AM
You mean I wrote all that and no one is going to even address it?  >:(
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 09, 2019, 10:44:48 AM
Lol this is is gonna be a larfff......can’t wait😉

I agree with you. This whole thing is a laugh. After all it's entertainment 😀
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 09, 2019, 10:59:50 AM
I agree with you. This whole thing is a laugh. After all it's entertainment 😀

Your response is gonna be fun, always is, it’s all hyperbole and full of fiction and definitely great entertainment I mean your kind have been brilliant at that entertainment since last 1400 years and your pretty good at carrying that trophy forward, still haven’t lost that touch.😉👍

Now answer the 100 questions then.👍
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 09, 2019, 11:27:39 AM
Your response is gonna be fun, always is, it’s all hyperbole and full of fiction and definitely great entertainment I mean your kind have been brilliant at that entertainment since last 1400 years and your pretty good at carrying that trophy forward, still haven’t lost that touch.😉👍

Now answer the 100 questions then.👍

These are your words based on your opinion. And here's mine, you people will always and I mean always engage in trying to put us down and make us look bad. You will never be able to justify your belief and faith. This is something you've always struggled with and always will.

"Now answer the 100 questions then"

What's the flaming point. Is there any point. I'm mean, it doesn't matter what ever the hell we say, it's not going to be acceptable to you anyway. So what's the point. But still, bring it on!
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 09, 2019, 12:02:21 PM
These are your words based on your opinion. And here's mine, you people will always and I mean always engage in trying to put us down and make us look bad. You will never be able to justify your belief and faith. This is something you've always struggled with and always will.

"Now answer the 100 questions then"

What's the flaming point. Is there any point. I'm mean, it doesn't matter what ever the hell we say, it's not going to be acceptable to you anyway. So what's the point. But still, bring it on!

Boo hoo hoo saqifa really has turned you all mushy and hurt.😂

You make yourself look bad we don’t have to do ANYTHING.......look at your answers it’s PURE entertainment especially adding DIVINE to a verse and how hard no matter how unconvincing it sounds you will keep at it.

Our belief started with prophet saw and it is us who upkeep and follow His sunnah, saqifa was the way forward.
your heads in divine Imamate land a fairy tale belief that you cannot for the life of you justify since corresponding with us on the subject, this is something you’ve always struggled with and always will......well for the last 1400 years to be exact.😉

If there is no point then why are you posting in here? Why did you say you will answer them? Have you a split personality? Have you mental issues?
Don’t post if you THINK it’s not worth it, every time you post nonsense it makes you look worse than you already are.

Paagal much?😜👍
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 09, 2019, 01:13:38 PM
Boo hoo hoo saqifa really has turned you all mushy and hurt.😂

You make yourself look bad we don’t have to do ANYTHING.......look at your answers it’s PURE entertainment especially adding DIVINE to a verse and how hard no matter how unconvincing it sounds you will keep at it.

Our belief started with prophet saw and it is us who upkeep and follow His sunnah, saqifa was the way forward.
your heads in divine Imamate land a fairy tale belief that you cannot for the life of you justify since corresponding with us on the subject, this is something you’ve always struggled with and always will......well for the last 1400 years to be exact.😉

If there is no point then why are you posting in here? Why did you say you will answer them? Have you a split personality? Have you mental issues?
Don’t post if you THINK it’s not worth it, every time you post nonsense it makes you look worse than you already are.

Paagal much?😜👍

"Boo hoo hoo saqifa really has turned you all mushy and hurt"

Boo hoo hoo to you as well because Saqifa can't turn anyone all mushy and hurt. Not even mickey mouse. Because Saqifa wasn't legitimate and neither was the coincidental and immature decision made there by just a handful of people.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 09, 2019, 01:41:55 PM
Boo hoo hoo saqifa really has turned you all mushy and hurt.😂

You make yourself look bad we don’t have to do ANYTHING.......look at your answers it’s PURE entertainment especially adding DIVINE to a verse and how hard no matter how unconvincing it sounds you will keep at it.

Our belief started with prophet saw and it is us who upkeep and follow His sunnah, saqifa was the way forward.
your heads in divine Imamate land a fairy tale belief that you cannot for the life of you justify since corresponding with us on the subject, this is something you’ve always struggled with and always will......well for the last 1400 years to be exact.😉

If there is no point then why are you posting in here? Why did you say you will answer them? Have you a split personality? Have you mental issues?
Don’t post if you THINK it’s not worth it, every time you post nonsense it makes you look worse than you already are.

Paagal much?😜👍

"You make yourself look bad we don’t have to do ANYTHING.......look at your answers it’s PURE entertainment especially adding DIVINE to a verse and how hard no matter how unconvincing it sounds you will keep at it"

One answer to all of the above, you suffer from a very serious illness. And that is ANTI SHIA SYNDROME 😊

"If there is no point then why are you posting in here? Why did you say you will answer them? Have you a split personality? Have you mental issues?
Don’t post if you THINK it’s not worth it, every time you post nonsense it makes you look worse than you already are"

Why ask when you are not going to even consider anything we say, let alone accept.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 09, 2019, 02:27:46 PM
Question 1;

Why did Salman al-Farsi acted as the governor of Umar if he had usurped the caliphate of Ali?

See Hayat ul Qulub, Volume 2,Page 780

Answer 1;

Point a, This information 'Salman Farsi acted as the governor of Umar' how do we know that this is true? Just because it's mentioned in a book written or assembled by a Shia, so we should automatically accept it?

Point b, during Umar's reign which city or district was Salman Farsi made a governor of, or he accepted the position of governor? Lets say this is true then what are we trying to establish here?

Lets look at and examine the argument. It was a matter of Caliphate/leadership. Now if Ali and his party, those who sided with him, decided further down the road that at the end what is most important is the welfare of Islam and the benefit of the Muslims,

and they decided to look at the bigger picture, they had collective interest at mind and in heart so they decided to coexist by cooperating where and when needed an necessary, how does this establish and prove what you're trying to establish and prove?
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 09, 2019, 03:05:01 PM
If one is right and on Haq or believes as such then one should stand there ground and exercise their right regardless? They should become tight and narrow minded and resort towards violence and threatening behaviour just because they are or seem or assume to be on the right and on Haq?

If one is right and on Haq but they decide to be patient instead of execercising their right because that would result towards violence and division why can't this be true and right? Or if one decides to coexist and to move forward by cooperating and working together because they believe in collective interest?

What on earth are you so desperate about trying to establish and prove.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: MuslimK on January 09, 2019, 10:21:13 PM
Here is a list of 100 questions I prepared for Shias to answer.

https://shiacult.webnode.com/challenges/a100-questions/



Masha'Allah! Good work!
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 10, 2019, 03:58:31 AM
Lets put a question up for you lot.

Sehih Bukhari,

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 796 :
Narrated by Anas

"A group of people from 'Ukl (tribe) came to the Prophet and they were living with the people of As-Suffa, but they became ill as the climate of Medina did not suit them, so they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with milk." The Prophet said, I see no other way for you than to use the camels of Allah's Apostle." So they went and drank the milk and urine of the camels, (as medicine) and became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and took the camels away. When a help-seeker came to Allah's Apostle, he sent some men in their pursuit, and they were captured and brought before mid day. The Prophet ordered for some iron pieces to be made red hot, and their eyes were branded with them and their hands and feet were cut off and were not cauterized. Then they were put at a place called Al-Harra, and when they asked for water to drink they were not given till they died"

Do you Sunnis honestly believe that the Prophet s.a.w was this merciless?
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 10, 2019, 01:23:55 PM
Lets put a question up for you lot.

Sehih Bukhari,

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 796 :
Narrated by Anas

"A group of people from 'Ukl (tribe) came to the Prophet and they were living with the people of As-Suffa, but they became ill as the climate of Medina did not suit them, so they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with milk." The Prophet said, I see no other way for you than to use the camels of Allah's Apostle." So they went and drank the milk and urine of the camels, (as medicine) and became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and took the camels away. When a help-seeker came to Allah's Apostle, he sent some men in their pursuit, and they were captured and brought before mid day. The Prophet ordered for some iron pieces to be made red hot, and their eyes were branded with them and their hands and feet were cut off and were not cauterized. Then they were put at a place called Al-Harra, and when they asked for water to drink they were not given till they died"

Do you Sunnis honestly believe that the Prophet s.a.w was this merciless?

This is his response to the 100 questions...........by ASKING ANOTHER QUESTION.😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 10, 2019, 02:06:54 PM
This is his response to the 100 questions...........by ASKING ANOTHER QUESTION.😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Are you afraid of being asked? Absolutely. Yes you are. You ask, that's fine. But when asked then comes on the tantrum.😀

This was from  a Sunni book. And it is no ordinary Sunni book but from SEHIH SITTA. You honesty believe that the Prophet s.a.w would order such punishment on captives?

Is this what the entire Ahle Sunnah believe about Muhammad s.a.w that this is the kind of man he was? It works both ways 😊
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 10, 2019, 02:29:33 PM
Question 2.

Were the intentions of Hadhrat Abu Bakr and Hadhrat Umar pure when they embraced Islam or do you accuse them of hypocrisy?

Answer 2.

First point. INTENTIONS. When it comes to the intention 'niyat' of people, what is actually inside them, what are they really thinking or what is the real reason behind this, that or the other, only Allah knows better and best.

Second point. People are innocent no matter who they are until there is evidence of some sort or kind to prove their guilt. Yes, from ones actions or behaviour one can assume this or that in a particular matter or situation.

Third point. When there was political strife after the demise of the Prophet s.a.w, the issue of Caliphate (leadership) for instance the battle of Safeen, do we accept and believe that everyone who was with Ali and gave him allegiance was or remained loyal to him?

The same can be said about Hassan and Hussain with their issue regarding Muawiya and Yazeed. There are many more examples as such.

Do you believe that everyone and I mean every single person who accepted Muhammad s.a.w and became his companion was loyal or remained loyal?

Especially all those people who opposed the Prophet s.a.w in every way and means possible then accepted Islam at the taking of Mecca, not by free will but because they had no choice were also loyal and had the right intentions or remained loyal in the years and time to come?

Why is it that Abu Bakr and Umar (ra) seem to bug you so much. Or you seem to have so much concern for some individuals and you portray and represent them as some iconic figures who could never be wrong or put a foot wrong anywhere?

Most of he issues between you and us evolve and circle around this, why?
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 10, 2019, 02:43:43 PM
Are you afraid of being asked? Absolutely. Yes you are. You ask, that's fine. But when asked then comes on the tantrum.😀

This was from  a Sunni book. And it is no ordinary Sunni book but from SEHIH SITTA. You honesty believe that the Prophet s.a.w would order such punishment on captives?

Is this what the entire Ahle Sunnah believe about Muhammad s.a.w that this is the kind of man he was? It works both ways 😊

Good on you for picking up the arguments of the Christians, thankyou for upholding my belief of how much shiites hate Muslims and will use their arguments against its own brothers, well so called brothers who are Muslims but not maumins.😉👍

I don’t need to answer anything from you especially if you can’t even answer the 100 questions what this thread is really about.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 10, 2019, 02:46:59 PM
"Boo hoo hoo saqifa really has turned you all mushy and hurt"

Boo hoo hoo to you as well because Saqifa can't turn anyone all mushy and hurt. Not even mickey mouse. Because Saqifa wasn't legitimate and neither was the coincidental and immature decision made there by just a handful of people.

But it lived and saw the light of day and is still implemented, alhamdulillah.

Divine Imamate was in the bin as soon as it was heard of and was never implemented, alhamdulillah.

You do the math.😉👍
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 10, 2019, 02:51:04 PM
"You make yourself look bad we don’t have to do ANYTHING.......look at your answers it’s PURE entertainment especially adding DIVINE to a verse and how hard no matter how unconvincing it sounds you will keep at it"

One answer to all of the above, you suffer from a very serious illness. And that is ANTI SHIA SYNDROME 😊

"If there is no point then why are you posting in here? Why did you say you will answer them? Have you a split personality? Have you mental issues?
Don’t post if you THINK it’s not worth it, every time you post nonsense it makes you look worse than you already are"

Why ask when you are not going to even consider anything we say, let alone accept.


You being a joker equals anti Shiite syndrome??😂😂😂😂😂👍👍👍

This is the entertainment I like.😂😂😂

Keep at it.👍👍👍

Why do you poke your nose in if you then say.........”you are not going to consider anything we say”?????

Do you like TROLLING threads??
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 10, 2019, 03:11:37 PM
The Beliefs of Ahl Sunnah regarding The Companions.Position of The Prophet’s companions among muslims.

After the Prophet, there is no other position that is higher and nobler beside the position of the companions, whom Allah is pleased of to court His noblest prophet and the last of the prophets He sent. And to defend His religion. They were the best among companions of His prophet and messenger.

Allah the Exalted had declared, in chapter AtTaubah/The Repentance: 100, which can be translated as,

“And of those who led the way – the first of the Emigrants (Muhajirun) and the Helpers (Ansar), and those who followed them in the best possible manner – Allah is well-pleased with them and they are well-pleased with Allah. He has prepared for them Gardens beneath which rivers flow; therein they will abide forever. That is the supreme triumph.”

The meaning of those who led the way (in embracing Islam), is none other than the companions -may Allah be pleased with them-.

The Messenger of Allah -peace and prayer of Allah be upon him- said,

“The best of men are the ones live at my time, and after them, and after them.” (Narrated by Bukhari, Muslim, and Tirmidhi).

The above is the belief of the Ahle Sunnah about companions of the Prophet s.a.w and their status.

Now lets look at the next bit keeping the above in mind.

Malik ibn Nuwaira (Arabic: مالك بن نويرة‎), also spelled as Malik ibn Nuwera, was a chief of the Bani Yarbu', a large section of the powerful tribe of Bani Tamim which inhabited the north-eastern region of Arabia, between Bahrain and Najd. The tribe was pagan until Islam came to Arabia. The centre of Malik's clan was Butah.

Famous for his generosity and hospitality, Malik is said to have kept a light burning outside his house all night so that any traveller passing that way would know where to find shelter and food. He would get up during the night to check the light. A strikingly handsome man, he had a thick head of hair and his face, a contemporary has said, was "as fine as the moon." He was skilful in the use of weapons and noted for his courage and chivalry, and he was an accomplished poet. Malik possessed all the qualities which the Arabs looked for in the perfect male. He was married to Layla bint al-Minhal who was considered to be one of the most beautiful women in Arabia.

In view of his distinguished position in the tribe and his unquestionable talents, Muhammad appointed him as an officer over the clan of Bani Handhalah. His main responsibility was the collection of taxes and their despatch to Madinah.

So what really is the belief of the Ahle Sunnah regarding the companions of the Prophet s.a.w? Is there an exception? If there is an exception for the Ahle Sunnah on companions of the Prophet s.a.w despite their belief regarding the companions then why can't the same be for the Ahle Tasheyu? 😊
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on January 10, 2019, 03:31:09 PM
Malik ibn Nuwaira (Arabic: مالك بن نويرة‎), also spelled as Malik ibn Nuwera, was a chief of the Bani Yarbu', a large section of the powerful tribe of Bani Tamim which inhabited the north-eastern region of Arabia, between Bahrain and Najd. The tribe was pagan until Islam came to Arabia. The centre of Malik's clan was Butah.

Famous for his generosity and hospitality, Malik is said to have kept a light burning outside his house all night so that any traveller passing that way would know where to find shelter and food. He would get up during the night to check the light. A strikingly handsome man, he had a thick head of hair and his face, a contemporary has said, was "as fine as the moon." He was skilful in the use of weapons and noted for his courage and chivalry, and he was an accomplished poet. Malik possessed all the qualities which the Arabs looked for in the perfect male. He was married to Layla bint al-Minhal who was considered to be one of the most beautiful women in Arabia.

Word for word, the same passage can be found at:

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Malik_ibn_Nuwayrah.html

https://www.revolvy.com/page/Malik-ibn-Nuwayrah?source=folders

The first link cites references but there is not a single reference for the passage you have copy-pasted.  In other words, the following "facts" cannot be substantiated:

1.  That Malik was generous and would keep a light burning.

2.  That Malik was a handsome and courageous man, also a poet.

3.  That Malik was married to one of the most beautiful women in Arabia.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 10, 2019, 04:37:14 PM
Word for word, the same passage can be found at:

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Malik_ibn_Nuwayrah.html

https://www.revolvy.com/page/Malik-ibn-Nuwayrah?source=folders

The first link cites references but there is not a single reference for the passage you have copy-pasted.  In other words, the following "facts" cannot be substantiated:

1.  That Malik was generous and would keep a light burning.

2.  That Malik was a handsome and courageous man, also a poet.

3.  That Malik was married to one of the most beautiful women in Arabia.

Copy pasting is his game, he is copy pasting even if it there is no truth to it......

”As soon as Malik heard of the appointment of Abu Bakr as caliph, he gave back all the tax to his tribesmen, saying that "I will only pay taxes to the man chosen at Ghadeer " (Ali ibn Abu Taleb).

Read more: Malik ibn Nuwayrah | Revolvy https://www.revolvy.com/page/Malik-ibn-Nuwayrah?smv=3416626#ixzz5cD83xICO
Follow us: @RevolvyEarth on Twitter | RevolvyEarth on Facebook

😂😂😂😂👍😂👍👍

“To the man chosen at ghadeer”...........that there is the biggest lie and giveaway that it’s FAKE!!!

It really contradicts this

.............Source: البداية والنهاية (6/314، 315).
Al Bidayah wal nihayah 6/314,315.

In the book AL-`AWASIM MIN AL-QAWASIM by QADI ABU BAKR IBN AL-`ARABI he mentions that: Fatima lived for six months after the death of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, withdrawn in her house. `Ali was with her. He did not cease to pray the prayers behind the Siddiq. He [Ali[ra]] went out with him when Abu Bakr went out and unsheathed his sword to fight the apostates (Ahl ar-Ridda).

So according to the logic of iceman nuwera the apostate would only give taxes to imam Ali ra, yet imam Ali ra went out to fight against him!!🤔🤔

This guy iceman gets funnier by the post.😂😂😂😂😂👍👍👍👍
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 10, 2019, 06:14:07 PM
Word for word, the same passage can be found at:

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Malik_ibn_Nuwayrah.html

https://www.revolvy.com/page/Malik-ibn-Nuwayrah?source=folders

The first link cites references but there is not a single reference for the passage you have copy-pasted.  In other words, the following "facts" cannot be substantiated:

1.  That Malik was generous and would keep a light burning.

2.  That Malik was a handsome and courageous man, also a poet.

3.  That Malik was married to one of the most beautiful women in Arabia.

I see you're very adamant about Malik bin Nuwayrah and are ready from the start to denounce and disregard everything about him. Anyways.just to move the discussion forward. Lets accept what you're saying. Answer me this,

was Malik bin Nuwayrah not a Companion of the Prophet s.a.w? And was he not a close companion where the Prophet s.a.w trusted him and gave him the positing and responsibility as a tax collector? Lets take it from here.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on January 10, 2019, 06:46:28 PM
I see you're very adamant about Malik bin Nuwayrah and are ready from the start to denounce and disregard everything about him.

No, you do not see anything because if you could see, you would have noticed that you have copy-pasted statements without evidence.  If Malik was all that the passage says, why is there no reference?  In fact, the entire passage - making so many claims - does not have a single superscript or citation.

Quote
Anyways.just to move the discussion forward. Lets accept what you're saying. Answer me this,

Why do you want the discussion to move forward?  We are not keeping tabs but you have made this blunder over and over again.  And with no shame, you ask us to move forward.

You disregard authentic narrations from your own books and videos clearly showing your scholars spewing kufr because we bring them to you, without even acknowledging the fact that the references are strong.  And you want us to overlook your shady behavior and move on!

Quote
was Malik bin Nuwayrah not a Companion of the Prophet s.a.w? And was he not a close companion where the Prophet s.a.w trusted him and gave him the positing and responsibility as a tax collector? Lets take it from here.

It is shocking that someone's companionship to the Prophet (saw) matters to you when you clearly disregard Abu Bakr (ra), Umar (ra) and Uthman (ra).  Hypocrisy of the highest order!

Yes, Malik was a companion of the Prophet (saw).  However, he was NOT a close companion nor does entrusting with tax collection makes one absolutely trustworthy to the point of infallibility.  If anything, trusting someone to write the Qur'an is more important that collecting Zakat and Muawiya was entrusted with being a scribe of the Qur'an.  And we know how you feel about Muawiya so let us not play by Shi'i (double) standards.

As for Malik, he lost his companionship because he violated the most basic requirement for being a companion: to die upon Islam or to die as a Muslim.  And you cannot deny his apostasy because refusal to pay or give Zakat makes him an apostate, as per both Shi'i and Sunni schools.  In other words, the judgment is clear: he became an apostate, even as per authentic reports by your "infallible" Imams (ra).
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 10, 2019, 07:32:46 PM
No, you do not see anything because if you could see, you would have noticed that you have copy-pasted statements without evidence.  If Malik was all that the passage says, why is there no reference?  In fact, the entire passage - making so many claims - does not have a single superscript or citation.

Why do you want the discussion to move forward?  We are not keeping tabs but you have made this blunder over and over again.  And with no shame, you ask us to move forward.

You disregard authentic narrations from your own books and videos clearly showing your scholars spewing kufr because we bring them to you, without even acknowledging the fact that the references are strong.  And you want us to overlook your shady behavior and move on!

It is shocking that someone's companionship to the Prophet (saw) matters to you when you clearly disregard Abu Bakr (ra), Umar (ra) and Uthman (ra).  Hypocrisy of the highest order!

Yes, Malik was a companion of the Prophet (saw).  However, he was NOT a close companion nor does entrusting with tax collection makes one absolutely trustworthy to the point of infallibility.  If anything, trusting someone to write the Qur'an is more important that collecting Zakat and Muawiya was entrusted with being a scribe of the Qur'an.  And we know how you feel about Muawiya so let us not play by Shi'i (double) standards.

As for Malik, he lost his companionship because he violated the most basic requirement for being a companion: to die upon Islam or to die as a Muslim.  And you cannot deny his apostasy because refusal to pay or give Zakat makes him an apostate, as per both Shi'i and Sunni schools.  In other words, the judgment is clear: he became an apostate, even as per authentic reports by your "infallible" Imams (ra).

"No, you do not see anything because if you could see, you would have noticed that you have copy-pasted statements without evidence.  If Malik was all that the passage says, why is there no reference?  In fact, the entire passage - making so many claims - does not have a single superscript or citation"

Once again rather than discussing you get all emotional and personal and start an argument by letting off tantrums. Calm down and take a deep breath. Stick to a principal rather than throwing yourself all over the place and making rules and regulations as you go along.

You talk about copy and paste, information from Sunni sites which favour and please, reference or no reference then that is fine and acceptable. Why, because it suits you. Anyways. OK Malik wasn't what the passage says but was he a close companion or not? That's the main point which you can't run from.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 10, 2019, 09:36:53 PM
As for Malik, he lost his companionship because he violated the most basic requirement for being a companion"

So one can lose their companionship. Bravo! Thank you very very much for accepting and confirming that. Much obliged. That is what I was working towards. Thanks for assisting me.

"And you cannot deny his apostasy"

Deny his apostasy? We have a difference in opinion over that. But thanks for pointing out that once a companion isn't always a companion.

Now if someone believes in the same about any other companion for what ever reason which you differ on then why does that send your blood pressure well over the mark?

"because refusal to pay or give Zakat makes him an apostate"

I strongly disagree with that. I believe in freedom of speech and belief.

"as per both Shi'i and Sunni schools.  In other words, the judgment is clear"

Nothing is more important than the Qur'an. Both schools of thought depend and rely on the Qur'an.

"he became an apostate"

So a companion can become an apostate, if one sees a companion of hypocrisy then what seems to be the problem?

"even as per authentic reports by your "infallible" Imams (ra)"

No problem. Can you back these reports and their authenticity from the Qur'an? Or how do we scale and measure? Be it you or us, do we pick from books and automatically accept what suits us and what we're comfortable and satisfied with? And if it's vice versa then all of a sudden we want evidence from the Qur'an regarding certain material from the same books. 😑

"It is shocking that someone's companionship to the Prophet (saw) matters to you when you clearly disregard Abu Bakr (ra), Umar (ra) and Uthman (ra).  Hypocrisy of the highest order!"

No, not at all. You've got me all wrong and you always have. I'm not like you, Hani or any of the others. I believe and have principles. To me companionship should be at a whole if that's what you believe in.

If believe that companions are not 'Masoom' but 'mehfooz' and all companions will go to heaven and once a companion always a companion and this verse applies to the companions then I will stick to it. I won't have double standards and there will be no exceptions be it Sahabiath or Caliphate and my belief in the status and reputation of companions and caliphs.

I don't believe in double standards. And if I believe in exception then I will give the same right of belief to the others. You don't do that. You for instance will step in the ring for example for a boxing match and will make your own rules as you go along. And you will make and have a different set of rules for your opponent. The same you do at discussions and in arguments.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 10, 2019, 09:55:49 PM
Word for word, the same passage can be found at:

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Malik_ibn_Nuwayrah.html

https://www.revolvy.com/page/Malik-ibn-Nuwayrah?source=folders

The first link cites references but there is not a single reference for the passage you have copy-pasted.  In other words, the following "facts" cannot be substantiated:

1.  That Malik was generous and would keep a light burning.

2.  That Malik was a handsome and courageous man, also a poet.

3.  That Malik was married to one of the most beautiful women in Arabia.

Ok and what about post #14? Did the cat get your tongue there? It was straight out of Sehih Bukhari. Or do you just pick and choose on what you need to respond to just like your belief.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on January 10, 2019, 10:06:59 PM
Once again rather than discussing you get all emotional and personal and start an argument by letting off tantrums.

The passage you copy-pasted has no references.  It is a fact!  Show me otherwise or cut the nonsense that I am getting "all emotional and personal".

Quote
Calm down and take a deep breath.

Was this bit necessary for you to type?

Quote
Stick to a principal rather than throwing yourself all over the place and making rules and regulations as you go along.

You wanted to move forward and discuss Malik.  Now that it has backfired, you want to cry foul.  Have some respect for your madhhab, if not for your own self.  You are making a mockery out of Shia Islam.

Quote
You talk about copy and paste, information from Sunni sites which favour and please, reference or no reference then that is fine and acceptable. Why, because it suits you.

Two reasons for that:

1.  You will not accept our sources although I am sure you know our position on Malik bin Nuwayrah.

2.  What I have said is unanimously agreed upon by Sunnis so the fact that no Sunni here has corrected me should tell you that this is authentic information, according to our sources.

Quote
Anyways. OK Malik wasn't what the passage says but was he a close companion or not? That's the main point which you can't run from.

You really need to work on curbing your tantrums and start reading better.  As I said, Malik was a companion, not a close one by any stretch of imagination.  The fact that he considered paying or giving Zakat void made him an apostate according to Shi'i and Sunni standards.  Therefore, he did not remain a companion....far from it!

However, if you want to make him a "close" companion for being tasked with collecting Zakat from his tribe, what do you say regarding Muawiya who was entrusted with being a Qur'anic scribe?  Don't try to answer it!  We already know your hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on January 10, 2019, 10:13:06 PM
Ok and what about post #14? Did the cat get your tongue there? It was straight out of Sehih Bukhari. Or do you just pick and choose on what you need to respond to just like your belief.

Did it have to do with Malik bin Nuwayrah?  No!  So how is it relevant?

You are throwing red-herrings because you are in over your head.

However, here is the narration:

Narrated by Anas:
A group of people from 'Ukl (tribe) came to the Prophet and they were living with the people of As-Suffa, but they became ill as the climate of Medina did not suit them, so they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with milk."  The Prophet said, I see no other way for you than to use the camels of Allah's Apostle."  So they went and drank the milk and urine of the camels, (as medicine) and became healthy and fat.  Then they killed the shepherd and took the camels away.  When a help-seeker came to Allah's Apostle, he sent some men in their pursuit, and they were captured and brought before mid day.  The Prophet ordered for some iron pieces to be made red hot, and their eyes were branded with them and their hands and feet were cut off and were not cauterized.  Then they were put at a place called Al-Harra, and when they asked for water to drink they were not given till they died.

Did you miss that part?  Maybe these men should have killed Imam Ali or one of his sons (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon them).....then you would have seen their crime.

It is an amazing situation!  You are ready to condemn Khalid ibn Walid (ra) to the worst place in Hell for killing Malik bin Nuwayrah but you somehow miss the part where these men killed the shepherd of the camels of the Holy Prophet (saw).
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 10, 2019, 11:22:31 PM
Did it have to do with Malik bin Nuwayrah?  No!  So how is it relevant?

You are throwing red-herrings because you are in over your head.

However, here is the narration:

Narrated by Anas:
A group of people from 'Ukl (tribe) came to the Prophet and they were living with the people of As-Suffa, but they became ill as the climate of Medina did not suit them, so they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with milk."  The Prophet said, I see no other way for you than to use the camels of Allah's Apostle."  So they went and drank the milk and urine of the camels, (as medicine) and became healthy and fat.  Then they killed the shepherd and took the camels away.  When a help-seeker came to Allah's Apostle, he sent some men in their pursuit, and they were captured and brought before mid day.  The Prophet ordered for some iron pieces to be made red hot, and their eyes were branded with them and their hands and feet were cut off and were not cauterized.  Then they were put at a place called Al-Harra, and when they asked for water to drink they were not given till they died.

Did you miss that part?  Maybe these men should have killed Imam Ali or one of his sons (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon them).....then you would have seen their crime.

It is an amazing situation!  You are ready to condemn Khalid ibn Walid (ra) to the worst place in Hell for killing Malik bin Nuwayrah but you somehow miss the part where these men killed the shepherd of the camels of the Holy Prophet (saw).

"Did it have to do with Malik bin Nuwayrah?  No!  So how is it relevant?"

Don't look for excuses.

"You are throwing red-herrings because you are in over your head"

No. You pick and choose when it comes to addressing and answering.

No I didn't miss any part. They killed a shepherd and because of this crime what did the Prophet s.a.w order according to your books and scholars, and this is one of your reliable and authentic books by the way. So no excuses.

"The Prophet ordered for some iron pieces to be made red hot, and their eyes were branded with them and their hands and feet were cut off and were not cauterized.  Then they were put at a place called Al-Harra, and when they asked for water to drink they were not given till they died"

Did you miss the above bit or just skip it? What the Prophet s.a.w ordered is against the Qur'an and Sunnah. It doesn’t fit with the Prophet's s.a.w nature and personality. He didn't even do that to those pagan Makkans during the taking of Mecca on the terrible crimes and atrocities they committed for nearly 20 years against Islam, the Prophet s.a.w and the Muslims.

"It is an amazing situation!  You are ready to condemn Khalid ibn Walid (ra) to the worst place in Hell for killing Malik bin Nuwayrah but you somehow miss the part where these men killed the shepherd of the camels of the Holy Prophet (saw)"

I haven't condemned Khalid or Abu Bakr or Umar or Muawiya in Hell or anywhere else. This is your problem that your head and ego is too far stuck up with in the Anti Shia sentiment.

These men killed a shepherd but do you honestly believe in what the Prophet s.a.w ordered? Come on, go on, admit it, your authentic books have some crap in it. Or justify it. Is this what the Qur'an and Sunnah says and orders?
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 10, 2019, 11:41:30 PM
The passage you copy-pasted has no references.  It is a fact!  Show me otherwise or cut the nonsense that I am getting "all emotional and personal".

Was this bit necessary for you to type?

You wanted to move forward and discuss Malik.  Now that it has backfired, you want to cry foul.  Have some respect for your madhhab, if not for your own self.  You are making a mockery out of Shia Islam.

Two reasons for that:

1.  You will not accept our sources although I am sure you know our position on Malik bin Nuwayrah.

2.  What I have said is unanimously agreed upon by Sunnis so the fact that no Sunni here has corrected me should tell you that this is authentic information, according to our sources.

You really need to work on curbing your tantrums and start reading better.  As I said, Malik was a companion, not a close one by any stretch of imagination.  The fact that he considered paying or giving Zakat void made him an apostate according to Shi'i and Sunni standards.  Therefore, he did not remain a companion....far from it!

However, if you want to make him a "close" companion for being tasked with collecting Zakat from his tribe, what do you say regarding Muawiya who was entrusted with being a Qur'anic scribe?  Don't try to answer it!  We already know your hypocrisy.

I don't want you to move forward and discuss Malik bin Nuwayrah. We've already discussed his situation. And here is one report from your site.

According to one report, their mu’adhin, a person by the name of Abu al Jalal, was absent, which was the reason why no adhan was heard.5 It has even been reported that they encountered armed resistance from Malik and his men at an oasis called al Ba’udah.6 Those who put up the resistance, including Malik, were captured and brought before Sayyidina Khalid radiya Llahu `anhu. He decided that they must be put to death. This is how Malik ibn Nuwayrah was killed.

In Sayyidina Khalid’s party was the Sahabi Sayyidina Abu Qatadah radiya Llahu `anhu. He was amongst those who claimed that they had seen Malik’s people making salah. He was thus understandably upset at the decision of Sayyidina Khalid radiya Llahu `anhu, and returned immediately to Madinah to complain to Sayyidina Abu Bakr radiya Llahu `anhu.

Sayyidina `Umar radiya Llahu `anhu insisted that Khalid be removed from his position as commander on account of his impetuousness. Khalid was summoned back to Madinah and interrogated by the khalifah, who concluded that Khalid’s deed was an error of judgement, for which it was not necessary to dismiss him.

We're discussing companions of the Prophet s.a.w and their status according to the Ahle Sunnah. Not how close they were or weren't. Malik ibn Nuwayrah was a companion and you believe he became an apostate after the demise of the Prophet s.a.w. which is much more serious than accusing a companion of being a hypocrite or getting something wrong or accusing them of hidden or I'll intentions. You have one principle for yourself on and regarding the companions and your can't even stick to it.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 11, 2019, 03:27:07 AM
Question 3. If you accuse them of hypocrisy, then please explain how can they be hypocrites in a society where the Muslims were severely oppressed? The Quraish were extreme in their cruel behavior with the Muslims. Avoiding conjectures and speculations, provide solid proofs of their hypocrisy during that period"

Answer 3. Who accused them of hypocrisy during the early period? If you talk about the early period of Islam then there are different reports on how and what made Umar accept Islam. But if we're talking about the life time of Umar then some people hold the following view.

Before accepting Islam, Umar was one of the most rabid enemies of Muhammad, the Messenger of God.

When Muhammad proclaimed his mission, many people acknowledged him as the Messenger of God. Umar acknowledged him as Messenger of God after six years.

Some historians claim that Umar was a most awe-inspiring man, and when he accepted Islam, the idolaters were gripped with fear for their lives. But this is only a case of a dominant myth being in conflict with ugly facts.

When Umar accepted Islam, the idolaters remained where they were, and nothing changed for them; but it was Muhammad who was compelled to leave his home, and had to find sanctuary in a desolate ravine.

He spent three years in that ravine, and during those years of exile, his life was exposed to deadly perils every day and every night. During this entire period of more than 1000 days, Umar, like many other Muslims in Makkah, was the silent spectator of the ordeals of his master. He made no attempt to bring those ordeals to an end.

Muhammad Mustafa established brotherhood among Muslims both in Makkah and in Medina. In Makkah, he made Umar the “brother” of Abu Bakr, and in Medina, he made him the “brother” of Utban bin Malik. For his own brother, Muhammad chose Ali ibn Abi Talib in both cities.

In 3 A.H., Umar's daughter, Hafsa, was married to the Apostle.

Umar was one of the fugitives of the battle of Uhud (Baladhuri). He himself said later;

“When Muslim were defeated in Uhud, I ran toward the mountain.” (Suyuti in al-Durr al-Manthoor).

At the siege of Khyber, Umar made an attempt to capture the fortress but failed.

Umar was one of the fugitives of the battle of Hunayn. Abu Qatada, a companion of the Prophet, says: “In Hunayn when the Muslims were fleeing, I also fled, and I saw Umar with others.” (Bukhari and Kitabul-Maghazi).

In 8 A.H. the Apostle sent Umar as a ranker with many others to report for duty to Amr bin Aas, their commanding officer, in the campaign of Dhat es-Salasil.

In 11 A.H. the Apostle of God organized the Syrian expedition and he appointed Usama bin Zayd bin Haritha as its general. He ordered Umar to serve as a ranker in the expedition.

Though Umar spent eighteen years in the company of Muhammad Mustafa, the Messenger of God, the latter never appointed him to any position of authority, civil or military.

When the Apostle of God was on his deathbed, he asked the companions to bring pen, paper and ink so he might dictate his will but Umar defied him. He did not let the Apostle dictate his will and testament.

Umar was not present at the funeral of the Prophet of Islam. He was brawling with the Ansar in the outhouse of Saqifa when the body of the Prophet was being buried.

Umar was the khalifa-maker of Abu Bakr. During Abu Bakr's khilafat, Umar was his principal adviser.

The Banu Umayya were the traditional champions of idolatry and the arch-enemies of Muhammad and his clan, the Banu Hashim. Muhammad had broken their power but Umar revived them. The central component of his policy, as head of the government of Saqifa, was the restoration of the Umayyads. He turned over Syria to them as their “fief,” and he made them the first family in the empire.

A modern student of history might find claims made on behalf of some companions of the Prophet rather extravagant and baffling. He might notice in them the clash of popular imagination with historical reality.

But if he wishes to make a realistic evaluation of the roles they played in the lifetime of the Prophet, there is no better way of doing so than to turn away from rhapsody and rhetoric, and to focus attention on facts and facts alone.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on January 11, 2019, 04:03:52 AM
Don't look for excuses.

No. You pick and choose when it comes to addressing and answering.

On one hand you accuse me of making excuses and in the very next post you say, "I don't want you to move forward and discuss Malik bin Nuwayrah."

Well then why did you bring him up?

Quote
No I didn't miss any part. They killed a shepherd and because of this crime what did the Prophet s.a.w order according to your books and scholars, and this is one of your reliable and authentic books by the way. So no excuses.

I do not expect you, or you scholars, to know the Qur'an but I will prove this from the Qur'an.  Have patience.

Quote
Did you miss the above bit or just skip it? What the Prophet s.a.w ordered is against the Qur'an and Sunnah.

"The recompense of those who fight Allah and His messenger, and seek to make corruption in the land, is that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from alternate sides or that they be banished from the land; that is their disgrace in this world and in the Hereafter they will have a great torment." (Qur'an 5:33)

How many times do we Sunnis have to introduce you to the Qur'an?

Quote
It doesn’t fit with the Prophet's s.a.w nature and personality.

In the Name of Allah (swt), please read the basic translation of the Qur'an.  You are representing Shias worse than Christian missionaries present Christianity.

Quote
I haven't condemned Khalid or Abu Bakr or Umar or Muawiya in Hell or anywhere else. This is your problem that your head and ego is too far stuck up with in the Anti Shia sentiment.

No time for taqiyyah!

Quote
These men killed a shepherd but do you honestly believe in what the Prophet s.a.w ordered? Come on, go on, admit it, your authentic books have some crap in it. Or justify it. Is this what the Qur'an and Sunnah says and orders?

The punishment is clearly spelled in the Book of Allah (swt).  Crap?

"The recompense of those who fight Allah and His messenger, and seek to make corruption in the land, is that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from alternate sides or that they be banished from the land; that is their disgrace in this world and in the Hereafter they will have a great torment." (Qur'an 5:33)

Quote
Before accepting Islam, Umar was one of the most rabid enemies of Muhammad, the Messenger of God.

When Muhammad proclaimed his mission, many people acknowledged him as the Messenger of God. Umar acknowledged him as Messenger of God after six years.

Some historians claim that Umar was a most awe-inspiring man, and when he accepted Islam, the idolaters were gripped with fear for their lives. But this is only a case of a dominant myth being in conflict with ugly facts.

When Umar accepted Islam, the idolaters remained where they were, and nothing changed for them; but it was Muhammad who was compelled to leave his home, and had to find sanctuary in a desolate ravine.

He spent three years in that ravine, and during those years of exile, his life was exposed to deadly perils every day and every night. During this entire period of more than 1000 days, Umar, like many other Muslims in Makkah, was the silent spectator of the ordeals of his master. He made no attempt to bring those ordeals to an end.

Muhammad Mustafa established brotherhood among Muslims both in Makkah and in Medina. In Makkah, he made Umar the “brother” of Abu Bakr, and in Medina, he made him the “brother” of Utban bin Malik. For his own brother, Muhammad chose Ali ibn Abi Talib in both cities.

In 3 A.H., Umar's daughter, Hafsa, was married to the Apostle.

Umar was one of the fugitives of the battle of Uhud (Baladhuri). He himself said later;

“When Muslim were defeated in Uhud, I ran toward the mountain.” (Suyuti in al-Durr al-Manthoor).

At the siege of Khyber, Umar made an attempt to capture the fortress but failed.

Umar was one of the fugitives of the battle of Hunayn. Abu Qatada, a companion of the Prophet, says: “In Hunayn when the Muslims were fleeing, I also fled, and I saw Umar with others.” (Bukhari and Kitabul-Maghazi).

In 8 A.H. the Apostle sent Umar as a ranker with many others to report for duty to Amr bin Aas, their commanding officer, in the campaign of Dhat es-Salasil.

In 11 A.H. the Apostle of God organized the Syrian expedition and he appointed Usama bin Zayd bin Haritha as its general. He ordered Umar to serve as a ranker in the expedition.

Though Umar spent eighteen years in the company of Muhammad Mustafa, the Messenger of God, the latter never appointed him to any position of authority, civil or military.

When the Apostle of God was on his deathbed, he asked the companions to bring pen, paper and ink so he might dictate his will but Umar defied him. He did not let the Apostle dictate his will and testament.

Umar was not present at the funeral of the Prophet of Islam. He was brawling with the Ansar in the outhouse of Saqifa when the body of the Prophet was being buried.

Umar was the khalifa-maker of Abu Bakr. During Abu Bakr's khilafat, Umar was his principal adviser.

In the previous post, you said, "I haven't condemned Khalid or Abu Bakr or Umar or Muawiya in Hell or anywhere else" whereas what you have copy-pasted regarding Umar (ra) says otherwise.

I can refute you on every single point but why waste my time when your own first "infallible" Imam (ra) darkened your faces by marrying his own daughter to Umar (ra).  So, according to your principle, Imam Ali (ra) married his daughter to such a horrible man.  So much for being a "Divinely Appointed Guide" having "knowledge of the unseen".
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 11, 2019, 04:04:08 AM
Companion of the Prophet s.a.w, what would be the definition of a companion and who would you consider a companion. Someone in the company of the Prophet s.a.w?

Sehih Bukhari
Volume 8, Book 81, Number 771 :
Narrated by 'Umar bin Al-Khattab
During the lifetime of the Prophet there was a man called 'Abdullah whose nickname was Donkey, and he used to make Allah's Apostle laugh. The Prophet lashed him because of drinking (alcohol). And one-day he was brought to the Prophet on the same charge and was lashed. On that, a man among the people said, "O Allah, curse him ! How frequently he has been brought (to the Prophet on such a charge)!" The Prophet said, "Do not curse him, for by Allah, I know for he loves Allah and His Apostle."

"I can refute you on every single point but why waste my time when your own first "infallible" Imam (ra) darkened your faces by marrying his own daughter to Umar (ra)"

We don't believe in these made up tales. It doesn't even add up. Fatima was too young for him never mind about her daughter.

"So, according to your principle, Imam Ali (ra) married his daughter to such a horrible man"

No he didn't. When he asked for Fatima's hand in marriage the Prophet s.a.w turned him down saying "Fatima is too young". Put something forward that adds up and makes sense.

So much for being a "Divinely Appointed Guide" having "knowledge of the unseen".

😀
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 11, 2019, 04:20:54 AM
Just for you Muslim 720,

Qur'an (3:180)

"And let not those who [greedily] withhold what Allah has given them of His bounty ever think that it is better for them. Rather, it is worse for them. Their necks will be encircled by what they withheld on the Day of Resurrection. And to Allah belongs the heritage of the heavens and the earth. And Allah, with what you do, is [fully] Acquainted"

Sehih Bukhari
Volume 2, Book 24, Number 486 :
Narrated by Abu Huraira

"Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever is made wealthy by Allah and does not pay the Zakat of his wealth, then on the Day of Resurrection his wealth will be made like a bald-headed poisonous male snake with two black spots over the eyes. The snake will encircle his neck and bite his cheeks and say, 'I am your wealth, I am your treasure.' " Then the Prophet recited the holy verses:-- 'Let not those who withhold . . .' (to the end of the verse). (3.180)."

My dear absolutely nothing in the Qur'an or Bukhari about capital punishment if you don't pay Zakah. 😊
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on January 11, 2019, 04:24:29 AM
We don't believe in these made up tales.

Not surprised by you denying another fact.  You do not even obey your own "infallible" Imams (ra) on their ruling on those who refuse to pay or give Zakat.

Quote
It doesn't even add up. Fatima was too young for him never mind about her daughter.

You can ask your first "infallible" Imam (ra) why he married such a young girl to Umar (ra).

By the way, did you find the punishment prescribed by Allah (swt) that I quoted from the Qur'an?  I knew you would not dare respond because not only do we (Sunnis) always school you on the Qur'an, we actually gave you the Qur'an, lol.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 12, 2019, 04:16:49 AM
Not surprised by you denying another fact.  You do not even obey your own "infallible" Imams (ra) on their ruling on those who refuse to pay or give Zakat.

You can ask your first "infallible" Imam (ra) why he married such a young girl to Umar (ra).

By the way, did you find the punishment prescribed by Allah (swt) that I quoted from the Qur'an?  I knew you would not dare respond because not only do we (Sunnis) always school you on the Qur'an, we actually gave you the Qur'an, lol.

"Not surprised by you denying another fact.  You do not even obey your own "infallible" Imams (ra) on their ruling on those who refuse to pay or give Zakat"

CAN YOU PROVE IT FROM THE QUR'AN. CAN YOU REALLY DIG IT.

"You can ask your first "infallible" Imam (ra) why he married such a young girl to Umar (ra)"

HE DIDN'T. He wasn't good enough for Fatima. He was turned down there point blank. Would you marry your daughter to a great grandfather? He was Fatima's grandfather. So that would make him Kulsoom's great grandfather. These silly stories were created by the Ummayads.

"By the way, did you find the punishment prescribed by Allah (swt) that I quoted from the Qur'an?"

Come again. Since you and your sidekicks bring in so much irrelevant stuff one does loose track. It's obvious if you've got a pack of hyenas to deal with at the same time.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 13, 2019, 09:29:24 AM
Sehih Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 83, Number 5 :
Narrated by Al-Miqdad bin 'Amr Al-Kindi

"An ally of Bani Zuhra who took part in the battle of Badr with the Prophet, that he said, "O Allah's Apostle! If I meet an unbeliever and we have a fight, and he strikes my hand with the sword and cuts it off, and then takes refuge from me under a tree, and says, 'I have surrendered to Allah (i.e. embraced Islam),' may I kill him after he has said so?"

Allah's Apostle said, "Do not kill him." Al-Miqdad said, "But O Allah's Apostle! He had chopped off one of my hands and he said that after he had cut it off. May I kill him?" The Prophet said. "Do not kill him for if you kill him, he would be in the position in which you had been before you kill him, and you would be in the position in which he was before he said the sentence."

The Prophet also said to Al-Miqdad, "If a faithful believer conceals his faith (Islam) from the disbelievers, and then when he declares his Islam, you kill him, (you will be sinful). Remember that you were also concealing your faith (Islam) at Mecca before."

CONCEALS HIS FAITH? There's certain people who keep yapping on about TAQIYYAH. There you go.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 13, 2019, 09:38:43 AM
Here is a list of 100 questions I prepared for Shias to answer.

https://shiacult.webnode.com/challenges/a100-questions/

Question 4, Can a Prophet, who is divinely appointed, render allegiance to a false prophet? If yes, then give any example from the seerah of the Prophets. If no, then how can an Imam, who is divinely appointed according to you, render allegiance to a false Imam?

Answer 4,
a, (Can a Prophet, who is divinely appointed, render allegiance to a false prophet?) NO.

b, (If no, then how can an Imam, who is divinely appointed according to you, render allegiance to a false Imam?)

No they can't. Who said anyone did? Don't go by false reports created by those who got into authority and used their influence, connections and power to suit their needs and make themselves look just and good.

Question 5. Did Ali distributed the inheritance of the Prophet (peace be upon him) amongst the inheritors especially Fadak?

Answer 5. No he didn't because they didn't accept him as the successor to Muhammad s.a.w nor was he the first Caliph of the Muslims.

This was the duty of the first Caliph since he took control of the lands and property belonging to Muhammad s.a.w.

Question 6. Is it true that even the Imams didn't mention Imamate to their children? Because we find in the Shia books that some of the children of the Imams were also unaware of the Imamate of their fathers.

Answer 6. I don't think this is true. But being open minded and looking at both sides of the argument, the Imams along with their family, friends, relatives, supporters and believers faced persecution. They were looked at badly and treated brutally. Taqiyyah had been the only choice for some.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 13, 2019, 09:53:12 AM
Question 7. Does the Progeny include the 12 Imams only? If not, then how do you exclude the others from the Hadith Thaqalayn?

Answer 7. Yes we do believe that the 12 Imams are from the progeny of the Prophet s.a.w.

1. `Ali Ibn Abi Talib quoted the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) as saying: “Al-Mahdi is one of us, the clan of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). Allah will reform him in one night.”
(Reported by Imam Ahmad and Ibn Maqah).

The world will not come to pass until a man from among my family, whose name will be my name, rules over the Arabs.
(Tirmidhi Sahih, Vol. 9, P. 74; Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 5, P. 207;
also narrated by Ali b. Abi Talib, Abu Sa'id, Umm Salma, Abu Hurayra)

The Prophet(SAW) said:

Allah will bring out from concealment al-Mahdi from my family and just before the day of Judgment; even if only one day were to remain in the life of the world, and he will spread on this earth justice and equity and will eradicate tyranny and oppression.
(Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Vol. 1, P. 99)

Hadhrat Ali(RA) narrates that Rasulullah(SAW) said:

Even if only a day remains for Qiyamah to come, yet Allah will surely send a man from my family who will fill this world with such justice and fairness, just as it initially was filled with oppression.
(Abu Dawood)

Ali b. Abi Talib(RA) has related a tradition from the Prophet(SAW) who informed him:

The promised Mahdi will be among my family. God will make the provisions for his emergence within a single night.
(Ibn Majah, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 519)

Hazrat Umme Salmah(RA), Prophet's wife, narrates that she heard the Prophet(SAW) say:

The promised Mahdi will be among my progeny, among the descendants of Fatima.
(Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 207; Ibn Majah, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 519)

Rasulullah(SAW) announced:

The Mahdi will be of my family, of the descendants of Fatima (the Prophet's daughter). (Sunan Ibn Majah, Vol. 2, Tradition No. 4086)

The Prophet(SAW) taught:

Al-Mahdi is one of us, the members of the household (Ahlul-Bayt).
(Sunan Ibn Majah, Vol. 2, Tradition No. 4085)

Abu Sa'id al-Khudari(RA) narrated that the Prophet(SAW) said:

Our Mahdi will have a broad forehead and a pointed (prominent) nose. He will fill the earth with justice as it is filled with injustice and tyranny. He will rule for seven years.
(Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 2, p. 208; Fusul al-muhimma, p. 275)

Hadhrat Abu Saeed Khudri(RA) relates that Rasulullah(SAW) said:

Al Mahdi will be from my progeny. His forehead will be broad and his nose will be high. He will fill the world with justice and fairness at a time when the world will be filled with oppression. He will rule for seven years.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Abu Muhammad on January 13, 2019, 01:23:46 PM
Question 7. Does the Progeny include the 12 Imams only? If not, then how do you exclude the others from the Hadith Thaqalayn?

Answer 7. Yes we do believe that the 12 Imams are from the progeny of the Prophet s.a.w.

1. `Ali Ibn Abi Talib quoted the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) as saying: “Al-Mahdi is one of us, the clan of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). Allah will reform him in one night.”
(Reported by Imam Ahmad and Ibn Maqah).

The world will not come to pass until a man from among my family, whose name will be my name, rules over the Arabs.
(Tirmidhi Sahih, Vol. 9, P. 74; Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 5, P. 207;
also narrated by Ali b. Abi Talib, Abu Sa'id, Umm Salma, Abu Hurayra)

The Prophet(SAW) said:

Allah will bring out from concealment al-Mahdi from my family and just before the day of Judgment; even if only one day were to remain in the life of the world, and he will spread on this earth justice and equity and will eradicate tyranny and oppression.
(Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Vol. 1, P. 99)

Hadhrat Ali(RA) narrates that Rasulullah(SAW) said:

Even if only a day remains for Qiyamah to come, yet Allah will surely send a man from my family who will fill this world with such justice and fairness, just as it initially was filled with oppression.
(Abu Dawood)

Ali b. Abi Talib(RA) has related a tradition from the Prophet(SAW) who informed him:

The promised Mahdi will be among my family. God will make the provisions for his emergence within a single night.
(Ibn Majah, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 519)

Hazrat Umme Salmah(RA), Prophet's wife, narrates that she heard the Prophet(SAW) say:

The promised Mahdi will be among my progeny, among the descendants of Fatima.
(Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 207; Ibn Majah, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 519)

Rasulullah(SAW) announced:

The Mahdi will be of my family, of the descendants of Fatima (the Prophet's daughter). (Sunan Ibn Majah, Vol. 2, Tradition No. 4086)

The Prophet(SAW) taught:

Al-Mahdi is one of us, the members of the household (Ahlul-Bayt).
(Sunan Ibn Majah, Vol. 2, Tradition No. 4085)

Abu Sa'id al-Khudari(RA) narrated that the Prophet(SAW) said:

Our Mahdi will have a broad forehead and a pointed (prominent) nose. He will fill the earth with justice as it is filled with injustice and tyranny. He will rule for seven years.
(Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 2, p. 208; Fusul al-muhimma, p. 275)

Hadhrat Abu Saeed Khudri(RA) relates that Rasulullah(SAW) said:

Al Mahdi will be from my progeny. His forehead will be broad and his nose will be high. He will fill the world with justice and fairness at a time when the world will be filled with oppression. He will rule for seven years.

Poor you. The question asked about something and you answered TOTALLY something else.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 13, 2019, 02:25:38 PM
Poor you. The question asked about something and you answered TOTALLY something else.

Thankyou for feeling sorry for me. It's nice of you to show a bit of the soft side. I didn’t know you had one. Why don't you help the poor man out here. Would you like to rephrase the question. Didn't care to comment on anything else or just didn't bother.😊
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 13, 2019, 02:43:28 PM
Question 8. How is it possible that the Companions didn't help Ali when Abu Bakr was being chosen as Caliph, but they helped Ali when he fought against Muawiyah?

Answer 8. What kind of help do you mean? Raising arms or going for an armed resistance? Some helped Ali by keeping it peaceful, others sided with either Abu Bakr or just accepted the decision in Saqifa or were made or forced to accept. Some didn't care, who ever or what ever.

Ali didn't fight against Muawiya. Muawiyah didn't fight against Ali. Muawiyah disregarded Ali's position of Caliphate and refused to give allegiance to him over demands concerning the murder of Usman. Muawiyah put up an armed resistance, not against Ali but against the 4th rightly guided Caliph of the Muslims. The situation was different here.

The circumstances concerning the two characters, Abu Bakr and Muawiya, was very different. And they were of different nature and stance as well
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 13, 2019, 03:27:00 PM
Poor you. The question asked about something and you answered TOTALLY something else.

That’s just another step of his just short of LYING........he is a bit deranged, you ask him a question and the kid goes on a tangent on something completely different, he tried it with Imamate and divine Imamate on me and was cocky sure he was right and then.......BLANK the unashamed guy that he is didn’t even acknowledge his mistake and kept on being stubborn, whether it’s on purpose or not i don’t know but the kid has less braincells than the average human, human? Chimps better.😜👍
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 13, 2019, 03:30:42 PM
That’s just another step of his just short of LYING........he is a bit deranged, you ask him a question and the kid goes on a tangent on something completely different, he tried it with Imamate and divine Imamate on me and was cocky sure he was right and then.......BLANK the unashamed guy that he is didn’t even acknowledge his mistake and kept on being stubborn, whether it’s on purpose or not i don’t know but the kid has less braincells than the average human, human? Chimps better.😜👍

Rather than letting off a tantrum and then crying over it, just spell it out. If it's not too difficult for you. Or if it doesn't sting you.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 13, 2019, 03:55:17 PM
Rather than letting off a tantrum and then crying over it, just spell it out. If it's not too difficult for you. Or if it doesn't sting you.

Spell what out? You know what I am talking about as you did say....”give me a moment and I will get the post”........well?? It’s been 2 days and you haven’t produced it or neither apologised for your mistake.
Is this what believing in divine imams does to you?
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Abu Muhammad on January 13, 2019, 06:21:27 PM
Thankyou for feeling sorry for me. It's nice of you to show a bit of the soft side. I didn’t know you had one. Why don't you help the poor man out here. Would you like to rephrase the question. Didn't care to comment on anything else or just didn't bother.😊
You make Twelvers look like a fool with your poor comprehension. And I can fully understand why some of the brothers stop responding to you.

Question 7. Does the Progeny include the 12 Imams only? If not, then how do you exclude the others from the Hadith Thaqalayn?

Can't you differentiate between "12 imams" as per asked in the question and "12th imam" as per your answer?
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 13, 2019, 06:45:57 PM
Spell what out? You know what I am talking about as you did say....”give me a moment and I will get the post”........well?? It’s been 2 days and you haven’t produced it or neither apologised for your mistake.
Is this what believing in divine imams does to you?

What exactly are you talking about. Because you mouth off a lot. You come out with insults and tantrums. You bring in irrelevant stuff. Here's to calm you down.

"Right chuck.......... so what was the test of the imams ra? And when did the Quran and prophet saw Himself state that NOW He Muhammad saw is an imam AFTER passing the test of prophet hood?"

The above is what you said. I believe it was post #33. "Right chuck" you accepted that there is Imamah in the Qur'an just like your buddy Muslim 720 who also accepted.

First you danced around Imamah and put up a confrontational stance. Then you accepted Imamah and now you are dancing over divinity.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 13, 2019, 07:11:11 PM
What exactly are you talking about. Because you mouth off a lot. You come out with insults and tantrums. You bring in irrelevant stuff. Here's to calm you down.

"Right chuck.......... so what was the test of the imams ra? And when did the Quran and prophet saw Himself state that NOW He Muhammad saw is an imam AFTER passing the test of prophet hood?"

The above is what you said. I believe it was post #33. "Right chuck" you accepted that there is Imamah in the Qur'an just like your buddy Muslim 720 who also accepted.

First you danced around Imamah and put up a confrontational stance. Then you accepted Imamah and now you are dancing over divinity.

You deceitful little lying rat yes you are and I honestly mean that, that post of mine you quoted you lying rat was about DIVINE imams the THEME of our correspondence was on DIVINE imams and you knew that hence your replies back to me, don’t twist it now just because I didn’t write DIVINE in front of the word imam and you take it as proof I agree with Imamate (your fake version) in Quran? The DIVINE fake Imamate? Seriously? Are you for real? I mean how old are you, really.

I never disagreed there wasn’t mention of imams in the Quran NUMPTY!!

Your divine Imamate the imamah the Shiite concept/theory has no place in the Quran or in the verse you keep posting there is no divine Imamate concept theory or man, you just added that bit yourself.😉

That question from my post still stands and you never answered it instead you went into a frenzy and started  lies and excuses as can be seen......liar!

Stop lying and making excuses and trying to find ways out when cornered, be a man and admit your blunders, don’t be following liars and using their arguments, it only makes you into one as evidenced in this forum.

Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on January 13, 2019, 11:47:11 PM
CAN YOU PROVE IT FROM THE QUR'AN. CAN YOU REALLY DIG IT.

It is extremely hypocritical of you to try to (in vain) prove Imamah and then disobey your own Imams (ra) on the punishment for not paying or giving Zakat, lol.

Quote
HE DIDN'T.

Denial of facts won't help you!  Your own books admit that Umar (ra) was married to the daughter of Imam Ali (ra).

Quote
He wasn't good enough for Fatima. He was turned down there point blank.

You are the first person who I am hearing this from!  Please prove to me, using authentic sources, that Umar (ra) proposed for Fatima's (ra) hand.

Quote
Would you marry your daughter to a great grandfather? He was Fatima's grandfather. So that would make him Kulsoom's great grandfather.

I may not marry my daughter to a great-grandfather but your first "infallible" Imam (ra) did.

Quote
These silly stories were created by the Ummayads.

These stories are authentically narrated in your own books.  Are you saying that the Ummayads fabricated your books?  Hahaha!

Quote
Come again. Since you and your sidekicks bring in so much irrelevant stuff one does loose track. It's obvious if you've got a pack of hyenas to deal with at the same time.

Irrelevant stuff?  You asked me to account for the following hadith:
Narrated by Anas:
A group of people from 'Ukl (tribe) came to the Prophet and they were living with the people of As-Suffa, but they became ill as the climate of Medina did not suit them, so they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with milk."  The Prophet said, I see no other way for you than to use the camels of Allah's Apostle."  So they went and drank the milk and urine of the camels, (as medicine) and became healthy and fat.  Then they killed the shepherd and took the camels away.  When a help-seeker came to Allah's Apostle, he sent some men in their pursuit, and they were captured and brought before mid day.  The Prophet ordered for some iron pieces to be made red hot, and their eyes were branded with them and their hands and feet were cut off and were not cauterized.  Then they were put at a place called Al-Harra, and when they asked for water to drink they were not given till they died.

The Qur'an answers you:
"The recompense of those who fight Allah and His messenger, and seek to make corruption in the land, is that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from alternate sides or that they be banished from the land; that is their disgrace in this world and in the Hereafter they will have a great torment." (Qur'an 5:33)
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 14, 2019, 01:56:29 AM
It is extremely hypocritical of you to try to (in vain) prove Imamah and then disobey your own Imams (ra) on the punishment for not paying or giving Zakat, lol."

I don't know what the fuss is all about. There is something in the books, be it kutab e Arbaa or sehih sitha, it doesn't matter, all I'm asking is 'is there any sort of proof within the Qur'an of such an important matter'. That's all I'm asking. Or do you believe that it isn't necessary that every important and serious matter has to be mentioned or given in the Qur'an.

For example, if the government makes a decision and orders employers, businesses, banks etc to deduct Zakat straight out of people's income be it accounts, salary etc and it goes to the treasury, is this allowed according to Sharia law? Can the government or local authority take zakat from you in such a manner? What does the Qur'an say about this.

Example two, inheritance is the right of every Muslim and Muslimah. Now according to the Qur'an if one asks for her share of inheritance and the other denies it because of a hadith on such an important matter that "We (Messengers and Prophets) do not leave anything behind for inheritance and to be inherited, but what we do leave behind is for charity and charitable purpose ony", this is a very important and serious matter. Any indication of this in the Qur'an?

Or can anyone come up with anything they like and say and we take it at face value and their character is good enough for it to be accepted regardless of how the other feels and sees?
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on January 14, 2019, 04:56:03 AM
I don't know what the fuss is all about. There is something in the books, be it kutab e Arbaa or sehih sitha, it doesn't matter, all I'm asking is 'is there any sort of proof within the Qur'an of such an important matter'.

The fuss, melting Iceman, is that you would not have had a particular form of theology without your four main books.  Furthermore, disobedience to the Imams (ra) is kufr, according to your school.  You have two choices now:

1.  Accept your authentic narrations and stop defending Malik bin Nuwayrah.

                                               OR

2.  Unsubscribe from Shiaism.

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That's all I'm asking. Or do you believe that it isn't necessary that every important and serious matter has to be mentioned or given in the Qur'an.

Zakat is mentioned in the Qur'an and is therefore a Qur'anic injunction.  Disbelief in a Qur'anic teaching renders one to be an apostate.  Your books and ours agree with this principle.  Only you are looking to split hair.

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For example, if the government makes a decision and orders employers, businesses, banks etc to deduct Zakat straight out of people's income be it accounts, salary etc and it goes to the treasury, is this allowed according to Sharia law? Can the government or local authority take zakat from you in such a manner? What does the Qur'an say about this.

Malik did not challenge the methodology of collecting Zakat; he openly declared that Zakat had been abolished.  You are actually making this more and more embarrassing for yourself instead of helping your case.

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Example two, inheritance is the right of every Muslim and Muslimah. Now according to the Qur'an if one asks for her share of inheritance and the other denies it because of a hadith on such an important matter that "We (Messengers and Prophets) do not leave anything behind for inheritance and to be inherited, but what we do leave behind is for charity and charitable purpose ony", this is a very important and serious matter. Any indication of this in the Qur'an?

Classic Iceman!  Introducing another irrelevant matter!

Quote
Or can anyone come up with anything they like and say and we take it at face value and their character is good enough for it to be accepted regardless of how the other feels and sees?

Like you!  Running your mouth and then getting owned. 

Stop running from your own blunder.  Although many to keep track of, please respond to this:

Narrated by Anas:
A group of people from 'Ukl (tribe) came to the Prophet and they were living with the people of As-Suffa, but they became ill as the climate of Medina did not suit them, so they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with milk."  The Prophet said, I see no other way for you than to use the camels of Allah's Apostle."  So they went and drank the milk and urine of the camels, (as medicine) and became healthy and fat.  Then they killed the shepherd and took the camels away.  When a help-seeker came to Allah's Apostle, he sent some men in their pursuit, and they were captured and brought before mid day.  The Prophet ordered for some iron pieces to be made red hot, and their eyes were branded with them and their hands and feet were cut off and were not cauterized.  Then they were put at a place called Al-Harra, and when they asked for water to drink they were not given till they died.

The Qur'an answers you:
"The recompense of those who fight Allah and His messenger, and seek to make corruption in the land, is that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from alternate sides or that they be banished from the land; that is their disgrace in this world and in the Hereafter they will have a great torment." (Qur'an 5:33)

Do you retract your statement that such a punishment violates the Qur'an and Sunnah?
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 14, 2019, 03:45:43 PM
The fuss, melting Iceman, is that you would not have had a particular form of theology without your four main books.  Furthermore, disobedience to the Imams (ra) is kufr, according to your school.  You have two choices now:

1.  Accept your authentic narrations and stop defending Malik bin Nuwayrah.

                                               OR

2.  Unsubscribe from Shiaism.

Zakat is mentioned in the Qur'an and is therefore a Qur'anic injunction.  Disbelief in a Qur'anic teaching renders one to be an apostate.  Your books and ours agree with this principle.  Only you are looking to split hair.

Malik did not challenge the methodology of collecting Zakat; he openly declared that Zakat had been abolished.  You are actually making this more and more embarrassing for yourself instead of helping your case.

Classic Iceman!  Introducing another irrelevant matter!

Like you!  Running your mouth and then getting owned. 

Stop running from your own blunder.  Although many to keep track of, please respond to this:

Narrated by Anas:
A group of people from 'Ukl (tribe) came to the Prophet and they were living with the people of As-Suffa, but they became ill as the climate of Medina did not suit them, so they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with milk."  The Prophet said, I see no other way for you than to use the camels of Allah's Apostle."  So they went and drank the milk and urine of the camels, (as medicine) and became healthy and fat.  Then they killed the shepherd and took the camels away.  When a help-seeker came to Allah's Apostle, he sent some men in their pursuit, and they were captured and brought before mid day.  The Prophet ordered for some iron pieces to be made red hot, and their eyes were branded with them and their hands and feet were cut off and were not cauterized.  Then they were put at a place called Al-Harra, and when they asked for water to drink they were not given till they died.

The Qur'an answers you:
"The recompense of those who fight Allah and His messenger, and seek to make corruption in the land, is that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from alternate sides or that they be banished from the land; that is their disgrace in this world and in the Hereafter they will have a great torment." (Qur'an 5:33)

Do you retract your statement that such a punishment violates the Qur'an and Sunnah?

Whether it's the 4 books or the 6 books, they all depend and rely on one main book, and that is the Qur'an. Otherwise anyone can come up with anything and start believing in it.

Apart from this there are many things in these books, be it 4 or 6 it doesn't matter, which aren't accepted by both parties, and one (from both sides) has asked references from the Qur'an to confirm its authenticity and legitimacy.

Either accept this, the Qur'an is the main and only sources. And if someone can't back it up what ever it may be then you're just beating around the bush.

Or accept this, it is not necessary that everything serious and important has to be in and from the Qur'an. And the words of Aimah, Auliya, Scholars etc is enough and acceptable.

You can't and shouldn't have DOUBLE STANDARDS. When you're given references from books you refuse to accept them and you bang on about the Qur'an. But you believe in the books and you provide references from the same books to prove and your claim.

At the end of your post you've mentioned a narration from Anas and you've backed it straight and direct from the Qur'an. But some narrations I've provided or you've put forward and I've asked you to do exactly the same thing and that is back it up from the Qur'an.

And you........
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on January 14, 2019, 04:03:49 PM
Apart from this there are many things in these books, be it 4 or 6 it doesn't matter, which aren't accepted by both parties, and one (from both sides) has asked references from the Qur'an to confirm its authenticity and legitimacy.

So we can safely conclude that you argue for Imamah, however, you do not obey the Imams (ra) yourself.  Very convenient!

Quote
Either accept this, the Qur'an is the main and only sources. And if someone can't back it up what ever it may be then you're just beating around the bush.

I darkened your face using the Qur'an and you are still running from it.

Narrated by Anas:
A group of people from 'Ukl (tribe) came to the Prophet and they were living with the people of As-Suffa, but they became ill as the climate of Medina did not suit them, so they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with milk."  The Prophet said, I see no other way for you than to use the camels of Allah's Apostle."  So they went and drank the milk and urine of the camels, (as medicine) and became healthy and fat.  Then they killed the shepherd and took the camels away.  When a help-seeker came to Allah's Apostle, he sent some men in their pursuit, and they were captured and brought before mid day.  The Prophet ordered for some iron pieces to be made red hot, and their eyes were branded with them and their hands and feet were cut off and were not cauterized.  Then they were put at a place called Al-Harra, and when they asked for water to drink they were not given till they died.

The Qur'an answers you:
"The recompense of those who fight Allah and His messenger, and seek to make corruption in the land, is that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from alternate sides or that they be banished from the land; that is their disgrace in this world and in the Hereafter they will have a great torment." (Qur'an 5:33)

Waiting for you to retract your statement and issue an apology.

Quote
Or accept this, it is not necessary that everything serious and important has to be in and from the Qur'an. And the words of Aimah, Auliya, Scholars etc is enough and acceptable.

Important Islamic injunctions must be mentioned in the Qur'an.  Their details can be found in authentic Sunnah but matters of creed must be rooted in the Qur'an.

Quote
You can't and shouldn't have DOUBLE STANDARDS.

Says the guy who supports Imamah but refuses to obey the Imams (ra), lol.

Quote
At the end of your post you've mentioned a narration from Anas and you've backed it straight and direct from the Qur'an. But some narrations I've provided or you've put forward and I've asked you to do exactly the same thing and that is back it up from the Qur'an.

Oh, I see!  So you will keep posting narrations to see how many I can link back to the Qur'an.  No, we do not play by your rules.  I just wanted to show you that you do not know the Qur'an.  And that is your auqaat!
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 14, 2019, 09:29:44 PM
So we can safely conclude that you argue for Imamah, however, you do not obey the Imams (ra) yourself.  Very convenient!

I darkened your face using the Qur'an and you are still running from it.

Narrated by Anas:
A group of people from 'Ukl (tribe) came to the Prophet and they were living with the people of As-Suffa, but they became ill as the climate of Medina did not suit them, so they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with milk."  The Prophet said, I see no other way for you than to use the camels of Allah's Apostle."  So they went and drank the milk and urine of the camels, (as medicine) and became healthy and fat.  Then they killed the shepherd and took the camels away.  When a help-seeker came to Allah's Apostle, he sent some men in their pursuit, and they were captured and brought before mid day.  The Prophet ordered for some iron pieces to be made red hot, and their eyes were branded with them and their hands and feet were cut off and were not cauterized.  Then they were put at a place called Al-Harra, and when they asked for water to drink they were not given till they died.

The Qur'an answers you:
"The recompense of those who fight Allah and His messenger, and seek to make corruption in the land, is that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from alternate sides or that they be banished from the land; that is their disgrace in this world and in the Hereafter they will have a great torment." (Qur'an 5:33)

Waiting for you to retract your statement and issue an apology.

Important Islamic injunctions must be mentioned in the Qur'an.  Their details can be found in authentic Sunnah but matters of creed must be rooted in the Qur'an.

Says the guy who supports Imamah but refuses to obey the Imams (ra), lol.

Oh, I see!  So you will keep posting narrations to see how many I can link back to the Qur'an.  No, we do not play by your rules.  I just wanted to show you that you do not know the Qur'an.  And that is your auqaat!

"So we can safely conclude that you argue for Imamah, however, you do not obey the Imams (ra) yourself.  Very convenient!"

Or you can safely conclude that it isn't necessary that everything serious and important has to be in and from the Qur'an. Other sources, be it books or individuals, are acceptable.

If you agree to something and it suits you and your happy with then there is no need to turn towards the Qur'an. And if vice versa then you should also safely conclude that there is no need to turn towards the Qur'an.

I don't have anything against you, just your DOUBLE STANDARDS.

"I darkened your face using the Qur'an and you are still running from it"

No you haven't. I keep asking you to do exactly that but you keep running away on to other things just to divert attention.

About Zakah and about Fadak, both issues,  please do darken my face USING THE QUR'AN.

"Waiting for you to retract your statement and issue an apology"

I'm waiting for you to do exactly the same with the issue concerning Zakah and Fadak.

"No, we do not play by your rules"

I absolutely agree 100%. SO DON'T GET US TO PLAY BY YOURS EITHER.

"I just wanted to show you that you do not know the Qur'an.  And that is your auqaat!"

And I presume that you do? So prove and back the following from the Qur'an.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 15, 2019, 12:38:51 AM
Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet said,

"Our (Apostles') property should not be inherited, and whatever we leave, is to be spent in charity."

Abu Bakr said:

" I have heard from Allah's Apostle saying, 'Our property cannot be inherited, and whatever we leave is to be spent in charity"

Prove to me from the Qur'an that if you don't pay Zakah then you are subject to capital punishment.

Prove to me from the Qur'an that the ruling government have the right to take Zakah off you even against your will.

Go on, darken my face, prove this from the Qur'an.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Abu Muhammad on January 15, 2019, 03:50:49 AM
You make Twelvers look like a fool with your poor comprehension. And I can fully understand why some of the brothers stop responding to you.

Can't you differentiate between "12 imams" as per asked in the question and "12th imam" as per your answer?

Have you able to comprehend Question 7, @iceman?
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on January 15, 2019, 04:41:16 AM
Or you can safely conclude that it isn't necessary that everything serious and important has to be in and from the Qur'an. Other sources, be it books or individuals, are acceptable.

No, it is very clear for everyone to see that the one preaching Imamah cannot seem to obey his own "infallible" Imams (ra).  I do not blame you; it is easier to write about, and preach, fiction than to believe it.

As for every serious matter being in the Qur'an, Zakat is in the Qur'an whereas Imamah (in the Shi'i sense) is not.  I know it hurts; that is why we see you flatter in pain all over the place.

Quote
No you haven't. I keep asking you to do exactly that but you keep running away on to other things just to divert attention.

In Urdu, they say, "choree uppar se seena zoree".  In Dari, which is similar to your "divine" language of Farsi, we say, "naree wa gharee".

You brought a hadith from our book regarding certain men having their hands and feet chopped off and left to die.  On that basis, you said that our books contain "crap" and openly declared that such a practice is against the Qur'an and Sunnah.  I showed you the exact punishment from the Qur'an.  The fact that you are still arguing with me, instead of realizing your blunder and keeping your mouth shut, gives us a glimpse of your endless shamelessness.  However, I am not surprised.  So many Shias before you, even Syed Ali of Bayat-al-Ghadeer, mocked one of our narrations in one of the Sahihain and then we found out that the exact same thing is mentioned in the Qur'an.

We gave you the Qur'an, we educate you on it regularly and not even a thank-you.

Quote
About Zakah and about Fadak, both issues,  please do darken my face USING THE QUR'AN.

I'm waiting for you to do exactly the same with the issue concerning Zakah and Fadak.

Regarding Zakah, your own "infallible" Imam (ra) has declared refusal to pay or give Zakah a form of apostasy, punishable by death.  The fact that you reject the statement of your own Imam (ra) tells me that you will reject my Qur'anic references (on Fadak) which is exactly why I will share those references. 

As for Fadak, another red-herring introduced in the discussion, the Qur'an categorically and explicitly rejects the notion that Fay (which Fadak was) can have individual owners.

Surah Hashr verse 7:
"What God has bestowed on His Apostle (and taken away) from the people of the townships,- belongs to God,- to His Apostle and to kindred and orphans, the needy and the wayfarer; in order that it may not (merely) make a circuit between the wealthy among you. So take what the Apostle assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you. And fear God; for God is strict in Punishment."

Translation, such a property cannot be under the ownership of a few, let alone one individual.

Quote
And I presume that you do? So prove and back the following from the Qur'an.

I did!  The Qur'an agrees with the punishment meted out to those men (as stated in Sahih Bukhari) and it also refutes the notion that Fay can have individual owner(s).
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 15, 2019, 09:22:38 AM
Have you able to comprehend Question 7, @iceman?

Would you like to be my guest and break down question 7 for me. Before I give another unsatisfactory answer or something along those lines.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 15, 2019, 10:16:42 AM
No, it is very clear for everyone to see that the one preaching Imamah cannot seem to obey his own "infallible" Imams (ra).  I do not blame you; it is easier to write about, and preach, fiction than to believe it.

As for every serious matter being in the Qur'an, Zakat is in the Qur'an whereas Imamah (in the Shi'i sense) is not.  I know it hurts; that is why we see you flatter in pain all over the place.

In Urdu, they say, "choree uppar se seena zoree".  In Dari, which is similar to your "divine" language of Farsi, we say, "naree wa gharee".

You brought a hadith from our book regarding certain men having their hands and feet chopped off and left to die.  On that basis, you said that our books contain "crap" and openly declared that such a practice is against the Qur'an and Sunnah.  I showed you the exact punishment from the Qur'an.  The fact that you are still arguing with me, instead of realizing your blunder and keeping your mouth shut, gives us a glimpse of your endless shamelessness.  However, I am not surprised.  So many Shias before you, even Syed Ali of Bayat-al-Ghadeer, mocked one of our narrations in one of the Sahihain and then we found out that the exact same thing is mentioned in the Qur'an.

We gave you the Qur'an, we educate you on it regularly and not even a thank-you.

Regarding Zakah, your own "infallible" Imam (ra) has declared refusal to pay or give Zakah a form of apostasy, punishable by death.  The fact that you reject the statement of your own Imam (ra) tells me that you will reject my Qur'anic references (on Fadak) which is exactly why I will share those references. 

As for Fadak, another red-herring introduced in the discussion, the Qur'an categorically and explicitly rejects the notion that Fay (which Fadak was) can have individual owners.

Surah Hashr verse 7:
"What God has bestowed on His Apostle (and taken away) from the people of the townships,- belongs to God,- to His Apostle and to kindred and orphans, the needy and the wayfarer; in order that it may not (merely) make a circuit between the wealthy among you. So take what the Apostle assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you. And fear God; for God is strict in Punishment."

Translation, such a property cannot be under the ownership of a few, let alone one individual.

I did!  The Qur'an agrees with the punishment meted out to those men (as stated in Sahih Bukhari) and it also refutes the notion that Fay can have individual owner(s).

"No, it is very clear for everyone to see that the one preaching Imamah cannot seem to obey his own "infallible" Imams (ra).  I do not blame you; it is easier to write about, and preach, fiction than to believe it"

Oh I most definitely believe them and in them but not everything that is attributed towards them or linked to them. Qur'an is the scale, the measuring device. You keep yapping on but can't produce anything from the Qur'an concerning what I asked. Keep beating around the bush.

"As for every serious matter being in the Qur'an, Zakat is in the Qur'an whereas Imamah (in the Shi'i sense) is not.  I know it hurts; that is why we see you flatter in pain all over the place"

First it was "prove Imamah from the Qur'an" and you put up a confrontational stance on that. Then you finally accepted that and now we have "prove Imamah (in shia sense)" in brackets. I say at least we're getting somewhere. Imamah has been proven from the Qur'an and you've eventually accepted it. That's a breakthrough. So we can move forward from here.

Zakat is mentioned in the Qur'an and so is Imamah. The rest of the details lie with the Prophet. And the Prophet s.a.w has mentioned about Zakah and Imamah.

"In Urdu, they say, "choree uppar se seena zoree".  In Dari, which is similar to your "divine" language of Farsi, we say, "naree wa gharee"

Yes I'm familiar with that phrase. That's exactly what you're doing. You demand but unfortunately can't deliver when asked.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 15, 2019, 10:37:45 AM

Zakat is mentioned in the Qur'an and so is Imamah. The rest of the details lie with the Prophet. And the Prophet s.a.w has mentioned about Zakah and Imamah.


Divine Imamate is NOT in the Quran and you know it, you ADD divine in yourself and you know it since you cannot prove it from the Quran you have to twist the word imam to a divine one and use prophets as examples by using one verse that is vague on divine Imamate.

The prophet saw NEVER gave details or established or guided us to a nonsense stupid belief of divine imams either, only in Shiite beliefs does a prophet contradict the Quran astaghfirullah by not being promoted to a divine imam.

“Prophethood “divine” messegerhood “divine” imam “divine” “

So where is or was the automatic promotion?

Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 15, 2019, 12:20:40 PM
Divine Imamate is NOT in the Quran and you know it, you ADD divine in yourself and you know it since you cannot prove it from the Quran you have to twist the word imam to a divine one and use prophets as examples by using one verse that is vague on divine Imamate.

The prophet saw NEVER gave details or established or guided us to a nonsense stupid belief of divine imams either, only in Shiite beliefs does a prophet contradict the Quran astaghfirullah by not being promoted to a divine imam.

“Prophethood “divine” messegerhood “divine” imam “divine” “

So where is or was the automatic promotion?

No it don't. Just as Messenger hood and Prophecy is divine so is Imamah. You tell me or in fact ask yourself was Abraham promoted, was he demoted, was he given a title of a similar status or was it something else? Or what do you make of it?

What is the whole point of Abraham being tried and then being made an Imam. What's point? What's the catch here? Are you going to say there was no means to it? Allah gave examples in the Qur'an. When was Muhammad s.a.w promoted? You need to ask Allah that. You won't get every single thing in the Qur'an.

If that's how you are going to throw questions around one after the other based on ifs and buts then ask yourself this, how many Messengers have there been? 124,000. Can you prove this from the Qur'an? Can you give me the names of all 124,000 from the Qur'an?

See what I mean. Stop being silly. Abraham was promoted because he was a Messenger and a Prophet before being made an Imam.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 15, 2019, 01:44:57 PM
No it don't. Just as Messenger hood and Prophecy is divine so is Imamah. You tell me or in fact ask yourself was Abraham promoted, was he demoted, was he given a title of a similar status or was it something else? Or what do you make of it?

What is the whole point of Abraham being tried and then being made an Imam. What's point? What's the catch here? Are you going to say there was no means to it? Allah gave examples in the Qur'an. When was Muhammad s.a.w promoted? You need to ask Allah that. You won't get every single thing in the Qur'an.

If that's how you are going to throw questions around one after the other based on ifs and buts then ask yourself this, how many Messengers have there been? 124,000. Can you prove this from the Qur'an? Can you give me the names of all 124,000 from the Qur'an?

See what I mean. Stop being silly. Abraham was promoted because he was a Messenger and a Prophet before being made an Imam.

Lol 😂😂😂😂😂 iceman Shiites great intellectual logic comes into play.

Allah swt sends divine imamah as a promotion after prophethood and icebox carries on with that idea, when you ask icebox why the same formula isn’t at play with the last prophet saw......he icebox says.......”you need to ask Allah swt that”

This guy believes in a divine Imamate that he doesn’t know why Allah swt didn’t bless the last prophet saw with!

So like I said divine Imamate is a figment of your imagination that’s not been implemented or is true and you can’t for the life of you explain or find such a stupid idea apart from coming from your head.

Yes He was a great leader/imam alhamdulillah and is remembered as such........not the DIVINE one you made up and falsely attribute to Him.😉
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 15, 2019, 03:06:10 PM
Lol 😂😂😂😂😂 iceman Shiites great intellectual logic comes into play.

Allah swt sends divine imamah as a promotion after prophethood and icebox carries on with that idea, when you ask icebox why the same formula isn’t at play with the last prophet saw......he icebox says.......”you need to ask Allah swt that”

This guy believes in a divine Imamate that he doesn’t know why Allah swt didn’t bless the last prophet saw with!

So like I said divine Imamate is a figment of your imagination that’s not been implemented or is true and you can’t for the life of you explain or find such a stupid idea apart from coming from your head.

Yes He was a great leader/imam alhamdulillah and is remembered as such........not the DIVINE one you made up and falsely attribute to Him.😉

"when you ask icebox why the same formula isn’t at play with the last prophet saw......"

The last prophet saw was above Abraham in status. So the Last prophet saw was a Messenger, Prophet and an Imam as well. What I mean is if you ask why this isn't in the Qur'an then you need to ask Allah why he didn't put everything in the Qur'an so we would have had many volumes and then many books of each volume.

"This guy believes in a divine Imamate that he doesn’t know why Allah swt didn’t bless the last prophet saw with!"

I do know. Allah did bless the last Prophet saw with Imamah. The last Prophet saw was blessed in such a manner that he was above all Messengers and Prophets. Simple.

"Yes He was a great leader/imam alhamdulillah and is remembered as such........not the DIVINE one you made up and falsely attribute to Him.😉"

So Abraham was already a Messenger and a Prophet and a leader of the nation so what was the point of making him an Imam of the people? You don't want to answer this.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on January 15, 2019, 03:15:47 PM
Oh I most definitely believe them and in them but not everything that is attributed towards them or linked to them.

How do you know the authenticity of anything attributed to them?  Unless you have your own personal methodology, you have to accept the ruling of your scholars.  And I presented you narrations deemed authentic by your own scholars.

Quote
Qur'an is the scale, the measuring device. You keep yapping on but can't produce anything from the Qur'an concerning what I asked. Keep beating around the bush.

Zakah is in the Qur'an; the prohibition to personally own Fay is in the Qur'an.  The punishment you mocked as "crap" (since the story was in one of our Sahihain) is in the Qur'an.  Can you bring a verse that remotely alludes to your concept of Imamah? 

Time and again, we have met your Qur'an challenge and instead of shutting up, you are still running your mouth, you shameless imbecile.

Quote
Then you finally accepted that and now we have "prove Imamah (in shia sense)" in brackets.

I had to put it in brackets because dimwits like you need specific instructions.  To ask to prove Imamah from the Qur'an is to require proof for the Shi'i belief.

Quote
Imamah has been proven from the Qur'an and you've eventually accepted it. That's a breakthrough. So we can move forward from here.

You can see the parentheses in my latest comment but you failed to see the quotation marks around the word, proves.  For the sake of argument, I accepted your proof and then I systematically showed how your proof actually destroys Imamah, the same belief you were out to substantiate. 

Quote
Zakat is mentioned in the Qur'an and so is Imamah. The rest of the details lie with the Prophet. And the Prophet s.a.w has mentioned about Zakah and Imamah.

Imamah, in the Shi'i sense, is neither in the Qur'an nor in the Sunnah.  Even if another fourteen centuries go by, you cannot prove Imamah from the Qur'an or authentic Sunnah.  Yeah, if you go to the Kufans who championed your beliefs then its a different story.

Quote
Yes I'm familiar with that phrase. That's exactly what you're doing. You demand but unfortunately can't deliver when asked.

Go ahead, refute me, if you dare!  The Qur'an, for example, clearly forbids one individual, or a selected group, to have sole proprietary rights over Fay.  With or without the Prophetic tradition that Prophets (asws) do not leave inheritance, Fadak is an open-and-shut case.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Abu Muhammad on January 15, 2019, 04:20:31 PM
Would you like to be my guest and break down question 7 for me. Before I give another unsatisfactory answer or something along those lines.

Amazing. Again, no surprise at all that a number of brothers just stop talking to you since your poor comprehension hinders you from getting what they intended to convey to you.

Question 7. Does the Progeny include the 12 Imams only? If not, then how do you exclude the others from the Hadith Thaqalayn?

Which part of Question 7 above is so difficult for you to comprehend?
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 15, 2019, 06:13:47 PM

The last prophet saw was above Abraham in status. So the Last prophet saw was a Messenger, Prophet and an Imam as well. What I mean is if you ask why this isn't in the Qur'an then you need to ask Allah why he didn't put everything in the Qur'an so we would have had many volumes and then many books of each volume.



It’s not about anything else it’s about one fundamental pillar of your sect “divine Imamate” a belief so important that you are not a shia without believing it otherwise you would be a Muslim like me and a billion and a half others, stop making excuses up this is where your divine Imamate formula goes to pot, you cannot explain if and when our prophet saw became a divine imam.

You assumptions are nothing but ideas and formulas that don’t even make sense look above you can’t even answer how Imamate is divine apart from using a verse that has no details or insinuations or any hint of a divine status until you start creating one with your shia mindset.


"This guy believes in a divine Imamate that he doesn’t know why Allah swt didn’t bless the last prophet saw with!"

I do know. Allah did bless the last Prophet saw with Imamah. The last Prophet saw was blessed in such a manner that he was above all Messengers and Prophets. Simple.

Hold on according to your formula a prophet has to go through tests and trials to get promotions to attain divine Imamate, so when was that then? When did our prophet saw finish prophethood and attain divine Imamate? Please do fill in the details.

So Allah swt blessed our prophet saw to be above all prophets that His divine imam status came automatically without declaration or hint from our prophet saw Himself?
Just as divine Imamate is automatically attached to the imams because they are also higher than all prophets apart from the last one.

Please do provide us some evidence of prophet saw proclaiming such an important status than prophethood, if you can.


So Abraham was already a Messenger and a Prophet and a leader of the nation so what was the point of making him an Imam of the people? You don't want to answer this.

I already answered plenty of times He Ibrahim as was a prophet spreading la ilaha illallah He stood up to a king/leader a kaafir as A prophet of Allah swt and not as a leader.

Your belief in Imamate being divine doesn’t make sense your explanations are Shiite inspired or lean on Shiite understanding without you having an open mind for example the word divine itself, there is NOTHING of it in the Quran but you adding it with your explanations and formulas leaning towards Shiite thought.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 15, 2019, 10:53:29 PM
It’s not about anything else it’s about one fundamental pillar of your sect “divine Imamate” a belief so important that you are not a shia without believing it otherwise you would be a Muslim like me and a billion and a half others, stop making excuses up this is where your divine Imamate formula goes to pot, you cannot explain if and when our prophet saw became a divine imam.

You assumptions are nothing but ideas and formulas that don’t even make sense look above you can’t even answer how Imamate is divine apart from using a verse that has no details or insinuations or any hint of a divine status until you start creating one with your shia mindset.

Hold on according to your formula a prophet has to go through tests and trials to get promotions to attain divine Imamate, so when was that then? When did our prophet saw finish prophethood and attain divine Imamate? Please do fill in the details.

So Allah swt blessed our prophet saw to be above all prophets that His divine imam status came automatically without declaration or hint from our prophet saw Himself?
Just as divine Imamate is automatically attached to the imams because they are also higher than all prophets apart from the last one.

Please do provide us some evidence of prophet saw proclaiming such an important status than prophethood, if you can.

I already answered plenty of times He Ibrahim as was a prophet spreading la ilaha illallah He stood up to a king/leader a kaafir as A prophet of Allah swt and not as a leader.

Your belief in Imamate being divine doesn’t make sense your explanations are Shiite inspired or lean on Shiite understanding without you having an open mind for example the word divine itself, there is NOTHING of it in the Quran but you adding it with your explanations and formulas leaning towards Shiite thought.

"you cannot explain if and when our prophet saw became a divine imam"

Only Allah explains and gives explanations. You running onto Prophet Muhammad, first agree about Abraham which you're having problems with. Then talk about Muhammad s.a.w.

"Hold on according to your formula a prophet has to go through tests and trials to get promotions to attain divine Imamate"

Did I say that? I don't think I said that. Who said that every Prophet had to go through a trial before being made an Imam? Allah knows best. He had raised and honoured some above others. My dear, you're missing the point. It's down to Allah's discretion.

Imamah is divine just as Messenger hood and Prophecy. You can't run from this. How long are you going to remain ignorant.

"I already answered plenty of times He Ibrahim as was a prophet spreading la ilaha illallah He stood up to a king/leader a kaafir as A prophet of Allah swt and not as a leader"

So you're saying that when Abraham was a prophet he wasn't a leader? Adam was a Messenger but Allah introduced him as a Caliph. Why?

When Allah said to the angels, “I want to make a caliph on earth,” the angels said, “Why? If you bring Your light down into the density of the earth, they will kill each other and abandon your holy way.” Allah said, “I am the Knowing and the Wise.” And He created Adam, the first caliph, the first vice-regent.

Why did Allah introduce Adam as a Caliph when he was a Messenger? Abraham and Adam are two unique examples, one of Imamah and the other of Caliphate. I ask you to study. Go do some homework first.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 15, 2019, 11:06:32 PM
Amazing. Again, no surprise at all that a number of brothers just stop talking to you since your poor comprehension hinders you from getting what they intended to convey to you.

Which part of Question 7 above is so difficult for you to comprehend?

"number of brothers just stop talking to you"

When you become answer less, cornered, face defeat then you stop talking. That's exactly what you do.

"Which part of Question 7 above is so difficult for you to comprehend?"

Rather than toying, taking the mick why don't you just get on with it. Which part do you think I didn't comprehend. Just come out with it man.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 16, 2019, 12:23:29 AM
"you cannot explain if and when our prophet saw became a divine imam"

Only Allah explains and gives explanations. You running onto Prophet Muhammad, first agree about Abraham which you're having problems with. Then talk about Muhammad s.a.w.

You have NOTHING you can’t even answer a simple question instead refer it to Allah swt that’s your best answer which means you haven’t a clue of the last prophet saw being a divine imam.

I told you the imam in that verse isn’t divine Imamate and you cannot as can be seen in many posts and threads by your many false methadolgies and formulas prove otherwise.

Did I say that? I don't think I said that. Who said that every Prophet had to go through a trial before being made an Imam? Allah knows best. He had raised and honoured some above others. My dear, you're missing the point. It's down to Allah's discretion.

Lol you made the statement divine Imamate is in the Quran you produced a verse you deem refers to divine Imamate that status which is higher than prophethood through a PROMOTION!! (Your words!!) now you say no promotion needed???

OMG I will post the great words of wisdom from our 4th rightly guided khalif Imam Ali ra
““A wise man first thinks and then speaks but a fool speaks first and then thinks.” – Ali ibn Abi Talib (RA)”

Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Abu Muhammad on January 16, 2019, 01:24:28 AM
"number of brothers just stop talking to you"

When you become answer less, cornered, face defeat then you stop talking. That's exactly what you do.

What "answer less, cornered, face defeat" when almost every response posed by those brothers answered by you with "questions" or "thoughtless copy & paste". Do you want me to show you examples? Easy.

"Which part of Question 7 above is so difficult for you to comprehend?"

Rather than toying, taking the mick why don't you just get on with it. Which part do you think I didn't comprehend. Just come out with it man.

Amazing. And I wonder how you comprehend any other questions and answered them spot on.

Read Question 7 below again:

Quote
Question 7. Does the Progeny include the 12 Imams only? If not, then how do you exclude the others from the Hadith Thaqalayn?

It basically asked you this:
There were hundreds if not thousands of progeny or descendents of Prophets (saw) through Al-Hasan and Al-Hussain. Why do Twelvers only limit them to 12 of those progeny and exclude the others from hadith Thaqalayn.

And read again how you answered it:


Answer 7. Yes we do believe that the 12 Imams are from the progeny of the Prophet s.a.w.

1. `Ali Ibn Abi Talib quoted the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) as saying: “Al-Mahdi is one of us, the clan of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). Allah will reform him in one night.”
(Reported by Imam Ahmad and Ibn Maqah).

The world will not come to pass until a man from among my family, whose name will be my name, rules over the Arabs.
(Tirmidhi Sahih, Vol. 9, P. 74; Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 5, P. 207;
also narrated by Ali b. Abi Talib, Abu Sa'id, Umm Salma, Abu Hurayra)

The Prophet(SAW) said:

Allah will bring out from concealment al-Mahdi from my family and just before the day of Judgment; even if only one day were to remain in the life of the world, and he will spread on this earth justice and equity and will eradicate tyranny and oppression.
(Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Vol. 1, P. 99)

Hadhrat Ali(RA) narrates that Rasulullah(SAW) said:

Even if only a day remains for Qiyamah to come, yet Allah will surely send a man from my family who will fill this world with such justice and fairness, just as it initially was filled with oppression.
(Abu Dawood)

Ali b. Abi Talib(RA) has related a tradition from the Prophet(SAW) who informed him:

The promised Mahdi will be among my family. God will make the provisions for his emergence within a single night.
(Ibn Majah, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 519)

Hazrat Umme Salmah(RA), Prophet's wife, narrates that she heard the Prophet(SAW) say:

The promised Mahdi will be among my progeny, among the descendants of Fatima.
(Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 207; Ibn Majah, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 519)

Rasulullah(SAW) announced:

The Mahdi will be of my family, of the descendants of Fatima (the Prophet's daughter). (Sunan Ibn Majah, Vol. 2, Tradition No. 4086)

The Prophet(SAW) taught:

Al-Mahdi is one of us, the members of the household (Ahlul-Bayt).
(Sunan Ibn Majah, Vol. 2, Tradition No. 4085)

Abu Sa'id al-Khudari(RA) narrated that the Prophet(SAW) said:

Our Mahdi will have a broad forehead and a pointed (prominent) nose. He will fill the earth with justice as it is filled with injustice and tyranny. He will rule for seven years.
(Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 2, p. 208; Fusul al-muhimma, p. 275)

Hadhrat Abu Saeed Khudri(RA) relates that Rasulullah(SAW) said:

Al Mahdi will be from my progeny. His forehead will be broad and his nose will be high. He will fill the world with justice and fairness at a time when the world will be filled with oppression. He will rule for seven years.

Laughable right? As I said before, you just made Twelvers look like fools with that kind of answer.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 16, 2019, 08:45:42 AM
What "answer less, cornered, face defeat" when almost every response posed by those brothers answered by you with "questions" or "thoughtless copy & paste". Do you want me to show you examples? Easy.

Amazing. And I wonder how you comprehend any other questions and answered them spot on.

Read Question 7 below again:

It basically asked you this:
There were hundreds if not thousands of progeny or descendents of Prophets (saw) through Al-Hasan and Al-Hussain. Why do Twelvers only limit them to 12 of those progeny and exclude the others from hadith Thaqalayn.

And read again how you answered it:

Laughable right? As I said before, you just made Twelvers look like fools with that kind of answer.

"What "answer less, cornered, face defeat" when almost every response posed by those brothers answered by you with "questions" or "thoughtless copy & paste". Do you want me to show you examples? Easy"

Yes please, but on what basis. One example out of 20? And what about the others. Will you give the same examples for them. Of course not. They're your brothers. But still, go ahead. Please proceed. And I assure you I will correct you and silence you.

"Amazing. And I wonder how you comprehend any other questions and answered them spot on"

Like I said, if you want to mention something or point something out then go ahead. Don't toy with it. Don't play about with it.

"It basically asked you this:
There were hundreds if not thousands of progeny or descendents of Prophets (saw) through Al-Hasan and Al-Hussain. Why do Twelvers only limit them to 12 of those progeny and exclude the others from hadith Thaqalayn"

Thank you very much. Now that wasn't difficult, was it. You could have come out with this in the first place.

Are others excluded from Hadith e Thaqalayn? How are they excluded or how do we exclude them? Could you give me an example.

"Laughable right? As I said before, you just made Twelvers look like fools with that kind of answer"

I deal with such crappy comments all the time. Just get on with it. 😊
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 16, 2019, 01:26:57 PM
How do you know the authenticity of anything attributed to them?  Unless you have your own personal methodology, you have to accept the ruling of your scholars.  And I presented you narrations deemed authentic by your own scholars.

Zakah is in the Qur'an; the prohibition to personally own Fay is in the Qur'an.  The punishment you mocked as "crap" (since the story was in one of our Sahihain) is in the Qur'an.  Can you bring a verse that remotely alludes to your concept of Imamah? 

Time and again, we have met your Qur'an challenge and instead of shutting up, you are still running your mouth, you shameless imbecile.

I had to put it in brackets because dimwits like you need specific instructions.  To ask to prove Imamah from the Qur'an is to require proof for the Shi'i belief.

You can see the parentheses in my latest comment but you failed to see the quotation marks around the word, proves.  For the sake of argument, I accepted your proof and then I systematically showed how your proof actually destroys Imamah, the same belief you were out to substantiate. 

Imamah, in the Shi'i sense, is neither in the Qur'an nor in the Sunnah.  Even if another fourteen centuries go by, you cannot prove Imamah from the Qur'an or authentic Sunnah.  Yeah, if you go to the Kufans who championed your beliefs then its a different story.

Go ahead, refute me, if you dare!  The Qur'an, for example, clearly forbids one individual, or a selected group, to have sole proprietary rights over Fay.  With or without the Prophetic tradition that Prophets (asws) do not leave inheritance, Fadak is an open-and-shut case.

"How do you know the authenticity of anything attributed to them?  Unless you have your own personal methodology, you have to accept the ruling of your scholars.  And I presented you narrations deemed authentic by your own scholars"

The Qur'an is above all. It is the scale, the measuring device. Are you saying it is absolutely necessary for me to accept anything and everything that my scholars say, or whatever is in the four books?

"Zakah is in the Qur'an; the prohibition to personally own Fay is in the Qur'an.  The punishment you mocked as "crap" (since the story was in one of our Sahihain) is in the Qur'an.  Can you bring a verse that remotely alludes to your concept of Imamah?"

Yes Zakah is in the Qur'an but not the punishment you mentioned concerning Zakah. Also it doesn't say in the Qur'an that Fatima's right to inheritance was forfitted or ceased.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 16, 2019, 02:13:41 PM
"Time and again, we have met your Qur'an challenge and instead of shutting up, you are still running your mouth, you shameless imbecile"

You haven't met it at all. You're not where near it. You keep beating around the bush over it. Prove to me from the Qur'an the punishment of not paying Zakah, the government having the right to take Zakah off people and the families and relations of Messengers and Prophets have no right to inheritance what so ever.

"I had to put it in brackets because dimwits like you need specific instructions"

No, your exact words were "prove Imamah from the Qur'an' those were your exact words. The bracket statement came in later. I've already proven this. Will forward the evidence again.

"To ask to prove Imamah from the Qur'an is to require proof for the Shi'i belief"

Do you believe everything important and necessary has to be in the Qur'an or the Holy scriptures? Can you prove from the Bible that Jesus wasn't killed and neither was he crucified? The Bible is book of Allah, did Allah mention in the Bible that Jesus won't be killed or crucified. What you'll witness is just a drama, a fiction. It won't be reality. Can you prove this from the Bible.

"You can see the parentheses in my latest comment but you failed to see the quotation marks around the word, proves.  For the sake of argument, I accepted your proof and then I systematically showed how your proof actually destroys Imamah, the same belief you were out to substantiate"

You wanted proof of Imamah from the Qur'an and I gave it to you and you accepted it because there was no denying it. As far as Shia Imamah is concerned (the twelvers) that is proved through Muhammad s.a.w. but those who got into authority made ammendments suiting their desire and needs. That's how history has turned out.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 16, 2019, 02:27:34 PM

You wanted proof of Imamah from the Qur'an and I gave it to you and you accepted it because there was no denying it. As far as Shia Imamah is concerned (the twelvers) that is proved through Muhammad s.a.w. but those who got into authority made ammendments suiting their desire and needs. That's how history has turned out.

Lol adding divine to words of imams in Quran is your BEST proof.😂😂😂😂😊

I’ve many posts where you ADD divine Imamate to verse of Ibrahim as according to you which was a promotion to a higher status.......YOUR ADDITION!

You haven’t gave us nothing but your own interpretations and also lying as if we accepted that crap divine Imamate.
The lying part was expected from a Shiite nothing new here.😉

In other words saqifa was real and no divine Imamate was implemented in this world ever, your dreams of divine supermen was destroyed by the 4th khaliph who ruled as like the 3 others before him, without any divine powers.👍
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Abu Muhammad on January 16, 2019, 03:24:15 PM
Thank you very much. Now that wasn't difficult, was it. You could have come out with this in the first place.

Like I said, if you want to mention something or point something out then go ahead. Don't toy with it. Don't play about with it.

My goodness. Your POOR COMPREHENSION is the source of all this. Why should you blame me of "playing" or "toying". It is not my job to explain to you what the question means just because of your terrible comprehension of a straight forward question.

Sheeshh...
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Abu Muhammad on January 16, 2019, 03:39:21 PM
Coming back to Question no. 7:

"It basically asked you this:
There were hundreds if not thousands of progeny or descendents of Prophets (saw) through Al-Hasan and Al-Hussain. Why do Twelvers only limit them to 12 of those progeny and exclude the others from hadith Thaqalayn"

Thank you very much. Now that wasn't difficult, was it. You could have come out with this in the first place.
That wasn't difficult? Let's see your answer:
Are others excluded from Hadith e Thaqalayn? How are they excluded or how do we exclude them? Could you give me an example.
And that's is how you made the brothers "answerless, cornered and face defeat". LOL...

And as I said earlier as below, there you go the example. No need for me to go and find in other posts of yours.
What "answer less, cornered, face defeat" when almost every response posed by those brothers answered by you with "questions" or "thoughtless copy & paste". Do you want me to show you examples? Easy.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on January 17, 2019, 03:20:37 PM
The Qur'an is above all. It is the scale, the measuring device. Are you saying it is absolutely necessary for me to accept anything and everything that my scholars say, or whatever is in the four books?

No but it is absolutely incumbent upon you to accept what is "authentically" narrated from your "infallible" Imams (ra).  Otherwise, you are an apostate. 

By the way, it sounds very sweet to say that Qur'an is the scale and the measuring device.  It is sad, however, to then not be able to substantiate your usool-e-deen (Imamah) from the Qur'an.

Quote
Yes Zakah is in the Qur'an but not the punishment you mentioned concerning Zakah.

Can we agree, as per Surah Al-Baqarah, disbelief in a portion of the book is to actually disbelieve?

Quote
Also it doesn't say in the Qur'an that Fatima's right to inheritance was forfitted or ceased.

There was no inheritance, hence, the Qur'an does not have to spell it.  The Qur'an explicitly states that Fay cannot owned by an individual or a group of individuals, therefore, there is no room to discuss inheritance unless you suffer from some mental disease or were raised upon blind hatred.

Quote
Prove to me from the Qur'an the punishment of not paying Zakah, the government having the right to take Zakah off people and the families and relations of Messengers and Prophets have no right to inheritance what so ever.

I have done better and you know it!  From the "infallible" Imams (ra) who are hujjah upon you, I proved that the punishment meted out in the case of Malik was justified and with one verse of the Qur'an, I completely shut down the entire discussion on Fadak, whether you see it as Fatima's (ra) inheritance or a gift given to her.  Your offspring cannot inherit what you do not own; similarly, you cannot gift someone something you do not own.

I have no problem with you denying the Qur'an and your own "infallible" Imams (ra); in fact, I expected nothing better.  However, do not insult our intelligence by claiming that you follow the two.

Quote
No, your exact words were "prove Imamah from the Qur'an' those were your exact words. The bracket statement came in later. I've already proven this. Will forward the evidence again.

You are a liar!  I have always accepted your "proofs" for the sake of argument only to refute you using your own "proof".  That pattern is consistent from my side.

Quote
Can you prove from the Bible that Jesus wasn't killed and neither was he crucified? The Bible is book of Allah, did Allah mention in the Bible that Jesus won't be killed or crucified. What you'll witness is just a drama, a fiction. It won't be reality. Can you prove this from the Bible.

For the highlighted part, I must say that calling you a dimwit is an insult to dimwits.  You never cease to amaze me.  I mean, how low can you go?

Quote
You wanted proof of Imamah from the Qur'an and I gave it to you and you accepted it because there was no denying it

That "Imamah" actually poses more problem for the Imamah you claim to follow.  I have given you the reasons.  Go read them again and try to refute those points.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 19, 2019, 11:00:04 PM
No but it is absolutely incumbent upon you to accept what is "authentically" narrated from your "infallible" Imams (ra).  Otherwise, you are an apostate. 

By the way, it sounds very sweet to say that Qur'an is the scale and the measuring device.  It is sad, however, to then not be able to substantiate your usool-e-deen (Imamah) from the Qur'an.

Can we agree, as per Surah Al-Baqarah, disbelief in a portion of the book is to actually disbelieve?

There was no inheritance, hence, the Qur'an does not have to spell it.  The Qur'an explicitly states that Fay cannot owned by an individual or a group of individuals, therefore, there is no room to discuss inheritance unless you suffer from some mental disease or were raised upon blind hatred.

I have done better and you know it!  From the "infallible" Imams (ra) who are hujjah upon you, I proved that the punishment meted out in the case of Malik was justified and with one verse of the Qur'an, I completely shut down the entire discussion on Fadak, whether you see it as Fatima's (ra) inheritance or a gift given to her.  Your offspring cannot inherit what you do not own; similarly, you cannot gift someone something you do not own.

I have no problem with you denying the Qur'an and your own "infallible" Imams (ra); in fact, I expected nothing better.  However, do not insult our intelligence by claiming that you follow the two.

You are a liar!  I have always accepted your "proofs" for the sake of argument only to refute you using your own "proof".  That pattern is consistent from my side.

For the highlighted part, I must say that calling you a dimwit is an insult to dimwits.  You never cease to amaze me.  I mean, how low can you go?

That "Imamah" actually poses more problem for the Imamah you claim to follow.  I have given you the reasons.  Go read them again and try to refute those points.

"For the highlighted part, I must say that calling you a dimwit is an insult to dimwits"

Then don't call me a dimwit if you think that's an insult to you lot.

"You never cease to amaze me"

Of course I never amaze you because I'm always ready and prepared for you.

" mean, how low can you go?"

As long as honesty and truth can survive. That's how long.

"No but it is absolutely incumbent upon you to accept what is "authentically" narrated from your "infallible" Imams (ra).  Otherwise, you are an apostate"

Prove the punishment from the Qur'an just as you were quick and swift to prove the other punishment.

"It is sad, however, to then not be able to substantiate your usool-e-deen (Imamah) from the Qur'an:

Is it necessary that everything serious and important has to be from the Qur'an? If yes then prove from the Qur'an that Messengers and Prophets don't leave anything behind for inheritance or to be inherited. Prove and back this hadith from the Qur'an.

"Can we agree, as per Surah Al-Baqarah, disbelief in a portion of the book is to actually disbelieve?"

You accuse a companion of the Prophet s.a.w  (Malik bin Nuwayrah) and other companions alongside him of such a hideous crime? Because if you don't then Abu Bakr and Khalid go down really badly. So companions can lose their companionship? But according to you only despite not having clear reports. Not according to anybody else even with a genuine and clear reason? Pull the other one.

"There was no inheritance, hence, the Qur'an does not have to spell it"

Fatima along with the Prophet's s.a.w other relations had a right to inheritance just like anyone else. The Qur'an says so. You think they don't because Abu Bakr said so. Just as simple as that.

"The Qur'an explicitly states that Fay cannot owned by an individual or a group of individuals, therefore"

We're not talking about being owned. We are talking about inheritance. The Prophet s.a.w was obstructed from writing a will and then his relations were deprived from inheritance. Good show. Brilliant. Bravo. Well done.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Hani on January 20, 2019, 03:16:20 AM
`Ali confirmed what Abu Bakr said regarding the Prophet (saw) not leaving behind inheritance. End of story.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 20, 2019, 06:14:11 PM
`Ali confirmed what Abu Bakr said regarding the Prophet (saw) not leaving behind inheritance. End of story.

And we believe, just exactly as you do, that certain things within history are fabricated or exaggerated etc. So please come back with something solid and worth while to defend your side of the argument. Not bits and pieces that suit your side of the argument.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 20, 2019, 06:17:07 PM
Inheritance is considered as an integral part of Shariah Law. Muslims inherit from one another as stated in the Qur'an. Hence, there is a legal share for relatives of the decedent in his estate and property. The major rules of inheritance are detailed in Qur'an, Hadith and Fiqh.

The scope of this article is confined to traditional Sunni Islamic law..When a Muslim dies there are four duties which need to be performed. These are:

payment of funeral expenses;
payment of his/her debts;
execution his/her will; and
distribution of remaining estate amongst the heirs according to Shari'ah.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 20, 2019, 06:49:51 PM
Inheritance is considered as an integral part of Shariah Law. Muslims inherit from one another as stated in the Qur'an. Hence, there is a legal share for relatives of the decedent in his estate and property. The major rules of inheritance are detailed in Qur'an, Hadith and Fiqh.

The scope of this article is confined to traditional Sunni Islamic law..When a Muslim dies there are four duties which need to be performed. These are:

payment of funeral expenses;
payment of his/her debts;
execution his/her will; and
distribution of remaining estate amongst the heirs according to Shari'ah.

Needless to say Muslims must follow all the commandments of Allah as Allah, the Almighty, says:

"It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any opinion in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, has indeed strayed into a plain error."
Al-Qur'an 33:36.

The particular importance of the Islamic laws of inheritance is obvious from the verses immediately following those verses giving specific details on inheritance shares:

"These are limits (set by) Allah (or ordainments as regards laws of inheritance), and whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger will be admitted to Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise), to abide therein, and that will be the great success. And whosoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, and transgresses His limits, He will cast him into the Fire, to abide therein; and he shall have a disgraceful torment."
Al-Quran 4:13-14
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Abu Muhammad on January 20, 2019, 07:13:20 PM
Inheritance is considered as an integral part of Shariah Law. Muslims inherit from one another as stated in the Qur'an. Hence, there is a legal share for relatives of the decedent in his estate and property. The major rules of inheritance are detailed in Qur'an, Hadith and Fiqh.

The scope of this article is confined to traditional Sunni Islamic law..When a Muslim dies there are four duties which need to be performed. These are:

payment of funeral expenses;
payment of his/her debts;
execution his/her will; and
distribution of remaining estate amongst the heirs according to Shari'ah.

Are you writing an article?
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 20, 2019, 08:02:04 PM
Are you writing an article?

Are you willing to respond to the matter with honesty and being truthful to yourself? That's what you suppose to be looking at rather than searching for bits and pieces with a magnifying glass just to refute me based on a confrontational stance. 😊
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 20, 2019, 08:11:57 PM
Needless to say Muslims must follow all the commandments of Allah as Allah, the Almighty, says:

"It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any opinion in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, has indeed strayed into a plain error."
Al-Qur'an 33:36.

The particular importance of the Islamic laws of inheritance is obvious from the verses immediately following those verses giving specific details on inheritance shares:

"These are limits (set by) Allah (or ordainments as regards laws of inheritance), and whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger will be admitted to Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise), to abide therein, and that will be the great success. And whosoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, and transgresses His limits, He will cast him into the Fire, to abide therein; and he shall have a disgraceful torment."
Al-Quran 4:13-14

"Allah commands you regarding your children. For the male a share equivalent to that of two females ..."
Al-Qur'an 4:11

How exactly did the Prophet s.a.w full fill this command?

Not Fatima alone put the Prophet's s.a.w relations along with all of his wives excluding Aisha claimed for inheritance according to Sharia law based on and backed by Qur'anic verses of inheritance. How were they dealt with. We believe Abu Bakr "indeed strayed into a plain error."
Al-Qur'an 33:36.

Unless someone can back the Hadith he provided as evidence from the Qur'an to prevent the relations of the Prophet s.a.w from claiming their share of inheritance.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 20, 2019, 10:38:02 PM
وَلَقَدْ أَخَذَ اللَّهُ مِيثَاقَ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ وَبَعَثْنَا مِنْهُمُ اثْنَيْ عَشَرَ نَقِيبًا ۖ وَقَالَ اللَّهُ إِنِّي مَعَكُمْ ۖ لَئِنْ أَقَمْتُمُ الصَّلَاةَ وَآتَيْتُمُ الزَّكَاةَ وَآمَنتُم بِرُسُلِي وَعَزَّرْتُمُوهُمْ وَأَقْرَضْتُمُ اللَّهَ قَرْضًا حَسَنًا لَّأُكَفِّرَنَّ عَنكُمْ سَيِّئَاتِكُمْ وَلَأُدْخِلَنَّكُمْ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي مِن تَحْتِهَا الْأَنْهَارُ ۚ فَمَن كَفَرَ بَعْدَ ذَٰلِكَ مِنكُمْ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ سَوَاءَ السَّبِيلِ

And Allah had already taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and We delegated from among them twelve leaders. And Allah said, "I am with you. If you establish prayer and give zakah and believe in My messengers and support them and loan Allah a goodly loan, I will surely remove from you your misdeeds and admit you to gardens beneath which rivers flow. But whoever of you disbelieves after that has certainly strayed from the soundness of the way."

Why did Allah mention about the past here? What was he referring to and why?

"We delegated from among them twelve leaders"

Twelve Leaders? Surely the number 12 is a very significant number.

"And Allah had already taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and We delegated from among them twelve leaders"

Can this be proven from the Torah? The Torah is the book of Allah revealed upon Moses, so can we prove this from the Torah just as we expect the the 12 Imams to be proven from the Qur'an?
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Abu Muhammad on January 21, 2019, 01:45:40 AM
And we believe, just exactly as you do, that certain things within history are fabricated or exaggerated etc. So please come back with something solid and worth while to defend your side of the argument. Not bits and pieces that suit your side of the argument.

Are you willing to respond to the matter with honesty and being truthful to yourself? That's what you suppose to be looking at rather than searching for bits and pieces with a magnifying glass just to refute me based on a confrontational stance. 😊

LOL... "bits and pieces". Let us see.

Inheritance is considered as an integral part of Shariah Law. Muslims inherit from one another as stated in the Qur'an. Hence, there is a legal share for relatives of the decedent in his estate and property. The major rules of inheritance are detailed in Qur'an, Hadith and Fiqh.

The scope of this article is confined to traditional Sunni Islamic law..When a Muslim dies there are four duties which need to be performed. These are:

payment of funeral expenses;
payment of his/her debts;
execution his/her will; and
distribution of remaining estate amongst the heirs according to Shari'ah.



Needless to say Muslims must follow all the commandments of Allah as Allah, the Almighty, says:

"It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any opinion in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, has indeed strayed into a plain error."
Al-Qur'an 33:36.

The particular importance of the Islamic laws of inheritance is obvious from the verses immediately following those verses giving specific details on inheritance shares:

"These are limits (set by) Allah (or ordainments as regards laws of inheritance), and whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger will be admitted to Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise), to abide therein, and that will be the great success. And whosoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, and transgresses His limits, He will cast him into the Fire, to abide therein; and he shall have a disgraceful torment."
Al-Quran 4:13-14


1) The one highlighted in green was a "bits and pieces" from
Quote
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_inheritance_jurisprudence

2) The one highlighted in blue was a "bits and pieces" from:
Quote
https://www.islam101.com/sociology/inheritance.htm

3) The one highlighted in purple was also a "bits and pieces" from:
Quote
https://www.islam101.com/sociology/inheritance.htm

Who is doing "bits and pieces" business here?

And it also reminds me of what I've posted previously; "thoughtless copy and paste".
That's why even the phrase "The scope of this article" appeared in your post. How "thoughtless" it was. And by that "thoughtless copy and paste", you have made us "answer less, cornered and face defeat". LOL...

Another example... easy. ☺

What "answer less, cornered, face defeat" when almost every response posed by those brothers answered by you with "questions" or "thoughtless copy & paste". Do you want me to show you examples? Easy.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 21, 2019, 03:30:21 AM
LOL... "bits and pieces". Let us see.

1) The one highlighted in green was a "bits and pieces" from
2) The one highlighted in blue was a "bits and pieces" from:
3) The one highlighted in purple was also a "bits and pieces" from:
Who is doing "bits and pieces" business here?

And it also reminds me of what I've posted previously; "thoughtless copy and paste".
That's why even the phrase "The scope of this article" appeared in your post. How "thoughtless" it was. And by that "thoughtless copy and paste", you have made us "answer less, cornered and face defeat". LOL...

Another example... easy. ☺

What can I say about you and your crappy response. You've got anything from the Qur'an to back your claim. That's what it all boils down to. Anything at all.

"We do not leave anything behind for inheritance or to be inherited but what we do leave behind is for charity and for charitable purpose only"

Yeh. Now back it from the Qur'an. Lets put up or shut up. Lets end it here. No more counter arguments or ridiculous excuses.

If you could have backed it from the Qur'an we wouldn’t have an argument to begin with. You carry on protecting certain individuals and defending their grave mistakes. Good luck to yeah.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: Abu Muhammad on January 21, 2019, 05:15:50 AM
What can I say about you and your crappy response. You've got anything from the Qur'an to back your claim. That's what it all boils down to. Anything at all.

"We do not leave anything behind for inheritance or to be inherited but what we do leave behind is for charity and for charitable purpose only"

Yeh. Now back it from the Qur'an. Lets put up or shut up. Lets end it here. No more counter arguments or ridiculous excuses.

If you could have backed it from the Qur'an we wouldn’t have an argument to begin with. You carry on protecting certain individuals and defending their grave mistakes. Good luck to yeah.

You've got anything to back up from the Quran why Prophet (saw) had nine wives at one time when Allah clearly says the following:

وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلَّا تُقْسِطُوا فِي الْيَتَامَىٰ فَانْكِحُوا مَا طَابَ لَكُمْ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ مَثْنَىٰ وَثُلَاثَ وَرُبَاعَ ۖ فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلَّا تَعْدِلُوا فَوَاحِدَةً أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ أَدْنَىٰ أَلَّا تَعُولُوا

(Abdul Haleem)
If you fear that you will not deal fairly with orphan girls, you may marry whichever [other] women seem good to you, two, three, or four. If you fear that you cannot be equitable [to them], then marry only one, or your slave(s): that is more likely to make you avoid bias.

-Sura An-Nisa', Ayah 3


Please provide just an ayah from the Quran that the Prophet (saw) was allowed to marry more than four at one time.

You will only understand your "quranic claim" of inheritance of the Prophet (saw) after answering me the above.

You know what, it boils down to your pathethic understanding of the methodology of Ahlus Sunnah. Know the methodology of whom you want to argue with first or else, it makes you look dumb and stupid.

It was said that Imam Syafie once said,
"I can win arguments with 10 knowlegable people but I will lose arguments with a fool since a fool doesn't understand the principle and methodology of a knowledge."

Enough said.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: muslim720 on January 21, 2019, 03:43:55 PM
Then don't call me a dimwit if you think that's an insult to you lot.

I was actually referring to the rest of you all.

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Of course I never amaze you because I'm always ready and prepared for you.

Undoubtedly, you are always ready and prepared for me to make a mockery out of you.

Quote
Prove the punishment from the Qur'an just as you were quick and swift to prove the other punishment.

Alhamdulilah, at least you admitted that your other point has been utterly refuted.  Now, instead of posing more challenges, have some shame and issue an apology.  If not, at least ponder over the following Shi'i belief.

"Kulaini has, according to reliable chains of narrators, narrated from Abi Salmah that he said: I have heard Imam Sadiq (a.s.) saying: We are the group whose obedience has been made a must for the creation by the Lord Almighty and people must recognize us (they cannot do without our recognition) and people are not helpless in knowing us and the one who knows us with our Imamate is a believer and the one who denies is a disbeliever and the one who neither knows us nor denies us is like a man of weak belief and misguided until he returns to our compulsory obedience, the obedience which has been made obligatory by Allah. If such a fellow dies in a condition of this misguidance, it is for the Almighty Allah either to punish him or to forgive him."

Taken from: https://www.al-islam.org/hayat-al-qulub-vol3-allamah-muhammad-baqir-al-majlisi/part-6-it-obligatory-obey-true-imams

Without complete obedience, you are a disbeliever, according to your own theology.  So why do you disregard your "infallible" Imams (ra) when it is authentically narrated from them that refusal to pay or give Zakah makes one an apostate who can then be subjected to capital punishment?

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Is it necessary that everything serious and important has to be from the Qur'an? If yes then prove from the Qur'an that Messengers and Prophets don't leave anything behind for inheritance or to be inherited.

I am convinced that Prophets (asws) do not leave inheritance, a fact attested to by Shi'i and Sunni authentic narrations.  This point, however, takes center stage when discussing Fadak so instead of getting into discussions regarding this narration, I nip the whole argument in the bud. 

The Qur'an clearly forbids Fay from having an individual owner, or a group of owners, having exclusive rights to it.  Therefore, it can neither be gifted nor inherited.  Open-and-shut case.

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Prove and back this hadith from the Qur'an.

I do not have to prove anything anymore; I have killed two birds with one stone.  Setting aside your flip-flopping belief that Fadak was inheritance but it was also a gift, Surah Hashr clearly forbids Fadak from being gifted or inherited.

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You accuse a companion of the Prophet s.a.w  (Malik bin Nuwayrah) and other companions alongside him of such a hideous crime?

A Shi'i being upset that a "companion" of the Prophet (saw) is "accused" of a "hideous crime"?  The world must be coming to an end.  However, notice your next sentence: "Because if you don't then Abu Bakr and Khalid go down really badly."

That is your level of hypocrisy.  Two consecutive sentences and you commit the same mistake you wrongly accuse us of.

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So companions can lose their companionship? But according to you only despite not having clear reports. Not according to anybody else even with a genuine and clear reason? Pull the other one.

Basic definition of being a Companion: accepting Islam, having met the Prophet (saw) and having died with eemaan (or as Muslim).

Are you denying that Muslims, in the past and today, have rejected Islam?

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Fatima along with the Prophet's s.a.w other relations had a right to inheritance just like anyone else. The Qur'an says so. You think they don't because Abu Bakr said so. Just as simple as that.

No problem!  You will have to go back in time, find the possessions of the Prophet (saw) and give them to Fatima (ra).  So long as you understand that Surah Hashr forbids Fadak from being inherited by Fatima (ra) or gifted to her. 

Oh by the way, while you are in the past, also ask your first and second "infallible" Imams (ra) as to why they did not reclaim Fadak despite being the Caliphs and therefore, in charge of all the affairs of the Ummah.

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We're not talking about being owned. We are talking about inheritance.

Are you being extra stupid this morning?  Can you inherit the Buckingham Palace?  Why not?  Because your father does not own it.  Owning a property is a necessary condition for your offspring to inherit it.

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The Prophet s.a.w was obstructed from writing a will and then his relations were deprived from inheritance. Good show. Brilliant. Bravo. Well done.

A group of fallible individuals were able to do all this and four "infallible, Divinely Ordained and Aided" individuals (actually 5, if you include the Prophet s.a.w.) could not prevent or reverse these injustices?  Brilliant.  Bravo.  Well done.
Title: Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
Post by: iceman on January 21, 2019, 11:38:42 PM
You've got anything to back up from the Quran why Prophet (saw) had nine wives at one time when Allah clearly says the following:

وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلَّا تُقْسِطُوا فِي الْيَتَامَىٰ فَانْكِحُوا مَا طَابَ لَكُمْ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ مَثْنَىٰ وَثُلَاثَ وَرُبَاعَ ۖ فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلَّا تَعْدِلُوا فَوَاحِدَةً أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ أَدْنَىٰ أَلَّا تَعُولُوا

(Abdul Haleem)
If you fear that you will not deal fairly with orphan girls, you may marry whichever [other] women seem good to you, two, three, or four. If you fear that you cannot be equitable [to them], then marry only one, or your slave(s): that is more likely to make you avoid bias.

-Sura An-Nisa', Ayah 3


Please provide just an ayah from the Quran that the Prophet (saw) was allowed to marry more than four at one time.

You will only understand your "quranic claim" of inheritance of the Prophet (saw) after answering me the above.

You know what, it boils down to your pathethic understanding of the methodology of Ahlus Sunnah. Know the methodology of whom you want to argue with first or else, it makes you look dumb and stupid.

It was said that Imam Syafie once said,
"I can win arguments with 10 knowlegable people but I will lose arguments with a fool since a fool doesn't understand the principle and methodology of a knowledge."

Enough said.

"You've got anything to back up from the Quran why Prophet (saw) had nine wives at one time when Allah clearly says the following"

Since we're speaking about methodology, I'm not the one who believes that it is absolutely necessary that everything serious and important has to be in and from the Qur'an. I don't go around holding the Qur'an and asking you to prove every single thing or asking you to justify everything argument from the Qur'an. Lets get this straight first.

Can you tell me that when this verse was revealed,

"If you fear that you will not deal fairly with orphan girls, you may marry whichever [other] women seem good to you, two, three, or four. If you fear that you cannot be equitable [to them], then marry only one, or your slave(s): that is more likely to make you avoid bias"

the Prophet s.a.w was exempt from this rule, order and command and he continued to marry more than 4. Did the Prophet s.a.w have 9 wives altogether before this verse was revealed or did he have less than 9 but was exempt from this order and continued to exceed the maximum amount of 4 at one time. This is called anot intellectual argument. This is the sort of discussion your kind should engage in. And this is how you should respond.

Lets establish this fact first and then jump up and down.

"Please provide just an ayah from the Quran that the Prophet (saw) was allowed to marry more than four at one time"

Please prove to me that the Prophet s.a.w was exempt from this order and command and continued to exceed the maximum amount of 4. Use your aql.

Please prove to me that after these verses were revealed the Prophet s.a.w continued to marry more women and exceeded to the total amount of nine.

"Know the methodology of whom you want to argue with first or else, it makes you look dumb and stupid"

Yeh, you so desperately need to practice what you preach. Get to know and understand the Shia faith and belief first by asking and learning rather than throwing baseless accusations around based on what you've been fed by gossip and rumours.

"methodology of Ahlus Sunnah"

What exactly is the Ahle Sunnah methodology? Double-standards, hypocritical element, having a different set of rules and regulations for yourself and others, twist and change in principles, just making rules and changing them as you go along? What is your methodology?