Hundred Questions for Shias

[iceman]

No but it is absolutely incumbent upon you to accept what is "authentically" narrated from your "infallible" Imams (ra).  Otherwise, you are an apostate. 

By the way, it sounds very sweet to say that Qur'an is the scale and the measuring device.  It is sad, however, to then not be able to substantiate your usool-e-deen (Imamah) from the Qur'an.

Can we agree, as per Surah Al-Baqarah, disbelief in a portion of the book is to actually disbelieve?

There was no inheritance, hence, the Qur'an does not have to spell it.  The Qur'an explicitly states that Fay cannot owned by an individual or a group of individuals, therefore, there is no room to discuss inheritance unless you suffer from some mental disease or were raised upon blind hatred.

I have done better and you know it!  From the "infallible" Imams (ra) who are hujjah upon you, I proved that the punishment meted out in the case of Malik was justified and with one verse of the Qur'an, I completely shut down the entire discussion on Fadak, whether you see it as Fatima's (ra) inheritance or a gift given to her.  Your offspring cannot inherit what you do not own; similarly, you cannot gift someone something you do not own.

I have no problem with you denying the Qur'an and your own "infallible" Imams (ra); in fact, I expected nothing better.  However, do not insult our intelligence by claiming that you follow the two.

You are a liar!  I have always accepted your "proofs" for the sake of argument only to refute you using your own "proof".  That pattern is consistent from my side.

For the highlighted part, I must say that calling you a dimwit is an insult to dimwits.  You never cease to amaze me.  I mean, how low can you go?

That "Imamah" actually poses more problem for the Imamah you claim to follow.  I have given you the reasons.  Go read them again and try to refute those points.

"For the highlighted part, I must say that calling you a dimwit is an insult to dimwits"

Then don't call me a dimwit if you think that's an insult to you lot.

"You never cease to amaze me"

Of course I never amaze you because I'm always ready and prepared for you.

" mean, how low can you go?"

As long as honesty and truth can survive. That's how long.

"No but it is absolutely incumbent upon you to accept what is "authentically" narrated from your "infallible" Imams (ra).  Otherwise, you are an apostate"

Prove the punishment from the Qur'an just as you were quick and swift to prove the other punishment.

"It is sad, however, to then not be able to substantiate your usool-e-deen (Imamah) from the Qur'an:

Is it necessary that everything serious and important has to be from the Qur'an? If yes then prove from the Qur'an that Messengers and Prophets don't leave anything behind for inheritance or to be inherited. Prove and back this hadith from the Qur'an.

"Can we agree, as per Surah Al-Baqarah, disbelief in a portion of the book is to actually disbelieve?"

You accuse a companion of the Prophet s.a.w  (Malik bin Nuwayrah) and other companions alongside him of such a hideous crime? Because if you don't then Abu Bakr and Khalid go down really badly. So companions can lose their companionship? But according to you only despite not having clear reports. Not according to anybody else even with a genuine and clear reason? Pull the other one.

"There was no inheritance, hence, the Qur'an does not have to spell it"

Fatima along with the Prophet's s.a.w other relations had a right to inheritance just like anyone else. The Qur'an says so. You think they don't because Abu Bakr said so. Just as simple as that.

"The Qur'an explicitly states that Fay cannot owned by an individual or a group of individuals, therefore"

We're not talking about being owned. We are talking about inheritance. The Prophet s.a.w was obstructed from writing a will and then his relations were deprived from inheritance. Good show. Brilliant. Bravo. Well done.

[Hani]

`Ali confirmed what Abu Bakr said regarding the Prophet (saw) not leaving behind inheritance. End of story.

[iceman]

`Ali confirmed what Abu Bakr said regarding the Prophet (saw) not leaving behind inheritance. End of story.

And we believe, just exactly as you do, that certain things within history are fabricated or exaggerated etc. So please come back with something solid and worth while to defend your side of the argument. Not bits and pieces that suit your side of the argument.

[iceman]

Inheritance is considered as an integral part of Shariah Law. Muslims inherit from one another as stated in the Qur'an. Hence, there is a legal share for relatives of the decedent in his estate and property. The major rules of inheritance are detailed in Qur'an, Hadith and Fiqh.

The scope of this article is confined to traditional Sunni Islamic law..When a Muslim dies there are four duties which need to be performed. These are:

payment of funeral expenses;
payment of his/her debts;
execution his/her will; and
distribution of remaining estate amongst the heirs according to Shari'ah.

[iceman]

Inheritance is considered as an integral part of Shariah Law. Muslims inherit from one another as stated in the Qur'an. Hence, there is a legal share for relatives of the decedent in his estate and property. The major rules of inheritance are detailed in Qur'an, Hadith and Fiqh.

The scope of this article is confined to traditional Sunni Islamic law..When a Muslim dies there are four duties which need to be performed. These are:

payment of funeral expenses;
payment of his/her debts;
execution his/her will; and
distribution of remaining estate amongst the heirs according to Shari'ah.

Needless to say Muslims must follow all the commandments of Allah as Allah, the Almighty, says:

"It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any opinion in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, has indeed strayed into a plain error."
Al-Qur'an 33:36.

The particular importance of the Islamic laws of inheritance is obvious from the verses immediately following those verses giving specific details on inheritance shares:

"These are limits (set by) Allah (or ordainments as regards laws of inheritance), and whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger will be admitted to Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise), to abide therein, and that will be the great success. And whosoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, and transgresses His limits, He will cast him into the Fire, to abide therein; and he shall have a disgraceful torment."
Al-Quran 4:13-14

[Abu Muhammad]

Inheritance is considered as an integral part of Shariah Law. Muslims inherit from one another as stated in the Qur'an. Hence, there is a legal share for relatives of the decedent in his estate and property. The major rules of inheritance are detailed in Qur'an, Hadith and Fiqh.

The scope of this article is confined to traditional Sunni Islamic law..When a Muslim dies there are four duties which need to be performed. These are:

payment of funeral expenses;
payment of his/her debts;
execution his/her will; and
distribution of remaining estate amongst the heirs according to Shari'ah.

Are you writing an article?

[iceman]

Are you writing an article?

Are you willing to respond to the matter with honesty and being truthful to yourself? That's what you suppose to be looking at rather than searching for bits and pieces with a magnifying glass just to refute me based on a confrontational stance. 😊

[iceman]

Needless to say Muslims must follow all the commandments of Allah as Allah, the Almighty, says:

"It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any opinion in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, has indeed strayed into a plain error."
Al-Qur'an 33:36.

The particular importance of the Islamic laws of inheritance is obvious from the verses immediately following those verses giving specific details on inheritance shares:

"These are limits (set by) Allah (or ordainments as regards laws of inheritance), and whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger will be admitted to Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise), to abide therein, and that will be the great success. And whosoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, and transgresses His limits, He will cast him into the Fire, to abide therein; and he shall have a disgraceful torment."
Al-Quran 4:13-14

"Allah commands you regarding your children. For the male a share equivalent to that of two females ..."
Al-Qur'an 4:11

How exactly did the Prophet s.a.w full fill this command?

Not Fatima alone put the Prophet's s.a.w relations along with all of his wives excluding Aisha claimed for inheritance according to Sharia law based on and backed by Qur'anic verses of inheritance. How were they dealt with. We believe Abu Bakr "indeed strayed into a plain error."
Al-Qur'an 33:36.

Unless someone can back the Hadith he provided as evidence from the Qur'an to prevent the relations of the Prophet s.a.w from claiming their share of inheritance.

[iceman]

وَلَقَدْ أَخَذَ اللَّهُ مِيثَاقَ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ وَبَعَثْنَا مِنْهُمُ اثْنَيْ عَشَرَ نَقِيبًا ۖ وَقَالَ اللَّهُ إِنِّي مَعَكُمْ ۖ لَئِنْ أَقَمْتُمُ الصَّلَاةَ وَآتَيْتُمُ الزَّكَاةَ وَآمَنتُم بِرُسُلِي وَعَزَّرْتُمُوهُمْ وَأَقْرَضْتُمُ اللَّهَ قَرْضًا حَسَنًا لَّأُكَفِّرَنَّ عَنكُمْ سَيِّئَاتِكُمْ وَلَأُدْخِلَنَّكُمْ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي مِن تَحْتِهَا الْأَنْهَارُ ۚ فَمَن كَفَرَ بَعْدَ ذَٰلِكَ مِنكُمْ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ سَوَاءَ السَّبِيلِ

And Allah had already taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and We delegated from among them twelve leaders. And Allah said, "I am with you. If you establish prayer and give zakah and believe in My messengers and support them and loan Allah a goodly loan, I will surely remove from you your misdeeds and admit you to gardens beneath which rivers flow. But whoever of you disbelieves after that has certainly strayed from the soundness of the way."

Why did Allah mention about the past here? What was he referring to and why?

"We delegated from among them twelve leaders"

Twelve Leaders? Surely the number 12 is a very significant number.

"And Allah had already taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and We delegated from among them twelve leaders"

Can this be proven from the Torah? The Torah is the book of Allah revealed upon Moses, so can we prove this from the Torah just as we expect the the 12 Imams to be proven from the Qur'an?

[Abu Muhammad]

And we believe, just exactly as you do, that certain things within history are fabricated or exaggerated etc. So please come back with something solid and worth while to defend your side of the argument. Not bits and pieces that suit your side of the argument.

Are you willing to respond to the matter with honesty and being truthful to yourself? That's what you suppose to be looking at rather than searching for bits and pieces with a magnifying glass just to refute me based on a confrontational stance. 😊

LOL... "bits and pieces". Let us see.

Inheritance is considered as an integral part of Shariah Law. Muslims inherit from one another as stated in the Qur'an. Hence, there is a legal share for relatives of the decedent in his estate and property. The major rules of inheritance are detailed in Qur'an, Hadith and Fiqh.

The scope of this article is confined to traditional Sunni Islamic law..When a Muslim dies there are four duties which need to be performed. These are:

payment of funeral expenses;
payment of his/her debts;
execution his/her will; and
distribution of remaining estate amongst the heirs according to Shari'ah.

Needless to say Muslims must follow all the commandments of Allah as Allah, the Almighty, says:

"It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any opinion in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, has indeed strayed into a plain error."
Al-Qur'an 33:36.

The particular importance of the Islamic laws of inheritance is obvious from the verses immediately following those verses giving specific details on inheritance shares:

"These are limits (set by) Allah (or ordainments as regards laws of inheritance), and whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger will be admitted to Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise), to abide therein, and that will be the great success. And whosoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, and transgresses His limits, He will cast him into the Fire, to abide therein; and he shall have a disgraceful torment."
Al-Quran 4:13-14

1) The one highlighted in green was a "bits and pieces" from

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_inheritance_jurisprudence

2) The one highlighted in blue was a "bits and pieces" from:

https://www.islam101.com/sociology/inheritance.htm

3) The one highlighted in purple was also a "bits and pieces" from:

https://www.islam101.com/sociology/inheritance.htm

Who is doing "bits and pieces" business here?

And it also reminds me of what I've posted previously; "thoughtless copy and paste".
That's why even the phrase "The scope of this article" appeared in your post. How "thoughtless" it was. And by that "thoughtless copy and paste", you have made us "answer less, cornered and face defeat". LOL...

Another example... easy. ☺

What "answer less, cornered, face defeat" when almost every response posed by those brothers answered by you with "questions" or "thoughtless copy & paste". Do you want me to show you examples? Easy.

[iceman]

LOL... "bits and pieces". Let us see.

1) The one highlighted in green was a "bits and pieces" from
2) The one highlighted in blue was a "bits and pieces" from:
3) The one highlighted in purple was also a "bits and pieces" from:
Who is doing "bits and pieces" business here?

And it also reminds me of what I've posted previously; "thoughtless copy and paste".
That's why even the phrase "The scope of this article" appeared in your post. How "thoughtless" it was. And by that "thoughtless copy and paste", you have made us "answer less, cornered and face defeat". LOL...

Another example... easy. ☺

What can I say about you and your crappy response. You've got anything from the Qur'an to back your claim. That's what it all boils down to. Anything at all.

"We do not leave anything behind for inheritance or to be inherited but what we do leave behind is for charity and for charitable purpose only"

Yeh. Now back it from the Qur'an. Lets put up or shut up. Lets end it here. No more counter arguments or ridiculous excuses.

If you could have backed it from the Qur'an we wouldn’t have an argument to begin with. You carry on protecting certain individuals and defending their grave mistakes. Good luck to yeah.

[Abu Muhammad]

What can I say about you and your crappy response. You've got anything from the Qur'an to back your claim. That's what it all boils down to. Anything at all.

"We do not leave anything behind for inheritance or to be inherited but what we do leave behind is for charity and for charitable purpose only"

Yeh. Now back it from the Qur'an. Lets put up or shut up. Lets end it here. No more counter arguments or ridiculous excuses.

If you could have backed it from the Qur'an we wouldn’t have an argument to begin with. You carry on protecting certain individuals and defending their grave mistakes. Good luck to yeah.

You've got anything to back up from the Quran why Prophet (saw) had nine wives at one time when Allah clearly says the following:

وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلَّا تُقْسِطُوا فِي الْيَتَامَىٰ فَانْكِحُوا مَا طَابَ لَكُمْ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ مَثْنَىٰ وَثُلَاثَ وَرُبَاعَ ۖ فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلَّا تَعْدِلُوا فَوَاحِدَةً أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ أَدْنَىٰ أَلَّا تَعُولُوا

(Abdul Haleem)
If you fear that you will not deal fairly with orphan girls, you may marry whichever [other] women seem good to you, two, three, or four. If you fear that you cannot be equitable [to them], then marry only one, or your slave(s): that is more likely to make you avoid bias.

-Sura An-Nisa', Ayah 3

Please provide just an ayah from the Quran that the Prophet (saw) was allowed to marry more than four at one time.

You will only understand your "quranic claim" of inheritance of the Prophet (saw) after answering me the above.

You know what, it boils down to your pathethic understanding of the methodology of Ahlus Sunnah. Know the methodology of whom you want to argue with first or else, it makes you look dumb and stupid.

It was said that Imam Syafie once said,
"I can win arguments with 10 knowlegable people but I will lose arguments with a fool since a fool doesn't understand the principle and methodology of a knowledge."

Enough said.

[muslim720]

Then don't call me a dimwit if you think that's an insult to you lot.

I was actually referring to the rest of you all.

Of course I never amaze you because I'm always ready and prepared for you.

Undoubtedly, you are always ready and prepared for me to make a mockery out of you.

Prove the punishment from the Qur'an just as you were quick and swift to prove the other punishment.

Alhamdulilah, at least you admitted that your other point has been utterly refuted.  Now, instead of posing more challenges, have some shame and issue an apology.  If not, at least ponder over the following Shi'i belief.

"Kulaini has, according to reliable chains of narrators, narrated from Abi Salmah that he said: I have heard Imam Sadiq (a.s.) saying: We are the group whose obedience has been made a must for the creation by the Lord Almighty and people must recognize us (they cannot do without our recognition) and people are not helpless in knowing us and the one who knows us with our Imamate is a believer and the one who denies is a disbeliever and the one who neither knows us nor denies us is like a man of weak belief and misguided until he returns to our compulsory obedience, the obedience which has been made obligatory by Allah. If such a fellow dies in a condition of this misguidance, it is for the Almighty Allah either to punish him or to forgive him."

Taken from: https://www.al-islam.org/hayat-al-qulub-vol3-allamah-muhammad-baqir-al-majlisi/part-6-it-obligatory-obey-true-imams

Without complete obedience, you are a disbeliever, according to your own theology.  So why do you disregard your "infallible" Imams (ra) when it is authentically narrated from them that refusal to pay or give Zakah makes one an apostate who can then be subjected to capital punishment?

Is it necessary that everything serious and important has to be from the Qur'an? If yes then prove from the Qur'an that Messengers and Prophets don't leave anything behind for inheritance or to be inherited.

I am convinced that Prophets (asws) do not leave inheritance, a fact attested to by Shi'i and Sunni authentic narrations.  This point, however, takes center stage when discussing Fadak so instead of getting into discussions regarding this narration, I nip the whole argument in the bud. 

The Qur'an clearly forbids Fay from having an individual owner, or a group of owners, having exclusive rights to it.  Therefore, it can neither be gifted nor inherited.  Open-and-shut case.

Prove and back this hadith from the Qur'an.

I do not have to prove anything anymore; I have killed two birds with one stone.  Setting aside your flip-flopping belief that Fadak was inheritance but it was also a gift, Surah Hashr clearly forbids Fadak from being gifted or inherited.

You accuse a companion of the Prophet s.a.w  (Malik bin Nuwayrah) and other companions alongside him of such a hideous crime?

A Shi'i being upset that a "companion" of the Prophet (saw) is "accused" of a "hideous crime"?  The world must be coming to an end.  However, notice your next sentence: "Because if you don't then Abu Bakr and Khalid go down really badly."

That is your level of hypocrisy.  Two consecutive sentences and you commit the same mistake you wrongly accuse us of.

So companions can lose their companionship? But according to you only despite not having clear reports. Not according to anybody else even with a genuine and clear reason? Pull the other one.

Basic definition of being a Companion: accepting Islam, having met the Prophet (saw) and having died with eemaan (or as Muslim).

Are you denying that Muslims, in the past and today, have rejected Islam?

Fatima along with the Prophet's s.a.w other relations had a right to inheritance just like anyone else. The Qur'an says so. You think they don't because Abu Bakr said so. Just as simple as that.

No problem!  You will have to go back in time, find the possessions of the Prophet (saw) and give them to Fatima (ra).  So long as you understand that Surah Hashr forbids Fadak from being inherited by Fatima (ra) or gifted to her. 

Oh by the way, while you are in the past, also ask your first and second "infallible" Imams (ra) as to why they did not reclaim Fadak despite being the Caliphs and therefore, in charge of all the affairs of the Ummah.

We're not talking about being owned. We are talking about inheritance.

Are you being extra stupid this morning?  Can you inherit the Buckingham Palace?  Why not?  Because your father does not own it.  Owning a property is a necessary condition for your offspring to inherit it.

The Prophet s.a.w was obstructed from writing a will and then his relations were deprived from inheritance. Good show. Brilliant. Bravo. Well done.

A group of fallible individuals were able to do all this and four "infallible, Divinely Ordained and Aided" individuals (actually 5, if you include the Prophet s.a.w.) could not prevent or reverse these injustices?  Brilliant.  Bravo.  Well done.

[iceman]

You've got anything to back up from the Quran why Prophet (saw) had nine wives at one time when Allah clearly says the following:

وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلَّا تُقْسِطُوا فِي الْيَتَامَىٰ فَانْكِحُوا مَا طَابَ لَكُمْ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ مَثْنَىٰ وَثُلَاثَ وَرُبَاعَ ۖ فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلَّا تَعْدِلُوا فَوَاحِدَةً أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ أَدْنَىٰ أَلَّا تَعُولُوا

(Abdul Haleem)
If you fear that you will not deal fairly with orphan girls, you may marry whichever [other] women seem good to you, two, three, or four. If you fear that you cannot be equitable [to them], then marry only one, or your slave(s): that is more likely to make you avoid bias.

-Sura An-Nisa', Ayah 3

Please provide just an ayah from the Quran that the Prophet (saw) was allowed to marry more than four at one time.

You will only understand your "quranic claim" of inheritance of the Prophet (saw) after answering me the above.

You know what, it boils down to your pathethic understanding of the methodology of Ahlus Sunnah. Know the methodology of whom you want to argue with first or else, it makes you look dumb and stupid.

It was said that Imam Syafie once said,
"I can win arguments with 10 knowlegable people but I will lose arguments with a fool since a fool doesn't understand the principle and methodology of a knowledge."

Enough said.

"You've got anything to back up from the Quran why Prophet (saw) had nine wives at one time when Allah clearly says the following"

Since we're speaking about methodology, I'm not the one who believes that it is absolutely necessary that everything serious and important has to be in and from the Qur'an. I don't go around holding the Qur'an and asking you to prove every single thing or asking you to justify everything argument from the Qur'an. Lets get this straight first.

Can you tell me that when this verse was revealed,

"If you fear that you will not deal fairly with orphan girls, you may marry whichever [other] women seem good to you, two, three, or four. If you fear that you cannot be equitable [to them], then marry only one, or your slave(s): that is more likely to make you avoid bias"

the Prophet s.a.w was exempt from this rule, order and command and he continued to marry more than 4. Did the Prophet s.a.w have 9 wives altogether before this verse was revealed or did he have less than 9 but was exempt from this order and continued to exceed the maximum amount of 4 at one time. This is called anot intellectual argument. This is the sort of discussion your kind should engage in. And this is how you should respond.

Lets establish this fact first and then jump up and down.

"Please provide just an ayah from the Quran that the Prophet (saw) was allowed to marry more than four at one time"

Please prove to me that the Prophet s.a.w was exempt from this order and command and continued to exceed the maximum amount of 4. Use your aql.

Please prove to me that after these verses were revealed the Prophet s.a.w continued to marry more women and exceeded to the total amount of nine.

"Know the methodology of whom you want to argue with first or else, it makes you look dumb and stupid"

Yeh, you so desperately need to practice what you preach. Get to know and understand the Shia faith and belief first by asking and learning rather than throwing baseless accusations around based on what you've been fed by gossip and rumours.

"methodology of Ahlus Sunnah"

What exactly is the Ahle Sunnah methodology? Double-standards, hypocritical element, having a different set of rules and regulations for yourself and others, twist and change in principles, just making rules and changing them as you go along? What is your methodology?