No, the Fiqh issue which is debated is whether Sunnis are treated as Muslims ot kafirs. A group of our jurists ruled that Sunnis are najis, for example. But there is ijma on kufr of Sunnis.
Good to know!
I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't talking about whether there is a difference of opinion on the kufr of Sunnis, but a difference of opinion on how they are treated. That is the "simple Fiqh issue".
The big issue, which you keep missing, is this, not that you make takfir on us. If we are kafir, why is our treatment up for debate? The Qur'an and Sunnah clearly outlines how to deal with non-Muslims, from the People of the Book down to the last disbeliever. You are forced to make a special case for us because your own belief is absent from the sources you claim to use to "prove" our kufr, lol.
And I don't know why it's a big issue for you if it means takfir, lol, Sunni scholars declare us innovators and some go as far as declare us kafirs, and we're in Jahannam regardless.
....and there is no debate on it. If you are a Shia without extremist beliefs, you're a Muslim. If you're a Shia who, for example, believes in tahreef, etc, then you are NOT a Muslim; by the way, a "Sunni" who believes in tahreef is also kafir (just to set the record straight). No discussions on our end; straight to the verdict.
Of course I have proof you guys praise the killer of Ammar ibn Yassir (ra). Ibn Hazm said he made a mistake and did ijtihaad and sent taradhi on him.
Before we get to Ibn Hazm (rah), a fourth century Andalusian scholar, allow me to highlight the Shia misrepresentation of facts. Since the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah follows the Qur'an and offers unambiguous proof for their beliefs, Ibn Taymiyyah (rah) said, "We testify that Ammar is in heaven, and his killer,
if he is from the people of radhwan(those that gave the pledge under the tree), is in heaven." Why did Ibn Taymiyyah (rah) say this? Because the Qur'an guarantees these men the Pleasure of Allah (swt) and therefore, Jannah. Unlike you, my brother, we do not put our own logic, desires and convenience ahead of Islam. Now, the RTS Team lied upon Ibn Taymiyyah (rah) by claiming that he (Ibn Taymiyyah) said, "We swear heaven for Ammar and as for his killers they believe that heaven is for him also".
RTS also quotes Ibn Atheer (rah) and Al-Thahabi (rah) in an attempt to prove that Abu Al-Ghadiya pledged allegiance under the tree. However, all they did was quote that Abu Al-Ghadiya gave a pledge to the Prophet (saw) which does not prove that Abu Al-Ghadiya pledged under the tree and was from among those for whom verse 18 of Surah Fat'h was revealed. Many pledged allegiance to the Prophet (saw) during his prophethood but there is no proof that Abu Al-Ghadiya pledged allegiance to the Prophet (saw)
under the tree.
The narration that suggests that Abu Al-Ghadiya pledged allegiance to the Prophet (saw) makes it clear that his pledge came on the day of `Aqabah so it is possible that Ibn Hazm (rah) mistakenly took it as the pledge that was given under the tree. Read more:
http://www.twelvershia.net/2013/08/24/response-to-is-allah-swt-pleased-with-the-companions/I'm not telling you to call those who fought Imam Ali (as) kafirs, but you should call them rebels and renegades. But you can't do that, because of "ijtihada fa akhta". Lol.
You think you are slick but I already blocked your escape route. We say that Muawiyah was wrong, one hundred percent, in being hasty in the matter of qisas of Uthman (ra). However, as admitted by you, and here is where your escape route was blocked, if Muawiyah truly sought qisas and fought Imam Ali (ra) for that reason only (and not out of personal hatred towards Imam Ali (ra) as Shias claim), then he was not najis for fighting against Imam Ali (ra). Unless you claim that you know what is in the hearts and minds of men! However, the Prophet (saw) clearly referred to the killers of Ammar (ra) as rebels or transgressors and that is what we believe.
Also, my Imams (as) praised them? Please present proof for that. As I already know what to say to that, as it is a Sunni talking point that has even been refuted by intelligent Sunnis.
I said "him", not "them". Since you place the crime of the murder of Ammar (ra) on Muawiyah, did your Imams (ra) not make peace with Muawiyah? Did one not give his "Divinely Ordained" leadership to Muawiyah and trusted him with the affairs of the entire ummah? Were they not receiving stipend, as was their right, from Muawiyah? Did Imam Ali (ra) not refer to his party as Muslims and that they only differed on the matter of qisas?
Your entire paradigm is based on denial, my brother, and you accuse us of it, lol.
Sorry did I only say if it contradicts the Holy Qur'an? If it contradicts aql or general principles of the madhab, then it can be set aside.
So now we know that you place not just convenience but also aql ahead of the Prophet (saw), and thereby Islam. What does aql say? That it was a prostitute who was paid by Qarun to make up an allegation against Musa (asws)? And when Musa (asws) confronted the prostitute (and asked her to take an oath), she - without any overpowering evidence, action or speech against her from Musa (asws) - retracted her statement, as it says in Hayatul Quloob. That sounds very believable! Why did the prostitute accept the deal and then break so easily? And bear in mind this is the same Children of Israel who saw Jesus (asws) giving life to the dead and still reject him. Nothing short of seeing Musa (asws) naked would have put their accusations to rest. And that is what Allah (swt) arranged for without compromising Musa's (asws) modesty.
Unfortunately for you, it is false equivalence to equate death squads with terrorism in the Sunni world. Atleast 67 million Sunnis are sympathetic to ISIS according to a Pew Research Poll. And that's just ISIS.
You are right, it is false equivalence because, as I said, ISIS claimed to have a "fatwa" whereas Shia death squads killed Sunnis as though it is a given thing to do in their paradigm which needs no "fatwa". ISIS is a group of mercenaries who kill for the one with the highest bid; Shia death squads killed their own neighbors, the same neighbors whose houses they visited, whose food they ate.
As for your Pew Research, assuming 15% of the 1.7 billion Muslims are Shias, we are left with one billion four hundred forty-five million Sunnis. Therefore, 67 million/1.45 billion (approx) x 100 = 4.62%. So, to put things in perspective, 4.62 percent of the Sunni world supports ISIS, if what you shared is true. However, you did not provide a reference so I had to look it up.
Pew Research published an article with the title, "In nations with significant Muslim populations, much disdain for ISIS". It exposes your lie significantly. Read it here:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-significant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/