Imamah: usul al-din or usul al-mathab?

[iceman]

I know I'm not in the gym sparring; you wouldn't have lasted this long on sheer lack of endurance, let alone skills.  And it is not a taunt to say that you look dumb by stretching this discussion for no reason.  You look dumb when you quote weak narrations; you look dumber when you don't remember what you said yourself.

Kanz ul Ummal, Durre Manthur, the usual suspects or Shia favorites.  Bouncing the same weak hadith off various sources does not make it authentic.  Authenticity, in case you did not know, does not depend on how many books or works quote a certain narration.

On your list, had you paid attention before blindly copy-pasting it and if you had read the refutation, you would have seen the following common name "Tafseer at-Tabari" and it should have been obvious to you that it is talking about the same weak narration appearing in many works.  In fact, it clearly states the Qur'anic verse first, the same one you've quoted, "Those who believe and do righteous deeds are the best of the creatures." (Qur'an 98:7)

Who said the Sahaba (ra) were infallible?  It is not even remotely saying what you want it to say, let alone regarding the people you want to ascribe it to.

Equally dangerous as spreading false traditions is giving dichotomous, opposing answers to the same question.  And for it to be done by an "infallible", with the excuse of preserving the religion goes beyond bid'a and making mockery of religion and the masaakeen that follow such beliefs.

"It's obvious, you have a mindset....", stop Dr. Phil!  You do not care to read the scholarly refutation to your nonsense and you want me to give you my reason and you wish to test me if I can or if I'm "up to it".  What we are not up to is that we do not build our aqaaid on weak traditions, for example, adding the 3rd shahada in Adhan which, at best, has weak foundation according to your own madhhab.

first we had personal taunts followed by emotional outbursts and now we have arrogance and ignorance pouring in. How do you know I wouldn't have lasted that long? You're one cocky character.

[iceman]

Look I'm not ininterested in your personal taunts or your emotional stance. You want to get personal then find soneone else because you won't be getting any personal or emotional reaction or response out of me.

I asked you before and i'll ask you again, what is the method and procedure of you taking hadiths? How do you take and categorise them based on being strong or
Weak?

[muslim720]

first we had personal taunts followed by emotional outbursts and now we have arrogance and ignorance pouring in. How do you know I wouldn't have lasted that long? You're one cocky character.

You have serious issues, my brother.  You need to take away one thing from this discussion.  We have weak hadiths that are recorded so that brothers like yourself cannot use them as evidence against us.  They have been documented for that reason.  Think of a situation where you have counterfeit currency or online scams.  What is the first thing that officials look for?  To get their hands on the fake currency or scam emails.  Also, quoting the same weak hadith from various sources does not mean this hadith was widespread; it is still the same weak hadith with the same chain.  Nor does finding it in multiple works raise its authenticity unless there are many different chains with each chain answering for the flaw in the other.

Look I'm not ininterested in your personal taunts or your emotional stance. You want to get personal then find soneone else because you won't be getting any personal or emotional reaction or response out of me.

You had all the advice for my personal life.  You turned into my life coach suggesting I should do this and choose that.

I asked you before and i'll ask you again, what is the method and procedure of you taking hadiths? How do you take and categorise them based on being strong or
Weak?

Ask a hadith expert.  While you are at it, know that the hadith experts have ranked everything you've shared thus far as "weak" or "fabricated".  In other words, you've no case.  In a court of law, you'd have been counter-sued for producing forged evidence.

[iceman]

You have serious issues, my brother.  You need to take away one thing from this discussion.  We have weak hadiths that are recorded so that brothers like yourself cannot use them as evidence against us.  They have been documented for that reason.  Think of a situation where you have counterfeit currency or online scams.  What is the first thing that officials look for?  To get their hands on the fake currency or scam emails.  Also, quoting the same weak hadith from various sources does not mean this hadith was widespread; it is still the same weak hadith with the same chain.  Nor does finding it in multiple works raise its authenticity unless there are many different chains with each chain answering for the flaw in the other.

You had all the advice for my personal life.  You turned into my life coach suggesting I should do this and choose that.

Ask a hadith expert.  While you are at it, know that the hadith experts have ranked everything you've shared thus far as "weak" or "fabricated".  In other words, you've no case.  In a court of law, you'd have been counter-sued for producing forged evidence.

I have no issues. I'm a composed and calm individual with a level head. I can get personal and emotional but I won't. Why am I so calm and composed? You gave me some information now I will give you some. I'm an ex street fighter bare knuckle fighter, spectator sports. Old and out of date. Yes, ex. We all have our time and sell by date. Every single one of us. Plenty of experience, been there done that.

Anyways you still haven't answered my question, do your scholars have a mindset and what ever goes against it is considered weak or what?

[iceman]

You have serious issues, my brother.  You need to take away one thing from this discussion.  We have weak hadiths that are recorded so that brothers like yourself cannot use them as evidence against us.  They have been documented for that reason.  Think of a situation where you have counterfeit currency or online scams.  What is the first thing that officials look for?  To get their hands on the fake currency or scam emails.  Also, quoting the same weak hadith from various sources does not mean this hadith was widespread; it is still the same weak hadith with the same chain.  Nor does finding it in multiple works raise its authenticity unless there are many different chains with each chain answering for the flaw in the other.

You had all the advice for my personal life.  You turned into my life coach suggesting I should do this and choose that.

Ask a hadith expert.  While you are at it, know that the hadith experts have ranked everything you've shared thus far as "weak" or "fabricated".  In other words, you've no case.  In a court of law, you'd have been counter-sued for producing forged evidence.

What makes you think that I'm against you or I'm trying to use this, that or the other against you? Why are you on red alert constantly? Switch off the red light and turn on the green one. You talk about positive experience and attending mosques managed by Shias and this is your attitude and true colours.

Back to hadiths and narations, find out what your method and procedure is, how do you exactly categorise. This is my issue and problem than none of you guys can or want to engage in a civilised and academic discussion.

[Abu Muhammad]

Your welcome and thank you for bringing this topic up. Believing Sunnis are kafir does not necessarily mean unity is wrong, we see that many nations are united despite their populations following different faiths.

We have common goals for the bettering of the Ummah (Palestine for example), and that's what unity is about. Unity in aqeeda is a no-no but unity on political goals and economic goals and community togetherness (visiting each other, attendibg each other funerals etc...) is not an issue to us, in fact that's the best option.

What do you think those unity-minded Shia calling us to unite on? MUSLIM UNITY! We are not Muslims in reality according to you so stop playing with words.

I'm still waiting for @Ibrahim to comment on this.

[iceman]

You're not happy with me copy and pasting, well I'm putting it to you in black and white, where as you provide the link. So what's the difference, what's the issue? Talk about and argue and discuss the material, don't moan about it.

Praise be to Allah.

The well known hadeeth about the ummah splitting into seventy-three sects is the hadeeth of Mu‘aawiyah ibn Abi Sufyaan (may Allah be pleased with him), who said: The Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)
stood up amongst us and said: “Those who came before you of the people of the Book split into seventy-two sects, and this ummah will split into seventy-three sects, seventy-two of which will be in the Fire and one in Paradise. That is the
jamaa’ah (the main body of Muslims).”

Narrated by Abu Dawood (4597) and others; classed as saheeh by al-Haakim (1/128). In fact he said: It is an important hadeeth that highlights a major fundamental issue. It was also classed as saheeh by Ibn Taymiyah in Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa (3/345), ash-Shaatibi in al-I‘tisaam (1/430) and al-‘Iraqi in Takhreej al-Ihya’ (3/199).

The hadeeth was also narrated by at-Tirmidhi (2641) as follows: “My ummah will split into seventy-three sects, all of whom will be in the Fire except one sect.” They said: Who are they, O Messenger of Allah? He said: “[Those who follow] the path which I and my companions follow.” It was classed as hasan by Ibn al-‘Arabi in Ahkaam al-Qur’an (3/432), al-‘Iraqi in Takhreej al-Ihya’ (3/284) and al-Albaani in Saheeh at-Tirmidhi.

The words of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), “My ummah will split into seventy-three sects” indicate that the differences that lead to splitting are differences concerning fundamentals and beliefs, not in minor issues and rulings of fiqh. The words of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) concerning the saved group, “That is the jamaa‘ah (the main body of Muslims)” or, according to another report “[Those who follow] the path which I and my companions follow” also confirm that. Those who differ concerning minor issues are not regarded as
going beyond the bounds of the jamaa‘ah by doing so, or as going beyond the bounds of the teachings of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and his Companions.

The Sahaabah differed concerning various minor issues, but that did not lead to their splitting and becoming divided. No one said that as a result of those (minor) differences they were included in the hadeeth about the sects; rather they were one group (jamaa‘ah), following one path and the same fundamentals of belief. The same may be said about the four Imams, the founders of the madhhabs that are followed, and other people of knowledge and virtue. They are the jamaa‘ah, the saved group, Ahl as-Sunnah. Whoever deviates from their basic principles and beliefs is the one who deserves to be included among the people of the sects and innovators who go astray.

Hence ash-Shaatibi (may Allah have mercy on him) said: These sects only became sects because of their differing from the saved group with regard to some fundamental matter of religion, or one of the basic principles of sharee‘ah, not with regard to a minor matter, because having a different view or an odd view on a minor matter does not lead to a difference that would result in splitting and division. Rather division occurs when there are differences concerning fundamental matters. End quote from al-I‘tisaam (2/200). Thus it is known that the four imams are innocent of division, as are their followers who adhere to the basic principles of Ahl as-Sunnah. As for those who differ from that and follow the ways of the Mu‘tazilah, Shi‘ah, Murji’ah or other sects and followers of whims and desires, this is the one who has gone against Ahl as-Sunnah and is included among the blameworthy sects.

[iceman]

THE AUTHENTICITY OF THE HADITH ABOUT 73 SECTS.

October 9, 2013 by muwahhidmedia n Fatawaa (Q&A), Hadith.

Question: What is the authenticity of the hadith about 73 sects?

Answer: This hadith is authentically attributed to the Prophet salla Allahu ‘alayhi wasalama. It was narrated from different directions and by several companions radiya Allahu ‘anhum. Some of the later scholars have criticized the authenticity of this hadith, and raised some questions about it, but with no basis.

So this hadith was prevalently accepted by scholars, and was narrated by Imam Ahmad, Abu Dawud, at-Tirmithi, Ibn Maadjah, and others, on the authority of Muhammad Ibn ‘Amr from Abi Salamah that Abi Hurrarah narrated that the Messenger of Allah salla Allahu ‘alayhi wasalama said: “The Jews have separated into 71 or 72 sects, and the Christians have been separated into 71 or 72 sects, and my Ummah on 73 sects.’”

This chain is Sahih [authentic], as was authenticated by at-Tirmithi, Ibn Habban, Al-Haakim and others.

The hadith of Mu’aawiyah radiya Allahu ‘anhu is authentic as well which states: “Indeed this nation will split into 73 sects, 72 will be in the hell-fire, and one will be in paradise, and that is the Jama’ah.” Narrated by Abu Dawood in his Sunnan.

The hadeeth was also narrated as follows:

By Ibn Majah’s Sunnan on the authority of ‘Awf bin Malik.
By at-Tirmithi with a weak chain on the authority of Abdullah bin ‘Amr Bin al-‘Aas.
By Ibn Majah and Ibn Abi ‘Aasim on the authority of Anas bin Malik.
By Muhammad bin Nasr in his book al-Sunnah and Ibn Abi ‘Aasim on the authority of Abi Umamah.
So these sound aHadith is speak about the inevitability of the separation of this Ummah, and that it will happen any way, and that only one group can be the saved sect, which is the Jama‘ah. This sect will remain victorious until Allah’s order comes [i.e. the day of judgement].

[iceman]

The above Fatwa was from, Sulaymān Ibn Nāsir Ibn ‘Abdillāh Al-‘Ulwān.

He was born and raised in the city of Buraydah in the province of Al-Qasīm, in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, in the year 1389 H. He was one of nine sons; three older brothers and five younger. Shaykh Sulaymān began his studies in the year 1404 H. when he was fifteen years old, in his third year of middle school. Upon completion of middle school, he spent no more than fifteen days in high school before deciding to leave the institution and completely enter the study of the Sharī’ah sciences and Islāmic knowledge, by studying from the scholars and reading and reviewing their books. He was married in the year 1410 H. and has three sons, the oldest of which is ‘Abdullāh, who is nine years old.

During his early days, he demonstrated an impressive ability to memorize and showed a very deep understanding of the writings of the various sciences of the Sharī’ah. And from the origins of his exclusive studies, Shaykh Sulaymān has spent most of his days in reading, memorizing and reviewing the books of knowledge.

Initially, he focussed upon the writings of Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Al-Qayyim, the Imāms of Najd, Ibn Rajab, the Sīrah [Prophetic Biographical Accounts] of Ibn Hishām and “Al-Bidiyāh Wan-Nihiyāh” of Ibn Kathīr. And he would review with the scholars, depending on their areas of expertise. He used to visit four different scholars daily; one after Fajr, another after Thuhur, another after Maghrib and another after Ishā’. And he stayed upon this routine day in and day out, except for Fridays, until he began studying from all the schools of Fiqh [Mathāhib] and the selected opinions of Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Al-Qayyim and Ibn Hazm may Allāh be be merciful to them. When asked about how much time he spends in reading, memorizing and reviewing, the Shaykh responded, “A little more than fifteen hours per day.”

In the year 1410 H., he began giving lessons in his home and in 1411 H. he began giving lessons in the Mosque during the week after Fajr, Dhuhr and Maghrib, except on Fridays.

This has been summarized from the short treatise entitled, “Safahāt Min Hayāt Fadhīlat Ash- Shaykh Sulaymān Ibn Nāsir Al-‘Ulwān”, [Pages from the Life of the Virtuous Shaykh Sulaymān Ibn Nāsir Al-‘Ulwān], prepared by Abū Muhammad Yūsuf As-Sālih. As well as things added by the translators that have happened to the Shaykh since the publishing of his above mentioned biography.

When he traveled to Al-Madīnah, he sat with Shaykh Hammād Al-Ansārī, who issued him the license [Ijāzah] to teach the Six Books [of Hadīth] as well as “Musnad Ahmad”, “Muwatta’ Imām Mālik ,”the two Sahīhs of Ibn Khuzaymah and Ibn Hibbān and the two Musannafs of ‘Abdur-Razzāq and Ibn Abī Shaybah. He also issued him the license of the Tafsīr of Ibn Jarīr and “Tafsīr Ibn Kathīr”. And in grammar, “Al-Alfiyyah” by Ibn Mālik and many of the books of jurisprudence [Fiqh]. And during this visit, he heard the Shaykh narrate the Hadīth, “The Most Merciful [Ar-Rahmān] has mercy upon those who show mercy [to others].” And this was the first Hadīth he heard with the chain of narration,

From the scholar’s lips, extending all the way back to the Messenger of Allāh صلى وسلم عليه .اهللاThis took place on 18/8/1413H. Later, he traveled to Makkah and sat with the scholars there and received similar licenses to teach in the other books of the Sunnah, Tafsīr and jurisprudence.

[iceman]

1) The Hadith referred is as follows:

أخبرنا أبو العباس قاسم بن القاسم السياري بمرو ثنا أبو الموجه حدثنا أبو عمار : ثنا الفضل بن موسى عن محمد بن عمرو عن أبي سلمة عن أبي هريرة : أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم قال : افترقت اليهود على إحدى و سبعين فرقة أو اثنتين و سبعين فرقة و النصارى مثل ذلك و تفترق أمتي على ثلاث و سبعين فرقة (المستدرك)

“Abu Hurayrah (RadiyAllahu Anhu) relates that Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: ‘The Jews were divided into 71 or 72 sects as were the Christians. My Ummah will be divided into 73 sects.”   (Al-Mustadrak)

The hadith of our beloved Prophet is in Hadith book Abu Dawood:

In this hadith the prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said, “My community will be split up into seventy-three sects.”

(Sunan Abu Dawood Hadith No. 4579)

2) Another Hadith is there in Hadith book Tirmdhi Hadith no 171 Narrated byAbdullah ibn Amr
Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: There will befall my Ummah exactly (all those) evils which befell the people of Isra'il, so much so that if there was one amongst them who openly committed fornication with his mother there will be among my Ummah one who will do that, and if the people of Isra'il were fragmented into seventy-two sects my Ummah will be fragmented into seventy-three sects. All of them will be in Hell Fire except one sect. They (the Companions) said: Allah's Messenger, which is that? Whereupon he said: It is one to which I and my companions belong.

[iceman]

A.(#DrZakirNaikQA):

1. Muslims Should be United.

It is a fact that Muslims today, are divided amongst themselves. The tragedy is that such divisions are not endorsed by Islam at all. Islam believes in fostering unity amongst its followers. The Glorious Qur’an says: “And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves;” [Al-Qur’an 3:103] Which is the rope of Allah that is being referred to in this verse? It is the Glorious Qur’an. The Glorious Qur’an is the rope of Allah which all Muslims should hold fast together. There is double emphasis in this verse. Besides saying ‘hold fast all together’ it also says, ‘be not divided’. Qur’an further says, “Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger” [Al-Qur’an 4:59] All the Muslim should follow the Qur’an and authentic ahadith and be not divided among themselves.

2. It is Prohibited to make sects and divisions in Islam.

The Glorious Qur’an says: “As for those who divide Their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: Their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.” [Al-Qur’an 6:159] In this verse Allah (swt) says that one should disassociate oneself from those who divide their religion and break it up into sects. But when one asks a Muslim, “who are you?”, the common answer is either ‘I am a Sunni, or ‘I am Shia’. Some call themselves Hanafi, or Shafi or Maliki or Hambali. Some say ‘I am a Deobandi’, while some others say ‘I am a Barelvi’.

3. Our Prophet was a Muslim.

One may ask such Muslims, “Who was our beloved prophet (pbuh)? Was he a
Hanafi or a Shafi, or a Humbali or a Maliki?” No! He was a Muslim, like all the
other prophets and messengers of Allah before him.
It is mentioned in chapter 3 verse 52 of Al-Qur’an that Jesus (pbuh) was a Muslim.
Further, in chapter 3 verse 67, Al-Qur’an says that Ibrahim (pbuh) was not a
Jew or a Christian but was a Muslim.

4. Qur’an says call yourselves Muslim.

a. If anyone poses a Muslim the question who are you, he should say “I am a MUSLIM, not a Hanafi or a Shafi”. Surah Fussilat chapter 41 verse 33 says “Who is better in speech than one who calls (men) to Allah, works righteousness, and says, ‘I am of those Who bow in Islam (Muslim)?’ ” [Al-Qur’an 41:33] The Qur’an says “Say I am of those who bow in Islam”. In other words, say, “I am a Muslim”.

b. The Prophet (pbuh) dictated letters to non-Muslim kings and rulers inviting
them to accept Islam. In these letters he mentioned the verse of the Qur’an
from Surah Ali Imran chapter 3 verse 64: Say ye: “Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah’s Will).”
[Al-Qur’an 3:64].

So what do you think? Don't call yourselves SUNIS and don't call us SHIAS, lets call each other MUSLIMS. What do you say?

[muslim720]

2. It is Prohibited to make sects and divisions in Islam.

The Glorious Qur’an says: “As for those who divide Their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: Their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.” [Al-Qur’an 6:159] In this verse Allah (swt) says that one should disassociate oneself from those who divide their religion and break it up into sects. But when one asks a Muslim, “who are you?”, the common answer is either ‘I am a Sunni, or ‘I am Shia’. Some call themselves Hanafi, or Shafi or Maliki or Hambali. Some say ‘I am a Deobandi’, while some others say ‘I am a Barelvi’.

This will hurt, really, so I want you to brace yourself for impact.  Earlier, you wanted us to believe that the Prophet (saw) praised Imam Ali (ra) and his Shias (by quoting a weak hadith).

Let me quote the Arabic transliteration of Surah Al-An'am verse 159 so you can see your blunder:
"Inna Al-Ladhīna Farraqū Dīnahum Wa Kānū Shiya`āan Lasta Minhum Fī Shay'in ۚ 'Innamā 'Amruhum 'Ilá Allāhi Thumma Yunabbi'uhum Bimā Kānū Yaf`alūna" (Qur'an 6:159)

The Qur'an is telling the Prophet (saw) that he has nothing to do with those who break up the religion and become "Shiya" and you want us to believe that the same Prophet (saw) praised Imam Ali's (ra) Shias.

Furthermore, there is another verse in the Qur'an condemning "Shia" or breaking into sects; Surah Ar-Rum verses 31 and 32:
"Turn ye back in repentance to Him, and fear Him: establish regular prayers, and be not ye among those who join gods with God,

Those who split up their Religion, and become (mere) Sects,- each party rejoicing in that which is with itself!"

Transliteration for verse 32 of Surah Ar-Rum, "Mina Al-Ladhīna Farraqū Dīnahum Wa Kānū Shiya`āan ۖ Kullu Ĥizbin Bimā Ladayhim Fariĥūna"

Again, "Shiya" is condemned!

[iceman]

This will hurt, really, so I want you to brace yourself for impact.  Earlier, you wanted us to believe that the Prophet (saw) praised Imam Ali (ra) and his Shias (by quoting a weak hadith).

Let me quote the Arabic transliteration of Surah Al-An'am verse 159 so you can see your blunder:
"Inna Al-Ladhīna Farraqū Dīnahum Wa Kānū Shiya`āan Lasta Minhum Fī Shay'in ۚ 'Innamā 'Amruhum 'Ilá Allāhi Thumma Yunabbi'uhum Bimā Kānū Yaf`alūna" (Qur'an 6:159)

The Qur'an is telling the Prophet (saw) that he has nothing to do with those who break up the religion and become "Shiya" and you want us to believe that the same Prophet (saw) praised Imam Ali's (ra) Shias.

Furthermore, there is another verse in the Qur'an condemning "Shia" or breaking into sects; Surah Ar-Rum verses 31 and 32:
"Turn ye back in repentance to Him, and fear Him: establish regular prayers, and be not ye among those who join gods with God,

Those who split up their Religion, and become (mere) Sects,- each party rejoicing in that which is with itself!"

Transliteration for verse 32 of Surah Ar-Rum, "Mina Al-Ladhīna Farraqū Dīnahum Wa Kānū Shiya`āan ۖ Kullu Ĥizbin Bimā Ladayhim Fariĥūna"

Again, "Shiya" is condemned!

Ma brother nothing hurts or can harm me, so you you can bring forward what ever you wish and like. I'm on a forum and I'm  trying to have a discussion to understand and to get to know. You on the other hand still think you're in the gym or in the ring, you think and sound as though you're in some sort of contest or challenge. You need to calm down. Nicely put forward and you will also get a similar response from me to put to rest this example and explanation you've given. Wait for it, you'll love it.

[iceman]

I COULDN'T HAVE SAID THIS ANY MORE BEAUTIFULLY AND ACCURATELY.

The Term Shi’a in Qur’an and Hadith.    بِسْمِ اللَّـهِ الرَّحْمَـٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ
 
The word "Shi’a”means "followers; members of party". As such, the term "Shi’a”alone has no negative or positive meaning unless we specify the leader of the party. If one is a Shi’a (follower) of the most righteous servants, then there is nothing wrong with being Shi’a, specially if the leader of such party has been assigned by Allah.

On the other hand, if one becomes the Shi’a a tyrant or a wrong-doer, he shall meet with the fate of his leader. In fact, Qur’an indicates that on the day of Judgment people will come in groups, and each group has its leader in front of it. Allah, to whom belong Might and Majesty, said:

One day We shall call every group of people by their respective Imams. (Qur’an 17:71)

In the day of judgment, the destiny of the "followers”of each group highly depends on the destiny of his Imam (provided that they really followed that Imam). Allah mentioned in Qur’an that there are two types of Imams. Some Imams are those who invite people to Hell fire. They are tyrannical leaders of each era (like Pharaoh, etc.):

And We made them (but) Imams inviting to the Fire; and on the Day of Judgment no help shall they find. In this world We continued to curse them; and on the Day of Judgment they will be among the hateful. (Qur’an 28:41-42).

Certainly, being the members of the parties of such Satanic Imams has been severely denounced in Qur’an, and the followers of such parties will meet the fate of their leaders. However, Qur’an also reminds that there are Imams who are appointed by Allah as Guides for the mankind:

"And We assigned from among them some Imams who GUIDE by Our authority since they were patient and believed firmly in Our Signs.”(Qur’an 32:24)

Certainly, the true followers (Shi’a) of these Imams will be the real prosperous on the day of resurrection. Thus being a Shi’a does not mean anything, unless we know the Shi’a of whom. Allah mentioned in Qur’an that Some of His righteous servants were Shi’a of His other righteous servants. An example was Prophet Abraham who was mentioned in Qur’an specifically as the Shi’a of Noah:

"And most surely Abraham was among the Shi’a of him (i.e., Noah)”(Qur’an 37:83)

 وَإِنَّ مِن شِيعَتِهِ لَإِبْرَاهِيمَ ﴿الصافات: ٨٣﴾

(Notice that the word "Shi’a”is explicitly used, letter by letter, in the above verse as well as the following verse.) In another verse, Qur’an talks about the Shi’a of Moses versus the enemies of Moses:

"And he (Moses) went into the city at a time when people (of the city) were not watching, so he found therein two men fighting, one being of his Shi’a and the other beinghis enemy, and the one who was of his Shi’a cried out to him for help against the one who was of his enemy”(Qur’an 28:15)

فَوَجَدَ فِيهَا رَجُلَيْنِ يَقْتَتِلَانِ هَـٰذَا مِن شِيعَتِهِ وَهَـٰذَا مِنْ عَدُوِّهِ ۖفَاسْتَغَاثَهُ الَّذِي مِن شِيعَتِهِ عَلَى الَّذِي مِنْ عَدُوِّهِ...

In the above verse of Qur’an, one is named the Shi’a of Moses (as) and the other one is named the enemy of Moses, and the people at that time were either the Shi’a or the enemy of Moses (as). Thus Shi’a is an official word used by Allah in His Qur’an for His high rank prophets as well as their followers. Do you want to say Prophet Abraham was sectarian? How about Prophet Noah and Prophet Moses?

If somebody calls himself a Shi’a, it is not due to any sectarianism, nor any innovation. It is because Qur’an has used the phrase for some of His best servants. The above verses that I mentioned in support of Shi’a, has used this term singular form (i.e., one group of followers).

This means that it has special meaning, such as: The Shi’a of Noah (as), The Shi’a of Moses (as). Also in the History of Islam, Shi’a has been specially used for the "followers of ‘Ali". The first individual who used this term was the Messenger of Allah himself:

The Messenger of Allah said to ‘Ali: "Glad tiding O ‘Ali! Verily you and your companions and your Shi’a (followers) will be in Paradise."

يا علي أبشر فإنك و أصحابك و شيعتك في الجنَّة

Sunni references:

1. Fadha’il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p655

2. Hilyatul Awliyaa, by Abu Nu’aym, v4, p329

3. Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v12, p289

4. al-Awsat, by al-Tabarani

5. Majma’ al-Zawa’id, by al-Haythami, v10, pp 21-22

6. al-Darqunti, who said this tradition has been transmitted via numerous authorities.

7. al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami , Ch. 11, section 1, p247

Thus the Messenger of Allah (S) used to say the phrase of "Shi’a of ‘Ali". This phrase is not something invented later! Prophet Muhammad (S) said that the TRUE followers of imam ‘Ali will go to Paradise, and this is a great felicity. Also Jabir Ibn Abdillah al-Ansari narrated that:

The Messenger of Allah (S) said: "The Shi’a of ‘Ali are the real victorious in the day of resurrection/rising"

شيعة علي هم الفائزون يوم القيامة

Sunni references:

• al-Manaqib Ahmad, as mentioned in:

• Yanabi al-Mawaddah, by al-Qundoozi al-Hanafi, p62

• Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Hafidh Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, who quotes the tradition as follows: "We were with the Holy Prophet when ‘Ali came towards us. The Holy Prophet said: He and his Shi’a will aquire salvation on the day of judgment."

The "day of rising”may also refer to the day of rising of al-Mahdi (as). But in more general term, it means the day of judgment. Also it is narrated that:

The Messenger of Allah said: "O ‘Ali! On the Day of Judgment I shall resort to Allah and you will resort to me and your children will resort to you and the Shi’a will resort to them. Then you will see where they carry us. (i.e. to Paradise)"

Sunni reference: Rabi al-Abrar, by al-Zamakhshari

Furthermore, it is narrated that:

The Messenger of Allah said: "O ‘Ali! (On the day of Judgment) you and your Shi’a will come toward Allah well-pleased and well-pleasing, and there will come to Him your enemies angry and stiff-necked (i.e., their head forced up).

Sunni references:

• al-Tabarani, on the authority of Imam ‘Ali

• al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p236

A more complete version of the tradition which has also been reported by the Sunnis, is as follows:

Ibn Abbas (ra) narrated:

When the verse "Those who believe and do righteous deeds are the best of the creation (Qur’an 98:7)”

was revealed, the Messenger of Allah (S) said to ‘Ali: "They are you and your Shi’a.”He continued: "O ‘Ali! (On the day of Judgment) you and your Shi’a will come toward Allah well-pleased and well-pleasing, and your enemies will come angry with their head forced up. ‘Ali said: "Who are my enemies?”The Prophet (S) replied: "He who disassociates himself from you and curses you. And glad tiding to those who reach first under the shadow of al-’Arsh on the day of resurrection.”‘Ali asked: "Who are they, O the Messenger of Allah?”He replied: "Your Shi’a, O ‘Ali, and those who love you."

Sunni references:

• al-Hafidh Jamaluddin al-Dharandi, on the authority of Ibn Abbas

• al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 11, section 1, pp 246-247

Then Ibn Hajar provides a bizarre commentary for the first tradition, saying:

The Shi’a of ‘Ali are the Ahlussunnah since they are those who love Ahlul-Bayt as Allah and His Prophet ordered. But others (i.e., other than Sunnis) are the enemies of Ahlul-Bayt in reality for the love outside the boundary of law is the great enmity, and that was the reason for their fate. Also, the enemies of Ahlul-Bayt were al-Khawarij and their alike from Syria, not Muawiyah and other companions because they were Muteawweloon, and for them is a good reward, and for ‘Ali and his Shi’a is a good reward!

Sunni reference:

• al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 11, section 1, p236

And this is how Sunni scholars cope with the prophetic traditions in favor of "Shi’a of ‘Ali"! They say that they are the real Shi’a!

Let us look at one more tradition in this regard:

The Messenger of Allah said to ‘Ali: "The first four individuals who will enter the Paradise are me, you, al-Hasan, and al-Husayn, and our progeny will be behind us, and our wives will be behind our progeny, and our Shi’a will be on our right side and in our company."

Sunni references:

• al-Manaqib, by Ahmad

• al-Tabarani, as quoted in:

• al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami , Ch. 11, section 1, p246

From the above pieces of evidence, the word "Shi’a”is used by Allah in Qur’an for His prophets as well as their followers. Further, His blessed Prophet, Muhammad (S) has repeatedly used this word for the followers of Imam ‘Ali (as). The word Shi’a is used here in its special meaning, and moreover, it is not in plural form (Parties), rather the above verses and traditions are referring to a special party, i.e., one single party. If Shi’a meant sectarian, neither Allah would use it for His high rank prophets nor Prophet Muhammad (S) would have praised them.

However there are some verses in Qur’an which uses the plural form of Shi’a that is "Shi-ya’a”which means "Parties/groups". This is a general meaning of this term, and not the special meaning in singular form which has been given in previous examples. Of course, only one single party is accepted by Allah and the rest are severely denounced because they have separated from that unique party. So it is clear why Allah denounced "Groups/Parties/sects”(plural form) who separated from that unique group in some verses of Qur’an. There can’t be two righteous groups (with conflicting ideas) at the same time, because between the two leaders one is surely better and more qualified, and thus the claims and the motives of the other leader goes under question.

However I did not locate the exact term of "Ahlussunnah wal-Jama’ah", nor did I find "al-Wahhabiyyah", "al-Salafiyyah”anywhere in the Holy Qur’an or the traditions of the Prophet. I agree that we should follow the Sunnah of Prophet, but I would like to discover the origin of the exact term here. We Shi’a are proud to follow the Sunnah of Prophet.

However, the question is that which Sunnah is genuine and which one is not. The word "Sunnah”by itself does not serve the purpose of knowledge. All Muslims irrespective to their persuasions claim that they follow the Sunnah of Prophet (S). Please refer to the article titled "Qur’an and Ahlul-Bayt”for a detailed discussion in this regard.

It should be emphasized that the Messenger of Allah never wished to divide Muslims into groups. Prophet ordered all people to follow Imam ‘Ali (as) as his agent during his life time, and as his Caliph after him. Prophet wished everybody does that.

But unfortunately those who heeded him were few and were known as "Shi’a of ‘Ali”who were subject to all sort of discrimination and prosecution, and suffered from day one of the demise of the Mercy to Mankind, Muhammad (S). If every one (or say the majority Muslims) had obeyed what prophet wished, then there wouldn’t exist any group or school within Islam. Allah said in Qur’an:

"Hold fast to the Rope of Allah, all of you together and do not separate”(Qur’an 3:103)"

The Rope of Allah which we should not separate from, are the Ahlul-Bayt. In fact, some Sunni scholars narrated from Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq (as) saying:

"We are the Rope of Allah about whom Allah has said: ‘Hold fast to the Rope of Allah, all of you together and do not diverge (3:103)’"

Sunni references:

• al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami , Ch. 11, section 1, p233

• Tafsir al-Kabir, by al-Tha’labi, under commentary of verse 3:103

Thus, if Allah denounces the sectarianism, He denounces those who separated from His Rope, and not those who hold fast to it! Also some said the Rope of Allah is Qur’an. This is also true. But by looking at the following tradition narrated by Umm Salama who said:

The Messenger of Allah said: "‘Ali is with Qur’an, and Qur’an is with ‘Ali. They shall not separate from each other till they both return to me by the Pool (of Paradise)."

Sunni references:

• al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p124 on the authority of Umm Salama

• al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 9, section 2, pp 191,194

• al-Awsat, by al-Tabarani; also in al-Saghir

• Tarikh al-Khulafa, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, p173

Then we can conclude that Imam ‘Ali is “the Qur’an verbatim “. That is, Imam ‘Ali is the Strong Rope of Allah also, because they (Qur’an and ‘Ali) are non-separable. In fact, there are a huge number of traditions in authentic Sunni sources where Prophet said Qur’an and Ahlul-Bayt are inseparable and if Muslims want to remain in the right path, they should stick to both of them. (Please refer to the article titled: Qur’an and Ahlul-Bayt). Therefore, one can conclude that those who separated from Ahlul-Bayt are the sectarian who divided into sects and were denounced by Allah and His prophet due to their divergence.

In fact, the opinion of majority is not a good criteria to distinguish the false from the truth. If you look at the Qur’an, you will see that Qur’an severely denounces the majority of by frequently saying that "the majority do not understand", "the majority do not use their logic", "the majority follow their whims"...

In another verse, Allah said:

"You are the best nation (Ummah) that has been raised up for the (benefit of) people. You enjoin the good and forbid the evil...”(Qur’an 3:110).

The best nation is also the Ahlul-Bayt. Let us remember that according to Qur’an, "nation”does not mean the whole people. This is even clear from the above verse that such Ummah (nation) are raised FOR benefiting the people. Thus Ummah can be only a subset of people and not the whole people. In fact one person can be a nation. Sometimes the act of a single person is worthier than the deeds of the whole nation. This was the case for Prophet Muhammad, Imam ‘Ali, as well as the case for Prophet Abraham, peace be upon them all. Qur’an states that Abraham (as) was a nation (Ummah), meaning that his deeds was more valuable than all other people. Allah stated:

"Lo! Abraham was a nation (Ummah) who was obedient to Allah, by nature upright, and he was not of the idolaters”(Qur’an 16:120)

Thus, one single individual can be a nation in the language of Qur’an. As for the Verse 3:100, it is interesting to note that some Sunni scholars have narrated from Abu Ja’far (Imam Baqir (as)) that:

Abu Ja’far (as) said about the verse ‘You are the best nation raised up for the (benefit of) people...(3:110)’: "The Members of the House of the Prophet."

Sunni references:

• Ibn Abi Hatam, as mentioned in:

• al-Durr al-Manthoor, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti under commentary of verse 3:110 of holy Qur’an.

Also Allah mentioned in Qur’an:

"O’ you who believe! Fear Allah and be with the truthful”(Qur’an 9:119)

According to some Sunni Commentaries, "the truthful”means Imam ‘Ali (as):

Sunni reference:

• Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Hafidh Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, two reports: one from Ibn Mardawayh by Ibn Abbas and the second from Ibn Asakir by Abi Ja’far (as).

This means that people should have feared Allah and should not have separated from Imam ‘Ali (as) after the demise of Prophet (S). This unfortunately did not happen at large, and therefore, unfortunate divisions followed it.

With respect to the world al-Siddeeq -- "The Truthful", there are many Sunni narrations in which the Messenger of Allah said:

The Truthful are three: Hazqeel (who was) the believer of the family of Pharaoh (see Qur’an 40:28), and Habeeb al-Najjar (who was) the believer of the family of Yaasin (see Qur’an 36:20), and ‘Ali Ibn Abi Talib who is the most virtuous one among them (see Qur’an 9:119)."

Sunni references:

• Abu Nu’aym and Ibn Asakir, on the authority of Abu Layla

• Ibn al-Najjar, on the authority of Ibn Abbas

• al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 9, section 2, pp 192-193

In conclusion, we have shown in this article that the term Shi’a has been used in Qur’an for the followers of the great servants of Allah, and in the traditions of the Prophet for the followers of Imam ‘Ali (as). One who follows such divinely appointed Guide is safe from the disputes in the religion and has grasped the Strong Rope of Allah, and has been given the glad tiding of Paradise.

Side Comments
A Sunni brother wrote: Sunni means the one who follows the traditions (Sunnah) of the Prophet, and this is supported by the following verse of Qur’an:

Certainly you have in the Apostle of Allah an excellent exemplar (beautiful pattern of conduct) for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much. (Qur’an 33:21)

لَّقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِي رَسُولِ اللَّـهِ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِّمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّـهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَذَكَرَاللَّـهَ كَثِيرًا ﴿الأحزاب: ٢١﴾

My comment was as follows:

1)In the above verse neither the word "Sunnah”nor any of its derivative has been used. As I mentioned earlier, Allah has used the terminology of "Muslim”in its exact form, letter by letter, in the verse 22:78. Also Allah used the word "Shi’a”again in exact form in verse 37:83 for the Prophet Abraham. However, Allah never used the words such as "Sunni”or as "Ahlussunnah”for the followers of the Prophet (S).

2)If you say we do not find such exact terminology, but we understand that the Prophet is our pattern, then one may say that Qur’an testifies that Prophet Abraham (as) was a pattern for us as well:

"Indeed, there is for you an excellent exemplar (beautiful pattern of conduct) in Abraham...”(Qur’an 60:4)

قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ

Notice that in the above verse, the phrase which has been used for Prophet Abraham (as) is exactly the same as that of the previous quoted verse used for Prophet Muhammad (S). That is true for the following verse as well:

Certainly there is for you in them (Abraham and his followers) an excellent exemplar (beautiful pattern of conduct) for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised. (Qur’an 60:6)

لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِيهِمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِّمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّـهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّـهَ هُوَ الْغَنِيُّ الْحَمِيدُ ﴿الممتحنة: ٦﴾

Now please tell us if we can be called a Sunni because we follow Abraham’s traditions? Certainly Prophet Muhammad followed the tradition of Prophet Abraham, yet Muhammad (S) was never called Sunni, as that result. Similarly, Prophet Abraham followed the traditions of Prophet Noah, but he was never called a Sunni. Qur’an mentioned that he was a Shi’a of Noah.

3) The word "Sunnah”has used in Qur’an to refer to the custom of God and the way Allah conducts the affairs and the rules governing the universe (Sunnatullah). But here we are discussing the word Sunnah referred to the Prophet (S), and not the rules governing the universe. As such we are looking for the term such as "Sunnatu Rasoolillah".

4) A word XXXX can be used in two ways:

XXXXX by definition

or

XXXXX by label

All Muslims are Sunni by definition, but only a group of people, which are famous to this name, are Sunni by label. How they got such label needs to be investigated though.

Also, all Muslims are "obedient”by definition, but there is no special group among Muslims who are called "obedient". This shows that having a certain characteristic by definition does not force us to specify such characteristic in our label. In fact, in most cases (not all cases) the label is just a stereotype and does not reflect the real attributes of the holder of such label.

Sometime the label is used to allure people to specific version of something which is found in various versions, each of which is claimed to be genuine one, by different groups. As such, it wouldn’t be an intelligent practice, in general, to identify the genuineness of something with its label.

Surely, the followers of the Prophet are supposed to follow his Sunnah by definition. But were they called Sunni when Prophet Muhammad was alive? or even few years after his demise? In other words, the question to be answered is: When did the title "Ahlussunnah wal Jama’ah”come into existence in the history of Islam for a specific group of Muslims?

IT'S NOT ACTUALLY THE COPY AND PASTE THAT YOU'RE HESITANT AND AFRAID OF BUT ACTUALLY THE MATERIAL ITSELF. DO TELL ME HOW YOU FOUND THE RESPONSE AND PLEASE DO REFUTE IT IF YOU WISH TO. THAT IS YOUR RIGHT AND THAT IS WHAT BRINGS ABOUT A HEALTHY DISCUSSION.

[muslim720]

IT'S NOT ACTUALLY THE COPY AND PASTE THAT YOU'RE HESITANT AND AFRAID OF BUT ACTUALLY THE MATERIAL ITSELF. DO TELL ME HOW YOU FOUND THE RESPONSE AND PLEASE DO REFUTE IT IF YOU WISH TO. THAT IS YOUR RIGHT AND THAT IS WHAT BRINGS ABOUT A HEALTHY DISCUSSION.

Healthy discussion with a fraudulent person like yourself?  Despite furnishing proof against it, you have yet again latched on to the same weak narrations (already refuted) and added more weak ones to the list.

I shall gladly refute them your way.  Since you don't mind copy-paste as long as the material is confronted, here is what you need to account for. 

The Shias, according to your own books are:

(1) Bastards:

Yunus bin Dhibyaan, from Abu Abdullah Ja’far bin Muhammad [as] saying:

When Moses and Aaron [as] entered on Faroh, there were none among his advisors who was insane. If they were as such, they would have advised him to kill them both. So when they said: “Keep him and his brother in suspense (for a while) [26:36]”, they (actually) advised him with reconsideration and attentivness.  (The narrator) said: Abu Abdullah then placed his hand on his own chest and said: By Allah, such is our case too; no one comes to our support but he who is a bastard.

Shia Sources: al-Nu’man b. Muhammad al-Tameemy, Sharh al-Akhbaar vol.3, p. 8; Ali al-Tabarsi, Mishkaatul-Anwaar p.455; al-Majlisi, Bihaar al-Anwaar, vol.13, p.137; Muhammad b. Mas’oud al-Ayyashi, Tafseer al-Ayyashi, vol.2, p. 24; al-Fayd al-Kaashaani, Tafseer al-Saafi, vol.2, p. 225; al-Fayd al-Kaashaani, al-Tafseer al-Asfaa, vol. 1, p. 391; al-Huwaizy, Tafseer Noor al-Thaqalayn, vol. 2, p. 55)


(2) Hypocrites:

“Narrated Khalid bin Hammaad saying: narrated to me al-Hasan bin Talha (quoting) Muhammad bin Ismael, from Ali bin Yazeed al-Shaami saying: Abul-Hasan [as] said: Abu Abdullah [as] said: No verse revealed by Allah concerning hypocrites, but it perfectly fits those who are of Shi’a persuasion.”

[Reported by al-Majlisi, Bihaar al-Anwaar, vol. 65, p. 66; Rijaal al-Kash-shy, p. 254, Ali Akbar al-Ghifary, Studies in the Science of Dirayah, p. 155; Rijaal at-Tusi, vol.2, p. 589; Mu’jam Rijaal al-Kho’ei, vol.15, p.265]


“Narrated Muhammad saying: Narrated to us al-Hasan saying: Narrated to us Ibrahim saying: Ismael bin Aban al-Azdy informed us saying: Narrated to us Amr bin Shimr al-Ju’fy, from Jabir from Rafie’ bin Farqad al-Bajaliyy saying: I heard Ali bin Abi Talib [as] saying: See you not, O people of Kufah? By Allah I have stricken you with the stick that I hit the idiots with, but I don’t see you ceasing, and I have stricken you with the whips I use for penal codes, yet I don’t see you behaving. The only thing left is my sword, and I know what will straighten you up by will of Allah, but I don’t like to resort to that with you.  What’s amazing about you and the people of Syria, is that their leader disobeys Allah, yet they obey him, while your leader obeys Allah, but you disobey him. If I say to you go forth to meet your enemy, you say the cold prevents us. Do you think your enemy does not feel the cold you feel? But (the fact is) you resemble those people whom the Messenger [saw] said to them: “Go forth in the cause of Allah” and their leaders said: “Go not forth in the heat” and Allah said to His Prophet: “Say: The fire of Hell is fiercer in heat if only they can understand”

[Ibn Hilaal al-Thaqafi, al-Ghaaraat, p.27: see (Reference Here)]


(3) Filthiest people on the face of earth:

“Narrated to us Muhammad saying: Narrated to us al-Hasan saying: Narrated to us Ibrahim saying: – Also, narrated to us Ibrahim bin al-Mubarak from Bikr bin Issa saying: Narrated to us al-A’mash from Abdul-Malik bin Maysarah from ‘Amarah bin Omair saying: There was a friend of Ali [as] by the nick Abu Maryam, from the Madinah, whom upon hearing about the disbursement of people away from him, he came to him. When he [as] saw him, he said: (Is that you) Abu Maryam? He replied: yes.  He [as] said: What brought you up here? He said: I did not come to you for a need, but I actually think if you were put in charge of this Ummah, you would do good. He said: O Abu Maryam, I am whom you have known, but I was (unluckily) given the filthiest people on the face of earth; when I call on them, they don’t follow me, and when I go along with what they want, they disburse away from me”

[Ibid, p. 44]


(4) Liars Who Spit on Each Other’s Face:

“With that chain: from al-Wash-shaa’, from Ali bin al-Hasan, from Aban bin Taghlib saying: Abu Abdullah [as] said: How would you feel if the fight broke out between the two mosques, and knowledge withdrew back as the snake withdraw back to its hole, and the Shi’ites disunited (among themselves) and called each other liars, and spat on each other’s face? I said: May I be your ransom, there’s no good (to achieve) at that time. He said to me: All the good is then (and there) three times.”  [Reported by al-Kulainy, al-Kafi, vol. 1, p.340]


(5) Dishonest and of Bad Morals:

“From several of our Associates: from Sahl bin Ziyad and many others, from al-Hussain bin al-Hasan, all of them from Muhammad bin Awramah, from Muhammad bin Ali from Ismael bin Yasaar, from Othman bin Yousuf saying: I was informed by Abdullah bin Kaisaan from Abu Abdullah [as] saying:

I said to him: May I be your ransom, I am your servant Abdullah bin Kaisaan. He said: I know the linage, but I don’t know you. I said: I was born in the Mountain (area) and was raised in Persia. I got to deal with the people through doing business and other means. I (sometime) deal with a man and see that he enjoys a good appearance, good morals and abundant honesty. But when I investigate him, I find him to be of your enemies (A Sunni) . (On the other hand) I may deal with a man who has ill manners, dishonesty, and crookedness, and upon investigation, I find him to be of your supporters (A Shi’a) . How is that possible?

He said to me: O Ibn Kaisaan, Have you not known that Allah [swt] took a clay from paradise and a clay from hell and mixed them together and pulled this out of this, and that out of that? So whatever you may see of honesty, good morals and good appearance from those (Sunnis), is because of what have gotten into them from the clay of paradise, but eventually they go back to the clay they were made of. Likewise, whatever you may see of dishonesty, ill manners and crookedness from those (Shi’ites) is because of what have gotten to them from the clay of hell, but eventually the go back to the original (clay) they were made of.

[Reported by al-Kulainy, al-Kafi vol. 2, p. 4, al-Barqi, al-Mahaasin, vol. 1, p. 229]


(6) Filthy Mouthed & With Filthy Attitude:

“From him, from his father, from Abdullah bin al-Qaasim al-Hadhrami, from someone narrated to him the following saying:

I said to Abu Abdullah [as]: I may, on one hand, see a fellow man of our persuasion (Shi’a) with a filthy mouth, filthy attitude and of seldome honoring to appointments, which puts me into a great depression. On the other hand, I may see a man of our opponents (Sunni) with good appearance, good guidance, and who honors appointments, and that puts me into a great dipression.

He said: Do you know why is that? I said: No. He said: Allah has created both clays, He then rubbed them – and he placed both his hands (palms) one one another- then He splitted them and said: This (clay destined) to Paradise, and this (clay destined) to Hell and I do not care.

Therefore, the filth of mouth, profanity, bad attitude and dishonoring of appointments from your fellow man who is of your persuasion, is because of the traces caused by the filthy clay, but he (eventually) gets back to his (original) clay. As for the good guidance, good appearance, good attitude and honor of appointments from those opponents, is due to the traces caused by the (good) clay.

I said: you’ve relieved me, may Allah relieve you.”

[Reported by al-Barqi, al-Mahaasin, vol.1, p. 230, and by al-Majlisi, Bihaar al-Anwaar, vol. 5, p.251]


(7) Those Upon Whom Allah's Wrath Fell:

“Narrated Ali bin Ibrahim, from Muhammad bin Issa, from some of our associates, from Abul-Hasan Musa [as] saying:

Verily the Wrath of Allah befell on the Shi’ites, and He gave me the choice: Either myself or them, by Allah I shielded them by choosing myself.”

[Reported by al-Kulainy, al-Kafi, vol. 1, p.260]


( Shameless and Without Gheera:

“According to the narration of Ghiyaath bin Ibrahim, from Abu Abdullah [as], that Ali [as] said:

O People of Iraq, I was informed that your women date the men right on the streets, have you no shame? And he said: May Allah curse who has no jealousy.”

[Reported by al-Barqi, al-Mahaasin, vol.1, p.204-205; al-Majlisi, Bihaar al-Anwaar, vol. 79, p.115]



I will provide you the link for further reading because in the last bit, there are various narrations ascribed to the Imams (ra) which talk about characteristics that Shias do not have or things with which Shias aren't afflicted and one of them is being sodomized.  I wonder why the Imams (ra) took time to narrate that and exonerate Shias of being sodomized?  What sort of things were Shias involved in?

Happy reading: https://gift2shias.com/2009/11/04/qualities-of-the-shiites-as-reported-by-the-shiites/

PS - Just to show you the wonders of copy-pasting

[muslim720]

An example was Prophet Abraham who was mentioned in Qur’an specifically as the Shi’a of Noah:

"And most surely Abraham was among the Shi’a of him (i.e., Noah)”(Qur’an 37:83)

 وَإِنَّ مِن شِيعَتِهِ لَإِبْرَاهِيمَ ﴿الصافات: ٨٣﴾

(Notice that the word "Shi’a”is explicitly used, letter by letter, in the above verse as well as the following verse.)

Yes, Ibrahim (asws) was among the "shia" of Nuh (asws), however, your use of the word "shia", to describe yourself, has different connotations.  It does not fit this line of reasoning (Ibrahim to Nuh); rather you have created your own parallel religion and given yourself the label, "shia".  Ibrahim (asws) stayed in line with Nuh (asws), with his religion and message; you have come up with your own sect, set of standards, beliefs and practices.

In the light of the above explanation and the fact that we all follow the Prophet (saw), I want you to (once again) pay attention to what Allah (swt) said to the Prophet (saw): "As for those who divide Their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: Their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did."  Translation, the Prophet (saw) has no part "in them in the least".  Who is this "them"?  Those who split into sects and refer to themselves as "Shia".

Thus the Messenger of Allah (S) used to say the phrase of "Shi’a of ‘Ali". This phrase is not something invented later! Prophet Muhammad (S) said that the TRUE followers of imam ‘Ali will go to Paradise, and this is a great felicity. Also Jabir Ibn Abdillah al-Ansari narrated that:

The Messenger of Allah (S) said: "The Shi’a of ‘Ali are the real victorious in the day of resurrection/rising"

شيعة علي هم الفائزون يوم القيامة

Sunni references:

• al-Manaqib Ahmad, as mentioned in:

• Yanabi al-Mawaddah, by al-Qundoozi al-Hanafi, p62

• Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Hafidh Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, who quotes the tradition as follows: "We were with the Holy Prophet when ‘Ali came towards us. The Holy Prophet said: He and his Shi’a will aquire salvation on the day of judgment."

Two points:

1.  Re-read what I said regarding Imam Suyuti (rah) and "hatib al lail" (one who collects wood in the dark).

2.  Al-Qundoozi Al-Hanafi is not Sunni.  In fact, he came much much later than any of the classical scholars of hadith.
http://www.twelvershia.net/2016/09/24/al-qunduzi-al-hanafi-exposed/

The Messenger of Allah said: "O ‘Ali! On the Day of Judgment I shall resort to Allah and you will resort to me and your children will resort to you and the Shi’a will resort to them. Then you will see where they carry us. (i.e. to Paradise)"

Sunni reference: Rabi al-Abrar, by al-Zamakhshari

Again, Al-Zamakhshari is not Sunni but a Mu'tazilite.  Please inform Al-Islam.org, ShiaPen and the countless Shia pages on Facebook to update their information and take out Al-Qunduzi Al-Hanafi and Al-Zamakhshari from their list.  It is embarrassing to feign scholarship when Wikipedia is all it takes to know a man and his beliefs.  In fact, Wikipedia lists "Rabi al-Abrar" among his works, before you claim the article is referring to another Al-Zamakhshari.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Zamakhshari

The Messenger of Allah said: "O ‘Ali! (On the day of Judgment) you and your Shi’a will come toward Allah well-pleased and well-pleasing, and there will come to Him your enemies angry and stiff-necked (i.e., their head forced up).

Sunni references:

• al-Tabarani, on the authority of Imam ‘Ali

• al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p236

Al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah is "one of the most devastating polemics ever written against the Shiite doctrine of the imāma and in defence of the first three caliphs." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Sawa%27iq_al-Muhriqah)

Of course you did not know that!  Without having read the book, I can bet you that Ibn Hajar Al-Haythami (rah) was only quoting this fabricated hadith to refute it.  It is much like what I'm doing, at the moment; you make a fallacious claim and I quote you just to refute that point of yours.  I suggest you read Ibn Hajar Al-Haythami's (rah) entire take on this narration and not just quote what he quoted to refute.

By the way, "Al-Tabarani, on the authority of Imam Ali (ra)" is not a reference.

Ibn Abbas (ra) narrated:

When the verse "Those who believe and do righteous deeds are the best of the creation (Qur’an 98:7)”

was revealed, the Messenger of Allah (S) said to ‘Ali: "They are you and your Shi’a.”He continued: "O ‘Ali! (On the day of Judgment) you and your Shi’a will come toward Allah well-pleased and well-pleasing, and your enemies will come angry with their head forced up. ‘Ali said: "Who are my enemies?”The Prophet (S) replied: "He who disassociates himself from you and curses you. And glad tiding to those who reach first under the shadow of al-’Arsh on the day of resurrection.”‘Ali asked: "Who are they, O the Messenger of Allah?”He replied: "Your Shi’a, O ‘Ali, and those who love you."

Sunni references:

• al-Hafidh Jamaluddin al-Dharandi, on the authority of Ibn Abbas

• al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 11, section 1, pp 246-247

Again, Al-Sawa'iq Al-Muhriqah by Ibn Hajar is "one of the most devastating polemics ever written against the Shiite doctrine of the imāma and in defence of the first three caliphs."  See above for more details.

And "Al-Hafidh Jamaluddin Al-Dharandi, on the authority of Ibn Abbas (ra)" is not a reference.

Finally, any association of Qur'an 98:7 to Imam Ali (ra) and his Shias is a lie, much like this one:
http://www.sjiieten-ontmaskerd.nl/AhlelBayt.com/www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/hadith/shias-best-of-creation.html

Then Ibn Hajar provides a bizarre commentary for the first tradition, saying:

The Shi’a of ‘Ali are the Ahlussunnah since they are those who love Ahlul-Bayt as Allah and His Prophet ordered. But others (i.e., other than Sunnis) are the enemies of Ahlul-Bayt in reality for the love outside the boundary of law is the great enmity, and that was the reason for their fate. Also, the enemies of Ahlul-Bayt were al-Khawarij and their alike from Syria, not Muawiyah and other companions because they were Muteawweloon, and for them is a good reward, and for ‘Ali and his Shi’a is a good reward!

Sunni reference:

• al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 11, section 1, p236

For the third time, Al-Sawa'iq Al-Muhriqah by Ibn Hajar Al-Haythami (rah) is "one of the most devastating polemics ever written against the Shiite doctrine of the imāma and in defence of the first three caliphs."  Ibn Hajar Al-Haythami (rah) would quote Shia claims and then refute them, exactly as what I am doing (quoting your claims and then refuting them).

The Messenger of Allah said to ‘Ali: "The first four individuals who will enter the Paradise are me, you, al-Hasan, and al-Husayn, and our progeny will be behind us, and our wives will be behind our progeny, and our Shi’a will be on our right side and in our company."

Sunni references:

• al-Manaqib, by Ahmad

• al-Tabarani, as quoted in:

• al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami , Ch. 11, section 1, p246

Wow, again Al-Sawa'iq Al-Muhriqah by Ibn Hajar Al-Haythami (rah)!  Allahu Musta'an!!!

"Al-Tabarani, as quoted in" is not a reference and I'll speculate here.  The liars the authors of this article are, I hope they have not passed off "Manaqib Al-Imam Ali b. Abi Talib" by Ibn Shahr Ashub as "Manaqib Al-Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal".  Or their ignorance may have gotten the best of them; they may have confused "Manaqib Al-Imam Ali b. Abi Talib" with "Manaqib Al-Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal".  Anyways, you've quoted the name of the book without the page, etc.

However I did not locate the exact term of "Ahlussunnah wal-Jama’ah"

Because being from Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah isn't condemned, in the eyes of Allah (swt), as is being those who break up the religion and become "shia".

But by looking at the following tradition narrated by Umm Salama who said:

The Messenger of Allah said: "‘Ali is with Qur’an, and Qur’an is with ‘Ali. They shall not separate from each other till they both return to me by the Pool (of Paradise)."

Sunni references:

• al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p124 on the authority of Umm Salama

• al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 9, section 2, pp 191,194

• al-Awsat, by al-Tabarani; also in al-Saghir

• Tarikh al-Khulafa, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, p173

WEAK!  https://gift2shias.com/2010/07/15/hadith-ali-with-quran-and-quran-with-ali/

This isn't fun anymore. 

Then we can conclude that Imam ‘Ali is “the Qur’an verbatim “. That is, Imam ‘Ali is the Strong Rope of Allah also, because they (Qur’an and ‘Ali) are non-separable.

Foundation built upon weak hadith and anything with weak foundation is bound to collapse (just like how your entire post has).

In another verse, Allah said:

"You are the best nation (Ummah) that has been raised up for the (benefit of) people. You enjoin the good and forbid the evil...”(Qur’an 3:110).

The best nation is also the Ahlul-Bayt. Let us remember that according to Qur’an, "nation”does not mean the whole people.

Let us also remember that the same Qur'an mentions "ahlul bayt" thrice and each time in reference to a prophet's (peace and blessings be upon them) wife or wives.  Not daughter, not son-in-law, not grandchildren; WIVES!!!

Thus, one single individual can be a nation in the language of Qur’an. As for the Verse 3:100, it is interesting to note that some Sunni scholars have narrated from Abu Ja’far (Imam Baqir (as)) that:

Abu Ja’far (as) said about the verse ‘You are the best nation raised up for the (benefit of) people...(3:110)’: "The Members of the House of the Prophet."

Sunni references:

• Ibn Abi Hatam, as mentioned in:

• al-Durr al-Manthoor, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti under commentary of verse 3:110 of holy Qur’an.

"Ibn Abi Hatam, as mentioned in" is not a reference and Imam Suyuti (rah), as said about 5 times before, was "hatib ul lail" (one who collects wood at night, meaning, he would narrate just about anything).

Also Allah mentioned in Qur’an:

"O’ you who believe! Fear Allah and be with the truthful”(Qur’an 9:119)

According to some Sunni Commentaries, "the truthful”means Imam ‘Ali (as):

Sunni reference:

• Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Hafidh Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, two reports: one from Ibn Mardawayh by Ibn Abbas and the second from Ibn Asakir by Abi Ja’far (as).

Again, Imam Suyuti (rah).  HATIB. UL. LAIL!!!!!!!  You have to prove the authenticity of the narration because its inclusion by Imam Suyuti (rah) does not ensure its authenticity.

In conclusion, we have shown in this article...

...that we (the Shias) cannot differentiate between weak and authentic hadiths.  Furthermore, we (the Shias) are so unacademic, perhaps dishonest would be more appropriate, that we quote from a book that is "one of the most devastating polemics ever written against the Shiite doctrine of the imāma and in defence of the first three caliphs" to substantiate our (Shia) beliefs.  Also, we (the Shias) do not know the difference between classical scholar of hadiths and historians and while it needs no mention, none of what we (the Shias) believe can be proved from the Qur'an and authentic Sunnah.

Side Comments

No need; I think you've had enough, lol!

[iceman]

Ma dear brother Muslim 720 you haven't challenged or refuted, you haven't even tried to discuss and debate any bit or part of my post. It's not about copy and paste or providing links, which you all do, but about the material that is presented.

But not to worry, I'm not a coward or weak. I will address fully the material you have put forward which you couldn't do.

[muslim720]

Ma dear brother Muslim 720 you haven't challenged or refuted, you haven't even tried to discuss and debate any bit or part of my post.

At this juncture, I am not sure if you need to consult an optometrist or a psychiatrist.

It's not about copy and paste or providing links, which you all do, but about the material that is presented.

All your points have been refuted.  Ittaqullah!  I mean, you tried to pass off a non-Sunni (Al-Qunduzi Al-Hanafi) and a Mu'tazili (Al-Zamakhshari) as Sunnis.  To expound on your ignorance, you repeatedly cited "Al-Sawa'iq Al-Muhriqah" which is "one of the most devastating polemics ever written against the Shiite doctrine of the imāma and in defence of the first three caliphs" to support Shia beliefs.  The equivalent (of this) would be someone referencing "Peshawar Nights", for its containment of one or more Sunni hadiths, in order to prove that (the unknown) Shirazi held pro-Sunni beliefs.  Sounds ridiculous, right?  Well, that is what you've done.  And we are not even laughing so that you have a chance to redeem yourself.

But not to worry, I'm not a coward or weak. I will address fully the material you have put forward which you couldn't do.

I critiqued your material.  I offered suggestion to avoid future embarrassment (by asking you to notify ShiaPen, Al-Islam.org and others to make amends to the article) and not even a thank you!  Indeed you're very weak.  You cannot even admit your own (more like, Al-Islam.org's and ShiaPen's) blunder.

[iceman]

Muslim 720, I'm at work at the moment. Will give you a detailed and in depth as usual tonight. By the way you're all over the place.

[iceman]

Muslim 720, I'm not going to say that I'm going to expose your lie since I don't speak as such, but what I'm going to say is that I will clear your misunderstanding and the misconception you have and made.

The narations/hadith which you have said is weak and rejected by all the Sunni Scholars is not true. And I will clear this to start off with.