Imamah: usul al-din or usul al-mathab?

[muslim720]

Oh yes there is. Yes we do proudly call ourselves Shia because calling yourself Shia 'meaning follower' isn't a crime. It depends on who's Shia you are.

It also depends on whether you have broken away from the Muslims and formed your own parallel religion.  Since you have, you'll have to answer to Allah (swt) for Surah Al-An'am verse 159.  Best of luck!

[iceman]

It also depends on whether you have broken away from the Muslims and formed your own parallel religion.  Since you have, you'll have to answer to Allah (swt) for Surah Al-An'am verse 159.  Best of luck!

Why are you so afraid to comment and address all of my points. Why do you just pick and choose what suits you from my post, comment on them and shy away from the rest? We haven't broken away from the Muslims and formed our own parallel religion. If you think we have then what exactly are you doing in Shia Mosques with your so called experience? What are you exactly experimenting on? Notice what you have accused us of 'You have broken away from the Muslims and formed your own parallel religion' an accusation from you with no backing what so ever.

We are speaking and discussing Surah Al Anam, verse 159, but where does it exactly say that Allah is speaking to Muhammad [pbuh] about a particular sect, a specific group? You refused to comment and discuss this, WHY? Because I have just exposed your lie and unveiled your propaganda. I have revealed your true intentions. If I can answer you and absolutely and completely corner and silence you then I have nothing to worry about. I will continue this. You can run but you can't hide.

[muslim720]

Why are you so afraid to comment and address all of my points.

I will do anything to get to the point without giving you opportunities to start the interview process again.  We present you evidence and you want to know what it means, in our opinion, lol.

Why do you just pick and choose what suits you from my post, comment on them and shy away from the rest?

I stay relevant to the discussion.  I didn't sign up for an interview so I keep you in line.

If you think we have then what exactly are you doing in Shia Mosques with your so called experience?

It keeps my conscience clear.  I can say to Allah (swt) that no matter the arguments with Iceman and disagreements with the brothers at their mosques, I still considered them Muslims.

Notice what you have accused us of 'You have broken away from the Muslims and formed your own parallel religion' an accusation from you with no backing what so ever.

How much more evidence do you need from me?  You have not been reading my posts, I reckon.  For starters, your name indicates having branched off.  Yes, there was Shian-e-Muawiyah like Shian-e-Ali but the former dissolved whether it be during the "year of jama'ah" or whenever.  The latter group, though seriously morphed in beliefs, still exists with a religion in stark contrast to mainstream Islam.

[iceman]

I will do anything to get to the point without giving you opportunities to start the interview process again.  We present you evidence and you want to know what it means, in our opinion, lol.

I stay relevant to the discussion.  I didn't sign up for an interview so I keep you in line.

It keeps my conscience clear.  I can say to Allah (swt) that no matter the arguments with Iceman and disagreements with the brothers at their mosques, I still considered them Muslims.

How much more evidence do you need from me?  You have not been reading my posts, I reckon.  For starters, your name indicates having branched off.  Yes, there was Shian-e-Muawiyah like Shian-e-Ali but the former dissolved whether it be during the "year of jama'ah" or whenever.  The latter group, though seriously morphed in beliefs, still exists with a religion in stark contrast to mainstream Islam.

Still dodging by ducking and diving, still playing hide and seek. Are we Muslims or not? Did we create a parallel religion or not? If we did and have then how come we're still Muslims? You haven't addressed the matter with me.

Surah Al Anam verse 159, how is this related to Shiaism? Where or what word means and represents Shia? Is Allah really and actually speaking about a particular group/specific sect? If yes then how?

[muslim720]

Still dodging by ducking and diving, still playing hide and seek.

You must have watched DodgeBall: A True Underdog Story many times.

Are we Muslims or not? Did we create a parallel religion or not?

Yes, to both.

If we did and have then how come we're still Muslims?

You are Muslim so long as you uphold the Shahadatain without violating any of the core beliefs of Islam.  In your case, you have added beliefs that have no basis in Qur'an and Sunnah, like the 3rd Shahada and Imamah.  Then again, you meet the basic criteria of being a Muslim.

Surah Al Anam verse 159, how is this related to Shiaism?

You like to play naive but it is okay; it is related to Shiaism because Shias became a splinter group.

Where or what word means and represents Shia?

'Inna Al-Ladhīna Farraqū Dīnahum Wa Kānū Shiya`āan Lasta Minhum Fī Shay'in ۚ 'Innamā 'Amruhum 'Ilá Allāhi Thumma Yunabbi'uhum Bimā Kānū Yaf`alūna

Quite idiotic to ask questions without studying the evidence presented to you, right?

Is Allah really and actually speaking about a particular group/specific sect? If yes then how?

The verse says, "As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects (Shiya), thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with God: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did".

Insha'Allah, someday Allah (swt) will answer that question for you.

[iceman]

You must have watched DodgeBall: A True Underdog Story many times.

Yes, to both.

You are Muslim so long as you uphold the Shahadatain without violating any of the core beliefs of Islam.  In your case, you have added beliefs that have no basis in Qur'an and Sunnah, like the 3rd Shahada and Imamah.  Then again, you meet the basic criteria of being a Muslim.

You like to play naive but it is okay; it is related to Shiaism because Shias became a splinter group.

'Inna Al-Ladhīna Farraqū Dīnahum Wa Kānū Shiya`āan Lasta Minhum Fī Shay'in ۚ 'Innamā 'Amruhum 'Ilá Allāhi Thumma Yunabbi'uhum Bimā Kānū Yaf`alūna

Quite idiotic to ask questions without studying the evidence presented to you, right?

The verse says, "As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects (Shiya), thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with God: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did".

Insha'Allah, someday Allah (swt) will answer that question for you.

I haven't watched DODGE BALL but I've seen you dodging from one place to the other.

You said, "Yes to both" ok. So you see us as Muslims to begin with, then you accuse us of creating a parallel religion, so do we remain as Muslims? Come on, no more ducking and diving, EXPLAIN YOURSELF.

You say;

"In your case, you have added beliefs that have no basis in Qur'an and Sunnah, like the 3rd Shahada and Imamah."

Once you've explained yourself, if you ever come around to doing it, then I will take you up on this.

First you say;

"You are Muslim so long as you uphold the Shahadatain without violating any of the core beliefs of Islam"

Then you say;

"In your case, you have added beliefs that have no basis in Qur'an and Sunnah, like the 3rd Shahada and Imamah"

And you say;

"Then again, you meet the basic criteria of being a Muslim"

Ma brother you are all over the place. So are we Muslims or not? Or do we remain Muslims after this;

"In your case you have added beliefs that have no basis in Qur'an and Sunnah, like the third Shahada and Imamah"

Do you still see us as Muslims after this? Will I get a positive response from you or are you still going to play hide and seek?

[muslim720]

Ma brother you are all over the place. So are we Muslims or not? Or do we remain Muslims after this;

This has been my view:

[iceman]

This has been my view:

What's the matter, you can't speak for yourself? You put forward videos and or links rather than engaging yourself but you object to material put forward in the form of copy and paste? I'd like to hear it straight from the horse's mouth.

[muslim720]

What's the matter, you can't speak for yourself?

I can; I just don't like to be interviewed by anyone especially you, lol.

You put forward videos and or links rather than engaging yourself

....because my belief, that you're a heavily misguided Muslim won't change.  It is not up for discussion just like your habit of cursing early Muslims is non-negotiable.

but you object to material put forward in the form of copy and paste?

It is because your copy-paste (mostly) backfires against you.  Without confirming, you paste articles which portray a Mu'tazili as Sunni, quote from books that are anti-Shia to support your beliefs, so on and so forth.

[iceman]

I can; I just don't like to be interviewed by anyone especially you, lol.

....because my belief, that you're a heavily misguided Muslim won't change.  It is not up for discussion just like your habit of cursing early Muslims is non-negotiable.

It is because your copy-paste (mostly) backfires against you.  Without confirming, you paste articles which portray a Mu'tazili as Sunni, quote from books that are anti-Shia to support your beliefs, so on and so forth.

You can't. Because if you could you wouldn't be using the INTERVIEW excuse.

You said;

"because my belief, that you're a heavily misguided Muslim won't change."

There you go, you've said it yourself. Spot on and thank you for being honest. You have a mindset which you're not willing to give up.

You further say;

"just like your habit of cursing early Muslims is non-negotiable."

Every time you post you come up with a new accusation or something irrelevant to the thread or what's being discussed. Nice technique to keep yourself floating. Since when did I say it was my habit?

And a response to your last bit, material according to logic and reasoning based on references from the Qur'an, be it link or copy and paste, is a totally different matter that you're running from.

[muslim720]

There you go, you've said it yourself. Spot on and thank you for being honest. You have a mindset which you're not willing to give up.

Were you under the impression that I considered Shias to not be misguided?  If that was the case, I'd have been a Shia.  However, my conditions are very simple.  Between the two of us, you give up cursing and speaking ill of our revered personalities, I will not consider you misguided despite the fact that you ascribe a doomed ending for me in the Hereafter for rejecting Imamah.

And a response to your last bit, material according to logic and reasoning based on references from the Qur'an, be it link or copy and paste, is a totally different matter that you're running from.

Nah, what you're running from is my refutation of your copy-paste from ShiaPen.  Let it be a lesson; make sure what is referenced is not an anti-Shia book so that quoting it doesn't make you look stupid.  Also, ensure that the people labeled as "Sunnis" are actually Sunnis, not Mu'tazilis or something else.

[iceman]

Were you under the impression that I considered Shias to not be misguided?  If that was the case, I'd have been a Shia.  However, my conditions are very simple.  Between the two of us, you give up cursing and speaking ill of our revered personalities, I will not consider you misguided despite the fact that you ascribe a doomed ending for me in the Hereafter for rejecting Imamah.

Nah, what you're running from is my refutation of your copy-paste from ShiaPen.  Let it be a lesson; make sure what is referenced is not an anti-Shia book so that quoting it doesn't make you look stupid.  Also, ensure that the people labeled as "Sunnis" are actually Sunnis, not Mu'tazilis or something else.

"Between the two of us, you give up cursing and speaking ill of our revered personalities"

Since you've put this between the two of us, when can you recall me cursing or speaking I'll? And who are your revered personalities and why does your religion evolve around these handful personalities? Is Ali also from and amongst your revered personalities?

"despite the fact that you ascribe a doomed ending for me in the Hereafter for rejecting Imamah"

When did I say that? So what are Mu'tazilis  then? What do you consider them as, ALIENS

[muslim720]

Since you've put this between the two of us, when can you recall me cursing or speaking I'll?

It is not a secret that your madhhab encourages cursing the "enemies of Ahlul Bayt (ra)" and we know who you make out to be the "enemies of Ahlul Bayt (ra)".  Whether you do it by name or group, the individuals you consider to be "enemies of Ahlul Bayt (ra)" do not change nor does the fact that cursing them is a built-in facet of your madhhab.

....and why does your religion evolve around these handful personalities?

That question is best aimed at yourself.

Is Ali also from and amongst your revered personalities?

Yes and so are Imam Hassan (ra), his children, Imam Hussain (ra) and all of his children. 

When did I say that?

What do you consider those who reject Imamah?

[zaid_ibn_ali]

"Between the two of us, you give up cursing and speaking ill of our revered personalities"

Since you've put this between the two of us, when can you recall me cursing or speaking I'll? And who are your revered personalities and why does your religion evolve around these handful personalities? Is Ali also from and amongst your revered personalities?

"despite the fact that you ascribe a doomed ending for me in the Hereafter for rejecting Imamah"

When did I say that? So what are Mu'tazilis  then? What do you consider them as, ALIENS

Lol
The irony.
Your religion is based on several personalities where as ours isn’t. Open up our books of hadith & see how many hadiths are from Abu bakr compared to Ali for instance!
Our shahada does not mention any sahaba. We do not regard any sahaba to be infallible & acknowledge that they were human & made mistakes.
Can you name me any mistake that Ali or any of the 12 Imams made in your view?

Who is personality worshipping? The shia, your name is based on a personality i.e Ali. Go look up what shia means. What ithna ashari means.

[iceman]

It is not a secret that your madhhab encourages cursing the "enemies of Ahlul Bayt (ra)" and we know who you make out to be the "enemies of Ahlul Bayt (ra)".  Whether you do it by name or group, the individuals you consider to be "enemies of Ahlul Bayt (ra)" do not change nor does the fact that cursing them is a built-in facet of your madhhab.

That question is best aimed at yourself.

Yes and so are Imam Hassan (ra), his children, Imam Hussain (ra) and all of his children. 
 

What do you consider those who reject Imamah?

"It is not a secret that your madhhab encourages cursing the "enemies of Ahlul Bayt (ra)" and we know who you make out to be the "enemies of Ahlul Bayt (ra)".  Whether you do it by name or group, the individuals you consider to be "enemies of Ahlul Bayt (ra)" do not change nor does the fact that cursing them is a built-in facet of your madhhab."

This is very interesting. So what's wrong with cursing the enemies of Ahlul Bayth? Do you have a problem with that? Do you even know who the Ahlul Bayth are? I'm sure you do, the Holy household of your beloved Messenger (pbuh) as well as ours. Are you trying to tell me that your revered personalities are actually the enemies of Ahlul Bayth? Or you hold and see the enemies of Ahlul Bayt as your revered personalities?

"What do you consider those who reject Imamah?"

As MUSLIMS, just as myself.

[iceman]

Lol
The irony.
Your religion is based on several personalities where as ours isn’t. Open up our books of hadith & see how many hadiths are from Abu bakr compared to Ali for instance!
Our shahada does not mention any sahaba. We do not regard any sahaba to be infallible & acknowledge that they were human & made mistakes.
Can you name me any mistake that Ali or any of the 12 Imams made in your view?

Who is personality worshipping? The shia, your name is based on a personality i.e Ali. Go look up what shia means. What ithna ashari means.

Our religion is based on Qur'an and Sunnah and our third Shahada is based on and according to the Qur'an. You on the other hand as a Sunni came into existence during the time of our sixth Imam. Before this you were not to be seen or heard.

You talk about hadiths, why didn't the Caliphs, these loyal Sahabas gather hadiths? Don't you think if they did it then we all would have had first hand experience to hadiths rather than leaving it to Imam Bukhari and Muslim to do it after such a long and lengthy gap and time.

No wonder we have ifs and buts, strong and weak, acceptable and what not, looking at the chain of narrations when it comes to hadiths. Thanks to these so called beloved Sahâbah and so loyal to the Prophet (pbuh) who didn't even bother with collection of hadiths since they were so hungry and eager to get into authority and gain power.

What happened with collecting hadiths? Why did they refuse to do it? I've looked up what Shia means and have given a complete break down. And the Qur'an speaks about Shias and gives best examples of them. Does the Qur'an speak about Sunnis? Is this word anywhere to be seen or even heard in the Qur'an? Absolutely not.

[muslim720]

This is very interesting.

Now it has turned desperate; your attempt to diverge from the discussion and posing idiotic questions.  Maybe you and Link have some common link.

So what's wrong with cursing the enemies of Ahlul Bayth?

For one, it shows bad manners.  Two, it gets worse when you dissect Ahlul Bayt (ra) and hold on to a selected, exclusive few.  Third, it reaches the pinnacle of stupidity when you curse the descendants and blood relatives of your own "infallibles" (ra).

Do you have a problem with that?

Not in the past, but now-a-days I have a serious problem with your understanding of Ahlul Bayt (ra).  Leaving out the children of Imam Hassan (ra), possibly targeting them too, and certain children of Imam Hussain (ra) as well.

Do you even know who the Ahlul Bayth are?

I do and maybe it is time for you to know them too.  Here is a quick bit to shatter your understanding of them.  Imam Ali (ra) is said to have write in Letter 9 of Nahjul Balagha: "The way with the Prophet (may Allah bless him and his descendants) was that when fighting became fierce and people began to loose ground he would send forward members of his family and through them protect his companions from the attacks of swords and spears.  In this way `Ubaydah ibn al-Harith was killed on the day of Badr, Hamzah (ibn `Abd al-Muttalib) on the day of Uhud and Ja'far (ibn Abi Talib) on the day of Mu'tah." 

وَكَانَ رَسُولُ اللهِ(صلى الله عليه وآله) إذَا احْمَرَّ الْبَأْسُ، وَأَحْجَمَ النَّاسُ، قَدَّمَ أَهْلَ بَيْتِهِ فَوَقَى بِهِمْ أَصَحَابَهُ حَرَّ السُّيُوفِ وَالاْسِنَّةِ، فَقُتِلَ عُبَيْدَةُ بْنُ الْحَارِثِ يَوْمَ بَدْر، وَقُتِلَ حَمْزَةُ يَوْمَ أُحُد، وَقُتِلَ جعفر يَوْمَ مُؤْتَةَ

Taken from: https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-9-muawiyah

Do you take Ubaydah ibn Al-Harith, Hamza ibn 'Abd Al-Muttalib and Ja'far ibn Abi Talib - may Allah be pleased with them - as Ahlul Bayt (ra)?

Are you trying to tell me that your revered personalities are actually the enemies of Ahlul Bayth?

No, I am saying one must be an idiot to see upright Muslims, from day one of Islam till this day, as enemies of Ahlul Bayt (ra).

As MUSLIMS, just as myself.

Maybe you can tone down the taqiyyah a bit, my brother.  We know what your school considers us; I consider you a Muslim but misguided for the reason cited in the video I shared.

[iceman]

Now it has turned desperate; your attempt to diverge from the discussion and posing idiotic questions.  Maybe you and Link have some common link.

For one, it shows bad manners.  Two, it gets worse when you dissect Ahlul Bayt (ra) and hold on to a selected, exclusive few.  Third, it reaches the pinnacle of stupidity when you curse the descendants and blood relatives of your own "infallibles" (ra).

Not in the past, but now-a-days I have a serious problem with your understanding of Ahlul Bayt (ra).  Leaving out the children of Imam Hassan (ra), possibly targeting them too, and certain children of Imam Hussain (ra) as well.

I do and maybe it is time for you to know them too.  Here is a quick bit to shatter your understanding of them.  Imam Ali (ra) is said to have write in Letter 9 of Nahjul Balagha: "The way with the Prophet (may Allah bless him and his descendants) was that when fighting became fierce and people began to loose ground he would send forward members of his family and through them protect his companions from the attacks of swords and spears.  In this way `Ubaydah ibn al-Harith was killed on the day of Badr, Hamzah (ibn `Abd al-Muttalib) on the day of Uhud and Ja'far (ibn Abi Talib) on the day of Mu'tah." 

وَكَانَ رَسُولُ اللهِ(صلى الله عليه وآله) إذَا احْمَرَّ الْبَأْسُ، وَأَحْجَمَ النَّاسُ، قَدَّمَ أَهْلَ بَيْتِهِ فَوَقَى بِهِمْ أَصَحَابَهُ حَرَّ السُّيُوفِ وَالاْسِنَّةِ، فَقُتِلَ عُبَيْدَةُ بْنُ الْحَارِثِ يَوْمَ بَدْر، وَقُتِلَ حَمْزَةُ يَوْمَ أُحُد، وَقُتِلَ جعفر يَوْمَ مُؤْتَةَ

Taken from: https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-9-muawiyah

Do you take Ubaydah ibn Al-Harith, Hamza ibn 'Abd Al-Muttalib and Ja'far ibn Abi Talib - may Allah be pleased with them - as Ahlul Bayt (ra)?

No, I am saying one must be an idiot to see upright Muslims, from day one of Islam till this day, as enemies of Ahlul Bayt (ra).

Maybe you can tone down the taqiyyah a bit, my brother.  We know what your school considers us; I consider you a Muslim but misguided for the reason cited in the video I shared.

"Now it has turned desperate; your attempt to diverge from the discussion and posing idiotic questions.  Maybe you and Link have some common link."

I absolutely agree. On your behalf it always has been desperate. Not my attempt to diverge but it always has been your tactic from the beginning. Take a look at each and every one of your post. Forget about the others look at your most recent and fresh post, the one I'm replying to now. The following question you've asked,

"Do you take Ubaydah ibn Al-Harith, Hamza ibn 'Abd Al-Muttalib and Ja'far ibn Abi Talib - may Allah be pleased with them - as Ahlul Bayt (ra)?"

What has the above got to do with the thread and what we're discussing?

Take a look at your posts just as this one, you've always brought in and made  irrelevant and off topic questions, comments and points. And you have the NERVE to accuse me.

"Maybe you can tone down the taqiyyah a bit, my brother.  We know what your school considers us"

You asked me a question and I gave you a straight forward answer and all you can do is accuse me of TAQIYYAH.

What exactly does my school of thought consider you?

"I consider you a Muslim but misguided for the reason cited in the video I shared."

Start to discuss this with me one point by one from the video if you ever do build up the courage to do so. I personally don't think you will. I've seen plenty of your kind, accuse, abuse and then when put on the spot and questioned over it then, run for it.

[muslim720]

Not my attempt to diverge but it always has been your tactic from the beginning. Take a look at each and every one of your post.

I stopped taking you seriously when you offered almost nothing substantial to my refutation of your copy-paste article found on Al-Islam.org and ShiaPen.

What has the above got to do with the thread and what we're discussing?

Following the Shia-mandated method of debating, you posed a question as your response which I will bring back to your attention.  You asked, "Do you even know who the Ahlul Bayth are?" 

Now, do you consider Ubaydah, Hamza and Ja'far (may Allah be pleased with them) Ahlul Bayt (ra)?

You asked me a question and I gave you a straight forward answer and all you can do is accuse me of TAQIYYAH.

That is because your answer goes against what your madhhab says about those who deny Imamah.

What exactly does my school of thought consider you?

Ja`far from Humayd from Jabir.  He said: Abu Ja`far said: The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: The abandoners of the wilayah of `Ali, whoever of them died while upon that, are outside of Islam.

Imam Al-Saduk says, “Our belief is that the one who rejects the Imamah of Ameeral Mumineen [Ali] and the Aimmah (Imams) after him, has the same position like the one who rejects the Prophethood of the Prophets.”

Start to discuss this with me one point by one from the video if you ever do build up the courage to do so.

Save the pep talk for the one who is hiding and needs courage to come out and undertake his responsibilities.

[iceman]

I stopped taking you seriously when you offered almost nothing substantial to my refutation of your copy-paste article found on Al-Islam.org and ShiaPen.

Following the Shia-mandated method of debating, you posed a question as your response which I will bring back to your attention.  You asked, "Do you even know who the Ahlul Bayth are?" 

Now, do you consider Ubaydah, Hamza and Ja'far (may Allah be pleased with them) Ahlul Bayt (ra)?

That is because your answer goes against what your madhhab says about those who deny Imamah.

Ja`far from Humayd from Jabir.  He said: Abu Ja`far said: The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: The abandoners of the wilayah of `Ali, whoever of them died while upon that, are outside of Islam.

Imam Al-Saduk says, “Our belief is that the one who rejects the Imamah of Ameeral Mumineen [Ali] and the Aimmah (Imams) after him, has the same position like the one who rejects the Prophethood of the Prophets.”

Save the pep talk for the one who is hiding and needs courage to come out and undertake his responsibilities.

"I stopped taking you seriously when you offered almost nothing substantial to my refutation of your copy-paste article found on Al-Islam.org and ShiaPen."

I've always addressed every  comment and point you've made and answered all your questions. I've always given you an in depth analysis and a complete break down. You still wish to close your eyes and play arrogant then that's down to you. A weak person like you will never take anyone seriously, since you don't see anything seriously. Everything is a game or joke for you.

"Now, do you consider Ubaydah, Hamza and Ja'far (may Allah be pleased with them) Ahlul Bayt (ra)?"

Your answer, absolutely. Everyone who is related closely to the Prophet (pbuh) is a member of his household and family.

Don't ever come up with the usual and constant crap that I don't address your points or answer your questions. You don't address or answer mine but only what you pick and choose.

"That is because your answer goes against what your madhhab says about those who deny Imamah."

And you seem to know my madhhab better than me? Honestly you can't be taken seriously.

"Ja`far from Humayd from Jabir.  He said: Abu Ja`far said: The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: The abandoners of the wilayah of `Ali, whoever of them died while upon that, are outside of Islam.

Imam Al-Saduk says, “Our belief is that the one who rejects the Imamah of Ameeral Mumineen [Ali] and the Aimmah (Imams) after him, has the same position like the one who rejects the Prophethood of the Prophets"

There is a difference in thought, opinion and point of view in every madhhab.Scholars differ in thought, opinion and point of view so stop cherry picking what suits your agenda and try to labelling it on the entire community.

Stop messing about and start acting and behaving seriously.