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Masked Ghuluw of today's Rafidah

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Hani

Masked Ghuluw of today's Rafidah
« on: March 05, 2015, 06:37:10 PM »
al-Salamu `Aleykum,


We all know the Imams of Ahlul-Bayt whether from al-Hasan or al-Husayn's progeny had to deal with the extremism and ignorance of the Ghulaat who attributed ridiculous powers and abilities to Ahlul-Bayt.


Shia books are filled with narrations of how the Imams revive the dead, how they provide the blessings and livelihood of people, how they control the skies and the weather etc...


Today's Shia hold a LOT from the beliefs of the Ghulaat but claim to not be from the Ghulaat.


How?


They give it a "religious mask", for example they will claim that the Imam can hear our call wherever we are, you ask them HOW!? Isn't This Ghuluw!? They'll be like: "No no, this is only through Allah's permission."


They will claim that the Imams know the future and they know the unseen and all that shall befall them, you ask them HOW!? Isn't This Ghuluw!? They'll be like: "No no, this is only through Allah's permission."

In this clip below their renowned major scholar Kamal al-Haydari critisizes this Shia mentality and accuses the Shia of our days of being "Masked Ghulaat":
http://youtu.be/fuKTZvjMkp4?t=1m2s
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ameen

Re: Masked Ghuluw of today's Rafidah
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2015, 07:17:07 PM »
This is not a valid point and has been mentioned and discussed before. You put such matter forward as though it is impossible for a human being to have such authority and power.

I don't know why you still believe that this is impossibe when the story of King Soloman (as) and the throne of queen Bilqees is right infront of you.

Let me repeat again that a being from the genies stepped forward and claimed to bring the throne to king Soloman (as) at such miraculous speed. And a being from the humans stped forward that he could do even better. He could bring the throne quicker than the blink of an eye.

Now if this wasn't mentioned in the Quran then it would be obvious that you would be jumping up and down. But there you have it. Beings have been given such authority and powers in the past.

Do ask but don't make it sound as though it is impossible, what has been attributed to the Prophet's (pbuh) progeny.

You either don't understand their status or you don't want to because that puts them well above the rest and this is what the problem is. This is what some people don't like.













Hani

Re: Masked Ghuluw of today's Rafidah
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2015, 07:44:45 PM »
Sulayman (as) is a Prophet and his story is mentioned in Allah's book as one of his miracles.

Is a scholar called Ja`far from banu Hashim also capable of having these powers while it isn't mentioned in Allah's book nor is he a Prophet?

I reject this and consider it some form of Ghuluw some of his followers attributed to him.

If you think it is established, bring forth Qur'anic evidence or at least evidence from the Sunnah that Ja`far does possess such powers. Otherwise, what's to stop Ahlul-Sunnah from claiming that Abu Bakr or `Uthman can move mountains and make the rain fall "by Allah's permission."

In other words, whatever is established in the religion of Allah we accept, whatever isn't is Ghuluw.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

MuslimK

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Re: Masked Ghuluw of today's Rafidah
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2015, 08:30:16 PM »

Let me repeat again that a being from the genies stepped forward and claimed to bring the throne to king Soloman (as) at such miraculous speed. And a being from the humans stped forward that he could do even better. He could bring the throne quicker than the blink of an eye.

Now if this wasn't mentioned in the Quran then it would be obvious that you would be jumping up and down. But there you have it. Beings have been given such authority and powers in the past.

Ameen admits that Sunnis follow the Quran and believe the story of Sulaiman (ra) because it is mentioned in the book of Allah and strongly reject anything that has no basis in the Quran like Shia fabrications and Ghulu attributed to Ahlulbayt.
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Rationalist

Re: Masked Ghuluw of today's Rafidah
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2015, 02:39:04 AM »
Sulayman (as) is a Prophet and his story is mentioned in Allah's book as one of his miracles.

Is a scholar called Ja`far from banu Hashim also capable of having these powers while it isn't mentioned in Allah's book nor is he a Prophet?

I reject this and consider it some form of Ghuluw some of his followers attributed to him.

If you think it is established, bring forth Qur'anic evidence or at least evidence from the Sunnah that Ja`far does possess such powers. Otherwise, what's to stop Ahlul-Sunnah from claiming that Abu Bakr or `Uthman can move mountains and make the rain fall "by Allah's permission."

In other words, whatever is established in the religion of Allah we accept, whatever isn't is Ghuluw.

Ameen seems to think there is no difference between  the era of when Prophets lived when Wahi was present and today's time. Then at the same time he believes the Imams had these powers, but had to do taqiyyah. Even according to them, Imam Ali (as) was able to only use such power only when he traveled back in time to help a Prophet. Now the powers will only return with their 12th imam who will abolish taqiyyah and show his super power.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 02:41:05 AM by Rationalist »

Rationalist

Re: Masked Ghuluw of today's Rafidah
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2015, 02:42:53 AM »
Do ask but don't make it sound as though it is impossible, what has been attributed to the Prophet's (pbuh) progeny.

You either don't understand their status or you don't want to because that puts them well above the rest and this is what the problem is. This is what some people don't like.
Yes my Dozener friend. Lets not forget the 12er's belief in rajat when the 11 Imams plus the Prophet will be brought back to life by the 12th Imam.






Ameen

Re: Masked Ghuluw of today's Rafidah
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2015, 05:51:02 PM »
Sulayman (as) is a Prophet and his story is mentioned in Allah's book as one of his miracles.

Is a scholar called Ja`far from banu Hashim also capable of having these powers while it isn't mentioned in Allah's book nor is he a Prophet?

I reject this and consider it some form of Ghuluw some of his followers attributed to him.

If you think it is established, bring forth Qur'anic evidence or at least evidence from the Sunnah that Ja`far does possess such powers. Otherwise, what's to stop Ahlul-Sunnah from claiming that Abu Bakr or `Uthman can move mountains and make the rain fall "by Allah's permission."

In other words, whatever is established in the religion of Allah we accept, whatever isn't is Ghuluw.

Brother when was king Soloman's (as) time and when was the Quran revealed??? king Soloman (as) lived before the Quran was revealed, well before.

Now Quran speaks about the past and you want evidence from the Quran about the future??? Which book and Shariath did we have before king Soloman's (as) time??? Can you prove the story of king Soloman (as) from that holy book???

The Quran speaks about and clarifies incidents, events, stories, tales, disputes etc of the past and you want evidence of the present???

Hazrath Ali (as) is considered and known as Maula Mushkil Kusha by the Sunnis as well as the Shias. I don't know which Sunnis are you who speak for the entire Ahle Sunnah of the world and know one knows and believes in your ideology and views.

You can link things to anyone but belief of the vast majority is another thing. No one is linking anything to anyone, these are stories of the past but during or after the Quran was revealed.

How true are they, well one can discuss and look in to that but it doesn't matter which issue or matter it is, be it fadak or some story or tale, it's how you put it across and represent it, like we don't want to believe in this or this is impossible.





















 


Hani

Re: Masked Ghuluw of today's Rafidah
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2015, 06:14:10 PM »
Ameen, we believe that Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq can listen to the voice of angels and he can increase the blessings and the food of the people.

It's not in the Qur'an but we believe it.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ameen

Re: Masked Ghuluw of today's Rafidah
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2015, 05:17:07 PM »
Ameen, we believe that Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq can listen to the voice of angels and he can increase the blessings and the food of the people.

It's not in the Qur'an but we believe it.

And this is my response;

Thank you very much for your response and thanks for sharing this with me. You have a right to your opinion and must not be picked on and or laughed at because of who and what your are and what you believe in.

It's not in the Quran??? Well that's ok, since there are a lot of things which are not in the Quran. And Quran on it's own is not Shariath or the only source but it's Quran and Sunnath which makes and is Shariath.

For example we Muslims believe in 124,000 Messengers and this is our core belief but you wont find this in the Quran. If it is then please tell me.

Brother how did you believe in what you have said about Hazrath Abu Bakar (ra)???

And the discussion would carry on from here. This is humanitarian and is exactly what Islam is all about.














Hani

Re: Masked Ghuluw of today's Rafidah
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2015, 05:41:09 PM »
^ From narrations we learned. Can't bother looking for them now.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Taha

Re: Masked Ghuluw of today's Rafidah
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2015, 07:22:44 PM »
Ameen, we believe that Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq can listen to the voice of angels and he can increase the blessings and the food of the people.

It's not in the Qur'an but we believe it.

I hope this is sarcasm?  Please tell me it is ...

Hani

Re: Masked Ghuluw of today's Rafidah
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2015, 08:56:14 PM »
Ameen, we believe that Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq can listen to the voice of angels and he can increase the blessings and the food of the people.

It's not in the Qur'an but we believe it.

I hope this is sarcasm?  Please tell me it is ...

It is, I'm trying to see if he objects to it (like 99% of Shia would do)
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Taha

Re: Masked Ghuluw of today's Rafidah
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2015, 10:14:27 PM »
Although I heard that angels were "shy" in front of Umar/Uthman (can't remember which one). That seems a little odd ..

Hadrami

Re: Masked Ghuluw of today's Rafidah
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2015, 10:35:38 PM »
Although I heard that angels were "shy" in front of Umar/Uthman (can't remember which one). That seems a little odd ..

It was uthman RA. Seriously, how can anything be odd for shia?

Hani

Re: Masked Ghuluw of today's Rafidah
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2015, 11:49:03 PM »
Although I heard that angels were "shy" in front of Umar/Uthman (can't remember which one). That seems a little odd ..

That's about `Uthman, he was known for his great shyness and high morals that Rasul-Allah (saw) used to praise him by saying that angels act around him with shyness.

عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hani

Re: Masked Ghuluw of today's Rafidah
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2015, 08:04:49 PM »
Hahaha look at what's happening in the Arabic forum, they quoted the popular Shia book "al-Lam`ah al-Bayda'" by al-Tabrizi al-Ansari, and on page 75 he says:

"And due to their quickness which is the result of the grace, no matter would preoccupy them from another, nor a location from another, as their worlds are elevated above the world which is bound by the progress of time, this is why `Ali's tongue (as) used to do Khatm-ul-Qur'an in one minute, rather if he wished he could read the full Qur'an a million times in one minute, because of his noble divine tongue etc.."

And this was discussed here:
http://www.dd-sunnah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=177125

Then we got a Shia, and guess what he said? He said: "I say this is possible for the chief of believers and the legatee of the Messenger (saw) and his successor with Allah's permission of course."
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hadrami

Re: Masked Ghuluw of today's Rafidah
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2015, 12:17:34 AM »
Hahaha look at what's happening in the Arabic forum, they quoted the popular Shia book "al-Lam`ah al-Bayda'" by al-Tabrizi al-Ansari, and on page 75 he says:

"And due to their quickness which is the result of the grace, no matter would preoccupy them from another, nor a location from another, as their worlds are elevated above the world which is bound by the progress of time, this is why `Ali's tongue (as) used to do Khatm-ul-Qur'an in one minute, rather if he wished he could read the full Qur'an a million times in one minute, because of his noble divine tongue etc.."

And this was discussed here:
http://www.dd-sunnah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=177125

Then we got a Shia, and guess what he said? He said: "I say this is possible for the chief of believers and the legatee of the Messenger (saw) and his successor with Allah's permission of course."

In a minute? I guess the imam didnt even know what tartil is :D

Rationalist

Re: Masked Ghuluw of today's Rafidah
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2015, 05:46:14 AM »
Here is miracle from the Imams, where the Imams is providing the Rafidah with gas when they ran out.


Hani

Re: Masked Ghuluw of today's Rafidah
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2015, 04:51:40 PM »
Didn't you hear he owns a gas company? "Ghaybah Gas LTD"
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Muhammad Tazin

Re: Masked Ghuluw of today's Rafidah
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2015, 05:00:03 PM »
Learn Arabic to communicate with the Hidden Imam, he is bad in Persian, so letter should be in Arabic :D

 

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