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Self fulfilling prophecy

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zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Self fulfilling prophecy
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2016, 01:47:44 AM »
I'm still waiting for the part where dhahabi says he believes or confirms muhammad ibn hasan askari existing.
All you quoted is dhahabi mentioning what the shia believe.

Qizilbash_Safavid

Re: Self fulfilling prophecy
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2016, 01:49:12 AM »
I'm still waiting for the part where dhahabi says he believes or confirms muhammad ibn hasan askari existing.
All you quoted is dhahabi mentioning what the shia believe.

He says he is the son of Hassan and it's unknown how he died, he said the shia believe he is still alive
"If it were not for Ali, Umar would have been destroyed!" (said in 70 different occasions)
-Umar Ibn al Khattab

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Self fulfilling prophecy
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2016, 02:19:35 AM »
Dhahabi is mentioning the belief held by the shia. No where does he says its his belief.

Khomeni in his books refers to Umar as the second caliph.
Now according to your logic khomeni believes in Umar being the kalifallah.


Qizilbash_Safavid

Re: Self fulfilling prophecy
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2016, 02:36:19 AM »
Dhahabi is mentioning the belief held by the shia. No where does he says its his belief.

Khomeni in his books refers to Umar as the second caliph.
Now according to your logic khomeni believes in Umar being the kalifallah.

He's not mentioning that he's the Mahdi, he's confirming that Hassan (as) had a son named Muhammad, and his death is unknown, however the shia believe he's still alive

Sunnis constantly say there is no evidence of his birth, and of course sheep sunnis accept it without even studying it and seeing if its true or not……

An even bigger slap to the face of sunnis, the name of the 12th Imam is on the walls of Masjid Nabawi, says (may allah be pleased with him), anymore proofs needed?

« Last Edit: December 24, 2016, 02:43:49 AM by Qizilbash_Safavid »
"If it were not for Ali, Umar would have been destroyed!" (said in 70 different occasions)
-Umar Ibn al Khattab

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Self fulfilling prophecy
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2016, 02:56:11 AM »
There's a difference between referencing or quoting something & believing in it.
When one reads dhahabi's bios you will see this. Be fair & not desperate.

Also the name written in masjid al nabawi isn't muhammad ibn hasan.
Its muhammad al mahdi which is the sunni belief too.

Abu Muhammad

Re: Self fulfilling prophecy
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2016, 02:56:46 AM »
An even bigger slap to the face of sunnis, the name of the 12th Imam is on the walls of Masjid Nabawi, says (may allah be pleased with him), anymore proofs needed?

Hahaha... having a name on a wall is a proof?

Dhahabi is mentioning the belief held by the shia. No where does he says its his belief.

He's not mentioning that he's the Mahdi, he's confirming that Hassan (as) had a son named Muhammad, and his death is unknown, however the shia believe he's still alive

As a "Sunni sources" guy, please quote Adh-Dhahabi's statement in full and from which book wrote.

Qizilbash_Safavid

Re: Self fulfilling prophecy
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2016, 02:58:32 AM »
There's a difference between referencing or quoting something & believing in it.
When one reads dhahabi's bios you will see this. Be fair & not desperate.

Also the name written in masjid al nabawi isn't muhammad ibn hasan.
Its muhammad al mahdi which is the sunni belief too.

Again, I never said he said he is in occultation or that he's the awaited savior, however, he confirmed he was born. Many scholars have confirmed this, however they don't accept he is the awaited one or that he's still alive.
"If it were not for Ali, Umar would have been destroyed!" (said in 70 different occasions)
-Umar Ibn al Khattab

Qizilbash_Safavid

Re: Self fulfilling prophecy
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2016, 03:00:42 AM »
An even bigger slap to the face of sunnis, the name of the 12th Imam is on the walls of Masjid Nabawi, says (may allah be pleased with him), anymore proofs needed?

Hahaha... having a name on a wall is a proof?

Dhahabi is mentioning the belief held by the shia. No where does he says its his belief.

He's not mentioning that he's the Mahdi, he's confirming that Hassan (as) had a son named Muhammad, and his death is unknown, however the shia believe he's still alive

As a "Sunni sources" guy, please quote Adh-Dhahabi's statement in full and from which book wrote.

I posted it in the above comments, he confirms he was born however says he died.

And yes, a name on a wall that says (may Allah be pleased with him) right after the 11th Imam confirms such a man existed... , Sunnis of the past confirmed his birth, just not his occultation

This idea that his birth had never been recorded is some new Wahhabi lie perpetuated by anti majos (ebn hossein) may Allah gather him with shimr
"If it were not for Ali, Umar would have been destroyed!" (said in 70 different occasions)
-Umar Ibn al Khattab

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Self fulfilling prophecy
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2016, 03:15:25 AM »
Dhahabi mentioned the various HISTORICAL opinions on hasan askari's supposed son. He mentions the opinion of those who deny he had a son, also the opinion of those who say he was born but died then the view of the shia that he never died.

By your logic you would have to say dhahabi also believed he never existed & also believed he did exist but died.

Which is his opinion?

Here's a hint. If he believed he was born then he would have included his bio on the year he was born.

All dhahabi did was mention the historical accounts without placing his own belief or bias.


Qizilbash_Safavid

Re: Self fulfilling prophecy
« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2016, 03:18:05 AM »
Dhahabi mentioned the various HISTORICAL opinions on hasan askari's supposed son. He mentions the opinion of those who deny he had a son, also the opinion of those who say he was born but died then the view of the shia that he never died.

By your logic you would have to say dhahabi also believed he never existed & also believed he did exist but died.

Which is his opinion?

Here's a hint. If he believed he was born then he would have included his bio on the year he was born.

All dhahabi did was mention the historical accounts without placing his own belief or bias.

Weak excuses bro, he mentions clearly his birth. If the fact that he was born but died is another's opinion, then who's opinion is it? No Shias say he was born then died without cause.

"As for his son Muhammad bin Alhassan that they call to as the awaited one, he was born year 58 and it is not known how he has died. His mom is Um Walad and they claim he is still alive in the sirdab for 450 years.

"If it were not for Ali, Umar would have been destroyed!" (said in 70 different occasions)
-Umar Ibn al Khattab

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Self fulfilling prophecy
« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2016, 03:36:07 AM »
Do you not see the common reoccurence of the word 'they' in the paragraph?






Qizilbash_Safavid

Re: Self fulfilling prophecy
« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2016, 03:57:10 AM »
Do you not see the common reoccurence of the word 'they' in the paragraph?

It says they call him the awaited one and they say he's alive,
"If it were not for Ali, Umar would have been destroyed!" (said in 70 different occasions)
-Umar Ibn al Khattab

Hani

Re: Self fulfilling prophecy
« Reply #32 on: December 24, 2016, 04:52:43 AM »
Dhahabi mentioned the various HISTORICAL opinions on hasan askari's supposed son. He mentions the opinion of those who deny he had a son, also the opinion of those who say he was born but died then the view of the shia that he never died.

By your logic you would have to say dhahabi also believed he never existed & also believed he did exist but died.

Which is his opinion?

Here's a hint. If he believed he was born then he would have included his bio on the year he was born.

All dhahabi did was mention the historical accounts without placing his own belief or bias.

Weak excuses bro, he mentions clearly his birth. If the fact that he was born but died is another's opinion, then who's opinion is it? No Shias say he was born then died without cause.

"As for his son Muhammad bin Alhassan that they call to as the awaited one, he was born year 58 and it is not known how he has died. His mom is Um Walad and they claim he is still alive in the sirdab for 450 years.



Dhahabi clearly says the entire story is nonsense but you guys don't translate those parts. Cuz ur honest n all.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

 

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