TwelverShia.net Forum
Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Imamah-Ghaybah => Topic started by: Qamar Farooq on December 03, 2018, 08:36:41 AM
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ladies and gentlemen, i give you.................*Drumrolls*.................Shia Tawheed in action. Enjoy! May Allah protect the layman muslim from this fitnah. May Allah guide our Shia brothers and sisters in humanity towards REAL tawheed. May Allah give Anti-Majos and TSD reward for their hard work and give them ease so they can expand their operations and spread the truth further. Ameeeen!
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ladies and gentlemen, i give you.................*Drumrolls*.................Shia Tawheed in action. Enjoy! May Allah protect the layman muslim from this fitnah. May Allah guide our Shia brothers and sisters in humanity towards REAL tawheed. May Allah give Anti-Majos and TSD reward for their hard work and give them ease so they can expand their operations and spread the truth further. Ameeeen!
Fitnah is caused by people like you. That's your job is guess.
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Your ears will be burnt if you understand Urdu, because of the speeches of the dauntless Pakistani Mushrikeen
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Your ears will be burnt if you understand Urdu, because of the speeches of the dauntless Pakistani Mushrikeen
...that is why I chose to not watch these clips (after the first few minutes). I am a nervous flier and hearing the Shias call upon humans was really unsettling for me (not to mention the severe turbulence).
As for the kufr being spewed by these Indian/Pakistani zakirs, it is best we don't watch any of it. I remember an old clip of Ammar Nakshawani in which he modified Surah Al-Kawthar to make it a chest-beating song. He would say, "Inna 'atayna kal-kawthar, Haidar Haidar Haidar....." For its size (only 3 ayah), I often find myself reciting Surah Al-Kawthar; took me months to get that khabeeth's modified version of the Surah (and his voice) out of my head.
This sort of kufr stays, and plays itself continuously, in your head. It can be a real nuisance.
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Against my better judgment, I watched the second clip. Beyond disturbing; made my skin crawl.
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ladies and gentlemen, i give you.................*Drumrolls*.................Shia Tawheed in action. Enjoy! May Allah protect the layman muslim from this fitnah. May Allah guide our Shia brothers and sisters in humanity towards REAL tawheed. May Allah give Anti-Majos and TSD reward for their hard work and give them ease so they can expand their operations and spread the truth further. Ameeeen!
As soon as the clip started playing you instantly realise it's a propaganda video.
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As soon as the clip started playing you instantly realise it's a propaganda video.
In a clip that spans over 12 minutes, you only had an issue with the beginning? The kufr spewed in it did not bother you a bit? Or those who uploaded it somehow managed to put words in the mouths of those filthy khabeeths who, if under Imam Ali (ra), would have been burned at the stake?
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In a clip that spans over 12 minutes, you only had an issue with the beginning? The kufr spewed in it did not bother you a bit? Or those who uploaded it somehow managed to put words in the mouths of those filthy khabeeths who, if under Imam Ali (ra), would have been burned at the stake?
The start, the beginning of something is very important. It tells you a lot. If the start, the beginning isn't right then one can understand the reason and motive behind it. Kufr? What is it with you people and Kufr. The whole world is full of Kufr and you're busy trying your best to accuse Muslims of Kufr. What do you know about Kufr. You don't even know the definition and meaning of Kufr so what understanding would you have. What Kufr spewed in it.
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The start, the beginning of something is very important. It tells you a lot. If the start, the beginning isn't right then one can understand the reason and motive behind it. Kufr? What is it with you people and Kufr. The whole world is full of Kufr and you're busy trying your best to accuse Muslims of Kufr. What do you know about Kufr. You don't even know the definition and meaning of Kufr so what understanding would you have. What Kufr spewed in it.
.....and this is reason number 15383721 why people here consider you an imbecile. You took all that time to lecture me when all you had to do was condemn the filth spewed from the mouths of these Shi'i zakirs. And then you wonder why no one likes you!
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Pakistani rawafid are the most dumbest of creatures and I know many and debated them........just like another one in here all hot air and no substance.😉
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Pakistani rawafid are the most dumbest of creatures and I know many and debated them........just like another one in here all hot air and no substance.😉
Listening to them is a torture! "Baagh-e-Fidak"...."ibn-E-Abbas"...."toheed", etc. And I find it especially amusing when they mistake Farsi words as Arabic. I remember Zain (BladeRunner) proudly admitting he sends la'ana upon "dushmanaan-e Ahle Bayt". While speaking in English, there was no need for that interjection on his part except he must have thought it would make him appear more sophisticated and having some grasp on Arabic, lol.
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.....and this is reason number 15383721 why people here consider you an imbecile. You took all that time to lecture me when all you had to do was condemn the filth spewed from the mouths of these Shi'i zakirs. And then you wonder why no one likes you!
You and the rest of the few can consider me what you like. And I don't wonder why you don't like me. Why? Because I don't have time for your thinking and opinion. And it doesn't bother me the slightest.
I haven't lectured you. Just saying don't pick up bits and pieces and start, and a clip from here and there and try to prove and show that this is what the Shia ideology is all about.
Whether it is a Zakir or Maulana or a community member, what they say or do is their action alone. The Shia ideology and school of thought and the entire Shia community is something different. The same applies to other sects, faiths and beliefs.
We don't go around showing the Saudi regime or showing some clip of a Sunni Muslim committing a terror offence and saying "this is what the Ahle Sunnah are all about" and start jumping up and down over it. Wake up people and shake this propaganda illness off.
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Listening to them is a torture! "Baagh-e-Fidak"...."ibn-E-Abbas"...."toheed", etc. And I find it especially amusing when they mistake Farsi words as Arabic. I remember Zain (BladeRunner) proudly admitting he sends la'ana upon "dushmanaan-e Ahle Bayt". While speaking in English, there was no need for that interjection on his part except he must have thought it would make him appear more sophisticated and having some grasp on Arabic, lol.
Sending La'ana upon the enemies of the Ahle Baith, does this make your skin crawl? Does it deeply bother you?
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Pakistani rawafid are the most dumbest of creatures and I know many and debated them........just like another one in here all hot air and no substance.😉
You DEBATED them? What do you know about debate. All you know is sarcasm and insults. And smiley faces of course 😀
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You and the rest of the few can consider me what you like. And I don't wonder why you don't like me. Why? Because I don't have time for your thinking and opinion. And it doesn't bother me the slightest.
Yet you, in vain, keep defending yourself.
I haven't lectured you. Just saying don't pick up bits and pieces and start, and a clip from here and there and try to prove and show that this is what the Shia ideology is all about.
Can you find us the entirety of those lectures? Or how about this, can you possibly imagine what those zakirs must have said before or after issuing those kufrish statements to somehow dilute them and reaffirm their pure Tawheed?
I am giving you a chance to - with your creativity - downplay those kufrish statements. To put it in another way, you are free to say anything so long as those statements are diluted. If you cannot do that then taken within context or out-of-context, you must admit that those statements are kufr.
If I were you, I would invest my time and energy in distancing myself from their statements.
Whether it is a Zakir or Maulana or a community member, what they say or do is their action alone. The Shia ideology and school of thought and the entire Shia community is something different. The same applies to other sects, faiths and beliefs.
I agree but is it a coincidence, misfortune or deliberate action that we find so many of your community leaders issuing such statements whereas you cannot find one Sunni scholar worth the name to even consider Abu Bakr (ra), or the other two, to be infallible let alone sitting on The Throne, etc?
We don't go around showing the Saudi regime or showing some clip of a Sunni Muslim committing a terror offence and saying "this is what the Ahle Sunnah are all about" and start jumping up and down over it. Wake up people and shake this propaganda illness off.
WHAT? That is exactly what you do! You have brought up Saudi Arabia's criminal actions in the past and the mere fact that you have brought it up again is a reaffirmation of it. On top of being a bad debater, you are an awful liar too. And the sad bit is that we condemn Saudi Arabia's criminal policies as much as you, perhaps more whereas you cannot even begin to defend, let alone condemn, the kufr coming from your Shi'i zakirs.
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You DEBATED them? What do you know about debate. All you know is sarcasm and insults. And smiley faces of course 😀
I swear by Allah swt YOU could NEVER provide a CLEAR verse on divine imamah and could NEVER answer your own theory........PROMOTIONS!!!
You can crawl back in your crack where you came from and enjoy living it there and feel pleased with yourself, the truth to you is a bitter pill to swallow.
😉👍
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I swear by Allah swt YOU could NEVER provide a CLEAR verse on divine imamah and could NEVER answer your own theory........PROMOTIONS!!!
You can crawl back in your crack where you came from and enjoy living it there and feel pleased with yourself, the truth to you is a bitter pill to swallow.
😉👍
I provided you with an absolute and clear verse on Imamah but you don't want to accept it. Your arrogance and your stubbornness come in the way. I don't need to crawl back anywhere or swallow anything 😊
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I you, in vain, keep defending yourself.
Can you find us the entirety of those lectures? Or how about this, can you possibly imagine what those zakirs must have said before or after issuing those kufrish statements to somehow dilute them and reaffirm their pure Tawheed?
I am giving you a chance to - with your creativity - downplay those kufrish statements. To put it in another way, you are free to say anything so long as those statements are diluted. If you cannot do that then taken within context or out-of-context, you must admit that those statements are kufr.
If I were you, I would invest my time and energy in distancing myself from their statements.
I agree but is it a coincidence, misfortune or deliberate action that we find so many of your community leaders issuing such statements whereas you cannot find one Sunni scholar worth the name to even consider Abu Bakr (ra), or the other two, to be infallible let alone sitting on The Throne, etc?
WHAT? That is exactly what you do! You have brought up Saudi Arabia's criminal actions in the past and the mere fact that you have brought it up again is a reaffirmation of it. On top of being a bad debater, you are an awful liar too. And the sad bit is that we condemn Saudi Arabia's criminal policies as much as you, perhaps more whereas you cannot even begin to defend, let alone condemn, the kufr coming from your Shi'i zakirs.
"I you, in vain, keep defending yourself"
I'm not in vain. You live on thinking based on guesses, assumption and probability. It is my religious as well as my civil right to defend myself. And for everyone else. Don't you defend yourself. Don't others.
"Or how about this, can you possibly imagine what those zakirs must have said before or after issuing those kufrish statements to somehow dilute them and reaffirm their pure Tawheed?"
Don't go by what you see and hear. Look into things. Ask and investigate. Ask about things. Don't grudge about them.
"I am giving you a chance to - with your creativity - downplay those kufrish statements. To put it in another way, you are free to say anything so long as those statements are diluted. If you cannot do that then taken within context or out-of-context, you must admit that those statements are kufr"
I don't live on or by chances or assumptions. I live on honesty and the truth. I don't go by what I see and hear but by reality and facts. And so should you. What's bothering you? Talk to me.Talk about it. Don't grudge about it.
"If I were you, I would invest my time and energy in distancing myself from their statements"
You worry about yourself and let others worry about themselves. Don't stress yourself out. Invest your energy and time in honesty and truth. Look into yourself and what you are rather than worrying about others.
"whereas you cannot find one Sunni scholar worth the name to even consider Abu Bakr (ra), or the other two, to be infallible let alone sitting on The Throne, etc?"
Sunnis act and behave as the Shaykhain were some sort of untouchables. They protect and defend them as though they were something above infallibles.
I'll put you to the spot. Can you put any error, fault, mistake, any wrongness forward about the Shaykhain since they weren't infallible? Can you? No counter arguments or excuses. No twist and turns or diversions.
"That is exactly what you do! You have brought up Saudi Arabia's criminal actions in the past and the mere fact that you have brought it up again is a reaffirmation of it"
Nope. What you and others exactly do is constantly yapp on about Iran and the Iranian regime when there are other countries and regimes but you say nothing about them until they're brought up and mentioned. This is your honesty. Good luck with it.
"we condemn Saudi Arabia's criminal policies"
Show me any article or blog regarding this by you, mods, admins etc? Be it Saudi regime, Bahraini regime or how Yemen (Muslims) is being bombarded and innocent civilians are being killed by the Saudi led coalition (Muslims)?
We don't call Saudis or Ale Sauood Kafir or accuse them of Kufr just because we differ or disagree with them. Wake up and learn.
"the kufr coming from your Shi'i zakirs"
Like I said if something bothers you then talk about it. DON'T GRUDGE ABOUT IT! Because your attitude and beahaviour is not of a normal person who differs and disagrees. You sound and behave like an Anti and a hater.
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Surah Al-Maidah, verse 35.
"O you who have believed, fear Allah and seek the means [of nearness] to Him and strive in His cause that you may succeed"
Now one needs to think how does one SEEK THE MEANS OF NEARNESS to Allah. Point to be noted, MEANS OF NEARNESS. One thing we need to understand is that there is no direct link between mankind and Allah.
If there is a direct link then please let me know. If there is no direct link then how can there be a direct call? Something we need to understand rather than get emotional about.
Surah Al-Fatiha, verse 5.
"It is You we worship and You we ask for help"
Absolutely, it is Allah we ask for help or we seek help from. But how and in what way? Or one can say "through what or which MEANS?"
Allah has clearly said in Surah Al-Maidah, verse 35. "And seek the MEANS to him". So how does one seek help from someone who you don't and can't have a direct link with?
Lets not get emotional and start jumping up and down when we see or hear things. Lets look into things and gain knowledge and understanding.
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Here are two examples a brother put forward;
Would it be shirk to ask people for their help or assistance when one is in need? For example, let's imagine someone is in a life threatening situation, desperate for help and a passerby sees them, should they call them to come to their aid and help them or would it be considered as shirk because one should only seek and call Allah(swt) for help?
The thing is, it is with the will and power of Allah (swt) alone that allowed this person to come to their aid and help them. Moreover, it is absolute shirk to believe that the person comes to their aid without the will and power of Allah (swt) because Allah (swt) alone is in control of everything and none of his creations share a similar divine power as he does.
Here is another example. Using their logic, wouldn't it be shirk to ask someone to make Duaa for you because you are asking help from Allah (swt) through someone? Using their logic again, I would say, why do I need to ask people to make duaa for me when I can directly ask Allah (swt)?
That being said, there is no difference between asking Allah (swt) directly or through someone else via duaa because at the end, only Allah (swt) alone will answer your duaa weather the entire world makes duaa for you or not.
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ladies and gentlemen, i give you.................*Drumrolls*.................Shia Tawheed in action. Enjoy! May Allah protect the layman muslim from this fitnah. May Allah guide our Shia brothers and sisters in humanity towards REAL tawheed. May Allah give Anti-Majos and TSD reward for their hard work and give them ease so they can expand their operations and spread the truth further. Ameeeen!
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dk_VyAqzVfQw&ved=2ahUKEwiFjviPs5PfAhWDmLQKHVObC0gQwqsBMAZ6BAgLEAg&usg=AOvVaw10y9DmVjJr4KVpb0-G-glj
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Surah Al-Nisaa, verse 64.
"And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah . And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad], and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful.
Note this part of the vetse;
"And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad]"
They had come to you? Shouldn't they be calling upon Allah?
Volume 2, Book 17, Number 123 :
Narrated by Anas
Whenever drought threatened them, 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, used to ask Al-Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib to invoke Allah for rain. He used to say, "O Allah! We used to ask our Prophet to invoke You for rain, and You would bless us with rain, and now we ask his uncle to invoke You for rain. O Allah ! Bless us with rain.".And so it would rain.
Note this bit;
"Umar bin Al-Khattab, used to ask Al-Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib to invoke Allah for rain"
Why ask Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib? Why not call upon Allah directly?
It should be clear by now that certain people have a misunderstanding. And they need to clear it.
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In a clip that spans over 12 minutes, you only had an issue with the beginning? The kufr spewed in it did not bother you a bit? Or those who uploaded it somehow managed to put words in the mouths of those filthy khabeeths who, if under Imam Ali (ra), would have been burned at the stake?
You speak about Kufr in the video. Take a look at this;
Volume 2, Book 17, Number 122 :
Narrated by 'Abdullah bin Dinar
My father said, "I heard Ibn 'Umar reciting the poetic verses of Abu Talib: And a white (person) (i.e. the Prophet) who is requested to pray for rain and who takes care of the orphans and is the guardian of widows." Salim's father (Ibn 'Umar) said, "The following poetic verse occurred to my mind while I was looking at the face of the Prophet (p.b.u.h) while he was praying for rain. He did not get down till the rain water flowed profusely from every roof-g utter: And a white (person) who is requested to pray for rain and who takes care of the orphans and is the guardian of widows . . . And these were the words of Abu Talib."
Ibn 'Umar reciting the poetic verses of Abu Talib? What, Ibn Umar reciting poetic verses of a Kafir? Have I got it wrong? Can you shed some light on this?
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"Umar bin Al-Khattab, used to ask Al-Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib to invoke Allah for rain"
Why ask Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib? Why not call upon Allah directly?
If you have not watched the video and trying to make this hadith comparable to what is being said (on the video), I urge you to watch the video. If you have watched the video and trying to equate it with this hadith then you are a piece of $hit, the kind when you flush still sticks to the bowl.
Umar (ra) would ask Abbas (ra) to pray for rain when Abbas (ra) was ALIVE. And tawassul, even according to extreme Salafis, is acceptable when you ask a pious, living person - who is in your midst - to make du'a for you or for your need.
Ibn 'Umar reciting the poetic verses of Abu Talib? What, Ibn Umar reciting poetic verses of a Kafir? Have I got it wrong? Can you shed some light on this?
I can answer this on many levels but the simplest response would be that ibn Umar (ra) was not infallible. However, it is good that you have declared Abu Talib kafir, lol! Much like your change of stance on Muawiya and Banu Umayyah (in the other topic), you are now following the sound position regarding Abu Talib!
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I provided you with an absolute and clear verse on Imamah but you don't want to accept it. Your arrogance and your stubbornness come in the way. I don't need to crawl back anywhere or swallow anything 😊
LIAR I repeat you are a LIAR you produce verses with YOUR own commentary and use an example of a theory of promotions to add to the verse so it makes it look as if there is some divine Imamate in there but in reality you just keep hitting a wall and CANNOT answer on why others didn’t need promotions.
Dead theory from the get go hence you cannot answer it.
Here it is again.........the great knowledge what the imams taught you, your great knowledgeable ayatollahs taught you..........”Arrogant Stubborn” is your answer written in all your posts where you can no longer answer divinity imarmite.😜👍
And I ain’t even started on promotions......yet.😂
To be honest you did crawl from a crack from some dark place only to be confronted by the light of sunnah and now it’s hard for you to swallow the TRUTH so you label the rest as just aroogant and stubborn.😂😂👍
Summary:
Iceman the great intellectual Shiite who cannot provide any clear verse or answer his own theory of promotions, is QUICK to insult if not understood, this is their teaching in shiism as iceman above is RELAYING to us for months.👍
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If you have not watched the video and trying to make this hadith comparable to what is being said (on the video), I urge you to watch the video. If you have watched the video and trying to equate it with this hadith then you are a piece of $hit, the kind when you flush still sticks to the bowl.
Umar (ra) would ask Abbas (ra) to pray for rain when Abbas (ra) was ALIVE. And tawassul, even according to extreme Salafis, is acceptable when you ask a pious, living person - who is in your midst - to make du'a for you or for your need.
I can answer this on many levels but the simplest response would be that ibn Umar (ra) was not infallible. However, it is good that you have declared Abu Talib kafir, lol! Much like your change of stance on Muawiya and Banu Umayyah (in the other topic), you are now following the sound position regarding Abu Talib!
You've absolutely disregarded all the other posts since you knew that you couldn't touch them. Anyways, I've watched the video, now tell me exactly what is your problem? What's exactly killing you in that video where you can't get a grip on yourself?
"then you are a piece of $hit, the kind when you flush still sticks to the bowl"
You don't have to keep telling us about yourself with such a language. We know the grudge that you've been brought up with and the filth that you've been raised by.
"Umar (ra) would ask Abbas (ra) to pray for rain when Abbas (ra) was "ALIVE"
Umar would ask Abbas to pray......but why? Was he not sure about himself or he didn't have the credibility? Or was it something else?
"when Abbas (ra) was "ALIVE"
And Ali is alive as well. And he is receiving rizq from Allah just as us.So what seems to be your problem then? You've got yourself stuck badly boy.
"And tawassul, even according to extreme Salafis, is acceptable when you ask a pious, living person - who is in your midst - to make du'a for you or for your need"
So what seems to be the problem then?
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LIAR I repeat you are a LIAR you produce verses with YOUR own commentary and use an example of a theory of promotions to add to the verse so it makes it look as if there is some divine Imamate in there but in reality you just keep hitting a wall and CANNOT answer on why others didn’t need promotions.
Dead theory from the get go hence you cannot answer it.
Here it is again.........the great knowledge what the imams taught you, your great knowledgeable ayatollahs taught you..........”Arrogant Stubborn” is your answer written in all your posts where you can no longer answer divinity imarmite.😜👍
And I ain’t even started on promotions......yet.😂
To be honest you did crawl from a crack from some dark place only to be confronted by the light of sunnah and now it’s hard for you to swallow the TRUTH so you label the rest as just aroogant and stubborn.😂😂👍
Summary:
Iceman the great intellectual Shiite who cannot provide any clear verse or answer his own theory of promotions, is QUICK to insult if not understood, this is their teaching in shiism as iceman above is RELAYING to us for months.👍
I'm not a liar, I don't add anything to any verse and I do not produce verses with my own commentary.
You don't believe in divine Imamate and I proved divine Imamate right from the Qur'an. You instead of answering ran away to other questions. You asked and I answered. I asked and you ran forward. Just to jog your memory here is your question agsin;
You: "can you prove Imamate from the Qur'an?"
Me: "yes I can and here is the evidence"
And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you an Imam for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."
Now my question to you was,
Was Abraham promoted, demoted or given a title of a similar nature and grade after he was tried by his Lord?
You STILL ON THE RUN AND STILL WILL BE.
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I'm not a liar, I don't add anything to any verse and I do not produce verses with my own commentary.
You don't believe in divine Imamate and I proved divine Imamate right from the Qur'an. You instead of answering ran away to other questions. You asked and I answered. I asked and you ran forward. Just to jog your memory here is your question agsin;
You: "can you prove Imamate from the Qur'an?"
Me: "yes I can and here is the evidence"
And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you an Imam for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."
Now my question to you was,
Was Abraham promoted, demoted or given a title of a similar nature and grade after he was tried by his Lord?
You STILL ON THE RUN AND STILL WILL BE.
I’ve answered and it twisted you up that you never replied again lol
Here it is again........Ibrahim as was neither promoted or attained any similar grade after prophethood, to us prophethood is the top divine status.
Now can you explain why and how the imams bypassed nabuwwah and the last prophet saw NEVER mentioned such a grade or achieve such a station after His own nabuwwah.
It’s been months and you haven’t moved past this.......yet!!!!
RUN??? Oh come on the whole world knows who RAN and is still RUNNING out of fear of Sunnis.
😉
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You've absolutely disregarded all the other posts since you knew that you couldn't touch them. Anyways, I've watched the video, now tell me exactly what is your problem? What's exactly killing you in that video where you can't get a grip on yourself?
Wait a minute, are you saying that there was nothing wrong with anything said in those videos (by those Shia zakirs)?
You don't have to keep telling us about yourself with such a language. We know the grudge that you've been brought up with and the filth that you've been raised by.
It is clear who has been raised with filth since you do not see anything wrong with that video.
Umar would ask Abbas to pray......but why? Was he not sure about himself or he didn't have the credibility? Or was it something else?
Don't you ask your parents to pray for you during, lets say, finals week? Are you not sure about yourself or do you not have the credibility? Or is it something else?
It is quite obvious that you do not understand basic Islam or you deliberately choose to be an idiot.
And Ali is alive as well. And he is receiving rizq from Allah just as us.So what seems to be your problem then? You've got yourself stuck badly boy.
I knew what your lame comeback would be which is why I clearly stated, "And tawassul, even according to extreme Salafis, is acceptable when you ask a pious, living person - who is in your midst - to make du'a for you or for your need".
So what seems to be the problem then?
Can someone ban this guy and put him out of his misery? That way he can earn some points on his victim card.
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Surah Al-Nisaa, verse 64.
"And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah . And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad], and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful.
Note this part of the vetse;
"And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad]"
They had come to you? Shouldn't they be calling upon Allah?
It seems that you were adamant to perceive the meaning of the verse, while trying to legalize the speeches of these mushrikeen.
The ayat mentions that they would have come to Prophet Muhammad(ﷺ) , to ask forgiveness of Allah , not to ask Prophet Muhammad(ﷺ) to forgive by himself, as like saying "O Nabi, forgive us , give as najaat" etc..
Allah is the authority to forgive those sinners here, and Prophet Muhammad(ﷺ) is for asking to Allah, as he is beloved most to Allah.
It's not as the twelvers claim that their Imams got departments distributed among themselves to forgive people, provide rizq and children etc.
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I’ve answered and it twisted you up that you never replied again lol
Here it is again........Ibrahim as was neither promoted or attained any similar grade after prophethood, to us prophethood is the top divine status.
Now can you explain why and how the imams bypassed nabuwwah and the last prophet saw NEVER mentioned such a grade or achieve such a station after His own nabuwwah.
It’s been months and you haven’t moved past this.......yet!!!!
RUN??? Oh come on the whole world knows who RAN and is still RUNNING out of fear of Sunnis.
😉
"Here it is again........Ibrahim as was neither promoted or attained any similar grade after prophethood, to us prophethood is the top divine status"
Ok. Here is the verse again;
"And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you an Imam for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."
"When Abraham was tried by his Lord"
'TRIED' ? What do you make of this? Want to look up the dictionary of what tried means.
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"Here it is again........Ibrahim as was neither promoted or attained any similar grade after prophethood, to us prophethood is the top divine status"
Ok. Here is the verse again;
"And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you an Imam for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."
"When Abraham was tried by his Lord"
'TRIED' ? What do you make of this? Want to look up the dictionary of what tried means. Tried by whom? By his Lord. Tried by what? By commands. Did he fullfill his trial? Yes he did. So that means he past by being successful. If he didn't then he certainly would have failed. That would mean he didn't succeed.
Since Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them, he was made an Imam of the people. You are clearly mitigating the matter here just to serve your purpose. If Imam just means 'leader' and by your thinking there is nothing important and serious here then what was the whole point of the trial?
According to you Prophethood is the top divine status. So Abraham was already Prophet. Again what was the purpose of the trial. And when succeeded what was the point of Allah making Abraham an Imam of the people?
Anyways, I've made my point and I've seen your confrontational stance. And I know your going to remain stubborn about it.
Now lets take a look at your question which has been delayed due to your arrogance and stubbornness.
"Now can you explain why and how the imams bypassed nabuwwah and the last prophet saw NEVER mentioned such a grade or achieve such a station after His own nabuwwah.
You have two questions here;
1, Can you explain why and how the imams bypassed nabuwwah.
2, The last prophet saw NEVER mentioned such a grade or achieve such a station after His own nabuwwah.
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"Now can you explain why and how the imams bypassed nabuwwah and the last prophet saw NEVER mentioned such a grade or achieve such a station after His own nabuwwah.
You have two questions here;
1, Can you explain why and how the imams bypassed nabuwwah.
2, The last prophet saw NEVER mentioned such a grade or achieve such a station after His own nabuwwah.
Answer to question 1, The Imams didn’t bypass Nabuwah. Rather than trying to bring in and implement your own understanding, try to understand. Your questions are based on trying to get your desired result and conclusion.
Allah does as he pleases. He alone decides. Why? Because he knows better. When did we say that it is necessary for one to be a prophet first before you can become an Imam.
Let me break this down for you. You have two status. 1, Messenger hood and 2, Prophethood. Here the first status is Messenger hood and the second is Prophethood. Either you are a Messenger and that is it. Or you are a Messenger and a Prophet. You can't be a Prophet alone without being a Messenger first.
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The question of Imamate. Abraham was a Messenger and a Prophet. After being tried and succeeding he was made an Imam of the people. Any person with an open mind and a little bit of sense and logic would know the score here.
It doesn't say anywhere or we haven’t said anywhere that you have to be a Prophet first before you can obtain the title of an Imam. It is down to Allah and at his discretion who he grades and to what and which status and position.
Your questions aren't to learn and to get to know. But just to derail and divert attention. I know that and your intentions. But I will reply and address no matter what.
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Wait a minute, are you saying that there was nothing wrong with anything said in those videos (by those Shia zakirs)?
It is clear who has been raised with filth since you do not see anything wrong with that video.
Don't you ask your parents to pray for you during, lets say, finals week? Are you not sure about yourself or do you not have the credibility? Or is it something else?
It is quite obvious that you do not understand basic Islam or you deliberately choose to be an idiot.
I knew what your lame comeback would be which is why I clearly stated, "And tawassul, even according to extreme Salafis, is acceptable when you ask a pious, living person - who is in your midst - to make du'a for you or for your need".
Can someone ban this guy and put him out of his misery? That way he can earn some points on his victim card.
"Wait a minute, are you saying that there was nothing wrong with anything said in those videos (by those Shia zakirs)?"
What is that video about? Who took that footage etc etc. What ever seems to be bothering you put it forward and talk about it. Don't grudge about it.
Apart from everything else that's going on in this world and so many issues and matters that have so much importance, why give so much attention to this particular footage. And use it to try and paint a picture about the entire Shia faith and community?
"It is clear who has been raised with filth since you do not see anything wrong with that video"
Filth is what's been coming out of your mouth constantly and you haven't been warned about it let alone banned. Worry about yourself and don't let such a tiny clip end your life. Don't get too depressed over it.
"Don't you ask your parents to pray for you during, lets say, finals week? Are you not sure about yourself or do you not have the credibility? Or is it something else?"
Yes I do ask my parents and would that be shirk according to you since you should call on Allah and not anyone else. My parents are better than me. Did Umar call upon someone because he was better than Umar?
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"Here it is again........Ibrahim as was neither promoted or attained any similar grade after prophethood, to us prophethood is the top divine status"
Ok. Here is the verse again;
"And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you an Imam for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."
"When Abraham was tried by his Lord"
'TRIED' ? What do you make of this? Want to look up the dictionary of what tried means.
SEE.......you are adding your own theory into it.
Indeed Ibrahim as was tried in His prophethood and fulfilled the commandments set by Allah swt, we agree with the verse, but He wasn’t tried so He can achieve a higher status, that’s just your theory you made up to prop up Imamate.
The problem starts when you ADD your own set of ideas into the verse, in no way does the verse insinuate after prophethood comes imamah apart from you using the word “tried” as if to insinuate it was a test to reach a higher status than prophethood.
Again you are using verses that have nothing to do with something higher than nabuwwah......imamah.
TRIED according to the verse of the Quran on Ibrahim as is answered if you knew our hadiths, it’s easy to find, if not I will post it for you.
Those tests weren’t tests to reach a higher status my lil friend this is where you are having big problems explaining.
1.6 billion Muslims can’t see the imamah but only a fraction out of that say 200 mill,you included,for some odd reason CAN see it.😳
Ibrahim as was tried with tests and passed Alhamdulillah and His offspring were the children of Israel and Allah swt blessed them as we all know and what great leaders they were, He was the imam of them all a leader whom all the 3 sister faiths Islam/Christianity/Judaism look up to and is a great prophet and LEADER/imam for us, simple easy and understandable, we don’t need to delve on certain words to create a vague idea or theory, Alhamdulillah.
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"Now can you explain why and how the imams bypassed nabuwwah and the last prophet saw NEVER mentioned such a grade or achieve such a station after His own nabuwwah.
You have two questions here;
1, Can you explain why and how the imams bypassed nabuwwah.
2, The last prophet saw NEVER mentioned such a grade or achieve such a station after His own nabuwwah.
Answer to question 1, The Imams didn’t bypass Nabuwah. Rather than trying to bring in and implement your own understanding, try to understand. Your questions are based on trying to get your desired result and conclusion.
LOOK WHOS TALKING😉
Allah does as he pleases. He alone decides. Why? Because he knows better. When did we say that it is necessary for one to be a prophet first before you can become an Imam.
Allah swt sure does as He pleases but He will not give you vague verses or no verses to defend yourselves.
SO WHY ON EARTH DO YOU KEEP REPEATING THE SAME VERSE OF IBRAHIM AS?
You say Imamate is higher yet prophets are mentioned but no divine imam is mentioned?
THINK!
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The question of Imamate. Abraham was a Messenger and a Prophet. After being tried and succeeding he was made an Imam of the people. Any person with an open mind and a little bit of sense and logic would know the score here.
Score? You haven’t even provided enough evidence to back your theory of divine imams let alone a prophet having to go through tests to achieve it.
It doesn't say anywhere or we haven’t said anywhere that you have to be a Prophet first before you can obtain the title of an Imam. It is down to Allah and at his discretion who he grades and to what and which status and position.
Huh? It’s YOU who keeps banging on about how a prophet was tested and passed to reach a higher status, it’s YOU who believe imams are higher than prophets apart from the last prophet saw, your post above tells me you are somewhat confused yourself and the cop out is.......it’s up to Allah swt.
I think you are getting confused with this promotion business.😜👍
Your questions aren't to learn and to get to know. But just to derail and divert attention. I know that and your intentions. But I will reply and address no matter what.
No, my questions make you realise your folly hence answers you reply with like above leaves a lot to be desired.
So YOU know I divert attention........I want proof for that or you are A LYING DECIEVING LIL RAT!!!
And I will keep with my words and call you such until you apologise.
It’s so easy for you to pin blame on people without proof, you came out with divine imams are in Quran etc and promotion theories and I am asking questions about them and this leads to diverting attention?
Grow up
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SEE.......you are adding your own theory into it.
Indeed Ibrahim as was tried in His prophethood and fulfilled the commandments set by Allah swt, we agree with the verse, but He wasn’t tried so He can achieve a higher status, that’s just your theory you made up to prop up Imamate.
The problem starts when you ADD your own set of ideas into the verse, in no way does the verse insinuate after prophethood comes imamah apart from you using the word “tried” as if to insinuate it was a test to reach a higher status than prophethood.
Again you are using verses that have nothing to do with something higher than nabuwwah......imamah.
TRIED according to the verse of the Quran on Ibrahim as is answered if you knew our hadiths, it’s easy to find, if not I will post it for you.
Those tests weren’t tests to reach a higher status my lil friend this is where you are having big problems explaining.
1.6 billion Muslims can’t see the imamah but only a fraction out of that say 200 mill,you included,for some odd reason CAN see it.😳
Ibrahim as was tried with tests and passed Alhamdulillah and His offspring were the children of Israel and Allah swt blessed them as we all know and what great leaders they were, He was the imam of them all a leader whom all the 3 sister faiths Islam/Christianity/Judaism look up to and is a great prophet and LEADER/imam for us, simple easy and understandable, we don’t need to delve on certain words to create a vague idea or theory, Alhamdulillah.
My God, the first and only decent post I've had from you without any insulting remarks, sarcastic comments and hardly any smiley faces. What an achievement. But I don't want to jinx it. So I won't say anything more and push my luck.
"SEE.......you are adding your own theory into it."
I'm not adding my theory to it. The matter is straightforward and in black and white. There's nothing you can add or subtract. I know it's going to be very difficult for you to agree and accept. I completely understand that.
Abraham was tried by his Lord. Now what was the reason for this? Surely there has to be a reason for it. He was already a Messenger and Prophet. But what happened when he succeeded, when he was successful in his trial? He was made an Imam of the people. It's just as simple as that. Nothing more and nothing less. And he asked for the same thing from his offsprings. You don't want to accept it then that's fine. But the matter is straightforward and crystal clear. Lets be honest with ourselves.
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SEE.......you are adding your own theory into it.
Indeed Ibrahim as was tried in His prophethood and fulfilled the commandments set by Allah swt, we agree with the verse, but He wasn’t tried so He can achieve a higher status, that’s just your theory you made up to prop up Imamate.
The problem starts when you ADD your own set of ideas into the verse, in no way does the verse insinuate after prophethood comes imamah apart from you using the word “tried” as if to insinuate it was a test to reach a higher status than prophethood.
Again you are using verses that have nothing to do with something higher than nabuwwah......imamah.
TRIED according to the verse of the Quran on Ibrahim as is answered if you knew our hadiths, it’s easy to find, if not I will post it for you.
Those tests weren’t tests to reach a higher status my lil friend this is where you are having big problems explaining.
1.6 billion Muslims can’t see the imamah but only a fraction out of that say 200 mill,you included,for some odd reason CAN see it.😳
Ibrahim as was tried with tests and passed Alhamdulillah and His offspring were the children of Israel and Allah swt blessed them as we all know and what great leaders they were, He was the imam of them all a leader whom all the 3 sister faiths Islam/Christianity/Judaism look up to and is a great prophet and LEADER/imam for us, simple easy and understandable, we don’t need to delve on certain words to create a vague idea or theory, Alhamdulillah.
"Indeed Ibrahim as was tried in His prophethood and fulfilled the commandments set by Allah swt, we agree with the verse, but He wasn’t tried so He can achieve a higher status, that’s just your theory you made up to prop up Imamate"
Your words, "but He wasn’t tried so he can achieve a higher status". But he was tried and when he was successful he was made an Imam of the people. But after he was tried and he became successful. This clearly tells that he wasn't an Imam before this. He was a Messenger and Prophet but not an Imam.
This is no joke. He was made an Imam after being tried and being successful. This proves clearly that there is such thing as Imamah. That was the question and here it is again, is there such thing as Imamah and does it exist in the Qur'an. In other words, is it mentioned in the Qur'an? The answer is, Absolutely and most definitely YES.
"TRIED according to the verse of the Quran on Ibrahim as is answered if you knew our hadiths, it’s easy to find, if not I will post it for you"
Please do post them to me. Thanks. That would be a great help.
"Those tests weren’t tests to reach a higher status my lil friend this is where you are having big problems explaining:
Higher status? That can be looked at and discussed. But one thing is clear that after being tried and being successful in that trial only then he was made an Imam.
Now you saying;
"Those tests weren’t tests to reach a higher status my lil friend this is where you are having big problems explaining"
Either I'm having problems explaining or your having problems understanding. Lets balance this and keep it fair.
"1.6 billion Muslims can’t see the imamah but only a fraction out of that say 200 mill,you included,for some odd reason CAN see it"
Yes I agree. But the problem with that 1.6 billion is the Sahaba, the Companions. A handful of companions took matter in their own hands based on the theory that the Prophet s.a.w did not name and appoint anyone to govern after him.
So being honest and going by this theory this is a very very important matter. And that is choosing a leader to govern the Muslims and their affairs. The reputation, character, honour and all the rest of it of these companions is on the line.
This is where the problem is for the 1.6 billion Muslims you mention. It's not that the 1.6 billion Muslims can’t see the imamah, it's they do see it but are having problems accepting it then trying to come to terms with it. If they do come anywhere near or close to seeing it then what do you think will happen about Saqifa? And the character and reputation of those involved and concerned?
"Ibrahim as was tried with tests and passed Alhamdulillah and His offspring were the children of Israel and Allah swt blessed them as we all know and what great leaders they were, He was the imam of them all a leader whom all the 3 sister faiths Islam/Christianity/Judaism look up to and is a great prophet and LEADER/imam for us, simple easy and understandable, we don’t need to delve on certain words to create a vague idea or theory, Alhamdulillah"
If it simple, easy and understandable as you put it and according to your theory then Allah wouldn’t have mentioned this because he was already a IMAM meaning LEADER to begin with. What was the whole point of the trial and being successful and only after that Allah making him an Imam of the people?
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What is that video about? Who took that footage etc etc. What ever seems to be bothering you put it forward and talk about it. Don't grudge about it.
Clearly, we have put forward the video and it bothers us in its entirety. Can you now proceed to condemn or condone its content (everything being preached by the Shi'i zakirs)?
Apart from everything else that's going on in this world and so many issues and matters that have so much importance, why give so much attention to this particular footage. And use it to try and paint a picture about the entire Shia faith and community?
You are a Shia! Does it not bother you that these men are preaching kufr in the name of Shiaism? Or do you consider their speech (and its content) acceptable? I am almost certain that it is the latter. You have now spent days on this topic without ever condemning its content. You have brought up issues going on in the world, the creator of the video, the one who collected the clips, etc, but not a word of condemnation.
Filth is what's been coming out of your mouth constantly and you haven't been warned about it let alone banned. Worry about yourself and don't let such a tiny clip end your life. Don't get too depressed over it.
....and you have endless advice for me but we are yet to see you condemn the kufr in the video. I will leave you alone if you condone or condemn the content of the video. Simple!
Yes I do ask my parents and would that be shirk according to you since you should call on Allah and not anyone else.
How would that be shirk, according to me, when I request my parents to pray for me all the time?
My parents are better than me. Did Umar call upon someone because he was better than Umar?
Umar (ra) called upon the uncle of the Prophet (saw) to pray for rain because of his nearness (in kin) to the Prophet (saw). The same uncle whom you dislike, and his son too! However, you have nothing but praises for the other uncle who never accepted Islam, the disbelieving "mu'min" who fathered your first "infallible" Imam (ra), lol.
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"Indeed Ibrahim as was tried in His prophethood and fulfilled the commandments set by Allah swt, we agree with the verse, but He wasn’t tried so He can achieve a higher status, that’s just your theory you made up to prop up Imamate"
Your words, "but He wasn’t tried so he can achieve a higher status". But he was tried and when he was successful he was made an Imam of the people. But after he was tried and he became successful. This clearly tells that he wasn't an Imam before this. He was a Messenger and Prophet but not an Imam.
Tried with what? You keep banging on about tried but what was the trial to achieve divine Imamate?
My friend imam is just a leader, Ibrahim as is remembered as a prophet FIRST and then Allah swt placed Him as an imam a leader, His tests according to His nabuwwah He had passed and Allah swt made him a leader after prophethood amongst His people without ANY divine power, unless the verse you quoted says so otherwise it’s a normal leadership you and I or anyone can attain.
Again you are pushing the idea of divine imams without clear enough evidence or are just desperately trying to explain something that is not clear.
This is no joke. He was made an Imam after being tried and being successful. This proves clearly that there is such thing as Imamah. That was the question and here it is again, is there such thing as Imamah and does it exist in the Qur'an. In other words, is it mentioned in the Qur'an? The answer is, Absolutely and most definitely YES.
He was made an imam. He definitely wasn’t a DIVINE imam, you know and I know and the Muslims who read the Quran KNOW THERE DEFINITELY ISNT NO DIVINE IMAM STATUS OR THEORY WITHIN THE QURAN..........hence you keep posting that 1 verse REPEATEDLY and add your own theory onto it why it is divine Imamate but not no normal Imamate.
You added the concept of promotion too which you cannot explain......yet, your answer is “it was up to Allah!”.
Come on😳
"Those tests weren’t tests to reach a higher status my lil friend this is where you are having big problems explaining:
Higher status? That can be looked at and discussed. But one thing is clear that after being tried and being successful in that trial only then he was made an Imam.
Now you saying;
"Those tests weren’t tests to reach a higher status my lil friend this is where you are having big problems explaining"
Either I'm having problems explaining or your having problems understanding. Lets balance this and keep it fair.
Personally I think it’s YOU who is having problems understanding YOUR own theory😄
The Shiites belief is, imams are higher than prophets.
Yes I agree. But the problem with that 1.6 billion is the Sahaba, the Companions. A handful of companions took matter in their own hands based on the theory that the Prophet s.a.w did not name and appoint anyone to govern after him.
So being honest and going by this theory this is a very very important matter. And that is choosing a leader to govern the Muslims and their affairs. The reputation, character, honour and all the rest of it of these companions is on the line.
This is where the problem is for the 1.6 billion Muslims you mention. It's not that the 1.6 billion Muslims can’t see the imamah, it's they do see it but are having problems accepting it then trying to come to terms with it. If they do come anywhere near or close to seeing it then what do you think will happen about Saqifa? And the character and reputation of those involved and concerned?
So a few men held the prophet saw’s religion hostage and wanted to rule and for 1400 years Allah swt has hidden the last imam made shiites unanswerable like yourself.......(PROMOTIONS!!) hid or secluded anything related to Imamate in the book made you the weakest out of all the ummah (look at Shiite history).
Yet the facts about them great leaders are completely opposite altogether.
Whom is a god fearing soul gonna believe? History or your say so?
DEFINITELY NOT YOU!!
If it simple, easy and understandable as you put it and according to your theory then Allah wouldn’t have mentioned this because he was already a IMAM meaning LEADER to begin with. What was the whole point of the trial and being successful and only after that Allah making him an Imam of the people?
Ibrahim as had a specific allocation given to him by Allah swt, which is that from his progeny will be all the prophets and from them - for Muslims - comes Muhammad saw.
Not imams of divine nature!
It’s that simple.
I STILL NEED YOU TO PROVIDE ME OF EVIDENCE THAT YOU KNEW MY INTENTIONS TO DERAIL AND DIVERT ATTENTION FROM YOUR THEORIES.......I ain’t gonna let you lie about me and walk away, either an apology or evidence will do.
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Tried with what? You keep banging on about tried but what was the trial to achieve divine Imamate?
My friend imam is just a leader, Ibrahim as is remembered as a prophet FIRST and then Allah swt placed Him as an imam a leader, His tests according to His nabuwwah He had passed and Allah swt made him a leader after prophethood amongst His people without ANY divine power, unless the verse you quoted says so otherwise it’s a normal leadership you and I or anyone can attain.
Again you are pushing the idea of divine imams without clear enough evidence or are just desperately trying to explain something that is not clear.
He was made an imam. He definitely wasn’t a DIVINE imam, you know and I know and the Muslims who read the Quran KNOW THERE DEFINITELY ISNT NO DIVINE IMAM STATUS OR THEORY WITHIN THE QURAN..........hence you keep posting that 1 verse REPEATEDLY and add your own theory onto it why it is divine Imamate but not no normal Imamate.
You added the concept of promotion too which you cannot explain......yet, your answer is “it was up to Allah!”.
Come on😳
Personally I think it’s YOU who is having problems understanding YOUR own theory😄
The Shiites belief is, imams are higher than prophets.
So a few men held the prophet saw’s religion hostage and wanted to rule and for 1400 years Allah swt has hidden the last imam made shiites unanswerable like yourself.......(PROMOTIONS!!) hid or secluded anything related to Imamate in the book made you the weakest out of all the ummah (look at Shiite history).
Yet the facts about them great leaders are completely opposite altogether.
Whom is a god fearing soul gonna believe? History or your say so?
DEFINITELY NOT YOU!!
Ibrahim as had a specific allocation given to him by Allah swt, which is that from his progeny will be all the prophets and from them - for Muslims - comes Muhammad saw.
Not imams of divine nature!
It’s that simple.
I STILL NEED YOU TO PROVIDE ME OF EVIDENCE THAT YOU KNEW MY INTENTIONS TO DERAIL AND DIVERT ATTENTION FROM YOUR THEORIES.......I ain’t gonna let you lie about me and walk away, either an apology or evidence will do.
"Tried with what? You keep banging on about tried but what was the trial to achieve divine Imamate?"
Calm down and relax. "Tried with what?" You wouldn't have asked me this if you were interested in the verses to begin with. Have you not read and studied the verses. I don't think you're bothered to even look into it. But anyways, here are the verses again;
"And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you an Imam for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."
"When Abraham was TRIED by his Lord WITH COMMANDS"
Read and look into this with an open mind. He was tried by his Lord. Why was he tried? Surely this means something and something is going on here. What happened next? "And he FULLFILLED them". Fullfilled what? Those COMMANDS.
What happened next? "Allah said, "Indeed, I will make you an Imam for the people". Allah said, not the Shias. Allah made him an Imam of the people, not the Shias. An Imam of the people which he clearly wasn't before this.
Now we can twist and turn the meaning of Imam from here to there according to our desire to mitigate such an important status and matter but the truth is the truth and it is right in front of us.
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Quran 17:71
[Mention, O Muhammad], the Day We will call forth every people with their Imam, then whoever is given his record in his right hand those will read their records, and injustice will not be done to them, [even] as much as a thread [inside the date seed].
Quran 2:124
[Mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you an Imam for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."
Have you noticed that both sets of verses start off with [Mention, O Muhammad].
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"Tried with what? You keep banging on about tried but what was the trial to achieve divine Imamate?"
Calm down and relax. "Tried with what?" You wouldn't have asked me this if you were interested in the verses to begin with. Have you not read and studied the verses. I don't think you're bothered to even look into it. But anyways, here are the verses again;
"And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you an Imam for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."
"When Abraham was TRIED by his Lord WITH COMMANDS"
Read and look into this with an open mind. He was tried by his Lord. Why was he tried? Surely this means something and something is going on here. What happened next? "And he FULLFILLED them". Fullfilled what? Those COMMANDS.
What happened next? "Allah said, "Indeed, I will make you an Imam for the people". Allah said, not the Shias. Allah made him an Imam of the people, not the Shias. An Imam of the people which he clearly wasn't before this.
Now we can twist and turn the meaning of Imam from here to there according to our desire to mitigate such an important status and matter but the truth is the truth and it is right in front of us.
what was the trial?
Allah swt said yes He will make Him an imam........Which He did become 👍
Allah swt DOESNT day He will be a .......DIVINE imam (Shiite version)!
Again you are TWISTING it to your own desires, stop it!
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Quran 17:71
[Mention, O Muhammad], the Day We will call forth every people with their Imam, then whoever is given his record in his right hand those will read their records, and injustice will not be done to them, [even] as much as a thread [inside the date seed].
Quran 2:124
[Mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you an Imam for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."
Have you noticed that both sets of verses start off with [Mention, O Muhammad].
Again here you are twisting the verses so you can make a case of divine Imamate even amongst the verses that have the word IMAM in there LOL.
1) Allah swt is NOT talking about a divine imam😂😂😂
Here this will put it in perspective
[Mention, O Muhammad], the Day We will call forth every people with their record [of deeds]. Then whoever is given his record in his right hand - those will read their records, and injustice will not be done to them, [even] as much as a thread [inside the date seed].
So you gonna recieve your divine imam from your right hand?😉👍
2) ALREADY ANSWERED AND DEBUNKED..........move on!
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Could you please provide evidence of me derailing any threads, you seem to know peoples intentions like as if you are divine.
Either apologise or bring forth your evidence unless you was lying just to look good.
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what was the trial?
Allah swt said yes He will make Him an imam........Which He did become 👍
Allah swt DOESNT day He will be a .......DIVINE imam (Shiite version)!
Again you are TWISTING it to your own desires, stop it!
"what was the trial?"
COMMANDS! Allah tried him with commands. That's what Allah said. Not me or the Shia community. Now what commands, how and in what way and method was he tried, I guess we'll ask Allah when we see him 😊
"Allah swt said yes He will make Him an imam........Which He did become"
He did become but after he was tried and not before.
"Allah swt DOESNT day He will be a .......DIVINE imam (Shiite version)!"
Did Allah say that he made him an Imam but not a divine one? 😊
He was a Messenger and a Prophet. Both titles are divine. Then he was made an Imam but excluding divinity? Where did you come up with this explanation? He was divine already 😊
Can you show or tell me anywhere in the Qur'an where Allah has said he made so and so a prophet and divine as well? Then one can question why divine or divinity wasn't mentioned here but was mentioned over there.
"Again you are TWISTING it to your own desires, stop it!"
Nope. You're finding it hard to accept. You're looking for excuses. And you're raising questions based on those excuses.
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Again here you are twisting the verses so you can make a case of divine Imamate even amongst the verses that have the word IMAM in there LOL.
1) Allah swt is NOT talking about a divine imam😂😂😂
Here this will put it in perspective
[Mention, O Muhammad], the Day We will call forth every people with their record [of deeds]. Then whoever is given his record in his right hand - those will read their records, and injustice will not be done to them, [even] as much as a thread [inside the date seed].
So you gonna recieve your divine imam from your right hand?😉👍
2) ALREADY ANSWERED AND DEBUNKED..........move on!
The word IMAM has been used. Be it IMAM here or WALI over there, the Ahle Sunnah twist and turn the meanings to mitigate the verses and matters. It's time to be honest with yourselves. Saqifa has taken the honesty away from you. Infact it's taken a lot away from you and left you in dark and all confused.
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Could you please provide evidence of me derailing any threads, you seem to know peoples intentions like as if you are divine.
Either apologise or bring forth your evidence unless you was lying just to look good.
My pleasure! Your post #15;
"I swear by Allah swt YOU could NEVER provide a CLEAR verse on divine imamah and could NEVER answer your own theory........PROMOTIONS!!!
You can crawl back in your crack where you came from and enjoy living it there and feel pleased with yourself, the truth to you is a bitter pill to swallow"
Now you be honest with yourself and tell me what the title of this thread is? And what have you brought in?
DIVINE IMAMAH.
Would you like me to provide more evidence. And it's not just you.
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The word IMAM has been used. Be it IMAM here or WALI over there, the Ahle Sunnah twist and turn the meanings to mitigate the verses and matters. It's time to be honest with yourselves. Saqifa has taken the honesty away from you. Infact it's taken a lot away from you and left you in dark and all confused.
As EXPECTED you couldn’t explain your stance CLEARLY after I exposed your loopholes it all ends with.........SAQIFA😂😂👍
Alhamdulillah
I KNEW IT😉
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My pleasure! Your post #15;
"I swear by Allah swt YOU could NEVER provide a CLEAR verse on divine imamah and could NEVER answer your own theory........PROMOTIONS!!!
You can crawl back in your crack where you came from and enjoy living it there and feel pleased with yourself, the truth to you is a bitter pill to swallow"
Now you be honest with yourself and tell me what the title of this thread is? And what have you brought in?
DIVINE IMAMAH.
Would you like me to provide more evidence. And it's not just you.
Your such a dense individual honestly
You stated my intention was to “DERAIL AND DIVERT”
That remark of mine was my intention to derail thread? How?
I know you can’t provide proof of divine Imamate or your promotion theory it’s been dealt with and put to bed,READ THE POSTS as for the remarks afterwards that is you come from the dark you might as well stay in the dark how does that equate to having intentions of derailing the thread?
False accusations?
You really need to READ properly.
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The word IMAM has been used. Be it IMAM here or WALI over there, the Ahle Sunnah twist and turn the meanings to mitigate the verses and matters. It's time to be honest with yourselves. Saqifa has taken the honesty away from you. Infact it's taken a lot away from you and left you in dark and all confused.
Thankyou so this verse with the word IMAM is for your divine imams also?
And we made them Imams who call to the fire and on the day of Qiyamat they shall not be assisted. And we caused a curse to follow them in this world, and on the day of Qiyamat they shall be of those made to appear hideous. (Surah Qasas 28:41-42)
Like shiites won’t twist and turn the meanings to mitigate the verses and matters.😉
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Now you be honest with yourself and tell me what the title of this thread is? And what have you brought in?
DIVINE IMAMAH.
Would you like me to provide more evidence. And it's not just you.
I wonder which individual derailed the thread on questions for Shiites?
You started on Muslim 720 just because he was honest and attended your majlis and was genuine to learn which he did and made him better understand your side, you barged in and derailed it with your nonsense.
All clear to see on the thread named “question for shia”.
4 pages and they are filled with an obtuse individual who won’t believe what a genuine poster experienced..........so much hate, I wonder why?
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You started on Muslim 720 just because he was honest and attended your majlis and was genuine to learn which he did and made him better understand your side, you barged in and derailed it with your nonsense.
There is so much blame-game in their masaajid. After a while, it starts getting mundane. Even Friday sermons are not spared from mentions of "Saudi Arabia", "corrupt leaders", this one, that one....come on!
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As EXPECTED you couldn’t explain your stance CLEARLY after I exposed your loopholes it all ends with.........SAQIFA😂😂👍
Alhamdulillah
I KNEW IT😉
It begins with Saqifa and ends with Saqifa. If it wasn't for Saqifa we wouldn’t have this difference within the Ummah. And we wouldn't be a divided nation in a mess.
Our stance is clear. Your religion begins with Muhammad s.a.w and ends with him. After Muhammad s.a.w you have nothing absolute, clear, sure and firm. Our religion beings with Muhammad s.a.w and carries on from Muhammad s.a.w. We have something, absolute, clear, sure and firm.
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There is so much blame-game in their masaajid. After a while, it starts getting mundane. Even Friday sermons are not spared from mentions of "Saudi Arabia", "corrupt leaders", this one, that one....come on!
Which Masjid did you go to. If I want to know and learn about the Americans and I visit and engage with the Ku Klux klan (KKK) would that give me a complete picture about the Americans and how they are.
If I want to know and learn about the British and I visit and engage with either the BNP or the National Front would that give me a complete picture about the British and how they are.
If I want to know and learn about Islam and the Muslims and I visit and engage with ISIS would that give me a complete and absolute picture about Islam and the Muslims and how they are.
Come on, you know what I mean. You're not dumb. 😊
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I wonder which individual derailed the thread on questions for Shiites?
You started on Muslim 720 just because he was honest and attended your majlis and was genuine to learn which he did and made him better understand your side, you barged in and derailed it with your nonsense.
All clear to see on the thread named “question for shia”.
4 pages and they are filled with an obtuse individual who won’t believe what a genuine poster experienced..........so much hate, I wonder why?
You're siding and speaking so highly and in defense of Muslim 720, well that's obvious. You obviously would. 😊 Sunni siding with a Sunni doesn't equal honesty.
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Thankyou so this verse with the word IMAM is for your divine imams also?
And we made them Imams who call to the fire and on the day of Qiyamat they shall not be assisted. And we caused a curse to follow them in this world, and on the day of Qiyamat they shall be of those made to appear hideous. (Surah Qasas 28:41-42)
Like shiites won’t twist and turn the meanings to mitigate the verses and matters.😉
Thanks for putting that forward. IMAMAH DOES EXIST IN THE QUR'AN AND ALLAH MAKES IMAMS. We've proven this together. 😀
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Which Masjid did you go to.
1. Manassas mosque in Manassas, Virginia
2. Islamic Education Center in Potomac, Maryland
3. Imam Ali Center in Springfield, Virginia
Google them! If you know anyone in the DC Metropolitan area who has been to those mosques, you can confirm these mosques with them. In fact, if you want, I will give you detailed description of the interior of those masaajid for you to confirm with them.
If I want to know and learn about the Americans and I visit and engage with the Ku Klux klan (KKK) would that give me a complete picture about the Americans and how they are.
While I am certain that you would pull off such a dumb move, I did not do that. To confirm what I read about Shias online, I visited their own mosques.
If I want to know and learn about the British and I visit and engage with either the BNP or the National Front would that give me a complete picture about the British and how they are.
Wouldn't be surprised if you actually do that!
If I want to know and learn about Islam and the Muslims and I visit and engage with ISIS would that give me a complete and absolute picture about Islam and the Muslims and how they are.
You have done this extensively. The mere fact that you keep bringing them up proves that, to some degree, you associate them with orthodox Sunni Islam.
Come on, you know what I mean. You're not dumb. 😊
I know what you mean but seeing your irrelevant analogies, I'm almost certain that you would actually do all these things (you have mentioned).
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It begins with Saqifa and ends with Saqifa. If it wasn't for Saqifa we wouldn’t have this difference within the Ummah. And we wouldn't be a divided nation in a mess.
Our stance is clear. Your religion begins with Muhammad s.a.w and ends with him. After Muhammad s.a.w you have nothing absolute, clear, sure and firm. Our religion beings with Muhammad s.a.w and carries on from Muhammad s.a.w. We have something, absolute, clear, sure and firm.
No it’s not saqifa it’s your theory of divine Imamate that’s the problem.
That divine you added we keep saying and saying is the problem and still now after many posts on different threads you still haven’t proven it, the rest is your own conclusions about us having nothing clear........we have saqifa which is clear enough and it happened.
It hurts we know.😉
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You're siding and speaking so highly and in defense of Muslim 720, well that's obvious. You obviously would. 😊 Sunni siding with a Sunni doesn't equal honesty.
No it equals brotherhood AND honesty, I trust my brother I haven’t any doubt as to why he would lie and keep the lie up for so long, you are again just looking for excuses and a way out as you cannot accept that fact.
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Thanks for putting that forward. IMAMAH DOES EXIST IN THE QUR'AN AND ALLAH MAKES IMAMS. We've proven this together. 😀
Yes but you keep adding a new concept of divinity to them, Allah swt does make imams yes humans like us without divine powers.
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No it’s not saqifa it’s your theory of divine Imamate that’s the problem.
That divine you added we keep saying and saying is the problem and still now after many posts on different threads you still haven’t proven it, the rest is your own conclusions about us having nothing clear........we have saqifa which is clear enough and it happened.
It hurts we know.😉
"No it’s not saqifa it’s your theory of divine Imamate that’s the problem"
Anything from Allah and or his Messenger is never a problem and never has been. The problem is Saqifa. And its foundation is on the fiction that the Prophet s.a.w never bothered to name and appoint someone to govern after him. We completely disagree and believe that this is ridiculous.
On the other hand lets say it was left to the Ummah and through Shura then Saqifa doesn't fit this either. I've said this numerous times before and no one can touch this, Saqifa wasn't a public assembly or a public event where important and concerned personalities gathered to select a leader for the Ummah through means and process of Shura.
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No it equals brotherhood AND honesty, I trust my brother I haven’t any doubt as to why he would lie and keep the lie up for so long, you are again just looking for excuses and a way out as you cannot accept that fact.
People say a lot of things to try and convince others. All I'm saying is the stories he's putting forward based on his experience have no credibility, be it him or me about Sunni Mosques. Anyone can make up such claims. And surely you would accept and agree with him. If this was me instead of him there would be absolutely nothing you would agree on.
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Yes but you keep adding a new concept of divinity to them, Allah swt does make imams yes humans like us without divine powers.
I don't add anything. You're having problems accepting. And I absolutely understand why. Allah gives knowledge, authority and miraculous powers to whom ever he desires. And for various tests and reasons.
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No it’s not saqifa it’s your theory of divine Imamate that’s the problem.
That divine you added we keep saying and saying is the problem and still now after many posts on different threads you still haven’t proven it, the rest is your own conclusions about us having nothing clear........we have saqifa which is clear enough and it happened.
It hurts we know.😉
"That divine you added we keep saying and saying is the problem"
I don't add anything. If I was there and the Prophet s.a.w asked for a pen and paper I would absolutely and most definitely without a shadow of a doubt give it to him or ask for it to be given. I wouldn't add anything from myself for example
"He is delirious, there is no need for it, we have the book of Allah and that is enough for us".
Criticise and condemn the one who added and obstructed. I've proven it many times over but defending Saqifa and protecting the Shaykhain is your prime concern. I understand. Oh yes, Saqifa is very clear and it did happen. It isn't justified nor legitimate. It was a coincidence and the decision accidental.
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1. Manassas mosque in Manassas, Virginia
2. Islamic Education Center in Potomac, Maryland
3. Imam Ali Center in Springfield, Virginia
Google them! If you know anyone in the DC Metropolitan area who has been to those mosques, you can confirm these mosques with them. In fact, if you want, I will give you detailed description of the interior of those masaajid for you to confirm with them.
While I am certain that you would pull off such a dumb move, I did not do that. To confirm what I read about Shias online, I visited their own mosques.
Wouldn't be surprised if you actually do that!
You have done this extensively. The mere fact that you keep bringing them up proves that, to some degree, you associate them with orthodox Sunni Islam.
I know what you mean but seeing your irrelevant analogies, I'm almost certain that you would actually do all these things (you have mentioned).
"I know what you mean but seeing your irrelevant analogies"
I'm not surprised. There is nothing relevant, positive, right and good about me when it comes to you.
"I'm almost certain that you would actually do all these things (you have mentioned)"
You don't see me going around posting clips about terror activities and atrocities then claiming that this is what Sunnis are all about.
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"1. Manassas mosque in Manassas, Virginia
2. Islamic Education Center in Potomac, Maryland
3. Imam Ali Center in Springfield, Virginia"
Is that it? You've visited three mosques and you want to paint a picture on that about the entire Shia community worldwide?
"Google them! If you know anyone in the DC Metropolitan area who has been to those mosques, you can confirm these mosques with them. In fact, if you want, I will give you detailed description of the interior of those masaajid for you to confirm with them"
That's fine. All I'm saying is your stories about your experience aren't credible. They can't be backed up. It's your word. Exactly the same would apply to me if I was in your place. Do you understand. I'm not calling you a liar. Sometimes you see, hear or experience something but it's hard to back up, be it me or you. I would say the same if it was a Shia about Sunni Mosques.
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You don't see me going around posting clips about terror activities and atrocities then claiming that this is what Sunnis are all about.
The fact that you keep bringing it up, or keep mentioning Al-Baghdadi, etc, is an indication that you already correlate the two.
Is that it? You've visited three mosques and you want to paint a picture on that about the entire Shia community worldwide?
How many Sunni mosques you, or those Shias who criticize Sunni Islam, have visited? Three mosques, scattered in two different states, being periodically visited over a span of six years and I still cannot report as an eyewitness.
The reality of it is that you won't dare set foot in a Sunni mosque being yourself. I, on the other hand, have not only held my own but refuted your kind. Openly!
That's fine. All I'm saying is your stories about your experience aren't credible. They can't be backed up. It's your word. Exactly the same would apply to me if I was in your place. Do you understand. I'm not calling you a liar.
I am not a liar but my experience and words lack credibility. #ShiaLogic
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Moderators, please delete this post!
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"No it’s not saqifa it’s your theory of divine Imamate that’s the problem"
Anything from Allah and or his Messenger is never a problem and never has been. The problem is Saqifa. And its foundation is on the fiction that the Prophet s.a.w never bothered to name and appoint someone to govern after him. We completely disagree and believe that this is ridiculous.
On the other hand lets say it was left to the Ummah and through Shura then Saqifa doesn't fit this either. I've said this numerous times before and no one can touch this, Saqifa wasn't a public assembly or a public event where important and concerned personalities gathered to select a leader for the Ummah through means and process of Shura.
The main PROBLEM is Allah swt and His messenger saw NEVER mentioned such and hence your REPETITIVE posts devoid of evidence relating to such divine concept.
I know I know you keep on about saqifa.......like I said saqifa is a living reality, can’t say much for divine Imamate, it must hurt so bad.😉👍
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People say a lot of things to try and convince others. All I'm saying is the stories he's putting forward based on his experience have no credibility, be it him or me about Sunni Mosques. Anyone can make up such claims. And surely you would accept and agree with him. If this was me instead of him there would be absolutely nothing you would agree on.
You are making false judgements based on your thinking DEVOID of any proof or evidence as is the case with your divine Imamate arguments.
Bro muslim720 has no credibility because you say so.😄
He has posted shiite mosques he attended much more believable than you just talking TRASH.
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I don't add anything. You're having problems accepting. And I absolutely understand why. Allah gives knowledge, authority and miraculous powers to whom ever he desires. And for various tests and reasons.
Yes.......but......where is that divine authority clearly mentioned??
You keep posting verses and explain your way of thinking but it doesn’t fit in with the verses posted, it’s no good making assumptions based on flimsy explanations.
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"That divine you added we keep saying and saying is the problem"
I don't add anything. If I was there and the Prophet s.a.w asked for a pen and paper I would absolutely and most definitely without a shadow of a doubt give it to him or ask for it to be given. I wouldn't add anything from myself for example
"He is delirious, there is no need for it, we have the book of Allah and that is enough for us".
Criticise and condemn the one who added and obstructed. I've proven it many times over but defending Saqifa and protecting the Shaykhain is your prime concern. I understand. Oh yes, Saqifa is very clear and it did happen. It isn't justified nor legitimate. It was a coincidence and the decision accidental.
Talk about jumping from topics and YOU are the main culprit for it.😂😂😂👍
So that divinity Umar ra stopped it and we should blame him?
What are you talking about? Why have you jumped to a different topic?
I know I know hate is your key feature and it shows how you will change topics Because you cannot prove what I asked for.
Come on.
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Yes.......but......where is that divine authority clearly mentioned??
Where is promotion concept you thought of gone?
Your answer it’s up to Allah swt doesn’t really work.
You keep posting verses and explain your way of thinking but it doesn’t fit in with the verses posted, it’s no good making assumptions based on flimsy explanations.
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The fact that you keep bringing it up, or keep mentioning Al-Baghdadi, etc, is an indication that you already correlate the two.
How many Sunni mosques you, or those Shias who criticize Sunni Islam, have visited? Three mosques, scattered in two different states, being periodically visited over a span of six years and I still cannot report as an eyewitness.
The reality of it is that you won't dare set foot in a Sunni mosque being yourself. I, on the other hand, have not only held my own but refuted your kind. Openly!
I am not a liar but my experience and words lack credibility. #ShiaLogic
"The fact that you keep bringing it up, or keep mentioning Al-Baghdadi, etc, is an indication that you already correlate the two"
If we go on the Internet and start taking footage or various clips about Sunnis engaging in this, that and the other and try to paint an absolute and complete picture that this is what the entire Ahle Sunnah are all about just on that specific footage, knowing the fact that the Ahle Sunnah exist and come from different parts of the world, countries, cities, towns, villages and from different tribes and sects and they do things differently by commemorating and or celebrating then this would be nothing but PROPAGANDA against the Sunnis. This is exactly what we're facing. Get it. This is my point.
"How many Sunni mosques you, or those Shias who criticize Sunni Islam, have visited?"
Plenty my friend plenty. I listen to lectures from Sunni Scholars and engage in Sunni books. I come from a mixed community and relations. But I'm not a PROPAGANDIST. That's the difference. I don't have a grudge and I am not full of hatred. And then I don't go saying and behaving according this way.
"Three mosques, scattered in two different states, being periodically visited over a span of six years and I still cannot report as an eyewitness"
Yes you can and by all means. But what you report is what needs to be looked at an examined. You expect us or people to take things at face value?
"The reality of it is that you won't dare set foot in a Sunni mosque being yourself"
This is arrogance. You seem to know better and claim as though you know it all. Never mind about Sunni Mosques, I've been to Church, Gurdwara and temples my friend. And you talk about just Sunni mosques.
They (Sunni Mosques) have a problem to see me there. Not me. They turn heads and frown because of me being different and they knowing me based on gossip, tales and rumours.
"I am not a liar but my experience and words lack credibility. #ShiaLogic"
I didn't say you were lying. All I said was anyone can come up with what you're saying. And it doesn't have credibility because it's just your saying backed and supported by nothing. It would be the same vice versa.
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If we go on the Internet and start taking footage or various clips about Sunnis engaging in this, that and the other and try to paint an absolute and complete picture that this is what the entire Ahle Sunnah are all about just on that specific footage, knowing the fact that the Ahle Sunnah exist and come from different parts of the world, countries, cities, towns, villages and from different tribes and sects and they do things differently by commemorating and or celebrating then this would be nothing but PROPAGANDA against the Sunnis.
I understand that it is different than collecting sample clips from inside the Sunni mosques. Without going deeper into the matter, why haven't you distanced yourself from these zakirs and their kufr? We got your point! The "evil" Sunnis must have fabricated these videos. But why can't you condemn the content of the video?
This is exactly what we're facing. Get it. This is my point.
I got it! Go ahead and condemn the content of the video.
Plenty my friend plenty. I listen to lectures from Sunni Scholars and engage in Sunni books. I come from a mixed community and relations. But I'm not a PROPAGANDIST. That's the difference.
Plenty! Quite an anecdote.
I don't have a grudge and I am not full of hatred. And then I don't go saying and behaving according this way.
Don't give a damn what you are and what you hold. You cannot defend your theology for a minute.
Yes you can and by all means. But what you report is what needs to be looked at an examined. You expect us or people to take things at face value?
Let us start with the mosques. Do you know anyone who can verify those mosques and their existence? Once you do that, I will give you more pieces of information which will absolutely substantiate everything I have said.
You cannot even authenticate or weaken your own ahaadith and you want me to believe that you have the capability to investigate my life, lol!
This is arrogance. You seem to know better and claim as though you know it all. Never mind about Sunni Mosques, I've been to Church, Gurdwara and temples my friend. And you talk about just Sunni mosques.
Since I see no condemnation from you for the filth spoken in the video, I am sure you feel at home when you go to Churches, Temples and Gurudwaras!
They (Sunni Mosques) have a problem to see me there. Not me. They turn heads and frown because of me being different and they knowing me based on gossip, tales and rumours.
I am glad others share the same sentiment I have towards you, lol!
I didn't say you were lying. All I said was anyone can come up with what you're saying. And it doesn't have credibility because it's just your saying backed and supported by nothing. It would be the same vice versa.
Do you even know that the sure way to lose credibility is to lie?
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I understand that it is different than collecting sample clips from inside the Sunni mosques. Without going deeper into the matter, why haven't you distanced yourself from these zakirs and their kufr? We got your point! The "evil" Sunnis must have fabricated these videos. But why can't you condemn the content of the video?
I got it! Go ahead and condemn the content of the video.
Plenty! Quite an anecdote.
Don't give a damn what you are and what you hold. You cannot defend your theology for a minute.
Let us start with the mosques. Do you know anyone who can verify those mosques and their existence? Once you do that, I will give you more pieces of information which will absolutely substantiate everything I have said.
You cannot even authenticate or weaken your own ahaadith and you want me to believe that you have the capability to investigate my life, lol!
Since I see no condemnation from you for the filth spoken in the video, I am sure you feel at home when you go to Churches, Temples and Gurudwaras!
I am glad others share the same sentiment I have towards you, lol!
Do you even know that the sure way to lose credibility is to lie?
"I understand that it is different than collecting sample clips from inside the Sunni mosques. Without going deeper into the matter, why haven't you distanced yourself from these zakirs and their kufr? We got your point! The "evil" Sunnis must have fabricated these videos. But why can't you condemn the content of the video?"
How much have you done to distance yourself and to come out and severely criticise and condemn those who commit terror offences and I mean terrible offences and atrocities in the name of Islam and being Muslims and they claim to be Ahle Sunnah? Can you show me how much you have done or those who spend so much time and effort on refuting Shias?
Or how much has the Ahle Sunnah community at large done to distance themselves from these groups, parties and organisations who are involved in terror activities and commit such terrible offences and atrocities in the name of Islam and being Sunnis? Can anyone step forward and tell me.
You're banging on about Kufr from a silly clip someone has took God knows from where and how and when and why, and you're jumping up and down about it as though there's no tomorrow, what about those clips and videos that are absolutely genuine and are full of horror, carried out by Sunnis in the name of Islam?
You definitely need to get your priorities in order.
"Don't give a damn what you are and what you hold. You cannot defend your theology for a minute"
Oh Yeh, is that why you're jumping up and down about it for the past 1400 years. And it hasn't got you anywhere, apart from being all twisted and screwed up with hatred and grudge.
"Let us start with the mosques. Do you know anyone who can verify those mosques and their existence? Once you do that, I will give you more pieces of information which will absolutely substantiate everything I have said"
Verifying those mosques has got nothing to do with it. What you need to verify is your tales and stories. Speak about your experience on what you've witnessed and I will tell you how true and exact it is. Or get it confirmed.
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How much have you done to distance yourself and to come out and severely criticise and condemn those who commit terror offences and I mean terrible offences and atrocities in the name of Islam and being Muslims and they claim to be Ahle Sunnah?
Far more than you can imagine. Before I get to its details, now is your chance to do the same and rescue your school. Why do you find it hard to condemn the kufr uttered in these videos?
Can you show me how much you have done or those who spend so much time and effort on refuting Shias?
It is a habit that you develop. Prior to learning about different sects within Islam, I was heavily involved in Muslim-Christian dawah. Our neighborhood is full of Muslim families and there was a time when we would have missionaries show up on a weekly basis. Fast-forward to present day, not a single one - unless new to the city - dares show up.
So here is your chance to do the same. All these posts and we have yet to read one condemning statement from your side. Why is this so hard for you?
Or how much has the Ahle Sunnah community at large done to distance themselves from these groups, parties and organisations who are involved in terror activities and commit such terrible offences and atrocities in the name of Islam and being Sunnis? Can anyone step forward and tell me.
The difference between me and you is that you have your eyes closed and you want others to show you objects around the room. Open your eyes! Fly to Washington DC - I can book you Airbnb or a hotel room - and let me take you from one organization to the next not just meeting your requirements but exceeding them. Talk is cheap but here is your chance, once again, to give yourself some credibility. Condemn the kufr uttered in the video and set a clear distance between your school and what is being preached in its name.
You're banging on about Kufr from a silly clip someone has took God knows from where and how and when and why, and you're jumping up and down about it as though there's no tomorrow
Why do the "where", "how", "when" and "why" matter? I see no one being compelled or forced to say all that. For the sake of honesty and consistency, can you condemn the video?
what about those clips and videos that are absolutely genuine and are full of horror, carried out by Sunnis in the name of Islam?
May Allah's (swt) curse be upon those Sunnis who violate the Qur'an and Sunnah by taking, or harming, innocent lives. Now, your turn.
You definitely need to get your priorities in order.
No, you need to get your priorities straight, you pathetic imbecile! Shirk is the biggest sin in Islam; murder comes after. I condemned every Sunni murdering innocent human beings for the reason that they commit the second biggest sin in Islam. You cannot even distance yourself from people who invite others to shirk - the biggest sin in Islam - in the name of your religion, let alone condemn or curse them.
Oh Yeh, is that why you're jumping up and down about it for the past 1400 years. And it hasn't got you anywhere, apart from being all twisted and screwed up with hatred and grudge.
You have reminded us of this multiple times. We got your point and you can plaster this as your core creedal belief on your forehead. With so many statements issued by you, we are awaiting one, just one, to condemn the kufr in the video.
Speak about your experience on what you've witnessed and I will tell you how true and exact it is. Or get it confirmed.
Wait, you want me to tell you my experiences and things I have witnessed and you will determine how true and exact they are? What sort of junk do you feed your mind for it to produce such irrational statements and/or suggestions? Seriously, you need time off from all the head banging.
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Far more than you can imagine. Before I get to its details, now is your chance to do the same and rescue your school. Why do you find it hard to condemn the kufr uttered in these videos?
It is a habit that you develop. Prior to learning about different sects within Islam, I was heavily involved in Muslim-Christian dawah. Our neighborhood is full of Muslim families and there was a time when we would have missionaries show up on a weekly basis. Fast-forward to present day, not a single one - unless new to the city - dares show up.
So here is your chance to do the same. All these posts and we have yet to read one condemning statement from your side. Why is this so hard for you?
The difference between me and you is that you have your eyes closed and you want others to show you objects around the room. Open your eyes! Fly to Washington DC - I can book you Airbnb or a hotel room - and let me take you from one organization to the next not just meeting your requirements but exceeding them. Talk is cheap but here is your chance, once again, to give yourself some credibility. Condemn the kufr uttered in the video and set a clear distance between your school and what is being preached in its name.
Why do the "where", "how", "when" and "why" matter? I see no one being compelled or forced to say all that. For the sake of honesty and consistency, can you condemn the video?
May Allah's (swt) curse be upon those Sunnis who violate the Qur'an and Sunnah by taking, or harming, innocent lives. Now, your turn.
No, you need to get your priorities straight, you pathetic imbecile! Shirk is the biggest sin in Islam; murder comes after. I condemned every Sunni murdering innocent human beings for the reason that they commit the second biggest sin in Islam. You cannot even distance yourself from people who invite others to shirk - the biggest sin in Islam - in the name of your religion, let alone condemn or curse them.
You have reminded us of this multiple times. We got your point and you can plaster this as your core creedal belief on your forehead. With so many statements issued by you, we are awaiting one, just one, to condemn the kufr in the video.
Wait, you want me to tell you my experiences and things I have witnessed and you will determine how true and exact they are? What sort of junk do you feed your mind for it to produce such irrational statements and/or suggestions? Seriously, you need time off from all the head banging.
"Far more than you can imagine"
Ok, tell me. Show me.
"Before I get to its details"
Don't look for excuses.
"now is your chance to do the same and rescue your school"
My school needs to be rescued from the propaganda that is being spread against it, just like the two videos that have been created by being put together for propaganda purposes. And I'm already on the rescue.
"Why do you find it hard to condemn the kufr uttered in these videos?"
I've said this before and I'll post you where I've said it. Talk about the context in the video that's bothering you and tell me why you see it as Kufr. TALK ABOUT IT, DON'T GRUDGE ABOUT IT!
"So here is your chance to do the same. All these posts and we have yet to read one condemning statement from your side. Why is this so hard for you?"
Explain to me what needs to be criticised and condemned and why? I condemn the entire footage which has been created and designed for propaganda purposes.
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Far more than you can imagine. Before I get to its details, now is your chance to do the same and rescue your school. Why do you find it hard to condemn the kufr uttered in these videos?
It is a habit that you develop. Prior to learning about different sects within Islam, I was heavily involved in Muslim-Christian dawah. Our neighborhood is full of Muslim families and there was a time when we would have missionaries show up on a weekly basis. Fast-forward to present day, not a single one - unless new to the city - dares show up.
So here is your chance to do the same. All these posts and we have yet to read one condemning statement from your side. Why is this so hard for you?
The difference between me and you is that you have your eyes closed and you want others to show you objects around the room. Open your eyes! Fly to Washington DC - I can book you Airbnb or a hotel room - and let me take you from one organization to the next not just meeting your requirements but exceeding them. Talk is cheap but here is your chance, once again, to give yourself some credibility. Condemn the kufr uttered in the video and set a clear distance between your school and what is being preached in its name.
Why do the "where", "how", "when" and "why" matter? I see no one being compelled or forced to say all that. For the sake of honesty and consistency, can you condemn the video?
May Allah's (swt) curse be upon those Sunnis who violate the Qur'an and Sunnah by taking, or harming, innocent lives. Now, your turn.
No, you need to get your priorities straight, you pathetic imbecile! Shirk is the biggest sin in Islam; murder comes after. I condemned every Sunni murdering innocent human beings for the reason that they commit the second biggest sin in Islam. You cannot even distance yourself from people who invite others to shirk - the biggest sin in Islam - in the name of your religion, let alone condemn or curse them.
You have reminded us of this multiple times. We got your point and you can plaster this as your core creedal belief on your forehead. With so many statements issued by you, we are awaiting one, just one, to condemn the kufr in the video.
Wait, you want me to tell you my experiences and things I have witnessed and you will determine how true and exact they are? What sort of junk do you feed your mind for it to produce such irrational statements and/or suggestions? Seriously, you need time off from all the head banging.
"The difference between me and you is that you have your eyes closed and you want others to show you objects around the room"
Always assuming things, aren't you. You think you know it all. Your problem is that you want people to take what you say at face value. All I'm saying is what ever you say about me or my community, I know you don't. It's just as simple as that.
"Fly to Washington DC - I can book you Airbnb or a hotel room - and let me take you from one organization to the next not just meeting your requirements but exceeding them"
You don't need to book me anything. What you can't do here you won't be able to do over there. You're failing miserably here, what on earth are you going to do over there. You're all talk.
"Talk is cheap"
Yes it is. That's all that seems to be coming from you.
"but here is your chance, once again, to give yourself some credibility"
You're the one making the claims about my faith, mosques and community. Credibility is something you need. Back yourself up boy.
"Condemn the kufr uttered in the video and set a clear distance between your school and what is being preached in its name"
Define KUFR for me. And tell me about the kufr in the propaganda footage that was created and designed. Talk about it, don't grudge about it.
"Why do the "where", "how", "when" and "why" matter? I see no one being compelled or forced to say all that. For the sake of honesty and consistency, can you condemn the video?"
I condemn the entire footage and those who created and designed it for propaganda purposes. It's been put together for nothing but propaganda. The entire video is on that.
You want me to condemn only the bits and pieces of the footage you want. OK, I'll take you up on that. Why? Kufr? What Kufr? Talk to me. Don't hide behind the word Kufr.
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Ok, tell me. Show me.
Can you see halfway around the world? For someone who cannot meet a simple demand (to condemn kufr), you have some ludicrous demands of your own.
Don't look for excuses.
Excuses for what? If you come here, I'll take you to more organizations than you can count that condemns everything you have stated.
My school needs to be rescued from the propaganda that is being spread against it, just like the two videos that have been created by being put together for propaganda purposes.
Are you saying that the videos are edited and tampered with?
You say you have been to many Sunni mosques. Name me one thing you heard that borders kufr. One!
And I'm already on the rescue.
We can see how vociferously you are defending kufr. Precisely why some of us make takfeer on your school. All these posts, all these red-herrings from you but not a single direct phrase of condemnation.
I've said this before and I'll post you where I've said it. Talk about the context in the video that's bothering you and tell me why you see it as Kufr. TALK ABOUT IT, DON'T GRUDGE ABOUT IT!
What is there to talk about? What context? Is there anything you can add to these statements that would dilute the message?
Explain to me what needs to be criticised and condemned and why? I condemn the entire footage which has been created and designed for propaganda purposes.
What about the content?
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Always assuming things, aren't you. You think you know it all. Your problem is that you want people to take what you say at face value. All I'm saying is what ever you say about me or my community, I know you don't. It's just as simple as that.
It is not what we are saying; it is what your own zakirs are saying.
You don't need to book me anything. What you can't do here you won't be able to do over there. You're failing miserably here, what on earth are you going to do over there. You're all talk.
You ask me to prove something but won't even allow me to. Then why ask for proof? Idiot much?
You're the one making the claims about my faith, mosques and community. Credibility is something you need. Back yourself up boy.
You have not even heard half of it and you are shivering in your pants.
Define KUFR for me. And tell me about the kufr in the propaganda footage that was created and designed. Talk about it, don't grudge about it.
Define kufr to you? Did no one teach you what constitutes for kufr? Why would they? They won't teach you how to recognize kufr because you'll realize your zakirs are drowning you lot in it, lol.
I condemn the entire footage and those who created and designed it for propaganda purposes. It's been put together for nothing but propaganda. The entire video is on that.
Are you saying that your zakirs uttered all that so that we could create a video against Shias?
You want me to condemn only the bits and pieces of the footage you want. OK, I'll take you up on that. Why? Kufr? What Kufr? Talk to me. Don't hide behind the word Kufr.
It is very clear that you do not know what amounts to kufr. Had anyone exposed you to its horrors, you would not have been upon the misguidance you are!
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I'm sick and tired with you beating around the bush and your tit for tat tactics. Lets cut the crap out. Define KUFR for me and tell me what's bothering you. Bring it out and discuss it rather than you running around and then getting me to chase you.
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It is not what we are saying; it is what your own zakirs are saying.
You ask me to prove something but won't even allow me to. Then why ask for proof? Idiot much?
You have not even heard half of it and you are shivering in your pants.
Define kufr to you? Did no one teach you what constitutes for kufr? Why would they? They won't teach you how to recognize kufr because you'll realize your zakirs are drowning you lot in it, lol.
Are you saying that your zakirs uttered all that so that we could create a video against Shias?
It is very clear that you do not know what amounts to kufr. Had anyone exposed you to its horrors, you would not have been upon the misguidance you are!
"It is not what we are saying; it is what your own zakirs are saying"
What are they saying and what is kufr? Then we can see if what they're saying is kufr. Is this so difficult for you ?
"You ask me to prove something but won't even allow me to. Then why ask for proof? Idiot much?"
Ok, go ahead. You have my undivided attention.
"You have not even heard half of it and you are shivering in your pants"
Carry on assuming and dreaming. You have a right to amuse yourself.
"Define kufr to you? Did no one teach you what constitutes for kufr? Why would they? They won't teach you how to recognize kufr because you'll realize your zakirs are drowning you lot in it, lol."
You surely can't difine kufr. Knowledge, information and literacy is something you definitely lack in.
"Are you saying that your zakirs uttered all that so that we could create a video against Shias?"
Stop assuming and start understanding. Anyone these days can create and design such a footage for propaganda purposes. You're not a kid are you. So why are you having problems understanding.
"It is very clear that you do not know what amounts to kufr. Had anyone exposed you to its horrors, you would not have been upon the misguidance you are!"
Ok, so now why don't you be a good boy and define kufr for me so we can move the discussion forward. Or do you like beating around the bush.
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Define KUFR for me and tell me what's bothering you.
Kufr is what you hear in that video. And what is bothering me is that you cannot condemn it. Therefore, admit that you believe in it.
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Kufr is what you hear in that video. And what is bothering me is that you cannot condemn it. Therefore, admit that you believe in it.
You are either hesitant or shy or worried. Allow me to break it down for you. But before I do, you aren't here to discuss but to argue. You don't want to debate but quarrel. And that's all you've been doing till now.
You speak about those Zakirs in the footage, bits and pieces in the form of clips have been taken from speech videos of those Zakirs and these clips have been used in the propaganda video.
This reminds me of the far right in the west taking bits and pieces from the Qur'an or from videos of Muslim scholars giving lectures/speeches and using it for their purpose. That would be taking things out of context.
Those Zakirs are giving a speech and clips have been taken out of the speech video. Would you mind putting forward the entire speech video of those Zakirs and then talk to me. Make it fair as well as reasonable. Unless you're like the far right.
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Kufr is what you hear in that video. And what is bothering me is that you cannot condemn it. Therefore, admit that you believe in it.
That video has definitely got you running. The world is full of Kufr and you just focus on that propaganda video. It looks like that video is killing you that you can't define kufr and have a decent discussion over contexts of that video.
The definition and meaning of Kufr;
Kufr refers to disbelief in Allah and His Messenger, Muhammad. In Islam, the concept of kufr has been widely discussed among Islamic scholars for centuries. In Arabic, the term kufr literally means covering or concealing something, and in a religious context, it refers to hiding or denying religious truth.
Now tell me what seems to be the problem regarding short clips taken from a lecture/speech video of those Zakirs?
Come on, don't be scared!
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You speak about those Zakirs in the footage, bits and pieces in the form of clips have been taken from speech videos of those Zakirs and these clips have been used in the propaganda video.
Great! I'll play by your rules. All the videos that depict Sunnis committing crimes against Shias must be propaganda videos.
This reminds me of the far right in the west taking bits and pieces from the Qur'an or from videos of Muslim scholars giving lectures/speeches and using it for their purpose. That would be taking things out of context.
I have said this in the past and will say it again. You give their statements any context you wish but I want to see if there is anything that can be added to dilute their kufr.
I am leaving it to your endless imagination and it is plain to see that you are unable to absolve them nor condemn them. The sad existence of a Shi'i.
Those Zakirs are giving a speech and clips have been taken out of the speech video. Would you mind putting forward the entire speech video of those Zakirs and then talk to me.
You have the privilege to dive into your own imagination to add anything to what they have said to make their kufr more palatable. You are free to add anything to their statements. With no rules or conditions, you cannot rectify their kufr so what makes you think that the context would somehow cleanse their kufr?
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That video has definitely got you running. The world is full of Kufr and you just focus on that propaganda video. It looks like that video is killing you that you can't define kufr and have a decent discussion over contexts of that video.
The definition and meaning of Kufr;
Kufr refers to disbelief in Allah and His Messenger, Muhammad. In Islam, the concept of kufr has been widely discussed among Islamic scholars for centuries. In Arabic, the term kufr literally means covering or concealing something, and in a religious context, it refers to hiding or denying religious truth.
Now tell me what seems to be the problem regarding short clips taken from a lecture/speech video of those Zakirs?
Come on, don't be scared!
This is gold! Having watched the clip and providing the definition for kufr, you cannot find any issues with those clips. And then you wonder why they call you kafir!
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I think we need to listen to both sides of the argument and THEN make up our mind. I believe the following two videos give us the perspective of both sides. We have a Shia student making argument and the Sunni shaykh making arguments as well.