SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!

[Mythbuster1]

It begins with Saqifa and ends with Saqifa. If it wasn't for Saqifa we wouldn’t have this difference within the Ummah. And we wouldn't be a divided nation in a mess.

Our stance is clear. Your religion begins with Muhammad s.a.w and ends with him. After Muhammad s.a.w you have nothing absolute, clear, sure and firm. Our religion beings with Muhammad s.a.w and carries on from Muhammad s.a.w. We have something, absolute, clear, sure and firm.

No it’s not saqifa it’s your theory of divine Imamate that’s the problem.

That divine you added we keep saying and saying is the problem and still now after many posts on different threads you still haven’t proven it, the rest is your own conclusions about us having nothing clear........we have saqifa which is clear enough and it happened.

It hurts we know.😉

[Mythbuster1]

You're siding and speaking so highly and in defense of Muslim 720, well that's obvious. You obviously would. 😊 Sunni siding with a Sunni doesn't equal honesty.

No it equals brotherhood AND honesty, I trust my brother I haven’t any doubt as to why he would lie and keep the lie up for so long, you are again just looking for excuses and a way out as you cannot accept that fact.

[Mythbuster1]

Thanks for putting that forward. IMAMAH DOES EXIST IN THE QUR'AN AND ALLAH MAKES IMAMS. We've proven this together. 😀

Yes but you keep adding a new concept of divinity to them, Allah swt does make imams yes humans like us without divine powers.

[iceman]

No it’s not saqifa it’s your theory of divine Imamate that’s the problem.

That divine you added we keep saying and saying is the problem and still now after many posts on different threads you still haven’t proven it, the rest is your own conclusions about us having nothing clear........we have saqifa which is clear enough and it happened.

It hurts we know.😉

"No it’s not saqifa it’s your theory of divine Imamate that’s the problem"

Anything from Allah and or his Messenger is never a problem and never has been. The problem is Saqifa. And its foundation is on the fiction that the Prophet s.a.w never bothered to name and appoint someone to govern after him. We completely disagree and believe that this is ridiculous.

On the other hand lets say it was left to the Ummah and through Shura then Saqifa doesn't fit this either. I've said this numerous times before and no one can touch this, Saqifa wasn't a public assembly or a public event where important and concerned personalities gathered to select a leader for the Ummah through means and process of Shura.

[iceman]

No it equals brotherhood AND honesty, I trust my brother I haven’t any doubt as to why he would lie and keep the lie up for so long, you are again just looking for excuses and a way out as you cannot accept that fact.

People say a lot of things to try and convince others. All I'm saying is the stories he's putting forward based on his experience have no credibility, be it him or me about Sunni Mosques. Anyone can make up such claims. And surely you would accept and agree with him. If this was me instead of him there would be absolutely nothing you would agree on.

[iceman]

Yes but you keep adding a new concept of divinity to them, Allah swt does make imams yes humans like us without divine powers.

I don't add anything. You're having problems accepting. And I absolutely understand why. Allah gives knowledge, authority and miraculous powers to whom ever he desires. And for various tests and reasons.

[iceman]

No it’s not saqifa it’s your theory of divine Imamate that’s the problem.

That divine you added we keep saying and saying is the problem and still now after many posts on different threads you still haven’t proven it, the rest is your own conclusions about us having nothing clear........we have saqifa which is clear enough and it happened.

It hurts we know.😉

"That divine you added we keep saying and saying is the problem"

I don't add anything. If I was there and the Prophet s.a.w asked for a pen and paper I would absolutely and most definitely without a shadow of a doubt give it to him or ask for it to be given. I wouldn't add anything from myself for example

"He is delirious, there is no need for it, we have the book of Allah and that is enough for us".

Criticise and condemn the one who added and obstructed. I've proven it many times over but defending Saqifa and protecting the Shaykhain is your prime concern. I understand. Oh yes, Saqifa is very clear and it did happen. It isn't justified nor legitimate. It was a coincidence and the decision accidental.

[iceman]

1.  Manassas mosque in Manassas, Virginia
2.  Islamic Education Center in Potomac, Maryland
3.  Imam Ali Center in Springfield, Virginia

Google them!  If you know anyone in the DC Metropolitan area who has been to those mosques, you can confirm these mosques with them.  In fact, if you want, I will give you detailed description of the interior of those masaajid for you to confirm with them.

While I am certain that you would pull off such a dumb move, I did not do that.  To confirm what I read about Shias online, I visited their own mosques.

Wouldn't be surprised if you actually do that!

You have done this extensively.  The mere fact that you keep bringing them up proves that, to some degree, you associate them with orthodox Sunni Islam.

I know what you mean but seeing your irrelevant analogies, I'm almost certain that you would actually do all these things (you have mentioned).

"I know what you mean but seeing your irrelevant analogies"

I'm not surprised. There is nothing relevant, positive, right and good about me when it comes to you. 

"I'm almost certain that you would actually do all these things (you have mentioned)"

You don't see me going around posting clips about terror activities and atrocities then claiming that this is what Sunnis are all about.

[iceman]

"1. Manassas mosque in Manassas, Virginia
2.  Islamic Education Center in Potomac, Maryland
3.  Imam Ali Center in Springfield, Virginia"

Is that it? You've visited three mosques and you want to paint a picture on that about the entire Shia community worldwide?

"Google them!  If you know anyone in the DC Metropolitan area who has been to those mosques, you can confirm these mosques with them.  In fact, if you want, I will give you detailed description of the interior of those masaajid for you to confirm with them"

That's fine. All I'm saying is your stories about your experience aren't credible. They can't be backed up. It's your word. Exactly the same would apply to me if I was in your place. Do you understand. I'm not calling you a liar. Sometimes you see, hear or experience something but it's hard to back up, be it me or you. I would say the same if it was a Shia about Sunni Mosques.

[muslim720]

You don't see me going around posting clips about terror activities and atrocities then claiming that this is what Sunnis are all about.

The fact that you keep bringing it up, or keep mentioning Al-Baghdadi, etc, is an indication that you already correlate the two.

Is that it? You've visited three mosques and you want to paint a picture on that about the entire Shia community worldwide?

How many Sunni mosques you, or those Shias who criticize Sunni Islam, have visited?  Three mosques, scattered in two different states, being periodically visited over a span of six years and I still cannot report as an eyewitness.

The reality of it is that you won't dare set foot in a Sunni mosque being yourself.  I, on the other hand, have not only held my own but refuted your kind.  Openly!

That's fine. All I'm saying is your stories about your experience aren't credible. They can't be backed up. It's your word. Exactly the same would apply to me if I was in your place. Do you understand. I'm not calling you a liar.

I am not a liar but my experience and words lack credibility.  #ShiaLogic

[muslim720]

Moderators, please delete this post!

[Mythbuster1]

"No it’s not saqifa it’s your theory of divine Imamate that’s the problem"

Anything from Allah and or his Messenger is never a problem and never has been. The problem is Saqifa. And its foundation is on the fiction that the Prophet s.a.w never bothered to name and appoint someone to govern after him. We completely disagree and believe that this is ridiculous.

On the other hand lets say it was left to the Ummah and through Shura then Saqifa doesn't fit this either. I've said this numerous times before and no one can touch this, Saqifa wasn't a public assembly or a public event where important and concerned personalities gathered to select a leader for the Ummah through means and process of Shura.

The main PROBLEM is Allah swt and His messenger saw NEVER mentioned such and hence your REPETITIVE posts devoid of evidence relating to such divine concept.

I know I know you keep on about saqifa.......like I said saqifa is a living reality, can’t say much for divine Imamate, it must hurt so bad.😉👍

[Mythbuster1]

People say a lot of things to try and convince others. All I'm saying is the stories he's putting forward based on his experience have no credibility, be it him or me about Sunni Mosques. Anyone can make up such claims. And surely you would accept and agree with him. If this was me instead of him there would be absolutely nothing you would agree on.

You are making false judgements based on your thinking DEVOID of any proof or evidence as is the case with your divine Imamate arguments.

Bro muslim720 has no credibility because you say so.😄

He has posted shiite mosques he attended much more believable than you just talking TRASH.

[Mythbuster1]

I don't add anything. You're having problems accepting. And I absolutely understand why. Allah gives knowledge, authority and miraculous powers to whom ever he desires. And for various tests and reasons.

Yes.......but......where is that divine authority clearly mentioned??
You keep posting verses and explain your way of thinking but it doesn’t fit in with the verses posted, it’s no good making assumptions based on flimsy explanations.

[Mythbuster1]

"That divine you added we keep saying and saying is the problem"

I don't add anything. If I was there and the Prophet s.a.w asked for a pen and paper I would absolutely and most definitely without a shadow of a doubt give it to him or ask for it to be given. I wouldn't add anything from myself for example

"He is delirious, there is no need for it, we have the book of Allah and that is enough for us".

Criticise and condemn the one who added and obstructed. I've proven it many times over but defending Saqifa and protecting the Shaykhain is your prime concern. I understand. Oh yes, Saqifa is very clear and it did happen. It isn't justified nor legitimate. It was a coincidence and the decision accidental.

Talk about jumping from topics and YOU are the main culprit for it.😂😂😂👍

So that divinity Umar ra stopped it and we should blame him?

What are you talking about? Why have you jumped to a different topic?

I know I know hate is your key feature and it shows how you will change topics Because you cannot prove what I asked for.

Come on.

[Mythbuster1]

Yes.......but......where is that divine authority clearly mentioned??
Where is promotion concept you thought of gone?
Your answer it’s up to Allah swt doesn’t really work.

You keep posting verses and explain your way of thinking but it doesn’t fit in with the verses posted, it’s no good making assumptions based on flimsy explanations.

[Mythbuster1]

[iceman]

The fact that you keep bringing it up, or keep mentioning Al-Baghdadi, etc, is an indication that you already correlate the two.

How many Sunni mosques you, or those Shias who criticize Sunni Islam, have visited?  Three mosques, scattered in two different states, being periodically visited over a span of six years and I still cannot report as an eyewitness.

The reality of it is that you won't dare set foot in a Sunni mosque being yourself.  I, on the other hand, have not only held my own but refuted your kind.  Openly!

I am not a liar but my experience and words lack credibility.  #ShiaLogic

"The fact that you keep bringing it up, or keep mentioning Al-Baghdadi, etc, is an indication that you already correlate the two"

If we go on the Internet and start taking footage or various clips about Sunnis engaging in this, that and the other and try to paint an absolute and complete picture that this is what the entire Ahle Sunnah are all about just on that specific footage, knowing the fact that the Ahle Sunnah exist and come from different parts of the world, countries, cities, towns, villages and from different tribes and sects and they do things differently by commemorating and or celebrating then this would be nothing but PROPAGANDA against the Sunnis. This is exactly what we're facing. Get it. This is my point.

"How many Sunni mosques you, or those Shias who criticize Sunni Islam, have visited?"

Plenty my friend plenty. I listen to lectures from Sunni Scholars and engage in Sunni books. I come from a mixed community and relations. But I'm not a PROPAGANDIST. That's the difference. I don't have a grudge and I am not full of hatred. And then I don't go saying and behaving according this way.

"Three mosques, scattered in two different states, being periodically visited over a span of six years and I still cannot report as an eyewitness"

Yes you can and by all means. But what you report is what needs to be looked at an examined. You expect us or people to take things at face value?

"The reality of it is that you won't dare set foot in a Sunni mosque being yourself"

This is arrogance. You seem to know better and claim as though you know it all. Never mind about Sunni Mosques, I've been to Church, Gurdwara and temples my friend. And you talk about just Sunni mosques.

They (Sunni Mosques) have a problem to see me there. Not me. They turn heads and frown because of me being different and they knowing me based on gossip, tales and rumours.

"I am not a liar but my experience and words lack credibility.  #ShiaLogic"

I didn't say you were lying. All I said was anyone can come up with what you're saying. And it doesn't have credibility because it's just your saying backed and supported by nothing. It would be the same vice versa.

[muslim720]

If we go on the Internet and start taking footage or various clips about Sunnis engaging in this, that and the other and try to paint an absolute and complete picture that this is what the entire Ahle Sunnah are all about just on that specific footage, knowing the fact that the Ahle Sunnah exist and come from different parts of the world, countries, cities, towns, villages and from different tribes and sects and they do things differently by commemorating and or celebrating then this would be nothing but PROPAGANDA against the Sunnis.

I understand that it is different than collecting sample clips from inside the Sunni mosques.  Without going deeper into the matter, why haven't you distanced yourself from these zakirs and their kufr?  We got your point!  The "evil" Sunnis must have fabricated these videos.  But why can't you condemn the content of the video?

This is exactly what we're facing. Get it. This is my point.

I got it!  Go ahead and condemn the content of the video.

Plenty my friend plenty. I listen to lectures from Sunni Scholars and engage in Sunni books. I come from a mixed community and relations. But I'm not a PROPAGANDIST. That's the difference.

Plenty!  Quite an anecdote.

I don't have a grudge and I am not full of hatred. And then I don't go saying and behaving according this way.

Don't give a damn what you are and what you hold.  You cannot defend your theology for a minute.

Yes you can and by all means. But what you report is what needs to be looked at an examined. You expect us or people to take things at face value?

Let us start with the mosques.  Do you know anyone who can verify those mosques and their existence?  Once you do that, I will give you more pieces of information which will absolutely substantiate everything I have said.

You cannot even authenticate or weaken your own ahaadith and you want me to believe that you have the capability to investigate my life, lol!

This is arrogance. You seem to know better and claim as though you know it all. Never mind about Sunni Mosques, I've been to Church, Gurdwara and temples my friend. And you talk about just Sunni mosques.

Since I see no condemnation from you for the filth spoken in the video, I am sure you feel at home when you go to Churches, Temples and Gurudwaras!

They (Sunni Mosques) have a problem to see me there. Not me. They turn heads and frown because of me being different and they knowing me based on gossip, tales and rumours.

I am glad others share the same sentiment I have towards you, lol!

I didn't say you were lying. All I said was anyone can come up with what you're saying. And it doesn't have credibility because it's just your saying backed and supported by nothing. It would be the same vice versa.

Do you even know that the sure way to lose credibility is to lie?

[iceman]

I understand that it is different than collecting sample clips from inside the Sunni mosques.  Without going deeper into the matter, why haven't you distanced yourself from these zakirs and their kufr?  We got your point!  The "evil" Sunnis must have fabricated these videos.  But why can't you condemn the content of the video?

I got it!  Go ahead and condemn the content of the video.

Plenty!  Quite an anecdote.

Don't give a damn what you are and what you hold.  You cannot defend your theology for a minute.

Let us start with the mosques.  Do you know anyone who can verify those mosques and their existence?  Once you do that, I will give you more pieces of information which will absolutely substantiate everything I have said.

You cannot even authenticate or weaken your own ahaadith and you want me to believe that you have the capability to investigate my life, lol!

Since I see no condemnation from you for the filth spoken in the video, I am sure you feel at home when you go to Churches, Temples and Gurudwaras!

I am glad others share the same sentiment I have towards you, lol!

Do you even know that the sure way to lose credibility is to lie?

"I understand that it is different than collecting sample clips from inside the Sunni mosques.  Without going deeper into the matter, why haven't you distanced yourself from these zakirs and their kufr?  We got your point!  The "evil" Sunnis must have fabricated these videos.  But why can't you condemn the content of the video?"

How much have you done to distance yourself and to come out and severely criticise and condemn those who commit terror offences and I mean terrible offences and atrocities in the name of Islam and being Muslims and they claim to be Ahle Sunnah? Can you show me how much you have done or those who spend so much time and effort on refuting Shias?

Or how much has the Ahle Sunnah community at large done to distance themselves from these groups, parties and organisations who are involved in terror activities and commit such terrible offences and atrocities in the name of Islam and being Sunnis? Can anyone step forward and tell me.

You're banging on about Kufr from a silly clip someone has took God knows from where and how and when and why, and you're jumping up and down about it as though there's no tomorrow, what about those clips and videos that are absolutely genuine and are full of horror, carried out by Sunnis in the name of Islam?

You definitely need to get your priorities in order.

"Don't give a damn what you are and what you hold.  You cannot defend your theology for a minute"

Oh Yeh, is that why you're jumping up and down about it for the past 1400 years. And it hasn't got you anywhere, apart from being all twisted and screwed up with hatred and grudge.

"Let us start with the mosques.  Do you know anyone who can verify those mosques and their existence?  Once you do that, I will give you more pieces of information which will absolutely substantiate everything I have said"

Verifying those mosques has got nothing to do with it. What you need to verify is your tales and stories. Speak about your experience on what you've witnessed and I will tell you how true and exact it is. Or get it confirmed.