SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!

[muslim720]

How much have you done to distance yourself and to come out and severely criticise and condemn those who commit terror offences and I mean terrible offences and atrocities in the name of Islam and being Muslims and they claim to be Ahle Sunnah?

Far more than you can imagine.  Before I get to its details, now is your chance to do the same and rescue your school.  Why do you find it hard to condemn the kufr uttered in these videos?

Can you show me how much you have done or those who spend so much time and effort on refuting Shias?

It is a habit that you develop.  Prior to learning about different sects within Islam, I was heavily involved in Muslim-Christian dawah.  Our neighborhood is full of Muslim families and there was a time when we would have missionaries show up on a weekly basis.  Fast-forward to present day, not a single one - unless new to the city - dares show up.

So here is your chance to do the same.  All these posts and we have yet to read one condemning statement from your side.  Why is this so hard for you?

Or how much has the Ahle Sunnah community at large done to distance themselves from these groups, parties and organisations who are involved in terror activities and commit such terrible offences and atrocities in the name of Islam and being Sunnis? Can anyone step forward and tell me.

The difference between me and you is that you have your eyes closed and you want others to show you objects around the room.  Open your eyes!  Fly to Washington DC - I can book you Airbnb or a hotel room - and let me take you from one organization to the next not just meeting your requirements but exceeding them.  Talk is cheap but here is your chance, once again, to give yourself some credibility.  Condemn the kufr uttered in the video and set a clear distance between your school and what is being preached in its name.

You're banging on about Kufr from a silly clip someone has took God knows from where and how and when and why, and you're jumping up and down about it as though there's no tomorrow

Why do the "where", "how", "when" and "why" matter?  I see no one being compelled or forced to say all that.  For the sake of honesty and consistency, can you condemn the video?

what about those clips and videos that are absolutely genuine and are full of horror, carried out by Sunnis in the name of Islam?

May Allah's (swt) curse be upon those Sunnis who violate the Qur'an and Sunnah by taking, or harming, innocent lives.  Now, your turn.

You definitely need to get your priorities in order.

No, you need to get your priorities straight, you pathetic imbecile!  Shirk is the biggest sin in Islam; murder comes after.  I condemned every Sunni murdering innocent human beings for the reason that they commit the second biggest sin in Islam.  You cannot even distance yourself from people who invite others to shirk - the biggest sin in Islam - in the name of your religion, let alone condemn or curse them.

Oh Yeh, is that why you're jumping up and down about it for the past 1400 years. And it hasn't got you anywhere, apart from being all twisted and screwed up with hatred and grudge.

You have reminded us of this multiple times.  We got your point and you can plaster this as your core creedal belief on your forehead.  With so many statements issued by you, we are awaiting one, just one, to condemn the kufr in the video.

Speak about your experience on what you've witnessed and I will tell you how true and exact it is. Or get it confirmed.

Wait, you want me to tell you my experiences and things I have witnessed and you will determine how true and exact they are?  What sort of junk do you feed your mind for it to produce such irrational statements and/or suggestions?  Seriously, you need time off from all the head banging.

[iceman]

Far more than you can imagine.  Before I get to its details, now is your chance to do the same and rescue your school.  Why do you find it hard to condemn the kufr uttered in these videos?

It is a habit that you develop.  Prior to learning about different sects within Islam, I was heavily involved in Muslim-Christian dawah.  Our neighborhood is full of Muslim families and there was a time when we would have missionaries show up on a weekly basis.  Fast-forward to present day, not a single one - unless new to the city - dares show up.

So here is your chance to do the same.  All these posts and we have yet to read one condemning statement from your side.  Why is this so hard for you?

The difference between me and you is that you have your eyes closed and you want others to show you objects around the room.  Open your eyes!  Fly to Washington DC - I can book you Airbnb or a hotel room - and let me take you from one organization to the next not just meeting your requirements but exceeding them.  Talk is cheap but here is your chance, once again, to give yourself some credibility.  Condemn the kufr uttered in the video and set a clear distance between your school and what is being preached in its name.

Why do the "where", "how", "when" and "why" matter?  I see no one being compelled or forced to say all that.  For the sake of honesty and consistency, can you condemn the video?

May Allah's (swt) curse be upon those Sunnis who violate the Qur'an and Sunnah by taking, or harming, innocent lives.  Now, your turn.

No, you need to get your priorities straight, you pathetic imbecile!  Shirk is the biggest sin in Islam; murder comes after.  I condemned every Sunni murdering innocent human beings for the reason that they commit the second biggest sin in Islam.  You cannot even distance yourself from people who invite others to shirk - the biggest sin in Islam - in the name of your religion, let alone condemn or curse them.

You have reminded us of this multiple times.  We got your point and you can plaster this as your core creedal belief on your forehead.  With so many statements issued by you, we are awaiting one, just one, to condemn the kufr in the video.

Wait, you want me to tell you my experiences and things I have witnessed and you will determine how true and exact they are?  What sort of junk do you feed your mind for it to produce such irrational statements and/or suggestions?  Seriously, you need time off from all the head banging.

"Far more than you can imagine"

Ok, tell me. Show me.

"Before I get to its details"

Don't look for excuses.

"now is your chance to do the same and rescue your school"

My school needs to be rescued from the propaganda that is being spread against it, just like the two videos that have been created by being put together for propaganda purposes. And I'm already on the rescue.

"Why do you find it hard to condemn the kufr uttered in these videos?"

I've said this before and I'll post you where I've said it. Talk about the context in the video that's bothering you and tell me why you see it as Kufr. TALK ABOUT IT, DON'T GRUDGE ABOUT IT!

"So here is your chance to do the same.  All these posts and we have yet to read one condemning statement from your side.  Why is this so hard for you?"

Explain to me what needs to be criticised and condemned and why? I condemn the entire footage which has been created and designed for propaganda purposes.

[iceman]

Far more than you can imagine.  Before I get to its details, now is your chance to do the same and rescue your school.  Why do you find it hard to condemn the kufr uttered in these videos?

It is a habit that you develop.  Prior to learning about different sects within Islam, I was heavily involved in Muslim-Christian dawah.  Our neighborhood is full of Muslim families and there was a time when we would have missionaries show up on a weekly basis.  Fast-forward to present day, not a single one - unless new to the city - dares show up.

So here is your chance to do the same.  All these posts and we have yet to read one condemning statement from your side.  Why is this so hard for you?

The difference between me and you is that you have your eyes closed and you want others to show you objects around the room.  Open your eyes!  Fly to Washington DC - I can book you Airbnb or a hotel room - and let me take you from one organization to the next not just meeting your requirements but exceeding them.  Talk is cheap but here is your chance, once again, to give yourself some credibility.  Condemn the kufr uttered in the video and set a clear distance between your school and what is being preached in its name.

Why do the "where", "how", "when" and "why" matter?  I see no one being compelled or forced to say all that.  For the sake of honesty and consistency, can you condemn the video?

May Allah's (swt) curse be upon those Sunnis who violate the Qur'an and Sunnah by taking, or harming, innocent lives.  Now, your turn.

No, you need to get your priorities straight, you pathetic imbecile!  Shirk is the biggest sin in Islam; murder comes after.  I condemned every Sunni murdering innocent human beings for the reason that they commit the second biggest sin in Islam.  You cannot even distance yourself from people who invite others to shirk - the biggest sin in Islam - in the name of your religion, let alone condemn or curse them.

You have reminded us of this multiple times.  We got your point and you can plaster this as your core creedal belief on your forehead.  With so many statements issued by you, we are awaiting one, just one, to condemn the kufr in the video.

Wait, you want me to tell you my experiences and things I have witnessed and you will determine how true and exact they are?  What sort of junk do you feed your mind for it to produce such irrational statements and/or suggestions?  Seriously, you need time off from all the head banging.

"The difference between me and you is that you have your eyes closed and you want others to show you objects around the room"

Always assuming things, aren't you. You think you know it all. Your problem is that you want people to take what you say at face value. All I'm saying is what ever you say about me or my community, I know you don't. It's just as simple as that.

"Fly to Washington DC - I can book you Airbnb or a hotel room - and let me take you from one organization to the next not just meeting your requirements but exceeding them"

You don't need to book me anything. What you can't do here you won't be able to do over there. You're failing miserably here, what on earth are you going to do over there. You're all talk.

"Talk is cheap"

Yes it is. That's all that seems to be coming from you.

"but here is your chance, once again, to give yourself some credibility"

You're the one making the claims about my faith, mosques and community. Credibility is something you need. Back yourself up boy.

"Condemn the kufr uttered in the video and set a clear distance between your school and what is being preached in its name"

Define KUFR for me. And tell me about the kufr in the propaganda footage that was created and designed. Talk about it, don't grudge about it.

"Why do the "where", "how", "when" and "why" matter?  I see no one being compelled or forced to say all that.  For the sake of honesty and consistency, can you condemn the video?"

I condemn the entire footage and those who created and designed it for propaganda purposes. It's been put together for nothing but propaganda. The entire video is on that.

You want me to condemn only the bits and pieces of the footage you want. OK, I'll take you up on that. Why? Kufr? What Kufr? Talk to me. Don't hide behind the word Kufr.

[muslim720]

Ok, tell me. Show me.

Can you see halfway around the world?  For someone who cannot meet a simple demand (to condemn kufr), you have some ludicrous demands of your own.

Don't look for excuses.

Excuses for what?  If you come here, I'll take you to more organizations than you can count that condemns everything you have stated.

My school needs to be rescued from the propaganda that is being spread against it, just like the two videos that have been created by being put together for propaganda purposes.

Are you saying that the videos are edited and tampered with? 

You say you have been to many Sunni mosques.  Name me one thing you heard that borders kufr.  One!

And I'm already on the rescue.

We can see how vociferously you are defending kufr.  Precisely why some of us make takfeer on your school.  All these posts, all these red-herrings from you but not a single direct phrase of condemnation. 

I've said this before and I'll post you where I've said it. Talk about the context in the video that's bothering you and tell me why you see it as Kufr. TALK ABOUT IT, DON'T GRUDGE ABOUT IT!

What is there to talk about?  What context?  Is there anything you can add to these statements that would dilute the message?

Explain to me what needs to be criticised and condemned and why? I condemn the entire footage which has been created and designed for propaganda purposes.

What about the content?

[muslim720]

Always assuming things, aren't you. You think you know it all. Your problem is that you want people to take what you say at face value. All I'm saying is what ever you say about me or my community, I know you don't. It's just as simple as that.

It is not what we are saying; it is what your own zakirs are saying.

You don't need to book me anything. What you can't do here you won't be able to do over there. You're failing miserably here, what on earth are you going to do over there. You're all talk.

You ask me to prove something but won't even allow me to.  Then why ask for proof?  Idiot much?

You're the one making the claims about my faith, mosques and community. Credibility is something you need. Back yourself up boy.

You have not even heard half of it and you are shivering in your pants.

Define KUFR for me. And tell me about the kufr in the propaganda footage that was created and designed. Talk about it, don't grudge about it.

Define kufr to you?  Did no one teach you what constitutes for kufr?  Why would they?  They won't teach you how to recognize kufr because you'll realize your zakirs are drowning you lot in it, lol.

I condemn the entire footage and those who created and designed it for propaganda purposes. It's been put together for nothing but propaganda. The entire video is on that.

Are you saying that your zakirs uttered all that so that we could create a video against Shias?

You want me to condemn only the bits and pieces of the footage you want. OK, I'll take you up on that. Why? Kufr? What Kufr? Talk to me. Don't hide behind the word Kufr.

It is very clear that you do not know what amounts to kufr.  Had anyone exposed you to its horrors, you would not have been upon the misguidance you are!

[iceman]

I'm sick and tired with you beating around the bush and your tit for tat tactics. Lets cut the crap out. Define KUFR for me and tell me what's bothering you. Bring it out and discuss it rather than you running around and then getting me to chase you.

[iceman]

It is not what we are saying; it is what your own zakirs are saying.

You ask me to prove something but won't even allow me to.  Then why ask for proof?  Idiot much?

You have not even heard half of it and you are shivering in your pants.

Define kufr to you?  Did no one teach you what constitutes for kufr?  Why would they?  They won't teach you how to recognize kufr because you'll realize your zakirs are drowning you lot in it, lol.

Are you saying that your zakirs uttered all that so that we could create a video against Shias?

It is very clear that you do not know what amounts to kufr.  Had anyone exposed you to its horrors, you would not have been upon the misguidance you are!

"It is not what we are saying; it is what your own zakirs are saying"

What are they saying and what is kufr? Then we can see if what they're saying is kufr. Is this so difficult for you ?

"You ask me to prove something but won't even allow me to.  Then why ask for proof?  Idiot much?"

Ok, go ahead. You have my undivided attention.

"You have not even heard half of it and you are shivering in your pants"

Carry on assuming and dreaming. You have a right to amuse yourself.

"Define kufr to you?  Did no one teach you what constitutes for kufr?  Why would they?  They won't teach you how to recognize kufr because you'll realize your zakirs are drowning you lot in it, lol."

You surely can't difine kufr. Knowledge, information and literacy is something you definitely lack in.

"Are you saying that your zakirs uttered all that so that we could create a video against Shias?"

Stop assuming and start understanding. Anyone these days can create and design such a footage for propaganda purposes. You're not a kid are you. So why are you having problems understanding.

"It is very clear that you do not know what amounts to kufr.  Had anyone exposed you to its horrors, you would not have been upon the misguidance you are!"

Ok, so now why don't you be a good boy and define kufr for me so we can move the discussion forward. Or do you like beating around the bush.

[muslim720]

Define KUFR for me and tell me what's bothering you.

Kufr is what you hear in that video.  And what is bothering me is that you cannot condemn it.  Therefore, admit that you believe in it.

[iceman]

Kufr is what you hear in that video.  And what is bothering me is that you cannot condemn it.  Therefore, admit that you believe in it.

You are either hesitant or shy or worried. Allow me to break it down for you. But before I do, you aren't here to discuss but to argue. You don't want to debate but quarrel. And that's all you've been doing till now.

You speak about those Zakirs in the footage, bits and pieces in the form of clips have been taken from speech videos of those Zakirs and these clips have been used in the propaganda video.

This reminds me of the far right in the west taking bits and pieces from the Qur'an or from videos of Muslim scholars giving lectures/speeches and using it for their purpose. That would be taking things out of context.

Those Zakirs are giving a speech and clips have been taken out of the speech video. Would you mind putting forward the entire speech video of those Zakirs and then talk to me. Make it fair as well as reasonable. Unless you're like the far right.

[iceman]

Kufr is what you hear in that video.  And what is bothering me is that you cannot condemn it.  Therefore, admit that you believe in it.

That video has definitely got you running. The world is full of Kufr and you just focus on that propaganda video. It looks like that video is killing you that you can't define kufr and have a decent discussion over contexts of that video.

The definition and meaning of Kufr;

Kufr refers to disbelief in Allah and His Messenger, Muhammad. In Islam, the concept of kufr has been widely discussed among Islamic scholars for centuries. In Arabic, the term kufr literally means covering or concealing something, and in a religious context, it refers to hiding or denying religious truth.

Now tell me what seems to be the problem regarding short clips taken from a lecture/speech video of those Zakirs?

Come on, don't be scared!

[muslim720]

You speak about those Zakirs in the footage, bits and pieces in the form of clips have been taken from speech videos of those Zakirs and these clips have been used in the propaganda video.

Great!  I'll play by your rules.  All the videos that depict Sunnis committing crimes against Shias must be propaganda videos.

This reminds me of the far right in the west taking bits and pieces from the Qur'an or from videos of Muslim scholars giving lectures/speeches and using it for their purpose. That would be taking things out of context.

I have said this in the past and will say it again.  You give their statements any context you wish but I want to see if there is anything that can be added to dilute their kufr. 

I am leaving it to your endless imagination and it is plain to see that you are unable to absolve them nor condemn them.  The sad existence of a Shi'i.

Those Zakirs are giving a speech and clips have been taken out of the speech video. Would you mind putting forward the entire speech video of those Zakirs and then talk to me.

You have the privilege to dive into your own imagination to add anything to what they have said to make their kufr more palatable.  You are free to add anything to their statements.  With no rules or conditions, you cannot rectify their kufr so what makes you think that the context would somehow cleanse their kufr?

[muslim720]

That video has definitely got you running. The world is full of Kufr and you just focus on that propaganda video. It looks like that video is killing you that you can't define kufr and have a decent discussion over contexts of that video.

The definition and meaning of Kufr;

Kufr refers to disbelief in Allah and His Messenger, Muhammad. In Islam, the concept of kufr has been widely discussed among Islamic scholars for centuries. In Arabic, the term kufr literally means covering or concealing something, and in a religious context, it refers to hiding or denying religious truth.

Now tell me what seems to be the problem regarding short clips taken from a lecture/speech video of those Zakirs?

Come on, don't be scared!

This is gold!  Having watched the clip and providing the definition for kufr, you cannot find any issues with those clips.  And then you wonder why they call you kafir!

[Qamar Farooq]

I think we need to listen to both sides of the argument and THEN make up our mind. I believe the following two videos give us the perspective of both sides. We have a Shia student making argument and the Sunni shaykh making arguments as well.