Something can be wrong with your thinking process.

[Link]

1. Denial of clearness of evidence and proof is not proof unclearness in itself.
2. Stating an alternative clear way of stating it, is not proof the way it has been stated is unclear.
3. Atheists assume they are sincere to the truth regarding God's existence while all believers are being dishonest about belief in him, and have in haste conclude there is no proof for God nor evidence or signs of existence.  The Quran warns anyone who disbelieves rather then have faith in God's Signs and guidance has gone astray from the way.
4. Bias plays a role in the way Satan misguides, until, we have no desire of our sectarian leaders of being correct and no attachment to a people over another, we will not be able to get guided. We cannot come picking sides and then claiming we are objective.
5. It has been my experience people who deny proofs of things are never right, there are so many proofs and ways of arriving at conclusions, that there isn't much things that cannot be proven in some way or another.  Absence of evidence as proof has never been a certain way for any human, because a human may fail to understand a proof or fail to have searched.   

[Hani]

Putting all that aside, everything you write is weak and unclear and that's why we don't bother much to refute you. We just let you post anything you wish since we know it's unconvincing.

[Link]

Putting all that aside, everything you write is weak and unclear and that's why we don't bother much to refute you. We just let you post anything you wish since we know it's unconvincing.

Yeah I am sure that is why *smiles*.

Which means everything you do reply to is very convincing to you but you just say things anyways...haha.

[Hani]

Yeah I am sure that is why *smiles*.

Which means everything you do reply to is very convincing to you but you just say things anyways...haha.

When we feel like replying to something we do, but I'm talking for the most part, I don't even make any effort to read your posts anymore.

Make sure to send us a PM when you have something valuable written because so far, we don't see much of it as any threat.

PS. give my regards to your 12 rivers.

[Link]

Yeah I am sure that is why *smiles*.

Which means everything you do reply to is very convincing to you but you just say things anyways...haha.

When we feel like replying to something we do, but I'm talking for the most part, I don't even make any effort to read your posts anymore.

Make sure to send us a PM when you have something valuable written because so far, we don't see much of it as any threat.

PS. give my regards to your 12 rivers.

I think you guys have nothing to say.

1st strategy of people refuting Shiism was to say no authentic hadiths prove Wilayah of Ahlulbayt and the Imammate. When Sunnis found that going south, they shifted strategy.

Talk about how Quran must contain Imammate. When shown Quran does talk in many places and even over all theme is about Wilayah and Imammate, and has designations of the family of Mohammad in there both explicitly and implicitly. Shift the subject.

Then it was there needs to be non-circular proof of the names of the Imams and their number. When reasoning was shown to refute that....

It's by clutching at straws now. Take what scholars present and make it as if there represent Shiism and by refuting them, you refute Wilayah of 12 Imams after Mohammad.

There is no where for you to go now that proofs have been shown and you are realising the whole Quran comes together through Wilayah of 12 Imams, the family of the reminder.

So your new strategy is to do what people did before when presented with clear arguments and reasoning....accuse the speaker of speaking things they don't understand.  I think we can all agree the most best speaking people were God's chosen ones.

Look how in Quran people accuse them of speaking unclearly and that they don't understand what they say. However Quran shows in many verses, they purposely closed their ears to it by denial but otherwise understood and perceive the truth. God's Name and Affair and Command and came down to them and was conveyed to them. They understood Tawheed, they understood the need of Nubuwa and guidance from God. They understood very well.

They understood the Taghut that needed to be avoided. But they made arguments and kept up moving the goal posts. No miracle would be enough for them.

Just like no evidence to you would be enough for you. Now you choose the strategy of mockery and ignoring, and accusing of not understanding and argument being unclear.

..."their hearts are alike, verily God has shown the proofs/signs for a people who are certain".

With peace.

[Link]

PS. give my regards to your 12 rivers.

All praise to God that all his verses increase me in faith in the true religion the upright way towards God, although others may belittle them, including the verses about twelve rivers.

ps. Jaffar means river/stream...May God bless the 12 rivers.

[Farid]

I have seen Link post on Shiachat and get little to no feedback on his topics about Ahlulbayt. He knows this well. It just goes to show that nobody understands him.

[Hani]

Alright, let's have some fun with you.

I think you guys have nothing to say.

When I was a newbie, I used to reply to everything. Now after acquiring knowledge and experience, I simply dismiss things that are not worth commenting on. The level of your argumentation is below YouTube standard sometimes.

1st strategy of people refuting Shiism was to say no authentic hadiths prove Wilayah of Ahlulbayt and the Imammate. When Sunnis found that going south, they shifted strategy.

What's the authentic narration that proves the Wilayah of Ahlul-Bayt? Please provide. (Let's see if that goes south as you say)

Talk about how Quran must contain Imammate.

The Qur'an does talk about leadership. It doesn't though teach nor preach the Twelver version of leadership. Leadership as humanity understands it is one thing and leadership as your sect defines it means another.

Then it was there needs to be non-circular proof of the names of the Imams and their number.

I still remember you saying that God decided it was a better for humanity NOT to mention the names of the 12 leaders in the Qur'an so as to preserve your special leadership.

Do you remember how backwards your argument was or should I remind you?

So your new strategy is to do what people did before when presented with clear arguments and reasoning....accuse the speaker of speaking things they don't understand.

You'd have a point if you were a prophet with special knowledge. Unfortunately, you're a nobody with no knowledge.

Take what scholars present and make it as if there represent Shiism and by refuting them, you refute Wilayah of 12 Imams after Mohammad

The guy who holds on to a myth of a leader who accomplishes nothing nor guides anyone cannot accuse others of holding on to straws.

Look how in Quran people accuse them of speaking unclearly and that they don't understand what they say

Do you know what the difference is? In the Qur'an, the prophets (as) speak clear and explicit statements of guidance. The stubborn rejecters reject. However, what you say I doubt humankind can understand due to your unclarity and flawed methodology.

They understood Tawheed, they understood the need of Nubuwa and guidance from God. They understood very well.

Stop talking like a Takfiri, we believe in God and Tawheed and prophet-hood. We also see the necessity of government and leadership. What we reject and refuse is this scam your sect concocted (leadership of `Ali and his 11 children ending with a hidden savior), as people of understanding and guidance, we refuse to accept this nonsense.

[Hani]

I have seen Link post on Shiachat and get little to no feedback on his topics about Ahlulbayt. He knows this well. It just goes to show that nobody understands him.

If people of his own belief do not see much interest in what he has to write. They believe in 12 appointed leaders yet do not pay attention to his writings and "arguments". Yet he is from those who have the audacity to say to everyone else "I understand everything and your thinking process is flawed." Rather it is your own thinking process that has issues Ya Link not the rest of humanity.

[Link]

I have seen Link post on Shiachat and get little to no feedback on his topics about Ahlulbayt. He knows this well. It just goes to show that nobody understands him.

When they were first presented (way back) when the forum was active, they got a lot of feedback.  The forum Shiachat has become dead and over all people there aren't interested so much defending Wilayah of Ahlulbayt against Sunnis as they are in their culture groups and the fallible leadership they support, and defending their interpretation of Shiism against other Shias.

Plus I've become notorious for my anti-taqleed stance, so people don't want to praise any of my topics. I slipped up once and they put me on mod preview. The slip up was of course showing we aren't to simply say "Ya Ali" and call for his assistance without resolve to take his help and defeat the unclean self, otherwise, even "Ya Ali" becomes a call of the unclean Satan and seeking his help and valuing him on par with God.

That is all I said, and then people took advantage of that, and began to mock me. Then I did accuse them of having neglected the proper intention because of their words to me, which was obvious, it was not about seeking help of Ali but all about serving the unclean ego.

At the end, I realized it was out of place, and apologized. But a few days later, I found myself on mod preview.

At any rate, I've become quite hated there, and it's because of my arguments against Taqleed and giving authority to scholars.

[Hani]

Forget about ShiaChat, please answer what I wrote and present something as an argument. Where's your solid evidence that this man `Ali was appointed and 11 from his children. You can use Qur'an, Sunnah or `Ali's own words.

I saw you posted some long list of Qur'anic verses in another thread. You're welcome to use a verse or whatever you prefer.

[Link]

Forget about ShiaChat, please answer what I wrote and present something as an argument. Where's your solid evidence that this man `Ali was appointed and 11 from his children. You can use Qur'an, Sunnah or `Ali's own words.

Set up at one on one debate and I will discuss with you. We've discussed so many times. Asking where is it in Quran? Where is in authentic hadiths? Where is it proven by reasoning? Etc...

Is meaningless. You want to have a one on one debate I will. We make it 7 posts to 7 posts since 7 is your lucky number and will end it at that.

[Hani]

Ok great, please post below this one an argument.

[Link]

Ok great, please post below this one an argument.

Google either: possess authority context

or: Ulil-Amr context

1st thing on top that appears on google. What do you know? Context is important after all.

[Hani]

This here?
http://forum.twelvershia.net/imamah-ghaybah/context-of-ulil-amr-verses/

What about it?

[Link]

This here?
http://forum.twelvershia.net/imamah-ghaybah/context-of-ulil-amr-verses/

What about it?

http://www.wilayat.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2341:the-context-and-meaning-of-ulil-amr-those-whom-possess-the-authority&catid=177&lang=en&Itemid=115

[Hani]

So you basically just want me to read this whole thing and give an opinion? Alright, I'll read when I get home.

[Link]

So you basically just want me to read this whole thing and give an opinion? Alright, I'll read when I get home.

I don't care if you do or don't. The point I was making is you guys were saying no one appreciates my arguments while that is the number one article that comes up if you google "Ulil-Amr context" or "Possess authority context".

[Hani]

And? Do you want to discuss your article or not?

[Link]

And? Do you want to discuss your article or not?

I want to have an official one on one debate about Wilayah of 12 Imams.  If you want to have that debate, I will.

We've discussed the points in that article. My point is my arguments not unpopular. I've seen people on social media groups post that article.

The point is you were saying my arguments make no sense, not to even Shias. I was showing that in fact, that article is so popular, it comes number 1 on google if you googe Ulil-Amr context, or possess authority context.