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Imam Ja'far Teachings

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Hadrami

Imam Ja'far Teachings
« on: June 18, 2018, 03:37:01 PM »
We have heard many times shias said that imam Jafar taught many people in Madina and his student include many great sunni scholars. My question is when he did teach in public such as the Prophets masjid, did he teach sunni jurisprudence to people?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 03:38:43 PM by Hadrami »

Rationalist

Re: Imam Ja'far Teachings
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2018, 05:58:09 PM »

Hadrami

Re: Imam Ja'far Teachings
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2018, 03:06:44 PM »
thanks, but it doesnt answer my question. Did shia believe he teach sunni or shia fiqh in those public classes?

Rationalist

Re: Imam Ja'far Teachings
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2018, 03:42:15 AM »

Ahmad ibn Idris from Muhamad ibn 'Abdul-Jabbar from al-Hassan ibn 'Ali from Tha'alabah ibn Maymoun from Zurarah ibn A'ayun that he said: I asked Imam al-Baqir (as) a question so the Imam gave me the answer then another man came and asked the same question so the Imam gave him a different answer, then another one came and asked about it so the Imam gave him a completely different answer than both of us. when both men left I asked the Imam: "O son of Rassul Allah, two men from 'Iraq and from your Shia came to ask you but you gave each of them different answers." He replied: "O Zurarah, this is good for us so that we may remain safer because if you all agree on this then the people will believe in it and they would be guided to us but we will not remain for long."
Later I said to his son al-Sadiq (as): "Your Shia always walk away from you with different opinions and answers" so he gave me the same reply as his father.
source: al-Kafi 1/65.
al-Majlisi said: Muwaththaq like the Sahih.
al-Behbudi said: Sahih.
Ali ibn Ibrahim from his father from ibn abi Najran from 'Assim bin Humayd from Mansour ibn Hazim who said: I said to al-Sadiq (as): "What is the matter with you, I ask a question and you give me an answer then another man comes and asks it so you give him a completely different one?" The Imam replied: "we answer people in matters of addition and deletion." I said to him: "Then tell me about the companions of Rassul-Allah SAWS do they narrate truthful narrations or do they lie?" the Imam said: "They are truthful" I asked: "Why did they differ?" he replied: "Do you not know that a man used to come to Rassul-Allah SAWS and ask a question then he answers him but later he would answer to the same question differently because the Ahadith they abrogate each other."
source: al-Kafi 1/65.
al-Majlisi said: Hasan.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Imam Ja'far Teachings
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2018, 03:29:19 AM »
I can understand why some hadith scholars/rijal scholars were not comfortable with Jafar Sadiq. Not because he wasn’t a scholar, but due to the narrations attributed to him & the likes of those who claimed to have narrated from him.


Hani

Re: Imam Ja'far Teachings
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2018, 05:43:00 AM »
I can understand why some hadith scholars/rijal scholars were not comfortable with Jafar Sadiq. Not because he wasn’t a scholar, but due to the narrations attributed to him & the likes of those who claimed to have narrated from him.



Personally speaking, the enormous amount of lies attributed to this man, it is something unprecedented, that the moment his name pops up in a chain you get suspicious of who narrated from him. Furthermore, it seems Ja`far was Saduq, not Thiqah like his father. Ja`far specialized in Fiqh while his father specialized in Hadith, that seems to be the case.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Rationalist

Re: Imam Ja'far Teachings
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2018, 07:15:45 PM »
I want a youtube series on what the 12er Shia attributed to Imam Baqer and Imam Sadeq in al Kafi.

Hani

Re: Imam Ja'far Teachings
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2018, 07:32:14 AM »
I want a youtube series on what the 12er Shia attributed to Imam Baqer and Imam Sadeq in al Kafi.

Hundreds of things, why?
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hadrami

Re: Imam Ja'far Teachings
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2018, 12:34:01 PM »

Ahmad ibn Idris from Muhamad ibn 'Abdul-Jabbar from al-Hassan ibn 'Ali from Tha'alabah ibn Maymoun from Zurarah ibn A'ayun that he said: I asked Imam al-Baqir (as) a question so the Imam gave me the answer then another man came and asked the same question so the Imam gave him a different answer, then another one came and asked about it so the Imam gave him a completely different answer than both of us. when both men left I asked the Imam: "O son of Rassul Allah, two men from 'Iraq and from your Shia came to ask you but you gave each of them different answers." He replied: "O Zurarah, this is good for us so that we may remain safer because if you all agree on this then the people will believe in it and they would be guided to us but we will not remain for long."
Later I said to his son al-Sadiq (as): "Your Shia always walk away from you with different opinions and answers" so he gave me the same reply as his father.
source: al-Kafi 1/65.
al-Majlisi said: Muwaththaq like the Sahih.
al-Behbudi said: Sahih.
Ali ibn Ibrahim from his father from ibn abi Najran from 'Assim bin Humayd from Mansour ibn Hazim who said: I said to al-Sadiq (as): "What is the matter with you, I ask a question and you give me an answer then another man comes and asks it so you give him a completely different one?" The Imam replied: "we answer people in matters of addition and deletion." I said to him: "Then tell me about the companions of Rassul-Allah SAWS do they narrate truthful narrations or do they lie?" the Imam said: "They are truthful" I asked: "Why did they differ?" he replied: "Do you not know that a man used to come to Rassul-Allah SAWS and ask a question then he answers him but later he would answer to the same question differently because the Ahadith they abrogate each other."
source: al-Kafi 1/65.
al-Majlisi said: Hasan.

I know this narration, but correct me if im wrong, this was at his shia gathering, not in public like prophets masjid right?

wannabe

Re: Imam Ja'far Teachings
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2018, 03:03:17 AM »
i found this saying attributed to imam ali, which i can find no fault with it, AFAIK.
Quote
Those that tell you traditions will be of four types – there won’t be a fifth one.
One will be a hypocrite who will portray Iman and is a Muslim just to show. He does not think it is bad, or a sin, to relate false things to the Holy Prophet (S.A.W) intentionally. If Muslims knew he was a liar, a hypocrite, then they would not accept what he said was true.
But they said he is a companion of the Holy Prophet (S.A.W), they have seen him, heard tradition from him, he does not lie and does not think it lawful to relate a lie to the Holy Prophet (S.A.W). Whereas the information that Allah has given about hypocrites, He has given and He has described his attributes that he has. Allah Tabarak WAT’Ala has said: And when you see them, their persons will please you, and if
they speak, you will listen to their speech; (Surah Munafiqun:4).
These people in the end stayed alive and became nearer to the imams who deviated them and, near to those who called them towards Hell through deceit, lie, hypocrisy, and accusation. So they made them leaders and let them ride on the backs of people and in this world, through them, fed themselves. And people are with Kings except those whom Allah saves. So this is one of the four types.
There is another who heard something from the Holy Prophet (S.A.W) but he did not remember exactly what he heard and did not lie intentionally and he has what he heard from the Holy Prophet (S.A.W) and he acts on it, and says that he heard it from the Holy Prophet (S.A.W). If Muslims knew that he had any doubt, then they would not accept it. If he himself knew he was doubtful then he would leave it.
The third type is a person who heard something from the Holy Prophet (S.A.W) what he ordered and then stopped it, but the person does not know, or he heard something that was stopped and after that the Holy Prophet (S.A.W) order to do it, but the person does not know it. This person remembered Mansukh (what order has been withdrawn) and did not remember Nasikh (what is current). If he knew it was Mansukh he would leave it. If Muslims knew the order was Mansukh when they heard, they would all leave it.
The fourth is a person who did not associate any lie to Allah or His Prophet because he bore enmity towards lie, and feared Allah, respected and valued the Holy Prophet (S.A.W) and had no doubt. He remembered it the way he heard it. He did not add or leave anything out, remembered Nasikh and
Mansukh, acted on Nasikh and left Mansukh.
The order of the Holy Prophet (S.A.W) to do, and to stop, is like Quran. It is Nasikh and it is Mansukh. It is general and particular, Mohkam and Mutashabih. Sometimes there used to be two types of his talk. One used to be particular and general like Quran. He who did not know what Allah has meant and what the Holy Prophet (S.A.W) had meant also heard this.
Not all companions of the Holy Prophet (S.A.W) were of the type who would ask him and understand him. There were also those who used to ask, but did not understand until they wanted that somebody comes, or an Arabi (one who lived in the outskirts of Medina) comes and asks the Holy Prophet (S.A.W) so they would hear him.
Quote
I can understand why some hadith scholars/rijal scholars were not comfortable with Jafar Sadiq. Not because he wasn’t a scholar, but due to the narrations attributed to him & the likes of those who claimed to have narrated from him.
if i was living during that time, from whom (scholar/s) should i take my religion from, bearing in mind Quran 2:166-167?
[Shakir 2:166] When those who were followed shall renounce those who followed (them), and they see the chastisement and their ties are cut asunder.
[Shakir 2:167] And those who followed shall say: Had there been for us a return, then we would renounce them as they have renounced us. Thus will Allah show them their deeds to be intense regret to them, and they shall not come forth from the fire.

 

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