Your next fantastic post starts with this:
I think God out of wisdom didn't want to force people to accept the 12 Imams. So he put the family of Mohammad, their divine authority, and their number, in a way, that not everyone sees them and a people who see them can still deny.
That's a dumb religion I'd rather worship a tree stump, what kind of god sends a book of guidance but makes the most essential means of guidance hidden and unclear so as to not "force people" to believe in 12 Imams!? This opposes God's wisdom in the Qur'an where He directly tells people without forcing them and offers them a chance to believe or disbelieve:
{And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve."}[18:29]
Then you write:
I think this was out of wisdom to
1) Preserve the Quran without forcing people to not corrupt it through supernatural means.
Keep following the dumb arguments of your scholars and we'll see where it leads you. So Allah hid the guidance so that people may not corrupt the book, wow how counter-productive is this!? He shouldn't have criticized the Christians, Jews and Pagans while at it out of fear that they may corrupt the Book as well. This is a weak god incapable of keeping his promise of preserving his clear religion. I wonder why scholars of Hadith narrated Hadith al-Ghadir and Hadith al-Manzilah with Tawatur, they could've corrupted those as well. You Shiites always say these two texts are explicit appointments for `Ali, yet your opponents (Ahlul-Sunnah) narrate them with Tawatur and without crossing `Ali's name. So if they didn't remove `Ali's name from a Hadith, you think Allah's afraid they may corrupt His book and remove `Ali's name from a Qur'anic verse? Let alone verses that are talking about love here, this isn't a verse of appointment, it's only about loving these individuals as you claim.
2) Have Ahlulbayt as a trial.
They can't be a trial if their significance isn't made clear in Allah's book. If Allah were to say in his book "Obey `Ali and his eleven descendants" then they become a trial, but to completely and purposely ignore them (out of fear of Tahreef) and then place them as a trial is injustice.
3) If the number of Imams was explicit in Quran and not in a form of parable, then I think we would of have had various sects claiming twelve Imams and twelve successors, and there is a chance there would a different fabricated set of names of the 12 Imams...that this matter would be ultra confusing for later generations.
This has got to be your most illogical comment yet. So you're argument is that god intentionally kept things vague so that not many people may exploit them and claim them for themselves.
Wisdom dictates the exact opposite!! In fact, if this was true Allah should have explicitly and clearly stated their names so that no other frauds or imitators may claim leadership unjustly.
I add, it was exploited either way..
Read this from our old friends at ahlelbayt.com:
Hadith Exploited by Deviant Sects
A fact unknown to lay-persons is that the Hadith of the twelve Caliphs is exploited by not only the Imami Shia but by many other deviant sects. Interestingly, many of these deviant sects have a more convincing argument for their claims over that of the Imami Shia! For example, the Ibaadis–the descendants of the Khawaarij–use the Hadith of twelve Caliphs in order to validate the claims of their leaders, who were twelve in number. The Ibaadis claim that this Hadith is a “shining proof” for their twelve Caliphs, which include: Abu Bakr (رضّى الله عنه), Umar (رضّى الله عنه), Abdullah ibn Yahya al-Kindi, and the nine Ibaadi Imams of the Rustamid Dynasty.
It is interesting that the racist cult known as the Nation of Islam, headed by Elijah Muhammad, also uses the hadith of the twelve Caliphs in order to validate their sect. Elijah Muhammad, their supposed Messenger, claimed that their founder, W.D. Fard, was one of the twelve Imams:
Now there are twelve (12) Imams or Scientists, who have been ruling all the time, and one of the twelve is always greater than the other eleven (11)
(Muhammad Speaks Newspaper)
If a deviant group like the Nation of Islam can use the hadith of the twelve Caliphs, then we are not at all surprised when the twelver Shias use it as as a “proof”. Another deviant sect which did in fact lay claim to the Hadith of the twelve Caliphs and use it to bring themselves to power were the Zaydis. We read:
The Zaydites also used these traditions (Hadith) in their attempts to gain control
(The Occultation of the Twelfth Imam: A Historical Background, by Dr. Jassim M. Hussain, p.154)
A group from amongst the Zaydis revered twelve Imams, but they believed in a different set of twelve Imams than the Imami Shia. These Zaydis believed in the first four of the Imams of the Imami Shia, but they disagreed with the Imami Shia as to who the other eight of them were. This group of Zaydis, like the Sunnis, believed that the Caliphate was not limited to twelve, but the Zaydis argued that the twelfth would be Al-Qa’im and he would lead an armed and political insurrection. A similar view was held by another heretical sect, namely that of the Ismailis who used the Hadith of the twelve Caliphs in order to further their own set of Imams. And there were many other deviant groups who used the Hadith of the twelve Caliphs–and other Hadith in regards to Imam Mehdi–in order to bring themselves to power. We read:
(These traditions were used by) numerous Islamic groups, particularly the Zaydites, in their struggle for power during the Umayyad period (which) shows that these traditions (Hadith) were well-known among the Muslims of that period.
(The Occultation of the Twelfth Imam: A Historical Background, by Dr. Jassim M. Hussain, p.18)
So we see that the Hadith of the twelve Caliphs and others like it were well-known by all Muslims back then and that deviant groups often used them in order to advance themselves politically. We read:
But political rivalry amongst the Muslims encouraged some people to exploit this hope and to distort these Prophetic traditions (Hadith) in order to use them in their struggle for power.
(The Occultation of the Twelfth Imam: A Historical Background, by Dr. Jassim M. Hussain, p.18)
We read:
The Prophetic traditions concerning the twelve Imams related by the Sunnite and the Zaydite traditionists were also narrated by the Imamites. They applied these traditions to their twelve Imams and added traditions of the Imams themselves.
(The Occultation of the Twelfth Imam: A Historical Background, by Dr. Jassim M. Hussain, p.21)
And we read, right from the mouth of this Shia historian himself, the following:
These traditions (Hadith) were used by many Shi’ite groups to back up the claims of their leaders who aspired to power
(The Occultation of the Twelfth Imam: A Historical Background, by Dr. Jassim M. Hussain, p.2)
The Hadith of the twelve Caliphs is so vague and obscure that it allows almost any group to exploit it and use it to further their own cause; it simply necessitates allocating a group of twelve leaders and then saying that the Hadith refers to them. We read:
This obscurity allowed some ‘Alids to use these traditions (Hadith) to support their own political aims
(The Occultation of the Twelfth Imam: A Historical Background, by Dr. Jassim M. Hussain, p.154)
The exploitation of this Hadith was not at all limited to Imami Shia. We read:
Like the Imamites, the Ismailis had reported the (same) Prophetic traditions (Hadith)…however, they interpreted some of these traditions (Hadith) in a manner which would support their struggle to gain immediate success in North Africa. Furthermore they applied other traditions (Hadith) narrated by the Imamites about al-Qa’im al-Mahdi to their own concealed leader
(The Occultation of the Twelfth Imam: A Historical Background, by Dr. Jassim M. Hussain, p.111)
The Hadith was also exploited by a group known as the Qaramita. We read:
The Qaramita’s use of the Prophetic traditions (Hadith)…in their struggle to gain immediate political success…
(The Occultation of the Twelfth Imam: A Historical Background, by Dr. Jassim M. Hussain, p.116)
In fact, it was not only the Hadith of the twelve Caliphs which were exploited by the Shia but also many other Hadith which prophecized the coming of Imam Mehdi. We read:
He also traces the use of the prophetic traditions (Hadith) regarding al-Qa’im al-Mahdi by these groups in their struggle for power
(The Occultation of the Twelfth Imam: A Historical Background, by Dr. Jassim M. Hussain, p.11)
We read further:
Between the years 245-260/859-874 the Imamite and Zaydite traditionists were relating traditions stating that al-Qa’im would be the twelfth Imam and urging people to join his side when he rose.
(The Occultation of the Twelfth Imam: A Historical Background, by Dr. Jassim M. Hussain, p.29)
On numerous occassions did groups of Shia exploit the Sunni Hadith in order to claim for themselves political supremacy. We read:
The spread of such narrations (Hadith) encouraged the Imamites to expect the rise of al-Qa’im in the near future and to link his rising with Abbasid rule. Some of them applied these traditions (Hadith) along with others concerning the signs of the rise of al-Qa’im to the circumstances surrounding the ‘Alid revolt which broke out in 250/864. Ibn ‘Uqba relates that the leader of the rebellion, Yahya b. Umar, was expected to be al-Qa’im al-Mahdi, since all the signs concerning the rise of al-Qa’im al-Mahdi related by al-Sadiq occurred during the revolt.
(The Occultation of the Twelfth Imam: A Historical Background, by Dr. Jassim M. Hussain, p.29)
We read further:
It appears, however, that the Abbasid oppression did not deter the Shi’ite ambition to reach power. Many historians like al-Isfahani report that ‘Alid revolts broke out in 250-1/864-5 in the areas of Kufa, Tabaristan, Rayy, Qazwin, Egypt, and Hijaz. These might have been directed by one group, or to be more accurate, by one leader. It is beyond the scope of this work to deal with the details of these revolts, but it is worth mentioning that the rebels employed the Prophetic traditions (Hadith) concerning al-Qa’im al-Mahdi and the signs of his rising to achieve immediate political success.
(The Occultation of the Twelfth Imam: A Historical Background, by Dr. Jassim M. Hussain, p.52)
This game of playing with Hadith was also played by Caliph al-Mansoor, who named his son “Muhammad al-Mahdi”. We read:
Moreover he (Caliph al-Mansoor) invested his successor Muhammad with the epithet “al-Mahdi” in order to turn the attention of his subjects from the ‘Alid family toward the family of Abbas.
(The Occultation of the Twelfth Imam: A Historical Background, by Dr. Jassim M. Hussain, p.28)
Elaborating on this point, the Shia author states:
It is reported that the Prophet said, “The Mahdi is from my progeny. His name is similar to mine.” (al-Tirmidhi)…perhaps al-Mansur took this point into account when he called his son, “Muhammad al-Mahdi” (al-Bidaya)
(The Occultation of the Twelfth Imam: A Historical Background, by Dr. Jassim M. Hussain, p.165)
What is interesting is that at first many of the Shia referred to Hasan al-Askari’s mysterious son by the name “Ali” as opposed to “Muhammad”. However, the Shia later decided to switch to “Muhammad” so that it would more fully apply to the mainstream Muslim collection of Hadith which state that Muhammad is the name of Imam Mehdi. We read:
They thought that he (the eleventh Imam) had left a successor whose name was not Muhammad but Ali. They said that al-Askari had no son except Ali, who had been seen by his father’s trustworthy followers.
(The Occultation of the Twelfth Imam: A Historical Background, by Dr. Jassim M. Hussain, p.63)
So we see that the Imami Shia were very adamant about lining up their beliefs so that they would find legitimacy in Sunni Hadith. It is therefore all too convenient that the Shia can now point to these Hadith as some sort of proof for Shi’ism.
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August 01, 2015, 04:07:54 AM
