The shia did not believe in Infallibility of their imams.

[Proud Muslimah]

THE SHIA DID NOT BELIEVE IN THE INFALLIBILITY OF THEIR IMAMS.(proofs from shia books)

The renowned Shia scholar of Hadith al-Shaheed al-Thani says in his book "Haqaeq al-Iman" pages
150-152:

"What is apparent from the condition of their Shia who
lived in their time and narrated from them the Ahadeeth
may peace be upon them, that MANY OF THEM did not
believe in their infallibility because it was hidden from
them but they used to believe that the Imams were
pious obedient scholars, anyone who follows their
stories and narrations knows this"

after a few lines he says:
"How!? they were hidden and isolated at all times and
they practised taqiyyah most of the time, so they
couldn't tell even their closest followers about their
Imamah let alone the others, the books of Rijal and the
Ahadeeth are proof of this"

ﻗﺎﻝ ﺍﻟﻤﺎﻣﻘﺎﻧﻲ ﻓﻲ ﻛﺘﺎﺑﻪ ‏( ﺗﻨﻘﻴﺢ ﺍﻟﻤﻘﺎﻝ ‏) 6 / 340 : ﻟﻜﻦ ﻗﻮﻝ
ﺍﺑﻦ ﺍﻟﻐﻀﺎﺋﺮﻱ ﻳﻮﻫﻢ ﻗﺒﻮﻝ ﺭﻭﺍﻳﺘﻪ ﺗﺎﺭﺓ ، ﻭﻻ ﻳﺒﻌﺪ ﺃﻧّﻬﻢ ﻛﺎﻧﻮﺍ
ﻳﻘﺒﻠﻮﻥ ﺭﻭﺍﻳﺎﺗﻪ ﺍﻟﺨﺎﻟﻴﺔ ﻣﻦ ﺍﻟﻐﻠﻮّ ﻭﻳﺘﺮﻛﻮﻥ ﻣﺎ ﻛﺎﻥ ﻓﻴﻪ ﻏﻠﻮّ.
ﻭﺣﻴﺚ ﺇﻥّ ﺍﻟﻐﻠﻮّ ﻋﻨﺪ ﺍﻟﻘﺪﻣﺎﺀ ﻳﻨﺴﺐ ﺇﻟﻰ ﺍﻟﺮﺟﻞ ﺑﺄﺩﻧﻰ ﺷﻲﺀ ،
ﺑﻞ ﺃﻛﺜﺮ ﻣﺎ ﻧﻌﺘﻘﺪﻩ ﺍﻵﻥ ﻓﻲ ﺃﻫﻞ ﺍﻟﺒﻴﺖ ﻋﻠﻴﻬﻢ ﺍﻟﺴﻼﻡ ﻛﺎﻧﻮﺍ
ﻳﻮﻣﺌﺬ ﻳﺴﻤّﻮﻧﻪ ﻏﻠﻮّﺍً . ﺃ. ﻫــ
Shia scholar al-Mamaqani says in his book "Tanqeeh
al-Maqal" volume 6 page 340:

"Our predecessors used to ascribe Ghulu to the
smallest things, in fact the majority of the things we
believe in today regarding Ahlul-Bayt peace be upon
them used to be called Ghulu by our predecessors."

[Rationalist]

Yah I think even Kamal Haydari said the infallibility attribution came in after the 3rd century.

[sameer]

shia answer: what is the authenticity of these scholar's wordings..?  may be they were forced to say such and such under the gun point "taqiya"

[Furkan]

The taqiyah-card again?

[Ameen]

shia answer: what is the authenticity of these scholar's wordings..?  may be they were forced to say such and such under the gun point "taqiya"

Take a look at today's governments in Muslim countries, how and what they do to stay and remain in power. Abusing and torturing their oppositions and rivals, eliminating anything or anyone they see as an imminent threat.

How the eleven Shia Imams lived and were treated along with their family, friends and supporters is all there to be witnessed. I leave you with the big question,

When Abu Bakar became Khalif, why did he place a ban on gathering and collecting hadiths??? Why was the Ummah kept from this important treasure (hadiths)

[Hani]

^ You have to go off-topic in every single thread? What does the writing down of Ahadith have to do with infallibility?

Read this on the writing of prophetic Hadith:
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?327041-Writing-of-prophetic-narrations-and-knowledge-during-the-days-of-the-companions-(raa)

[HughSlaman]

Let me go off topic a little bit, as I have not been back here for a while.
This discussion board is still running, so that means the infallible Twelfth Imam has not emerged from his well/hole in Samarra yet, I assume?
Just checking....
Salam Alaykum

^ You have to go off-topic in every single thread? What does the writing down of Ahadith have to do with infallibility?

Read this on the writing of prophetic Hadith:
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?327041-Writing-of-prophetic-narrations-and-knowledge-during-the-days-of-the-companions-(raa)

[Hadrami]

THE SHIA DID NOT BELIEVE IN THE INFALLIBILITY OF THEIR IMAMS.(proofs from shia books)

The renowned Shia scholar of Hadith al-Shaheed al-Thani says in his book "Haqaeq al-Iman" pages
150-152:

"What is apparent from the condition of their Shia who
lived in their time and narrated from them the Ahadeeth
may peace be upon them, that MANY OF THEM did not
believe in their infallibility because it was hidden from
them but they used to believe that the Imams were
pious obedient scholars, anyone who follows their
stories and narrations knows this"

after a few lines he says:
"How!? they were hidden and isolated at all times and
they practised taqiyyah most of the time, so they
couldn't tell even their closest followers about their
Imamah let alone the others, the books of Rijal and the
Ahadeeth are proof of this"

because the infallibles who are suppose to guide their followers love to misguide them. Ahadith which are considered taqiyah also testify to their habit of misguiding people around them. Alhamdulillah our Ahlulbait (the original, the Sunni, not fake shia ones) are not like that.

[Ameen]

^ You have to go off-topic in every single thread? What does the writing down of Ahadith have to do with infallibility?

Read this on the writing of prophetic Hadith:
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?327041-Writing-of-prophetic-narrations-and-knowledge-during-the-days-of-the-companions-(raa)

I don't go off topic. You just have developed a habit of accusing me, since you can't find anything else. If you ever bother to look, I only respond to what is being said.

[Furkan]

Ignore him ^

[Ameen]

Let me go off topic a little bit, as I have not been back here for a while.
This discussion board is still running, so that means the infallible Twelfth Imam has not emerged from his well/hole in Samarra yet, I assume?
Just checking....
Salam Alaykum

^ You have to go off-topic in every single thread? What does the writing down of Ahadith have to do with infallibility?

Read this on the writing of prophetic Hadith:
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?327041-Writing-of-prophetic-narrations-and-knowledge-during-the-days-of-the-companions-(raa)

You said,

"so that means the infallible Twelfth Imam has not emerged from his well/hole in Samarra yet, I assume?",

Why are you so worried about the 12th??? Since when did you stared believing in him??? You're from the Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'ah, so why is Islam being blamed for all the unrest around the world??? Shouldn't you be worried about and explain this??? You are the vast majority and it is your kind and people who are carrying out terrorist activities in the name of Islam. Why are you wasting your time on Shia bashing when you should be protecting Islam??? While you are Shia bashing, your kind are bashing Islam's name and dragging it through the mud, by carrying out these terrorist activities in the name of Islam. This is where your focus should be, not on the 12th.

[Khaled]

I didn't blame you. Just made a general statement. Don't direct it to yourself. If I had lost my brain I would be accusing and attacking the Ahle Sunnah from all corners, left right, and centre. I would be looking for every damn excuse I can find to put one over the Sunnis. I would be linking Sunnism to terrorism and blaming the Ahle Sunnah for all the terrorist activities going on and carried out by Muslims around the world. You very well know who has lost it.

Why are you so worried about the 12th??? Since when did you stared believing in him??? You're from the Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'ah, so why is Islam being blamed for all the unrest around the world??? Shouldn't you be worried about and explain this??? You are the vast majority and it is your kind and people who are carrying out terrorist activities in the name of Islam. Why are you wasting your time on Shia bashing when you should be protecting Islam??? While you are Shia bashing, your kind are bashing Islam's name and dragging it through the mud, by carrying out these terrorist activities in the name of Islam. This is where your focus should be, not on the 12th.

LOL, you are trolling, you have to be

[Ameen]

I didn't blame you. Just made a general statement. Don't direct it to yourself. If I had lost my brain I would be accusing and attacking the Ahle Sunnah from all corners, left right, and centre. I would be looking for every damn excuse I can find to put one over the Sunnis. I would be linking Sunnism to terrorism and blaming the Ahle Sunnah for all the terrorist activities going on and carried out by Muslims around the world. You very well know who has lost it.

Why are you so worried about the 12th??? Since when did you stared believing in him??? You're from the Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'ah, so why is Islam being blamed for all the unrest around the world??? Shouldn't you be worried about and explain this??? You are the vast majority and it is your kind and people who are carrying out terrorist activities in the name of Islam. Why are you wasting your time on Shia bashing when you should be protecting Islam??? While you are Shia bashing, your kind are bashing Islam's name and dragging it through the mud, by carrying out these terrorist activities in the name of Islam. This is where your focus should be, not on the 12th.

LOL, you are trolling, you have to be

Just putting some painful facts forward to you. Just showing you the mirror.

[Khaled]

Just putting some painful facts forward to you. Just showing you the mirror.

The painful fact is that you, "lost [your] brain [because you are] accusing and attacking the Ahle Sunnah from all corners, left right, and centre."

You are out of your element, akh

[Ameen]

Just putting some painful facts forward to you. Just showing you the mirror.

The painful fact is that you, "lost [your] brain [because you are] accusing and attacking the Ahle Sunnah from all corners, left right, and centre."

You are out of your element, akh

If I had actually lost my brain then that is exactly what I would be doing. And that is attacking the Ahle Sunnah just as you are attacking the Shia. Read the posts carefully and with your eyes open before responding.

[Furkan]

You can't defend your silly religion, so how are you gonna accuse ahlu sunnah of things, oh wait I forgot you guys are good at accusing but bad at proving something. My mistake :-)

[Ameen]

You can't defend your silly religion, so how are you gonna accuse ahlu sunnah of things, oh wait I forgot you guys are good at accusing but bad at proving something. My mistake :-)

That's what you think. And look who's talking, someone who can't even tell, talk and discuss his own school of thought because he is so terribly afraid of being caught out and ending up in an embarrassing position. The only way you survive is what you are doing. And that is accusing and abusing the Shias. Well what else can you do when your belief and faith has no justification and is based on Khilafath, no matter how it came about and who ever got in.

[Hani]

Usually everything we accuse the Shia of is accurate and thus abusing them is justified.

[HughSlaman]

Let me go off topic a little bit, as I have not been back here for a while.
This discussion board is still running, so that means the infallible Twelfth Imam has not emerged from his well/hole in Samarra yet, I assume?
Just checking....
Salam Alaykum

^ You have to go off-topic in every single thread? What does the writing down of Ahadith have to do with infallibility?

Read this on the writing of prophetic Hadith:
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?327041-Writing-of-prophetic-narrations-and-knowledge-during-the-days-of-the-companions-(raa)

You said,

"so that means the infallible Twelfth Imam has not emerged from his well/hole in Samarra yet, I assume?",

Why are you so worried about the 12th??? Since when did you stared believing in him??? You're from the Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'ah, so why is Islam being blamed for all the unrest around the world??? Shouldn't you be worried about and explain this??? You are the vast majority and it is your kind and people who are carrying out terrorist activities in the name of Islam. Why are you wasting your time on Shia bashing when you should be protecting Islam??? While you are Shia bashing, your kind are bashing Islam's name and dragging it through the mud, by carrying out these terrorist activities in the name of Islam. This is where your focus should be, not on the 12th.

Calm down, my brother!
I just wanted to know if the Twelfth Imam had emerged yet from his hole or wherever it is he is supposed to be hiding.
I mean, he now has a state to back him up, in Iran, which itself has powerful allies like Russia and China. What is the problem with his emergence now, since he is alive and knows what is going on?
If he comes out, and can prove he is who he says he is, he can end all the terrorism in the name of Islam very quickly; at least before he ends up getting killed by some bearded woman from the Banu Tamim.
So what is the problem, exactly?

[Furkan]

The problem is the amount of khums money not being high enough yet.