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The Twelve Caliphs hadiths.

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The Twelve Caliphs hadiths.
« on: June 10, 2017, 08:49:12 AM »
Peace be upon those who follow the guidance....
...for indeed the punishment is upon those who turn away from it.


There are many versions of this hadith but the one that Farid ended up picking are the versions with stating Islam or the Affair won't cease to be great until we had Twelve rulers.

There are several problems with his interpretation.

1.

All over the World, there are people who are followed out of a belief they hold political authority over them.  The Quran goes to great lengths to show that Satan tricks people to fear other than God and perceive other than God as True King.

This is the first question. Was Rasool talking about false rulers? False Kings? 

2.

Another issue is that what kind of prophecy is this when Quranic Surahs are looked at. Many verses are emphasizing on the Muslims to not turn on their backs and to act out the commands of God and his Messenger so that a good result comes about.

This fatalist prophecy that ISLAM was going to only stay strong for duration of twelve rulers, quite frankly doesn't make sense.

3.

Strength and greatness are relative statements.

It can refer to the strength of truth being apparent and manifest, but even that is relative.  The Quran talks about the sign being hidden to an extent from the world and to wait till it becomes manifest.   So a person looks at the confusion and thinks the truth is not apparent, but it might be a testification that the truth is strong and the religion has a strong base.  The Quran verifies despite Bani-Israel abandoning the chosen leaders they were assigned, there were clear proofs of the affair and hence we can say from this point of view,  despite the oppression face, despite the mix of falsehood with truth and corruption of revelations, the affair ( the religion of Islam) had clear proofs during that time.

Another verse that shows this to be true is saying how can they not hold on to God and be mislead while the Messenger is among them reciting God's signs....so as long as one his Twelve successors are there, then it is guaranteed to remain strong.

3.

Fatalist attitude....

The Quran shows there was alternative destiny then the nation chose as there were alternative destinies Bani-Israel chose.  Although it was written they would cause great corruption in the earth, this was conditional if they turned on their backs which they did.  The same is written in Quran. That there would be great chaos and mischief in the earth if we fail to fulfill the revelation and many verses showing we would follow the tracks of those before us.

However the Quran doesn't destine the Muslims nor Torah destine Bani-Israel to abandon the book, rather, it emphasized not to break God's covenant and fulfill it.

The Quran likewise emphasized to the Muslims not to turn on their backs especially if the Rasool would die or be killed.

4.

"will rule over you"

If you believe God rules your soul and rules humanity, than those given God's authority naturally rule humanity.  Define rulership in any way possible and you will see it's a logical fallacy to apply it to the Taghut as opposed to the Leaders appointed by God.


5.

Verse 5:12 alludes to Twelve Captains that sail the boat the name of God with the covenant and other verses show the covenant emphasis was to follow and believe in God's Messengers after Moses.

the words of the Rasool COMPLIMENT Quran and there is no time to waste to state anything not complimentary to someway to Quran to the people.

The fact is the Rasool is teaching Quran through his words, and when he mentions twelve, he is teaching the significance of it in Quran.


6.

Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "The Israelis used to be ruled and guided by prophets: Whenever a prophet died, another would take over his place. There will be no prophet after me, but there will be Caliphs who will increase in number." The people asked, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! What do you order us (to do)?" He said, "Obey the one who will be given the pledge of allegiance first. Fulfil their (i.e. the Caliphs) rights, for Allah will ask them about in ruling those Allah has put under their guardianship."

حَدَّثَنِي مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ بَشَّارٍ، حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ جَعْفَرٍ، حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، عَنْ فُرَاتٍ الْقَزَّازِ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ أَبَا حَازِمٍ، قَالَ قَاعَدْتُ أَبَا هُرَيْرَةَ خَمْسَ سِنِينَ، فَسَمِعْتُهُ يُحَدِّثُ، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ كَانَتْ بَنُو إِسْرَائِيلَ تَسُوسُهُمُ الأَنْبِيَاءُ، كُلَّمَا هَلَكَ نَبِيٌّ خَلَفَهُ نَبِيٌّ، وَإِنَّهُ لاَ نَبِيَّ بَعْدِي، وَسَيَكُونُ خُلَفَاءُ فَيَكْثُرُونَ‏.‏ قَالُوا فَمَا تَأْمُرُنَا قَالَ فُوا بِبَيْعَةِ الأَوَّلِ فَالأَوَّلِ، أَعْطُوهُمْ حَقَّهُمْ، فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ سَائِلُهُمْ عَمَّا اسْتَرْعَاهُمْ ‏"‏‏


This hadith basically says:

The Prophets use to have Prophets who had authority over the people and guided the people.
There would be no Prophets but there would be successors, one would take the place of the other in having authority and guiding the people.
They would increase in number and we know the number for both is Twelve per other hadiths, so this means that some of the successors were alive during Rasool time and were destined to succeed Rasool, and the amount would increase (meaning the rest were yet to be born).

The hadith is clear it's comparing the Prophets position with their guiding and leading role over Bani-Israel and that while there are no Prophets there are successors.

Rasool says if you fullfill the right of the first one, everything, will become manifest.

He will ask them about their authority and right of leadership that is the successors will be asked regarding how their authority over people took place and how people reacted.

We see in Quran Nabi Isa is asked regarding if he commanded people wrongly and so this hadith compliments this in that it shows all successors will be asked about how they fullfilled the right on the day of judgment and we see Isa is asked that to show people had no reason to worship others then God and that it was not the fault of Nabi Isa.

The Imams likewise did the best to teach people and fullfilled their role, but people neglected their rights.


This hadith shows beyond doubt that the Rasool was succeeded by people in leading and guiding just as Prophets succeeded Moses and succeeded one another.

Who took place of the Rasool? There is no nabi but here he emphasized having authority over the people and guiding them.



« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 08:50:37 AM by Link »
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Hani

Re: The Twelve Caliphs hadiths.
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2017, 09:54:00 AM »
I like that 12 captains are sailing a single boat, well I guess that makes you guys sailors! Ahoy matey!
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Link

Re: The Twelve Caliphs hadiths.
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2017, 10:27:59 AM »
I like that 12 captains are sailing a single boat, well I guess that makes you guys sailors! Ahoy matey!

Whenever you are ready to stop taking God's religion as a game and stop following those who took as it is a play thing and game...let us know.
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Hadrami

Re: The Twelve Caliphs hadiths.
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2017, 01:45:22 PM »
I wonder with your fascination with this "captain" personality. Were you a fan of captain caveman cartoon character when you were a kid? Your fake rubbish religion with fake captain personality whose birth was witnessed by another fake personality deserve to be ridiculed. You once said you had mental health problem, so I used to feel sorry for you, but now I think you deserve this joke of a religion.

Link

Re: The Twelve Caliphs hadiths.
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2017, 02:50:29 PM »
The Leader is purified from sins and free from defects, is given exclusive knowledge, is characterized with forbearance, is the order of the religion, is the Stronghold of the believers, is the cause of anger of the hypocrites, and the perdition of the unbelievers. - Imam Reda.
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Hadrami

Re: The Twelve Caliphs hadiths.
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2017, 04:14:35 PM »
The Leader is purified from sins and free from defects, is given exclusive knowledge, is characterized with forbearance, is the order of the religion, is the Stronghold of the believers, is the cause of anger of the hypocrites, and the perdition of the unbelievers. - Imam Reda.

ar-Ridha was real, born & existed, your hocus pocus 12th one dont. He was just a fictional character created by khums mafia to fool retard with a mental health issue like you. If he does exist then the least he should do is to tell Sistani & Shirazi to start ramadan on the same day this year. What a useless guide 😂
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 04:16:05 PM by Hadrami »

Hani

Re: The Twelve Caliphs hadiths.
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2017, 04:25:56 AM »
The Leader is purified from sins and free from defects, is given exclusive knowledge, is characterized with forbearance, is the order of the religion, is the Stronghold of the believers, is the cause of anger of the hypocrites, and the perdition of the unbelievers. - Imam Reda.

You don't even know your own narrations, the Hadith is incomplete: Imam Réza says: "The Leader is purified from sins and free from defects, is given exclusive knowledge, is characterized with forbearance AND is specifically unavailable, inaccessible nor can any of this be verified unless you have blind faith."

Eitherway, you posting this gives me the feeling that what I said angered you, try not to be angered otherwise you resemble the hypocrites in the above Hadith.

« Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 07:09:03 AM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hani

Re: The Twelve Caliphs hadiths.
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2017, 07:11:44 AM »
The Leader is purified from sins and free from defects, is given exclusive knowledge, is characterized with forbearance, is the order of the religion, is the Stronghold of the believers, is the cause of anger of the hypocrites, and the perdition of the unbelievers. - Imam Reda.

ar-Ridha was real, born & existed, your hocus pocus 12th one dont. He was just a fictional character created by khums mafia to fool retard with a mental health issue like you. If he does exist then the least he should do is to tell Sistani & Shirazi to start ramadan on the same day this year. What a useless guide 😂

The amount of guidance and leadership they're getting from this Captain is baffling. I sure do feel jealous of him, he has the best version of the Qur'an available, unlike the half-assed compilation made by the enemies of the captains of Ahlulbayt.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

 

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