TwelverShia.net Forum
Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Imamah-Ghaybah => Topic started by: Rationalist on January 24, 2016, 12:38:45 AM
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Salaam Link
In the other discussion you said "Just as God safeguarded the Quran, in the same, he has safeguarded that there is only one real set of hadiths naming all Imams that coincides with the number given by the Nabi. Not with standing copyist errors that might make the number of Imams 13 or 11 when the intended 12 but miscalculated, the number is only 12."
What is your opinion about those who say the Quran is incomplete? You are trying to bring guidance for non-12ers to accept the Imamate of 12. If we don't accept that they are divinely appointed then we are kaffir. Now what about the Quran. What if someone believes in the 12 Imams but says the Quran was not safeguarded? Are they kaffir, non-momins, non-Muslims, hypocrites? Please present your views.
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Walaikom asalam
It depends if they understand the wisdom of why the Quran must be safeguarded or not, and reject with knowledge or don't. The same is true of Imammate. People who the proof has not become manifest are not disbelievers.
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In another words the Quran says its protected and one still has room to deny it.
Yet the Quran says nothing about 12 Imams and one still supposed to find proof gathered from fallible men?
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It was logic like agha Link's that put me off Shiaism. Sounded too far fetched :/
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The 12er Shia scholars studied under the Mutazilla and started mixing the beliefs of the Mutazilla with Rafidism. Now this brother comes in and expects us to accept his claims through his rationality. Yet I on the contrary, want to search for the so called truth which is narrated by the 12 Imam in the 12er Shia books. On the contrary, all I see is a history of Rafidis narrators who were oppressed by tyrants for claiming to attach themselves to the Ahlul bayt. In additions due to their invented many romantic narrations and attributed them toward the Imams of Ahlul Bayt.
Why did the 12er Shia scholars say the Quran is incomplete? The reason is simple because supposedly the proof for the 12 Imam is not in there.