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Verse 37:130

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Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2017, 09:39:49 PM »
That is missing the point of the intro to the Surah before and the re-emphasis of the Surah after, and how it's manifestly interlinked.

I gave you the view presented by a qualified Shia Mufassir and a Shia Translator.  Aal does mean followers and it even includes wives btw. Refer the link I gave for further proofs.

Link

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2017, 10:15:01 PM »
I have yet to see a Sunni who deeply studies the religion and remains honest.

This is one reason I cannot take seriously the ratings of Rijaal of Sunni scholars.

The Quran has an "Ahlulbayt" verse regarding Ibrahim, and it has one regarding Mohammad. The one with respect to the family of Abraham does so when it heavily contrasts between true family of Nuh and his son who is considered to not be.
It also emphasizes that Sarah was given knews of Isaac which was ironic and funny with her laugh.

We see Salawat taught by Nabi is to bless Mohammad and the family Mohammad in remembering that Abraham and the family of Abraham were similarly to be blessed by God.

Talut inherited from the family of Moses and Aeron, not their followers.


Aside from all this, the Prophet is reported to have said "I remind you by God of my the people of my household" three times after emphasizing his two legacies he was leaving behind, and what is the Prophet meant to do and what is he himself? The Prophet is a reminder and reminds people, the Quran is a reminder.....

And he emphasizes on it three times.

God have mercy on us and give us love towards the near kin of the seal of Prophets.

Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Abu Muhammad

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2017, 01:49:53 AM »
You should also remember that if the blessing is on the family of Yaseen, it must also include Zainab, Ruqayyah and Ummu Kulthum, the other 3 daughters of Yaseen.  ;)

If you say Ali r.a. is part of Aali Yassen,  then Uthman r.a. must also be part of Aali Yaseen as well since he married to two of the daughters of Yaseen.   ;)

Yaseen is chosen by God, Nuh is chosen by God, Abraham is chosen by God, Moses and Aeron are chosen by God. Elyas is chosen by God. Lut is chosen by God. The Messengers are chosen by God.

The family of Yaseen being specially emphasized in this Surah, are no doubt all chosen by God.

This is emphasizing that the family of Yaseen are as well a means to peace.

Chosen by Allah for what?

Let us see the ayahs, shall we?

سَلَامٌ عَلَىٰ إِلْ يَاسِينَ
"Peace  upon  Elias (or Aali Yaseen as per other qiraat)."

Chosen to receive blessing from Allah? I have no problem with that.

For guiding humanity. As it's obvious, the whole theme is about those chosen to guide humanity.

Aaa... if that is the case, Uthman must also be one of the chosen one as well!   ;)

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2017, 02:20:56 AM »
I have yet to see a Sunni who deeply studies the religion and remains honest.

This is one reason I cannot take seriously the ratings of Rijaal of Sunni scholars.
and yet you claim to take Quran transmitted by Sunnis seriously. Even though it goes against the hadeeth of honest Shia narrations which mentions certain verses to be revealed differently.

Quote
The Quran has an "Ahlulbayt" verse regarding Ibrahim, and it has one regarding Mohammad. The one with respect to the family of Abraham does so when it heavily contrasts between true family of Nuh and his son who is considered to not be.
It also emphasizes that Sarah was given knews of Isaac which was ironic and funny with her laugh.
Ironically both the examples you cited for Ahlulbayt, is in relation to the WIVES of the person, refer 11:72-73 and 33:32-33.

As for expelling the son of Nuh(as) from the family of Nuh, then it rightly points out that he was a DISBELIEVER. No where does it mentions that he was a believer but a normal believer, or less righteous believer, but because he wasn't infallible or chosen he was expelled from Ahlulbayt or not saved, no one ever held such a view. And at the same time you see Sara(as) the wife of Ibrahim(as) who was not infallible not chosen to Imam, but a righteous believer , she was called Ahlulbayt.
So the examples you used goes perfectly in the line of Sunni view.

Quote
We see Salawat taught by Nabi is to bless Mohammad and the family Mohammad....
O yeah we see it:

اللَّهُمَّ صَلِّ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ وَأَزْوَاجِهِ وَذُرِّيَّتِهِ كَمَا صَلَّيْتَ عَلَى آلِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَبَارِكْ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ وَأَزْوَاجِهِ وَذُرِّيَّتِهِ كَمَا بَارَكْتَ عَلَى آلِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ إِنَّكَ حَمِيدٌ مَجِيدٌ

Abu Humaid as−Sa’idi reported: They (the Companions of the Holy Prophet) said: Apostle of Allah, how should we bless you? He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Say:” O Allah! bless Muhammad, his wives and his offspring as Thou didst bless Ibrahim, and grant favours to Muhammad, and his wives and his offspring as Thou didst grant favours to the aal of Ibrahim; Thou art Praiseworthy and Glorious.” (Sahi muslim Bk 4, Number 0807).

Quote
Talut inherited from the family of Moses and Aeron, not their followers.
how and what did he? Was he related to them biologically?

Quote
Aside from all this, the Prophet is reported to have said "I remind you by God of my the people of my household" three times after emphasizing his two legacies he was leaving behind, and what is the Prophet meant to do and what is he himself? The Prophet is a reminder and reminds people, the Quran is a reminder.....
This had a context and it was when people objected to the Khums(portion dedicated for his family members ) when Ali took it, this made Prophet(saws) remind people that they should take care of his family, since his family members weren't eligible to receive charity either.

Quote
God have mercy on us and give us love towards the near kin of the seal of Prophets.
Ameen
« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 02:24:52 AM by Noor-us-Sunnah »

Link

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2017, 04:27:40 AM »
Quote
And at the same time you see Sara(as) the wife of Ibrahim(as) who was not infallible

Where do I see that? The whole talk before and after suggests she is an infallible.

1. Isaac and Jacob are mentioned.
2. She is grouped with such individuals.
3. The Quran says God chose the family of Abraham above the worlds.
4. She is mentioned to belong to a family that is blessed and who extensive mercy of God is upon.

What makes you think she is not chosen like Mariam? She gave birth in old age and was a vehicle of a miracle of God.

And as for "wives and offspring", many verses show many of the offspring of Abraham were unjust.

« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 04:29:18 AM by Link »
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Link

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2017, 04:35:27 AM »
Quote
how and what did he? Was he related to them biologically?

The Quran is not over assertive in the sense it asserts things which no one can verify. It is designed to manifest the truth, with all the pieces that are very much agreed upon by all people of the book.

It pieces various fragments of the truth of what is distorted or otherwise hidden and not emphasized, and brings it together showing the way of God.

Since people of the book accepted Abraham - Isaac - Jacob - Yusuf, line, it emphasized on that.

The Quran never ever states a non-related person inherited from a founder or successors to a founder or that God ever appointed a series of guides that succeed one another that are not considered chosen family.

We see in Quran ONLY emphasis on chosen family and blood relationship between these group of chosen individuals.

« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 04:36:46 AM by Link »
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2017, 05:06:03 AM »
Quote
And at the same time you see Sara(as) the wife of Ibrahim(as) who was not infallible

Where do I see that? The whole talk before and after suggests she is an infallible.

1. Isaac and Jacob are mentioned.
2. She is grouped with such individuals.
3. The Quran says God chose the family of Abraham above the worlds.
4. She is mentioned to belong to a family that is blessed and who extensive mercy of God is upon.

What makes you think she is not chosen like Mariam? She gave birth in old age and was a vehicle of a miracle of God.

None of the virtues of sara(as) shows that she was infallible. A righteous woman can also achieve that. When Asiya the wife of firawn was declared as one of the best woman of all times that doesn't mean she was infallible. Even if I'm to assume that Sara(as) was infallible for arguments sake then that would mean that even Khadijah(ra) was also infallible. Because she was included among the best women of all times.

As for my beliefs that why don't I believe that Sara(as) was infallible is because of facts like these, which are not only in Sunni ahadeeth but Shia hadeeth as well.

We read in Shia book al-Khisal:
والمحنة في النفس حين جعل في المنجنيق وقذف به في النار، ثم المحنة في الولد حين أمر بذبح ابنه إسماعيل، ثم المحنة بالأهل حين خلص الله عز وجل حرمته من عزازة القبطي المذكور في هذه القصة ، ثم الصبر على سوء خلق سارة
Then it refers to a trial in his life when he was put in a catapult and thrown into the fire. Then it refers to a trial in his son when he was ordered to offer his son Ishmael. Then it refers to his trial through his family when the Honorable the Exalted God freed his wife from the hands of Azarat al-Qabti mentioned in history. Then it refers to his patience with the bad conduct of (his wife) Sarah. [al-Khisal, p. 308]

Similarly, We read in Shia book ilal al-shara’ie:
ان الأنبياء عليهم السلام كانت تسقط عنهم غلفهم مع سررهم يوم السابع فلما ولد لإبراهيم إسماعيل من هاجر عيرتها سارة بما تعير به الإماء، فقال: فبكت هاجر واشتد ذلك عليها، فلما رآها إسماعيل تبكي بكى لبكاءها
وسأله عن أول من خفض من النساء، فقال: هي هاجر أم إسماعيل خفضتها سارة لتخرج من يمينها، وسأله عن أول امرأة جرت ذيلها، فقال: هاجر لما هربت من سارة

Similarly in Shia book, Wasail al-Shia

وعنهم، عن أحمد بن محمد، عن علي بن الحكم، عن أبان الأحمر، عن محمد الواسطي قال: قال أبو عبد الله عليه السلام: ان إبراهيم شكى إلى الله تعالى ما يلقى من سوء خلق ساره فأوحى الله إليه إنما مثل المرأة مثل الضلع المعوج ان أقمته كسرته وان تركته استمتعت به اصبر عليها

We read in Shia book Tarjuma Maqbool, which is approved by twelve grand scholars of the sub continent.

In Tafseer Qummi, it is narrated from Imam Jafar Sadiq that Abraham was  settled in a  desert of Syria. Hajira(as) gave birth to Ismail. Sara(as) was highly saddened  by it,  that she had no child and Hajira gave  birth to a male baby. Sara would hurt Abraham alot regarding Hajira, and would aggrieve him. [Zamima Maqbool, p. 255]
« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 05:10:19 AM by Noor-us-Sunnah »

Link

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2017, 06:06:53 PM »
There are more authentic hadiths that ALL of the family of Abraham were chosen and pure in Shiite sources, then those hadiths you mentioned.

That and that meaning is confirmed in Quran.

So Sarah stands as chosen, exalted, and infallible.
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2017, 06:22:48 PM »
There are more authentic hadiths that ALL of the family of Abraham were chosen and pure in Shiite sources, then those hadiths you mentioned.

That and that meaning is confirmed in Quran.

So Sarah stands as chosen, exalted, and infallible.

You are picking & choosing which events are linked to fulfill your beliefs.
You pick & choose to link the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) to Abraham (AS) & both their households.
One can easily debunk this & instead link Jesus(AS) not leaving any offspring & the Holy Prophet (SAW) not leaving any surving male offspring.
Infact the latter would be a case to dismiss the link to Abraham(AS) in the sense he had male children successors, whilst the Prophet (SAW) didn't.
Also the period of Jesus(AS) prophethood is closer to thr holy prophet's (SAW).
Its so easy to pick & choose themes.

Link

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2017, 06:29:31 PM »
There are more authentic hadiths that ALL of the family of Abraham were chosen and pure in Shiite sources, then those hadiths you mentioned.

That and that meaning is confirmed in Quran.

So Sarah stands as chosen, exalted, and infallible.

You are picking & choosing which events are linked to fulfill your beliefs.
You pick & choose to link the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) to Abraham (AS) & both their households.
One can easily debunk this & instead link Jesus(AS) not leaving any offspring & the Holy Prophet (SAW) not leaving any surving male offspring.
Infact the latter would be a case to dismiss the link to Abraham(AS) in the sense he had male children successors, whilst the Prophet (SAW) didn't.
Also the period of Jesus(AS) prophethood is closer to thr holy prophet's (SAW).
Its so easy to pick & choose themes.

Jesus was the final one of the family of Moses/Aeron/Dawood/Imran (one family).

He was the last of the 12 Captains associated to Moses.

This would be like saying the whole concept of Ahlulbayt makes no sense, because Imam Mahdi will not have chosen guides in his offspring.

There is always last member where it ends, and no one else is born to be part of that family.

Jesus's true twelve Captains and his family, are Moses all the way down to Yahya, the successors before him as well as chosen exalted ladies like Mariam.

With peace.

Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2017, 06:33:36 PM »
You hit the nail on the head.
It is precisely one of the reasons the shia concept of ahle bayt makes no sense.
We seem to be bridging the polarity gap😀

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2017, 12:14:45 AM »
There are more authentic hadiths that ALL of the family of Abraham were chosen and pure in Shiite sources, then those hadiths you mentioned.

That and that meaning is confirmed in Quran.

So Sarah stands as chosen, exalted, and infallible.

You are picking & choosing which events are linked to fulfill your beliefs.
You pick & choose to link the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) to Abraham (AS) & both their households.
One can easily debunk this & instead link Jesus(AS) not leaving any offspring & the Holy Prophet (SAW) not leaving any surving male offspring.
Infact the latter would be a case to dismiss the link to Abraham(AS) in the sense he had male children successors, whilst the Prophet (SAW) didn't.
Also the period of Jesus(AS) prophethood is closer to thr holy prophet's (SAW).
Its so easy to pick & choose themes.

Jesus was the final one of the family of Moses/Aeron/Dawood/Imran (one family).

He was the last of the 12 Captains associated to Moses.


It's false idea to say that Isa(as) was one of the 12 Captains associated to MoosA(as)

The 12 captains associated to Moosa(as) all lived during the same era. And they all were contemporaries of one another.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2017, 12:23:38 AM »
There are more authentic hadiths that ALL of the family of Abraham were chosen and pure in Shiite sources, then those hadiths you mentioned.

That and that meaning is confirmed in Quran.

So Sarah stands as chosen, exalted, and infallible.

That's the irony about the man-made Madhab you are upon. There are contradictions in every aspect of your Madhab , the contradictions are to such an extent that many people left Shiism due to these contradictions. And it's not just me who says this, but rather it was attested by big Shia scholar Tusi.

Ironically your case is that you want to clutch straws based on vague things when you have explicit proofs against your perspective. But the rijz in your heart doesn't allow you to reject the vague and unclear concepts

Link

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2017, 06:06:04 PM »
There are more authentic hadiths that ALL of the family of Abraham were chosen and pure in Shiite sources, then those hadiths you mentioned.

That and that meaning is confirmed in Quran.

So Sarah stands as chosen, exalted, and infallible.

You are picking & choosing which events are linked to fulfill your beliefs.
You pick & choose to link the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) to Abraham (AS) & both their households.
One can easily debunk this & instead link Jesus(AS) not leaving any offspring & the Holy Prophet (SAW) not leaving any surving male offspring.
Infact the latter would be a case to dismiss the link to Abraham(AS) in the sense he had male children successors, whilst the Prophet (SAW) didn't.
Also the period of Jesus(AS) prophethood is closer to thr holy prophet's (SAW).
Its so easy to pick & choose themes.

Jesus was the final one of the family of Moses/Aeron/Dawood/Imran (one family).

He was the last of the 12 Captains associated to Moses.


It's false idea to say that Isa(as) was one of the 12 Captains associated to MoosA(as)

The 12 captains associated to Moosa(as) all lived during the same era. And they all were contemporaries of one another.

Do you want to have a one on one debate on this? Regarding verse 5:12. I would argue for it referring to his successors and you can argue it referring it to contemporaries.

Let's have an official debate about this.

Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2017, 06:23:54 PM »
It would be hard for anyone to take you seriously enough to have an official one to one debate. If you want to be taken seriously then you should do something other than avoid posts that you cannot answer.
Its not fair or honest to start threads or post in threads then avoid them threads as you cannot answer certain questions put to you.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2017, 06:25:22 PM »
There are more authentic hadiths that ALL of the family of Abraham were chosen and pure in Shiite sources, then those hadiths you mentioned.

That and that meaning is confirmed in Quran.

So Sarah stands as chosen, exalted, and infallible.

You are picking & choosing which events are linked to fulfill your beliefs.
You pick & choose to link the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) to Abraham (AS) & both their households.
One can easily debunk this & instead link Jesus(AS) not leaving any offspring & the Holy Prophet (SAW) not leaving any surving male offspring.
Infact the latter would be a case to dismiss the link to Abraham(AS) in the sense he had male children successors, whilst the Prophet (SAW) didn't.
Also the period of Jesus(AS) prophethood is closer to thr holy prophet's (SAW).
Its so easy to pick & choose themes.

Jesus was the final one of the family of Moses/Aeron/Dawood/Imran (one family).

He was the last of the 12 Captains associated to Moses.


It's false idea to say that Isa(as) was one of the 12 Captains associated to MoosA(as)

The 12 captains associated to Moosa(as) all lived during the same era. And they all were contemporaries of one another.

Do you want to have a one on one debate on this? Regarding verse 5:12. I would argue for it referring to his successors and you can argue it referring it to contemporaries.

Let's have an official debate about this.

I have done a debate with you on this topic long a ago on hcy forum and I know your ways and seriously it's a total waste of time, because you no academic honesty or approach in you. You follow your own understanding even though they may go against both Sunni and Shia scholars.

And not only debate but I even had a  Mubahila with you on the issue of infallibility and eventually I found you apostating some time after Mubahila. 
« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 06:28:08 PM by Noor-us-Sunnah »

Link

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2017, 03:30:58 AM »
It would be hard for anyone to take you seriously enough to have an official one to one debate. If you want to be taken seriously then you should do something other than avoid posts that you cannot answer.
Its not fair or honest to start threads or post in threads then avoid them threads as you cannot answer certain questions put to you.

You guys like to jump over the place. Half the time, when something is proven to you, it all comes down to the issue of Ghayba.

Every topic is to be discussed, not a bunch of topics diverging with any question you guys pose.

There proofs in this thread stand.

Suratal Yaseen has a flow in the beginning. The next Surah is well connected by that flow.  The eloquence in "Peace be upon the family of Yaseen" is obvious.

The theme is there from past Surah and the theme in that Surah being connected, is obvious.

Something I did not mention, there is no reason to disconnect the lam from the ya, in El Yaseen. The only way it makes sense it's disconnected, is the meaning of "Auli Yaseen".
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2017, 03:44:19 AM »
It would be hard for anyone to take you seriously enough to have an official one to one debate. If you want to be taken seriously then you should do something other than avoid posts that you cannot answer.
Its not fair or honest to start threads or post in threads then avoid them threads as you cannot answer certain questions put to you.

You guys like to jump over the place. Half the time, when something is proven to you, it all comes down to the issue of Ghayba.

Every topic is to be discussed, not a bunch of topics diverging with any question you guys pose.

There proofs in this thread stand.

Suratal Yaseen has a flow in the beginning. The next Surah is well connected by that flow.  The eloquence in "Peace be upon the family of Yaseen" is obvious.

The theme is there from past Surah and the theme in that Surah being connected, is obvious.

Something I did not mention, there is no reason to disconnect the lam from the ya, in El Yaseen. The only way it makes sense it's disconnected, is the meaning of "Auli Yaseen".

You have been proven wrong frm the views of both Sunni and Shia scholars.

Your theories were a total flop.

Link

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2017, 03:50:23 AM »
When you have the humility to come to the hadiths of Ahlulbayt keeping in mind the words of the Prophet "do not teach them, for they know more than you", everything will become easy.

Till then keep reading the book you call Quran, I will read the Quran I believe in, and we will see who read the Satanic Quran and who read the Quran as interpreted by those rooted in knowledge.

Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2017, 04:00:41 AM »
When you have the humility to come to the hadiths of Ahlulbayt keeping in mind the words of the Prophet "do not teach them, for they know more than you", everything will become easy.

Till then keep reading the book you call Quran, I will read the Quran I believe in, and we will see who read the Satanic Quran and who read the Quran as interpreted by those rooted in knowledge.

You have been deceived by Shaitan the devil to believe that whatever foolish theories you make up by yourself is the truth. Know that you are upon the path of misguidance and devil is riding upon you in this darkness.

 

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