The narration of Jabir clearly says: Khalifas.
The narrations of Anas and Ali say: Imams.
Are these two narrations referring to the same exact people? The answer is no according to both Sunnis and Shias.
To Sunnis, Jabir's first narration is referring to the first twelve caliphs, while the narration of Anas and Ali are referring to caliphs in general, which goes beyond twelve.
First of all, what has become clear from your statement is, the Prophet used such terms interchangeably.
Ponder over your statement again:
while the narration of Anas and Ali are referring to caliphs in general
Note, they were quoting the Prophet and therefore, the change should apply to him, as an argument.
If that was case (as admitted by Hani last night too, that the Prophet used such terms interchangeably) then it is possible that the Prophet also narrated the version of "Twelve Imams" as authentically quoted by the Shia Hadith collectors.
In reference to the above, and the stage we have reached, I must remind you and others to keep my main view in mind:
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I believe, the Prophet had most likely used the wording: "Twelve Imams" instead of "Khalifas" or "Amirs" but the narrators used what they saw fit according to circumstances... After quoting the Shia Hadith which states: "Twelve Imams", I said:
In support of the Shia Hadith, I will use some Sunni reports to prove that instead of Amirs and Khalifahs, the Prophet had most surely used "Imams". That is what I am and will be aiming at. There is a reason for that. It shall come out fairly soon. But that doesn't mean the view of the Prophet interchanging such terms is implausible, I am arguing my case from a preferential point of view.
Anyway, I find your interpretation of "specific" and "general" absurd.
You have tried "restricting" a general statement quoted by a good number of Sahabah: "The Imams are from the Quraysh" with the report of ONE Sahabah concerning the twelve Khalifas.
The Prophet never divided the Khalifas into two groups, the specific and general, as you have put it.
If place two statements together:
"The Imams are from the Quraysh"
"The twelve Khalifas will be from the Quraysh"
The meaning we derive is that, the Imams and Khalifas has been used interchangeably. They will be from the Quraysh and their number will be twelve, not that they are different to each other. According to the Shia, the twelfth Imam went into occultation, and is still living. Though u may differ with us on that but our understanding of the Hadith, cannot be dismissed based upon a difference of opinion or due to denial of a specific concept without a valid justification.
Furthermore, there are many reports that go against the interpretation which you have just adopted. Have a look at these for the moment:
Reports with "Imams":
Sahih Muslim:
It is narrated on the authority of Tamim ad-Dari that the Messenger of Allah (may peace and blessings be upon him) observed:
Al-Din is a name of sincerity and well wishing. Upon this we said: For whom? He replied: For Allah, His Book, His Messenger and for the leaders [of the Muslims) and the general Muslims.
Here's the Arabic:
قَالَ " لِلَّهِ وَلِكِتَابِهِ وَلِرَسُولِهِ وَلأَئِمَّةِ الْمُسْلِمِينَ وَعَامَّتِهِمْ
Ponder over: "IMAMS OF THE MUSLIMS" and tell me, did the Prophet differentiate between the specific and the general?
These versions (amongst others) together make the following Hadith Sahih li-Ghayrihi. The Prophet said:
مات وليس عليه إمام مات ميتة جاهلية)
(من مات وليس له إمام مات ميتة جاهلية)
(ومن مات وليس عليه إمام جماعة فإن موتته موتة جاهلية)
Whoever dies without having an Imam over him, dies the death of Jahaliyah. Tell me, why did he restrict the obedience to the Imam, after the 12 Khalifas, if they are two different groups?
Sunan Abu Dawood:
Narrated Abdullah b. 'Amr:
The Prophet (ﷺ) as saying: If a man takes an oath of allegiance to a leader, and puts his hand on his hand and does it with the sincerity of his heart, he should obey him as much as possible. If another man comes and contests him, then behead the other one..."
مَنْ بَايَعَ إِمَامًا فَأَعْطَاهُ صَفْقَةَ يَدِهِ وَثَمَرَةَ قَلْبِهِ فَلْيُطِعْهُ مَا اسْتَطَاعَ فَإِنْ جَاءَ آخَرُ يُنَازِعُهُ فَاضْرِبُوا رَقَبَةَ الآخَرِ " .
Or are you going to say, the above rule only applies AFTER the twelve Khalifas?
Even the FIRST KHALIFAH, Abu Bakr DISAGREES with your interpretation. From Sahih al-Bukhari:
"....She asked, "From what branch of Quraish are you?" He said, "You ask too many questions; I am Abu Bakr." She said, "How long shall we enjoy this good order (i.e. Islamic religion) which Allah has brought after the period of ignorance?" He said, "You will enjoy it as long as your Imams keep on abiding by its rules and regulations." She asked, "What are the Imams?" He said, "Were there not heads and chiefs of your nation who used to order the people and they used to obey them?" She said, "Yes." He said, "So they (i.e. the Imams) are those whom I meant."
Why did he use Imams, for the early leaders, without a distinction?
Reports with Khalifas:
خلافة النبوة ثلاثون سنة ثم يؤتي الله الملك من يشاء
The Prophetic Khilafah will last for thirty years. Then Allaah will give the dominion to whomever He wills.
الخلافة بعدي في أمتي ثلاثون سنة ثم ملك بعد ذلك
The khilafah after me in my Ummah will last for thirty years. Then there will be kingship after that.
That's what you call a SPECIFIC Khilafat! The remaining were KINGS and continued even after the twelfth in your view.
I think such reports are enough to show you that the interpretation you have recently adopted was based upon DESPERATION!
I must thank you for providing me ammo for further debates though, I wasn't aware that the Prophet peace be upon him threatened and condemned the "Imams from Quraish" before.
Don't get too excited, your ignorance of the facts won't help you. Wait till I explain the Hadith.
Reminder: You are yet to provide a direct interpretation to the hadith.
Let us deal with your reconciliation issue first. I have offered objections against your view. I don't follow blind shots without valid justifications.
Wa Salaam.
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May 18, 2015, 09:59:10 PM
