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How do Sunnis understand 9:100?

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Rationalist

Re: How do Sunnis understand 9:100?
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2017, 05:48:48 AM »
The narration says 5. When did it become 50?

I have located the narration:

Muhammad ibn Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas Narrates: "I asked my father, was Abu Bakr the first of you to become Muslim, he said: No, more than 50 people became muslim before him, but he (Abu Bakr) was the best one of us" Tarikh al-Tabari, vol.2 page 60

Ok I found the narration, and its does exist in volume 6 page 85.

Those who say this: In Humayd-Kinanah b. Jabalah- [1167]
Ibrahim b. Tahman-al-Hajjaj b. al-Hajjaj-Qatadah-Salim b.
Abi al-Ja'd
-Muhammad b. Sad: I said to my father, "Was Abu
Bakr the first of them to accept Islam ?" He answered, "No, more
than fifty people accepted Islam before him, but he was the best
Muslim among us."


Here is the same second narrator Salim b.Abi al-Ja'd saying its 5 instead of 50. I believe Tabari, somewhere there has been a type which caused 5 to become 50. This version is found in Imam Suyuti's history book.





Link

Re: How do Sunnis understand 9:100?
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2017, 06:39:48 PM »
It refers to Ahlulbayt (as) who are the best of those who race ahead in good deeds from those who emigrated to God and helped God, different verses will emphasize on previous verses, different Surah paraphrase the themes in other Surahs, and your sheer desire to assert it to be other than Ahlulbayt (as) will not do away with this verse being about them, just as your sheer desire of Ulil-Amr being other then leaders God appoints will not do away with the clear flow of Quran and the Quran protecting it's own interpretation.

Sunnis read Quran heedlessly and by their desires - they are far away from God and his religion.  The day they recite it with sincerity and give Sunnah it's proper due, and seek the truth,  Ahlulbayt (as) would be unveiled to them in there from the sorcery they allowed to take over their souls.

Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Rationalist

Re: How do Sunnis understand 9:100?
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2017, 04:53:01 AM »
It refers to Ahlulbayt (as) who are the best of those who race ahead in good deeds from those who emigrated to God and helped God, different verses will emphasize on previous verses, different Surah paraphrase the themes in other Surahs, and your sheer desire to assert it to be other than Ahlulbayt (as) will not do away with this verse being about them, just as your sheer desire of Ulil-Amr being other then leaders God appoints will not do away with the clear flow of Quran and the Quran protecting it's own interpretation.

Sunnis read Quran heedlessly and by their desires - they are far away from God and his religion.  The day they recite it with sincerity and give Sunnah it's proper due, and seek the truth,  Ahlulbayt (as) would be unveiled to them in there from the sorcery they allowed to take over their souls.



No link it doesn't have anything to do with the leadership of Ahlul Bayt. In fact, Imam Jafar from your books agreed with the Sunnis, at till time there were 5 pillars.


Again let's see what Imam Jafar says about the pillars when the Prophet (pbuh) entered Madina. Imam Jafar refutes the asabiyah you are trying to promote day and night.

Ali ibn Muhammad has narrated from certain persons of his people from Adam
ibn Ishaq from ‘Abd al-Razzaq from ibn Mihran from al-Husayn ibn Maymun
from Muhammad ibn Salim from abu Ja’far, recipient of divine supreme
covenant, who has said the following:

Evidence of this (more serious sins) is the words of Allah, the
Most Majestic, the Most Holy, about them on their being
brought together in fire, “The last group will accuse the first
saying, ‘Lord, they made us go astray. Therefore, double their
torment in the Fire . . .’” (7:38) They will condemn and accuse
each other. They argue in the hope of winning but there will be
no winning, trial or acceptance of excuses and there will be no
way to safety. Such verses and similar other ones were revealed
in Makka. Allah does not send to fire anyone except the pagans.
‘When Allah granted Muhammad permission to leave Makka for
Madina he spoke of Islam having five principles:
‘To testify that no one deserves to be worshipped except Allah,
that Muhammad is His servant and His messenger, that
performing the prayer, paying al-Zakat (charity), Hajj of the
House and fasting in the month of Ramadan are obligatory. ( al Kafi Volume 2,  H 1506, CH 14, h 1)

Link

Re: How do Sunnis understand 9:100?
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2017, 07:43:06 PM »
The Quran says The people of the book were but commanded to worship God and keep up prayer and give zakat yet we know the most emphasized thing to banisreael was to follow the Messengers after Moses and to help them and believe in them and not mix with their authority who claim religious authority but have no proof.

Quran also summarizes the whole revelation to be paraphrasing in various ways there is "no God but me so will you submit."

The question is what is the means of submission but clear proof and vision from God that is why it also emphasized on the way after Moses which was split into twelve branches linking back to one root, being ways themselves and indeed all the Prophets were one way from one perspective and individually instance of the one and only path in a time.

You are ignorant because you choose to blind yourself and you pay no attention to all the discourses in Quran and do not let the Quran interpret itself with help of the family of Yaseen who are the ears to truly hear the recitation and their words are all light commenting on the Quran in one way or another.
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Rationalist

Re: How do Sunnis understand 9:100?
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2017, 11:42:32 PM »


You are ignorant because you choose to blind yourself and you pay no attention to all the discourses in Quran and do not let the Quran interpret itself with help of the family of Yaseen who are the ears to truly hear the recitation and their words are all light commenting on the Quran in one way or another.

No I am not ignorant. I brought proof from your own books. This time it is Imam Jafar guiding me and telling what are the pillars of Islam in relation to verse 9:100. It is you who is creating division by making the world belief that Islam belong to 12 imam only. This is false, because Imam Jafar himself says this is not the case, and strangely the hadith is in al Kafi.

confusedshia

Re: How do Sunnis understand 9:100?
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2017, 04:41:38 PM »
The exact same page includes quotes saying that he was the FIRST Muslim.

http://islamport.com/w/tkh/Web/2893/531.htm

The one that says fifty became Muslims before him is a fabrication. It includes Ibn Humaid who was a known liar.

Thank you.

Does the report say Abu Bakr became the first Muslim or that he became the first male Muslim?

One says male, while others keep it general.

What is the Sunni response to the following Shia argument on 9:100:

"Allah may have been pleased with first group of muhajireen when 9:100 was revealed, but this does not mean that Allah is enterally pleased with them and they have been promised jannah. Whether they are granted jannah was also dependent on their future deeds, which is why the following ayah was revealed after 9:100:

O you who believe, raise not your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor speak aloud to him as in talk as you speak aloud to one another, lest your deeds should be rendered fruitless while you perceive not} (49:2)

And that Allah never promises jannah to any of the muhajireen in 9:100, only that it has been prepared for them, but again, this is obviously dependent on their future deeds, and can also been shown through other such as 49:2.'

Please let me know what the Sunni answer is to the above.

Thanks

Hadrami

Re: How do Sunnis understand 9:100?
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2017, 05:28:11 PM »
What is the Sunni response to the following Shia argument on 9:100:

"Allah may have been pleased with first group of muhajireen when 9:100 was revealed, but this does not mean that Allah is enterally pleased with them and they have been promised jannah. Whether they are granted jannah was also dependent on their future deeds, which is why the following ayah was revealed after 9:100:

O you who believe, raise not your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor speak aloud to him as in talk as you speak aloud to one another, lest your deeds should be rendered fruitless while you perceive not} (49:2)

And that Allah never promises jannah to any of the muhajireen in 9:100, only that it has been prepared for them, but again, this is obviously dependent on their future deeds, and can also been shown through other such as 49:2.'

Please let me know what the Sunni answer is to the above.

Thanks
you should tell that shia to come here. Easier for you and everyone

MuslimAnswers

Re: How do Sunnis understand 9:100?
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2017, 07:04:32 PM »
^

Seems strange that for Verse 9:100 the excuse of "future deeds" would be brought up by Twelvers [though I am sure Allah knew very well what deeds those promised Paradise would perform in the future, including those of Verse 49:2 and any other deeds], while their interpretation of Verse 33:33 seems to exclude the future possibility for revocation of this purification; though in fact being guaranteed Paradise is in fact a greater blessing than a desire for purification - since it is first of all only a desire, and if we were to concede it as a fact of purification, the Verse itself does not tie purification to Paradise whatsoever (i.e. if we use restrictive Shia-like logic).

To those who say this is outrageous, I say that we have an incident of at least one Shia author, in his lampooning of the Sahaabah, claiming that the Prophet (Salla Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) himself did not know where His Final Abode was, so yes these invalid possibilities can be and are raised by the reasoning of our Shia opponents.

Abu Muhammad

Re: How do Sunnis understand 9:100?
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2017, 01:16:18 AM »
Seems strange that for Verse 9:100 the excuse of "future deeds" would be brought up by Twelvers [though I am sure Allah knew very well what deeds those promised Paradise would perform in the future, including those of Verse 49:2 and any other deeds]
Indeed.

@confusedshia, after your Shia friend's weird and confusing attempt to disqualify Abu Bakr (ra) from verse 9:100 for not being among "the early converts" failed, ask him what future deeds that disqualified Abu Bakr (ra) from verse 9:100.

Mind you that the verse 49:2 was revealed AFTER the incident between Abu Bakr and Umar (and interestingly, Allah still called them both (ra) "O you who believe").


you should tell that shia to come here. Easier for you and everyone
Agree. Ask him to come here.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 01:19:55 AM by Abu Muhammad »

Link

Re: How do Sunnis understand 9:100?
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2017, 06:05:02 AM »
though in fact being guaranteed Paradise is in fact a greater blessing than a desire for purification

Slightly off-topic, but that is one reason why the Inama cannot be to restrict the desire God wishes with commands of Islam towards the family because he desires so much more.

Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Hadrami

Re: How do Sunnis understand 9:100?
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2017, 12:36:46 PM »
^

Seems strange that for Verse 9:100 the excuse of "future deeds" would be brought up by Twelvers [though I am sure Allah knew very well what deeds those promised Paradise would perform in the future, including those of Verse 49:2 and any other deeds], while their interpretation of Verse 33:33 seems to exclude the future possibility for revocation of this purification; though in fact being guaranteed Paradise is in fact a greater blessing than a desire for purification - since it is first of all only a desire, and if we were to concede it as a fact of purification, the Verse itself does not tie purification to Paradise whatsoever (i.e. if we use restrictive Shia-like logic).

To those who say this is outrageous, I say that we have an incident of at least one Shia author, in his lampooning of the Sahaabah, claiming that the Prophet (Salla Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) himself did not know where His Final Abode was, so yes these invalid possibilities can be and are raised by the reasoning of our Shia opponents.

we know why shia came up with that ridiculous excuse is because its about muhajirin & ansar. Just imagine if instead it was ahlulbayt (minus wives of course), they will say it is clearcut proof that they will be in paradise

MuslimK

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Re: How do Sunnis understand 9:100?
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2017, 02:24:22 PM »
in fact being guaranteed Paradise is in fact a greater blessing than a desire for purification


Excellent point!
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

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Re: How do Sunnis understand 9:100?
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2017, 02:37:58 PM »
33:33 says all that God desires to keep away from the Household of revelation, is uncleanness, thereby bestowing all value and blessings in the creation and that he desires to only purify them a certain purification which means they are always at the highest level of blessings and purification, and there is no limit to purity, Imam Zainal Abideen (as) teaches regarding the Angels to says "blessings that will increase their purity on top of their purity".

So Ahlulbayt (as) are bestowed constnatly unique level of purification, which means, they are the highest level with Mohammad (pbuh&hf) and the phrase "God only desires to make the uncleanness be away from you O people of the family" also implies that God desires to bless them with no limit and he has commanded creation thereby to help "Indeed God and his Angels bless the Prophet, O You who believe, bless him and salute him a salutation".

According to the Prophet (pbuh&hf), the proper way to bless the Prophet is to bless his family with him and to salute him salutation is to connect their position with that of Abraham and his family and connect that to God's Affair of Majestic Praiseworthiness.

It has an allusion to the words to Sarah regarding Abraham, herself, and her chosen family who are the chosen family of guidance of that time, "God's mercy and blessings upon you O People of the Household, indeed he is Majestic Praiseworthy".

Indeed the Angels blessed the family of Abraham, and likewise, when the bless the Prophet, they blessed his holy family as God only desires to keep the uncleanness away from them.

And Ahlulbayt exceeds all purity found in creation, as God constantly desires to purity only them a certain purification.

There is no comparison between that and being given the good news of paradise on the conditions one remains steadfast and on the course of God's favor.

Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

MuslimK

  • *****
  • Total likes: 227
  • +8/-0
  • یا مقلب القلوب ثبت قلبی علی دینک
    • Refuting Shia allegations everywhere
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Re: How do Sunnis understand 9:100?
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2017, 02:45:15 PM »

What is the Sunni response to the following Shia argument on 9:100:

"Allah may have been pleased with first group of muhajireen when 9:100 was revealed, but this does not mean that Allah is enterally pleased with them and they have been promised jannah. Whether they are granted jannah was also dependent on their future deeds, which is why the following ayah was revealed after 9:100:

O you who believe, raise not your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor speak aloud to him as in talk as you speak aloud to one another, lest your deeds should be rendered fruitless while you perceive not} (49:2)

And that Allah never promises jannah to any of the muhajireen in 9:100, only that it has been prepared for them, but again, this is obviously dependent on their future deeds, and can also been shown through other such as 49:2.'

Please let me know what the Sunni answer is to the above.

Thanks

Tell him to prove from the Quran where Allah has said He is no more pleased with Muhajireen and Ansar and paradise is not prepared for them anymore.  He is implying that Allah stopped becoming pleased with them so he has to prove this from the Quran. He is indirectly suggesting Allah didn't know their future deeds.

The only reason he is rejecting these clear verses is because if he accepts them then it means the people praised by Allah and promised paradise gathered around Abubakr and agreed with him as their leader. This will question his entire sect.

And his last argument is even more ridiculous. He claims Allah doesn't promise them any paradise but only says He has prepared for them Paradise. He doesn't make any sense. He admits that Allah prepared for them paradise (after being pleased with them) now he has prove from the Quran that the prepared Paradise is no more prepared.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 02:51:44 PM by MuslimK »
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

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Re: How do Sunnis understand 9:100?
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2017, 03:17:07 PM »
Suratal Auli-Imran shows there is the possibility of companions turning on their backs, and compassionately warns them not to be like those people who turn on their backs after clear proofs came to them in the past.
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

 

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