TwelverShia.net Forum
Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Quran-Tafseer => Topic started by: Farid on December 30, 2016, 12:30:11 PM
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Alsalam alaykum,
Ibn Atiyyah mentioned in his Al Muharir that Shias recited:
فإذا فرغت فانصب - بكسر الصاد
Fa itha faraghta fanSIB
This gives the verse a new meaning since Fansib means: Appoint.
I couldn't believe that this was a view that was adopted by credible Shia scholars until I found that Ali bin Ibrahim Al Qummi holds the same view. He says that the verse means: When you are done with Hajj, appoint Ali as your successor.
I want the thoughts of intelligent Shias on this foolishness.
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Didn't the surah reveal in early Meccan period?
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^ Don't assume that Shias have knowledge of Makki and Madani. It is based on what Sunni scholars have said, so they will reject and affirm what they please.
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Alsalam alaykum,
Ibn Atiyyah mentioned in his Al Muharir that Shias recited:
فإذا فرغت فانصب - بكسر الصاد
Fa itha faraghta fanSIB
This gives the verse a new meaning since Fansib means: Appoint.
I couldn't believe that this was a view that was adopted by credible Shia scholars until I found that Ali bin Ibrahim Al Qummi holds the same view. He says that the verse means: When you are done with Hajj, appoint Ali as your successor.
I want the thoughts of intelligent Shias on this foolishness.
I have seen some (lay) Shias presenting this very same 'appointing of 'Ali' angle even with the Qira'ah we are all used to, so maybe some explanation about why the issue is scandalous would be useful.
Maybe the readers also need an overview of the Shia positions (old scholars and newer scholars as well) on the Qira'aat. Of course, the Twelvers will normally say that a lot of what we say are dubious aspersions against them, but it is much more complicated than that.
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Even if we go with their erronous recitation, still it'll make no sense. "When you are done then appoint, and seek your Lord"????
Appoint what?
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Even if we go with their erronous recitation, still it'll make no sense. "When you are done then appoint, and seek your Lord"????
Appoint what?
They claimed to have a narration from an imam for that:
"Among the numerous narrations that the famous scholar Hafiz Hakim Huskani has cited in Shawahid-al-Tanzil, there is one from Imam Sadiq (as) in which, commenting on the verse as a meaning, he said:
"When you finish, appoint the leadership (williyah) of Ali (as)”.
In his commentary, Qartabi has narrated from some that the meaning of the verse is that 'when you finish, do appoint an Imam, who is your substitute'. (Although he, himself, did not assume the meaning).
Regarding this fact that the verse does not define what matter he finishes, and furthermore, the term /fansab/ derived from /nasb/ meaning 'suffer and toil', the verse refers to a general principle of which the aim is to prevent the Prophet (S), as a model, from being in rest after finishing an important task and to notify him of the continuous effort in life."
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By the name of God
Small Surahs often compliment entire themes in Quran. In this case, can you gather similar verses to this?
Take a look at Musa's prayers and the various paraphrasing of it.
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Even if we go with their erronous recitation, still it'll make no sense. "When you are done then appoint, and seek your Lord"????
Appoint what?
They claimed to have a narration from an imam for that:
"Among the numerous narrations that the famous scholar Hafiz Hakim Huskani has cited in Shawahid-al-Tanzil, there is one from Imam Sadiq (as) in which, commenting on the verse as a meaning, he said:
"When you finish, appoint the leadership (williyah) of Ali (as)”.
In his commentary, Qartabi has narrated from some that the meaning of the verse is that 'when you finish, do appoint an Imam, who is your substitute'. (Although he, himself, did not assume the meaning).
Regarding this fact that the verse does not define what matter he finishes, and furthermore, the term /fansab/ derived from /nasb/ meaning 'suffer and toil', the verse refers to a general principle of which the aim is to prevent the Prophet (S), as a model, from being in rest after finishing an important task and to notify him of the continuous effort in life."
I don't think it's just one narration but rather numerous authentic narrations with the same meaning leading to tawatur in our traditions.
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I don't think it's just one narration but rather numerous authentic narrations with the same meaning leading to tawatur in our traditions.
First of all, you need to prove that the above narration is authentic according to Twelvers standard.
Secondly, if there are many, why not you bring those "numerous authentic narrations" rather than giving cheap speculation on the possibility of tawatur.
Thirdly, please give your thought on the following since this is the very topic of this thread:
Alsalam alaykum,
Ibn Atiyyah mentioned in his Al Muharir that Shias recited:
فإذا فرغت فانصب - بكسر الصاد
Fa itha faraghta fanSIB
This gives the verse a new meaning since Fansib means: Appoint.
I couldn't believe that this was a view that was adopted by credible Shia scholars until I found that Ali bin Ibrahim Al Qummi holds the same view. He says that the verse means: When you are done with Hajj, appoint Ali as your successor.
I want the thoughts of intelligent Shias on this foolishness.
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Salam
I checked a scholar's site, he didn't say Tawatur but said there are many authentic hadiths that give that meaning.
So I'm not sure if it's mutuwatir but it is authentic according to that scholar.
http://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/question/fa1479
I think the Quran itself confirms the hadiths that suggest this meaning.
1. It's very similar to Musa's prayer paraphrased in Suratal Taha and also the heightening of Musa in people's eyes.
2. That prayer is paraphrased in many places through out Quran and it's through Harun that Allah did the inshirah to Musa's heart if you recall the other verses like "My hearts is constricted and my tongue is incapable, so send me Harun".
3. The allusion to Suratal Taha is undeniable and becomes obvious that the Nabi has one to him, as Harun was to Moses with exception of Prophethood.
4. Keeping that in mind, "fa" would be "so/therefore" and implication of what has just been said, and therefore it makes more sense that it means to nominate.
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Salam
I checked a scholar's site, he didn't say Tawatur but said there are many authentic hadiths that give that meaning.
So I'm not sure if it's mutuwatir but it is authentic according to that scholar.
http://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/question/fa1479
I think the Quran itself confirms the hadiths that suggest this meaning.
1. It's very similar to Musa's prayer paraphrased in Suratal Taha and also the heightening of Musa in people's eyes.
2. That prayer is paraphrased in many places through out Quran and it's through Harun that Allah did the inshirah to Musa's heart if you recall the other verses like "My hearts is constricted and my tongue is incapable, so send me Harun".
3. The allusion to Suratal Taha is undeniable and becomes obvious that the Nabi has one to him, as Harun was to Moses with exception of Prophethood.
4. Keeping that in mind, "fa" would be "so/therefore" and implication of what has just been said, and therefore it makes more sense that it means to nominate.
Wa'alaikumussalam wrh.
Frankly speaking, nothing really surprise me if you find 12vers narrations trying to relate Quranic verses to Ali r.a. regardless how far off the actual meaning of those verses. Nothing really surprise. Seems like, for 12vers, each and every verse in the Quran is only about him r.a., his progeny or his enemies.
http://forum.twelvershia.net/quran-tafseer/qur'an-challenge!-where-isn't-ali/msg13890/#new
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Link. Are you going to start reciting it as FanSIB now?
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Link. Are you going to start reciting it as FanSIB now?
Another proof that one cannot be a Rafidi without believing in Tahrif. They don't even believe in Qira'at, so they must believe the Qur'an we have is distorted or ... they fabricated narration are: Fabrications.
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Link. Are you going to start reciting it as FanSIB now?
Another proof that one cannot be a Rafidi without believing in Tahrif. They don't even believe in Qira'at, so they must believe the Qur'an we have is distorted or ... they fabricated narration are: Fabrications.
Are the recitations among the 10 recitations that have "auli-yaseen" instead of "El Yaseen" considered authentic or fabricated according to you?
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All Mutawatir recitations are from Allah. Stop playing your childish games. You guys don't have a single sanad to the Qur'an.
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All Mutawatir recitations are from Allah. Stop playing your childish games. You guys don't have a single sanad to the Qur'an.
So then "Peace be upon the family of Yaseen" is part of the recitations from God?
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What about my question?
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What about my question?
How has it not been answered?
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Alsalam alaykum,
Ibn Atiyyah mentioned in his Al Muharir that Shias recited:
فإذا فرغت فانصب - بكسر الصاد
Fa itha faraghta fanSIB
This gives the verse a new meaning since Fansib means: Appoint.
I couldn't believe that this was a view that was adopted by credible Shia scholars until I found that Ali bin Ibrahim Al Qummi holds the same view. He says that the verse means: When you are done with Hajj, appoint Ali as your successor.
I want the thoughts of intelligent Shias on this foolishness.
Bismillah.
as Salam alaikum.
Majlisi in Bihar 36/135 narrated with chain:
عن سليمان قال: قلت لأبي عبد الله عليه السلام: قوله تعالى: " ألم نشرح لك صدرك " قال: بعلي فاجعله وصيا، قلت: وقوله: " فإذا فرغت فانصب " قال:
إن الله أمره إذا فعل ذلك أن ينصب عليا وصيه
..from Salman which said: I asked Abu Abdullah (a.s) about saying of Taala: "Have We not opened your breast for you" (al lam nashrah laka sadrak). He said: "By Ali by making him successor". I said what about saying: "So when you have finished, devote yourself to Allah's worship". He said: "Allah ordered when he did it be must apint Ali as a successor".