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Qur'anic Sciences Monopoly

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Farid

Qur'anic Sciences Monopoly
« on: August 08, 2016, 03:46:13 AM »
Alsalam alaykum,

This is a major topic that isn't often discussed. I believe that Sunnis pretty much have a monopoly of all Qur'anic sciences and that Shias have done a terrible job at them.

Does anyone disagree?

Please keep posts short and do not derail the thread.

Hadrami

Re: Qur'anic Sciences Monopoly
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2016, 12:01:24 AM »
anyone who loves to listen to famous reciters can tell all shia reciters do is just imitating one of sunni's :D

taha taha

Re: Qur'anic Sciences Monopoly
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2016, 12:49:35 AM »
Well it difficult.
I think they are still looking for their Quran in a cave...or is that the Mahdi only???

Rationalist

Re: Qur'anic Sciences Monopoly
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2016, 12:11:41 AM »
The Zaidi sect has some works on the Quran. They accept the different Qirats too.
http://nafeeslibrary.org/qirat-imam-zayd-ibn-ali/

Also, the Mutazilla had a great input as well such as tafsir Al  Zamakhshari

أبو ماريا المرزم

Re: Qur'anic Sciences Monopoly
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2016, 02:44:41 AM »
They can't recite the Qur'an properly.
They asked how many will be with the one I hate. I said 313

Hani

Re: Qur'anic Sciences Monopoly
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2016, 02:54:20 AM »
The Zaidi sect has some works on the Quran. They accept the different Qirats too.
http://nafeeslibrary.org/qirat-imam-zayd-ibn-ali/

Also, the Mutazilla had a great input as well such as tafsir Al  Zamakhshari

I know the Mutazili Tafsir of Al Hakim Al Jushami survived. I recall Zamakhshari often quoted him.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Sheikh

Re: Qur'anic Sciences Monopoly
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2016, 08:27:13 AM »
When I was a Shia, we had Tafsir al-Mizan and Tafsir Qommi.

How do these compare in quality and quantity to Ahlus Sunnah?

Re: Qur'anic Sciences Monopoly
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2016, 12:49:24 AM »
Alsalam alaykum,

This is a major topic that isn't often discussed. I believe that Sunnis pretty much have a monopoly of all Qur'anic sciences and that Shias have done a terrible job at them.

Does anyone disagree?

Please keep posts short and do not derail the thread.
Indeed the best monopoly in Islam! I mean, why not? Aysha's sheep ate Quranic verses about breast feeding she used to keep under her pillow.
Sunan Ibn Maja:  : Book 9, Hadith 2020
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:“The Verse of stoning and of breastfeeding an adult ten times was revealed, and the paper was with me under my pillow. When the Messenger of Allah died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.”
[/size]
[الزمر 18]
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
الَّذِينَ يَسْتَمِعُونَ الْقَوْلَ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ أَحْسَنَهُ ۚ أُولَئِكَ الَّذِينَ هَدَاهُمُ اللَّهُ ۖ وَأُولَئِكَ هُمْ أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ
صدق الله العلي العظيم

Farid

Re: Qur'anic Sciences Monopoly
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2016, 02:49:59 AM »
Good to see a Shia posting in this thread. Are you familiar with the different sciences of the Qur'an akhi?

Please name the sciences of the Qur'an in which you believe that Shias are superior in, barak Allah feek. I just want to be sure that we are on the same page.



Re: Qur'anic Sciences Monopoly
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2016, 03:13:03 AM »
Good to see a Shia posting in this thread. Are you familiar with the different sciences of the Qur'an akhi?

Please name the sciences of the Qur'an in which you believe that Shias are superior in, barak Allah feek. I just want to be sure that we are on the same page.
Do YOU know the different sciences of the Quran? There are earthly sciences in the Quran like astrology and Botany and many more, or are you talking about the sciences of Tafsir? if none of these are you talking about Ta'weel? Or the science of the grammar? the science of history in the Quran like anthropolgy and Archaeology? I bet I said some sciences you didn't even know. We are supperior on every level, hence why mass of Sunnis convert to the true Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad S.A.A.W.W which is following the Quran and AHlul bayt a.s. You Fast ramadan wrong for one and much more but let's keep the mystery box closed.
[الزمر 18]
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
الَّذِينَ يَسْتَمِعُونَ الْقَوْلَ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ أَحْسَنَهُ ۚ أُولَئِكَ الَّذِينَ هَدَاهُمُ اللَّهُ ۖ وَأُولَئِكَ هُمْ أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ
صدق الله العلي العظيم

Farid

Re: Qur'anic Sciences Monopoly
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2016, 07:50:26 AM »
I didn't mean modern sciences.

I am interested though. How are Shias superior to Sunnis in the sciences that you have mentioned above?


muslim720

Re: Qur'anic Sciences Monopoly
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2016, 08:04:07 PM »
We are supperior on every level, hence why mass of Sunnis convert to the true Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad S.A.A.W.W which is following the Quran and AHlul bayt a.s.

No, let us open the mystery box.  From your level of discourse, I doubt that you know him but look up Sheikh Seyyed Hossein Nasr.  Born in Iran, he is a professor at George Washington University in Washington DC.  He is Shia though he is far more non-sectarian and perhaps mainstream than you.  The reason why I brought him up is because of what he said in one of his lectures.  Pointing at all religions, he mentioned that it is nothing new for religions to have sects or schools within themselves and that these sects have had their fair share of numbers.  However, no other religion has seen such a great disparity (in numbers) when it comes to sects except Islam.  And this has been the trend since the split.  In other words, Islam is the only religion where you have the mainstream group making up 85% of the population while the remaining 15% is shared between Shias (Ithna Asharis, Zaidis, Ismailis) and other smaller, offshoot sects.  And these numbers have not been disturbed since the outset of the sectarian split.

Often times I hear Shias boasting that Sunnis are converting to Shiaism "in masses".  When do you anticipate for the scales to be tilted in your favor?  Let me assure you that Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah will be here long after you, and your school, are obsolete.

Re: Qur'anic Sciences Monopoly
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2016, 08:20:57 PM »
We are supperior on every level, hence why mass of Sunnis convert to the true Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad S.A.A.W.W which is following the Quran and AHlul bayt a.s.

No, let us open the mystery box.  From your level of discourse, I doubt that you know him but look up Sheikh Seyyed Hossein Nasr.  Born in Iran, he is a professor at George Washington University in Washington DC.  He is Shia though he is far more non-sectarian and perhaps mainstream than you.  The reason why I brought him up is because of what he said in one of his lectures.  Pointing at all religions, he mentioned that it is nothing new for religions to have sects or schools within themselves and that these sects have had their fair share of numbers.  However, no other religion has seen such a great disparity (in numbers) when it comes to sects except Islam.  And this has been the trend since the split.  In other words, Islam is the only religion where you have the mainstream group making up 85% of the population while the remaining 15% is shared between Shias (Ithna Asharis, Zaidis, Ismailis) and other smaller, offshoot sects.  And these numbers have not been disturbed since the outset of the sectarian split.

Often times I hear Shias boasting that Sunnis are converting to Shiaism "in masses".  When do you anticipate for the scales to be tilted in your favor?  Let me assure you that Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah will be here long after you, and your school, are obsolete.

You have numbers, we have quality.
[الزمر 18]
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
الَّذِينَ يَسْتَمِعُونَ الْقَوْلَ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ أَحْسَنَهُ ۚ أُولَئِكَ الَّذِينَ هَدَاهُمُ اللَّهُ ۖ وَأُولَئِكَ هُمْ أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ
صدق الله العلي العظيم

Re: Qur'anic Sciences Monopoly
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2016, 08:22:23 PM »
I didn't mean modern sciences.

I am interested though. How are Shias superior to Sunnis in the sciences that you have mentioned above?
I already mentioned one but you seem to not pay attention, for example we are superior in tafsir and taweel, hence why you fast ramadan wrong and we do it correctly.
[الزمر 18]
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
الَّذِينَ يَسْتَمِعُونَ الْقَوْلَ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ أَحْسَنَهُ ۚ أُولَئِكَ الَّذِينَ هَدَاهُمُ اللَّهُ ۖ وَأُولَئِكَ هُمْ أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ
صدق الله العلي العظيم

muslim720

Re: Qur'anic Sciences Monopoly
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2016, 09:02:41 PM »
Quote
author=اولي الالباب link=topic=1417.msg13177#msg13177
You have numbers, we have quality.

You do not even have a bite, let alone quality.  You only have a bark.  Poodle!
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 09:03:42 PM by muslim720 »

Farid

Re: Qur'anic Sciences Monopoly
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2016, 09:32:46 PM »
Bro Muslim720, please stick to topic or create a new one. Also, please be respectful.

@ أولي الألباب

You have chosen Tafseer as a science of the Qur'an that you believe is superior in Shiasm. I am familiar with early Shia Tafseer and I hold the view that they do not have anything close to the academic value that early Sunni Tafaseer have.

Would you direct me to an early book of Shia Tafseer that you are proud of? Anything before the sixth century after hijra is what I would consider early.

Re: Qur'anic Sciences Monopoly
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2016, 09:52:33 PM »
Bro Muslim720, please stick to topic or create a new one. Also, please be respectful.

@ أولي الألباب

You have chosen Tafseer as a science of the Qur'an that you believe is superior in Shiasm. I am familiar with early Shia Tafseer and I hold the view that they do not have anything close to the academic value that early Sunni Tafaseer have.

Would you direct me to an early book of Shia Tafseer that you are proud of? Anything before the sixth century after hijra is what I would consider early.

That is okay Aisha used to cuss and abu bakr too, I am not surprised they are the people he looks up to. Second of all Read tafsir al mizan.

Quote
author=اولي الالباب link=topic=1417.msg13177#msg13177
You have numbers, we have quality.

You do not even have a bite, let alone quality.  You only have a bark.  Poodle!

* The Testimony that there is none worthy of worship except God and that Muhammad is his messenger.
* Establishing of the five daily Prayers (salah).
* The Giving of Zakaah (charity), which is generally 2.5% of the yearly savings for a rich man working in trade or industry, and 10% or 20% of the produce for agriculturists. This money or produce is distributed among the poor.
* Fasting from dawn to dusk in the month of Ramadan (sawm).
* The Pilgrimage (Hajj) to Mecca during the month of Dhul Hijjah, which is compulsory once in a lifetime for one who has the ability to do it.

These are YOUR five pillars of Islam and I am going to prove that you don't follow them. Let's start with Fasting Ramadan, you fast until dusk and evening not night which is Haram and against Quran, Allah says Fast until NIGHT.
Al Baqara 187
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
ثُمَّ أَتِمُّوا الصِّيَامَ إِلَى اللَّيْلِ ۚ
صدق الله الغلي العظيم
ثُمَّ أَتِمُّوا الصِّيَامَ إِلَى اللَّيْلِ ۚ
-------------------------------------------------
Now you follow 4 pillars only.
* The Testimony that there is none worthy of worship except God and that Muhammad is his messenger.
* Establishing of the five daily Prayers (salah).
* The Giving of Zakaah (charity), which is generally 2.5% of the yearly savings for a rich man working in trade or industry, and 10% or 20% of the produce for agriculturists. This money or produce is distributed among the poor.
* The Pilgrimage (Hajj) to Mecca during the month of Dhul Hijjah, which is compulsory once in a lifetime for one who has the ability to do it.
[الزمر 18]
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
الَّذِينَ يَسْتَمِعُونَ الْقَوْلَ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ أَحْسَنَهُ ۚ أُولَئِكَ الَّذِينَ هَدَاهُمُ اللَّهُ ۖ وَأُولَئِكَ هُمْ أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ
صدق الله العلي العظيم

Farid

Re: Qur'anic Sciences Monopoly
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2016, 10:06:55 PM »
Brother, Tafseer Al Mizan was written a few decades ago. It isn't exactly an early Tafseer, as I have requested.

Do you have any early books of Tafseer that you are proud of as a Shi'ee?

Hani

Re: Qur'anic Sciences Monopoly
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2016, 12:11:04 AM »

That is okay Aisha used to cuss and abu bakr too, I am not surprised they are the people he looks up to. Second of all Read tafsir al mizan.


Husayn bin `Ali used to cuss Marwan bin al-Hakam. You just cussed a couple of times yourself in various threads.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hani

Re: Qur'anic Sciences Monopoly
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2016, 08:58:39 PM »
It's a Sunni source and is authentic, we have many Shia sources in which your Imam uses foul language.

In Ihtijaj al-Tabrasi 1/118 `Ali says:

[You lie, whoever does it has a tighter anus than yours!]

In Bihar al-Anwar 32/87 `Ali says:

[O son of a weaver, O you who bit his father's dick.]

PS. I didn't say Abu Bakr consulted `Ali, you seem to be confused.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2016, 09:19:50 PM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

 

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