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Shia admit: Sunnies respect the Qur'an more than us

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Hani

Shia admit: Sunnies respect the Qur'an more than us
« on: May 03, 2015, 11:48:16 AM »
Salam,


Here's what Shia member Logical Islam wrote:


Quote
Salamunalykum, and i KNOW many of you will disagree,but even as a shia muslim, i get my Quran recitations, discussions on the Quran (not all! i know how to filter ), and many things related to the Quran from sunni's.


The issue is, and you can disagree if you like, the majority of our majlises RARELY touch on the Quran.


Whilst with the sunni's, they have no concept of nauhahs like shia's do. Go to a sunni forum and you'll see ' which Quran reciter do you like " or "learn Quran here" and EVERYTHING to do with the Quran.


Maybe this was only in my mosque ? But no offence, i am tired of hearing about the stories of the Imams a.s. as much as i revere them. I really want to hear hadiths of the prophet pbuh - i rarely even hear this!


I want to hear the Quran recited more, and the meanings discussed, rather than dua's.


I want more of : the prophet pbuh and the Quran. The imams ofcourse need to be discussed, but i do want the former two being included a tad bit more.


I respect the 50 days in a year calander remembering ashura and the deaths of people, but i'd rather remember the MESSAGE that was saved rather than HOW the message was saved.


There are SO many wafats and wiladaats, and barely ANYTHING on the Quran and the prophet pbuh.


no offence guys, i am a shia and always will be, we are the right sect, but yeah.


my ideas really!


salam


Shia moderator Haydar Husayn wrote:
Quote
Not sure about that. It seems more likely it is because the majority of their public prefer to hear stories of the Imams (as) rather than a lecture on some teaching of the Qur'an. At the end of the day, many people do public speaking as a job. And if they want to make money, they need to be popular, and in order to be popular they need to give the public what they want. This is the reason some things get repeated over and over, and other things are completely neglected.


You can read the rest of their excuses as to why that is here:
http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235008707-sunnis-respect-the-quran-more-than-us-shias/
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Husayn

Re: Shia admit: Sunnies respect the Qur'an more than us
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2015, 02:14:38 PM »
Indeed - reciters at the local Shii mosque don't ever go longer than 5 minutes or so, because the people don't like it and will get annoyed.

While the majalis go for hours.

Another big issue is that of pay - noone pays Qur'anic reciters in the Shii community, while majalis reciters can command 1000s of $$ a night.

Infact, a few years ago the usual majlis guy at the local Shii mosque refused to keep coming, because the mosque could not afford his $10,000 fee (for ten nights).
إن يتبعون إلا الظن وما تهوى الأنفس

muslim720

Re: Shia admit: Sunnies respect the Qur'an more than us
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2015, 04:40:36 PM »
Indeed - reciters at the local Shii mosque don't ever go longer than 5 minutes or so, because the people don't like it and will get annoyed.

While the majalis go for hours.

Another big issue is that of pay - noone pays Qur'anic reciters in the Shii community, while majalis reciters can command 1000s of $$ a night.

Infact, a few years ago the usual majlis guy at the local Shii mosque refused to keep coming, because the mosque could not afford his $10,000 fee (for ten nights).

So true!  I have been to many majalis and as you rightly pointed out, Qur'an is recited for maybe 10 minutes, tops.

$10,000 for ten nights?  Wow!  By the way, in that topic in ShiaChat, someone brought up Taraweeh.  The topic is old and dead so I see no reason to respond and resurrect it but if only they realize that those leading Taraweeh charge nothing.  This is why at the end of the month, or when the Qur'an has been fully recited, those leading Taraweeh receive a small gift from the masjid.

Rationalist

Re: Shia admit: Sunnies respect the Qur'an more than us
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2015, 04:49:23 AM »
Can you blame them? They believe the Imams are higher in status to Prophets. Since Quran talks about Prophets, they prefer to go to references which talk about the Imams.

matpau_83

Re: Shia admit: Sunnies respect the Qur'an more than us
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2015, 10:09:15 AM »
where has this Logical Islam user gone to?

Furkan

Re: Shia admit: Sunnies respect the Qur'an more than us
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2015, 02:17:20 AM »
He went for searching something called "logic", though it may take long in his case :p
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Al Dukhan

Re: Shia admit: Sunnies respect the Qur'an more than us
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2015, 10:51:39 AM »
That was funny lol !
No regrets<

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

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Re: Shia admit: Sunnies respect the Qur'an more than us
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2017, 10:59:03 PM »
I wouldn't say all of us, Shi'a in Arab countries are sometimes heavily into the Holy Qur'an (in Iraq for example), and Iran is one of the world's best countries in producing quraa' and in fact have a lot of competitions which thousands of Iranians participate in (government inititaves).

But overall I agree with you that Sunnis, overall, pay much more attention to Qur'anic recitations than us. It is sad in so many ways, and one of the calamities of the Shi'i community.
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Rationalist

Re: Shia admit: Sunnies respect the Qur'an more than us
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2017, 03:52:20 AM »
Also admitted here:

Link

Re: Shia admit: Sunnies respect the Qur'an more than us
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2017, 11:39:51 PM »
Whoever recites the Qur'an and does not humble himself before Allah, whose heart is not softened, nor regret and fear provoked within him, undervalues the immensity of Allah's affair and is in a clear state of loss.
 
The person who recites the Qur'an needs three things: a fearful heart, a tranquil and receptive body, and an appropriate place to recite. When his heart fears Allah, then the accursed Satan flees from him. As Allah said,
 

فَإِذَا قَرَأْتَ الْقُرْآنَ فَاسْتَعِذْ بِاللّهِ مِنَ الشَّيْطَانِ الرَّجِيمِ
 

When you recite the Qur'an, seek refuge with Allah from the accursed Shaytan. (16:98)
 
When he frees himself of all attachments, then his heart is devoted to recitation, and nothing impedes him from obtaining the blessing of the light of the Qur'an and its benefits. When he finds an empty place and withdraws from people, having acquired the two qualities of humility of heart and tranquility of body, then his soul and his innermost being will feel communion with Allah, and he will discover the sweetness of how Allah speaks to His right-acting bondsmen, how He shows His gentleness, to them and singles them out for all the varieties of His marks of honour and wondrous signs. If he drinks a cup of this drink, he will never prefer any other state to this nor any other moment to this. He will prefer this to every act of obedience and devotion, since it contains intimate conversation with the Lord, without any intermediary.
 
So beware of how you read the Book of your Lord, the guardian to whom you aspire, how you respond to His commands and avoid His prohibitions, and how you observe His limits, for it is a mighty Book: Falsehood shall not come to it from before it nor from behind it,
 

تَنزِيلٌ مِّنْ حَكِيمٍ حَمِيدٍ
 

a revelation from the Wise, the Praised One. (41:42)
 
Therefore recite it in an orderly manner and contemplatively and adhere to the limits of His promise and His threat. Reflect on its examples and warnings. Beware of paying undue respect to the recitation of its letters while failing to observe the legal limits contained therein.




And:

Someone who recites without knowledge is like a vain man who has neither property nor wealth; for people do not hate someone for his lack of possessions, but they detest him for his vanity. He is always at odds with creation in that which is not obligatory upon him, and he who contests creation in what he is not commanded to do is contesting the process of creativity and absolute lordship.
 
As Allah said,

وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ
 

Among men is he who disputes in respect of Allah though having no knowledge, nor guidance, nor a book giving light. (31:20)
 
None will have a harsher punishment than someone who claims a right to the mantle of knowledge without having either the truth or the meaning of it.
 
Zayd ibn Thabit said to his son, 'My son, do not let Allah see your name in the register of the vain reciters.' And the Holy Prophet said, 'A time will come for my community in which hearing the name of the man who recites will be considered better than studying, and studying will be considered better than doing the thing with experience ... The greatest number of hypocrites in my community are among the reciters of the Qur'an.'
 
Be where the faith recommends you to be, and where you are commanded to be. Conceal your inner state from other people as much as you can. Make your acts of obedience to Allah have the same relationship as your soul has to your body, so they become an indication of the state you have attained between yourself and your Originator. Seek Allah's help in all your affairs, and beseech Allah humbly at the end of the night and at the end of the day. Allah said,
 

ادْعُواْ رَبَّكُمْ تَضَرُّعًا وَخُفْيَةً إِنَّهُ لاَ يُحِبُّ الْمُعْتَدِينَ
 

Call on your Lord humbly and secretly; surely He does not love those who exceed the limits. (7:55)
 
Transgressing is one of the attributes, indeed, one of the hallmarks, of the reciters of our time. Be fearful of Allah in all your affairs, so that you do not fall into the arena of desire and destroy yourself.
 


And:The hypocrite is content to be far from the mercy of Allah, because his outward actions appear to be in line with Islamic laws; and yet he is heedless and ineffective, mocking and transgressing its truthfulness in his heart.
 
The mark of hypocrisy is disregard for lies, treachery, insolence, false claims, insincerity, foolishness, error and lack of modesty, making little of acts of disobedience, desiring believers to lose faith, and making light of misfortunes in the faith; pride, praise, praise of love, love of praise, envy, preferring this world to the next and evil to good, inciting slander, love of amusement, dealing with prevaricators, helping aggressive people avoiding good deeds, disparaging those who do good, considering good the evil done by the hypocrite and recognizing as odious whatever good another person does; and many other things like that.
 
Allah has described the hypocrites in more than one place. He said,
 

وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يَعْبُدُ اللَّهَ عَلَى حَرْفٍ فَإِنْ أَصَابَهُ خَيْرٌ اطْمَأَنَّ بِهِ وَإِنْ أَصَابَتْهُ فِتْنَةٌ انقَلَبَ عَلَى وَجْهِهِ خَسِرَ الدُّنْيَا وَالْآخِرَةَ ذَلِكَ هُوَ الْخُسْرَانُ الْمُبِينُ
And among men is he who serves Allah [standing] on the verge. So that if good befalls him he is satisfied therewith, but if a trial afflicts him he turns back headlong; he loses this world as well as the next; that is a manifest loss. (22:11)
 
In describing them, Allah said,

 
وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يَقُولُ آمَنَّا بِاللّهِ وَبِالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَمَا هُم بِمُؤْمِنِينَ. يُخَادِعُونَ اللّهَ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَمَا يَخْدَعُونَ إِلاَّ أَنفُسَهُم وَمَا يَشْعُرُونَ. فِي قُلُوبِهِم مَّرَضٌ فَزَادَهُمُ اللّهُ مَرَضاً وَلَهُم عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ بِمَا كَانُوا يَكْذِبُونَ
There are some people who say, "We believe in Allah and the Last Day", but they are not at all believers. They desire to deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive only themselves while they do not perceive. There is a disease in their hearts, so Allah added to their disease. (2:8-10)
 
The Holy Prophet said, 'The hypocrite is he who, having made a promise, breaks it; when he acts, he does evil; when he speaks, he lies; when he is trusted, he betrays; when he is given provision, he is reckless; when it is withheld, he makes much of his life.'
 
He also said, 'A person whose innermost being contradicts his public face is a hypocrite whoever he is, wherever he is, in whatever time he lives, and whatever rank he has.'
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 11:41:04 PM by Link »
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

أبو ماريا المرزم

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Re: Shia admit: Sunnies respect the Qur'an more than us
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2017, 06:19:10 PM »
I stopped reading when he put "Muslim" after "shia"
They asked how many will be with the one I hate. I said 313

muslim720

Re: Shia admit: Sunnies respect the Qur'an more than us
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2017, 12:00:25 AM »
Whoever recites the Qur'an and does not humble himself before Allah, whose heart is not softened, nor regret and fear provoked within him, undervalues the immensity of Allah's affair and is in a clear state of loss.

Typical Shia response!  How do you know that the hundreds of thousands of mainstream Muslims, who spend hours memorizing the Qur'an and learning tajweed, are hypocrites and the Qur'an does not go beyond their throats?  By adopting this attitude that you are displaying, Shias have equated good recitation to lack of humility just because it is a subject you're weak at.

MuslimK

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Re: Shia admit: Sunnies respect the Qur'an more than us
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2017, 01:02:23 AM »
Sunnis are superior to Shias (and other sects) in every Quranic field whether it is science or Tafsir.
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Link

Re: Shia admit: Sunnies respect the Qur'an more than us
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2017, 06:10:52 PM »
Whoever recites the Qur'an and does not humble himself before Allah, whose heart is not softened, nor regret and fear provoked within him, undervalues the immensity of Allah's affair and is in a clear state of loss.

Typical Shia response!  How do you know that the hundreds of thousands of mainstream Muslims, who spend hours memorizing the Qur'an and learning tajweed, are hypocrites and the Qur'an does not go beyond their throats?  By adopting this attitude that you are displaying, Shias have equated good recitation to lack of humility just because it is a subject you're weak at.

Because they do their best with hearts of devils to put out its light.
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

muslim720

Re: Shia admit: Sunnies respect the Qur'an more than us
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2017, 08:43:52 PM »
Because they do their best with hearts of devils to put out its light.

Because they cannot see the imaginary "captains" in the Qur'an which your caterpillar eyebrows so perfectly detects?  And you have the knowledge of unseen to look in their hearts?  Your supposed 12th Imam is on the run without leaving you with an authentic book and you can read what is in people's hearts! 
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 08:46:20 PM by muslim720 »

Link

Re: Shia admit: Sunnies respect the Qur'an more than us
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2017, 09:01:35 PM »
Because they do their best with hearts of devils to put out its light.

Because they cannot see the imaginary "captains" in the Qur'an which your caterpillar eyebrows so perfectly detects?  And you have the knowledge of unseen to look in their hearts?  Your supposed 12th Imam is on the run without leaving you with an authentic book and you can read what is in people's hearts!

Whoever believes in God, God guides their heart. And whoever believes in the Taghut and equates God in that in their love, will be immersed in darkness.

Ahlulbayt are the treasures of Quran, who knows them not, knows not the book but rather is immersed in dark sorcery and believes in the Taghut.

It as God says, it was never due to it being unclear that his rope was not held on to, but rather people became divided despite clear proofs and held on to other than those who he guides by the truth and guide by his command, those who disconnect from the chosen family of the reminder in each age and time,  they know nothing of the book but what their desires want from it.

They understand nothing and disconnect themselves from the guidance because of envious hate towards the chosen ones and their followers, out of love of their own identity and other idols linked to their identity.

It is sad a loss indeed that all their Salah and acts of worship will take on forms of snakes and devils when they came with insincerity to God and his chosen ones.

Sad loss indeed.

Go on deceiving yourself, I would have to disbelieve in the Quran to have any reverence towards you or your supposed scholars or Quran reciters.

Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

muslim720

Re: Shia admit: Sunnies respect the Qur'an more than us
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2017, 09:31:10 PM »
And whoever believes in the Taghut and equates God in that in their love, will be immersed in darkness.

Exactly, and you have taken up 12 Imams (ra) in a Taghut-ized (if there is such a word) concept to rival Allah (swt) and the Prophet (saw).  I have heard this from the mouth of a Shia imam - in the presence of two other Shias - that Imams (ra) are everything that Allah (swt) is but a degree (or notch) lower.  That is the definition of Taghut for those who also claim to be Muslims.

Hadrami

Re: Shia admit: Sunnies respect the Qur'an more than us
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2017, 10:46:38 AM »
Sunnis are superior to Shias (and other sects) in every Quranic field whether it is science or Tafsir.

So true, shia learn quran from us & one of their idol is Abdul Basit, a person who love Abu Bakr aka nasibi :p


 

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