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Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Quran-Tafseer => Topic started by: Rationalist on January 20, 2015, 12:08:43 AM

Title: Surah Abasa
Post by: Rationalist on January 20, 2015, 12:08:43 AM
Salaam
I just wanted to know why the 12er Shia find it offensive when the Prophet (pbuh) is referred to in Surah Abasa.

80:1 He frowned and turned away.
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Furkan on January 20, 2015, 12:16:11 AM
Checking tafseer ibn katheer or tafseer of imam qurtubi might help us to get the correct sunni view.
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Rationalist on January 20, 2015, 12:44:38 AM
I don't have any issue with it, but I want the 12ers to discuss why I am wrong in accepting such a view.
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Husayn on January 20, 2015, 01:02:21 AM
The issue has to do with 'isma (infallibility) - as if the Prophet (saw) could be annoyed by or ignore the blind man.

So they attribute these verses to other individuals (I've heard it attributed to 'Uthman (ra)) - even though it makes absolutely no sense to do so.

But yeah - infallibility is the big issue for the Shiis when it comes to this.
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Rationalist on January 20, 2015, 01:43:58 AM
Okay if this interferes with infallibility why do the 12ers have no issue accepting that the Prophet (pbuh) did not know who the monafiqeen were. Yet the Imams, they supposedly have this power to know who is a monafiq.
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Husayn on January 20, 2015, 02:40:31 AM
Okay if this interferes with infallibility why do the 12ers have no issue accepting that the Prophet (pbuh) did not know who the monafiqeen were. Yet the Imams, they supposedly have this power to know who is a monafiq.

I ask this question once - and I got the following answer (roughly):

The Prophet (saw) did know who the munafiqeen were, but because they hid it, he couldn't do anything about it.

Same as how 'Ali (ra) knew that Ibn Muljim would kill him - but because this was "hidden knowledge", he was not allowed to or couldn't do anything about it.

-----

Yeah, I know, it sounds ridiculous, but what else are they going to say?
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Husayn on January 20, 2015, 03:53:53 AM
Here you go:

Quote
They had to live with the people on the level of the common people. They were not to use their super-natural knowledge or power for their own benefit or for averting any harm from themselves. (In fact, it was a very tough test for them to know that a certain man or woman would harm them or their children and then behave with him/her in the normal way.) That is why 'Ali (a.s.) did not punish or imprison Ibn Muljim, although he knew that the latter would assassinate him."[10]

[10] Al-Mufid, al-Irshad, p. 314; in English, see p. 236

http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=105

So what is the point of 'ilm al-ghayb?

----

As usual, it seems, this thread has gone off-topic :) My sincerest apologies.
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Rationalist on January 20, 2015, 11:53:55 AM
Here you go:

Quote
They had to live with the people on the level of the common people. They were not to use their super-natural knowledge or power for their own benefit or for averting any harm from themselves. (In fact, it was a very tough test for them to know that a certain man or woman would harm them or their children and then behave with him/her in the normal way.) That is why 'Ali (a.s.) did not punish or imprison Ibn Muljim, although he knew that the latter would assassinate him."[10]

[10] Al-Mufid, al-Irshad, p. 314; in English, see p. 236

http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=105

So what is the point of 'ilm al-ghayb?

----

As usual, it seems, this thread has gone off-topic :) My sincerest apologies.

No I want to discuss this ilm-al Gayb and stuff because its the only way Surah Abasa makes sense, and doesn't in anyway refute the infallibility of the Prophet (pbuh) even if he is the one who frowned to blind man who couldn't see his reaction.

Anyway, how do they interpret this verse.

And among those around you of the bedouins are hypocrites, and [also] from the people of Madinah. They have become accustomed to hypocrisy. You, [O Muhammad], do not know them, [but] We know them. (Quran 9:101)

Also,  Ibn Muljim isn't the only problem. Even Ibn Ziyad was on Imam Ali's (as) camp at one point who had been given responsibility.
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Hani on January 20, 2015, 01:03:43 PM
That's true, `Ali according to their "excuse" knew they're evil but could not act upon it since "no reason actually", yet he did appoint certain men in positions of authority who later abandoned his camp. I mean if he didn't want to punish them before hand that's somewhat acceptable but why reward them by placing them in authority?
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Abu Zayd on January 20, 2015, 01:13:46 PM
The last point was covered here
http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235012824-why-arent-the-ansar-worse-than-abubakr-and-umar/page-9
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Optimus Prime on January 20, 2015, 01:21:39 PM
Salaam
I just wanted to know why the 12er Shia find it offensive when the Prophet (pbuh) is referred to in Surah Abasa.

80:1 He frowned and turned away.


Rationalist, if you don't mind me asking are you Sunni or Shia?
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Invoker on January 20, 2015, 05:12:03 PM
This issue is simple inshAllah using Allah's words only no need for Tafseer:

Here are 5 verses Directly Addressing the person who Frowned: (Surat Abasah)

وما < يدريك > لعله يزكى → "And how can <you know> that he might become pure"
فأنت > له تصدى > → "To him <you> attend"
وما < عليك > ألا يزكى → "And it is not <upon you> that he does not get pure"
وأما من < جاءك > يسعى → "As to him who <came to you> striving"
فأنت > عنه تلهى > → "From him will <you> divert yourself"

Allah swt is addressing the <<Revealed To>> → The Person who Frowned.

Therefore:
Person Receiving Revelation from Allah swt = Mohammed saw
If Mohammed saw Receieved Quran Revelation → Frowned Man is Mohammed saw
If Other Received Quran Revelation → Frowned Man is Other



The significance of these verses is not who frowned and if the Qur'an resorted to mentioning names, then the verses will be restricted to the occasion of its revelation and lose its universality and the moral lesson it teaches.

The surah deals with a moral standard; Allah admonishes those who regard the poor and blind people low because they have an equal potential of purifying themselves.
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Hani on January 20, 2015, 06:32:10 PM
The last point was covered here
http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235012824-why-arent-the-ansar-worse-than-abubakr-and-umar/page-9

This thread you linked us to is a mess, I'm proud to be a member of this forum now since SC is such a mess.

And come on skype you, there's stuff we can discuss = p
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Rationalist on January 20, 2015, 11:40:12 PM
Salaam
I just wanted to know why the 12er Shia find it offensive when the Prophet (pbuh) is referred to in Surah Abasa.

80:1 He frowned and turned away.


Rationalist, if you don't mind me asking are you Sunni or Shia?
Salaam
I just wanted to know why the 12er Shia find it offensive when the Prophet (pbuh) is referred to in Surah Abasa.

80:1 He frowned and turned away.


Rationalist, if you don't mind me asking are you Sunni or Shia?

My username is Abdaal on islamic-forum. I didn't want to use that anymore because I am not so much into Sufism anymore.
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Rationalist on January 20, 2015, 11:53:35 PM
The last point was covered here
http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235012824-why-arent-the-ansar-worse-than-abubakr-and-umar/page-9
We need to question this issue from a theological point of view.
There are a couple problems here.
The companions who didn't accept the divinely appointed Caliphate were monafiqeen, and now Imam Ali (as) allowed fasiqs in powers. Again one is a fasiq according to the theology of 12ers for rejecting divinely appointed Caliphate. Then in Najh Al Balagha he warns Ziyad to fear Allah (refer to Letter 20), but he is supposedly is going to hell anyway for not accepting divinely appointed so Caliphate what's the point of the warning ?

Now with Muhammad bin Abi Bakr (ra) there could be a better defense from the 12ers, but even with that decision Imam Ali (as) had to rethink the governor position of Egypt  where tried to replace him Malik Al Asthar (ra). In this case we can work around asking how much of the future he himself knew through ilm Al Jafr. However, the case with Ziyad bin Abi isn't solved, and of course one has to question the majority bayah from those who accepted the Imam as the 4th Calipah.
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Optimus Prime on January 21, 2015, 12:00:20 AM
Salaam
I just wanted to know why the 12er Shia find it offensive when the Prophet (pbuh) is referred to in Surah Abasa.

80:1 He frowned and turned away.


Rationalist, if you don't mind me asking are you Sunni or Shia?
Salaam
I just wanted to know why the 12er Shia find it offensive when the Prophet (pbuh) is referred to in Surah Abasa.

80:1 He frowned and turned away.


Rationalist, if you don't mind me asking are you Sunni or Shia?

My username is Abdaal on islamic-forum. I didn't want to use that anymore because I am not so much into Sufism anymore.


Welcome to the forum.

Yeah, that site is dead and went down too often than not.
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: scusemyenglish on July 10, 2016, 08:59:14 PM
Salam.

I have read in this site that some Sunni believed it's not the messengers saws who was concerned here.

According to this website there is also

Voir Madjma’a Al bayane, V. 10, p 437, et ensuite le Tafsir el bourhane, V. 4, p 428, ou le Tafsir Nour ethhakaleyn, V5, p 509.

http://www.scansislam.fr/refutations/sunnisme/qui-sest-renfrogne/

Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: scusemyenglish on July 11, 2016, 04:37:23 PM
If someone can provide me an article  about the issu of surah Abasa please.

Little by little I am discovering Shiasm :=P
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Solomon on July 12, 2016, 01:24:26 PM
Salaam
I just wanted to know why the 12er Shia find it offensive when the Prophet (pbuh) is referred to in Surah Abasa.

80:1 He frowned and turned away.
Wssalam

Brother, All-Knowing God has highly praised the great character and behavior of beloved Prophet(s) in Quran so on other side(in this surah) harshly rebuking  tone for such a ugly deed(turning away from poors and blind) can not  be considered as the characteristic of leader of all prophets.
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: ShiaMan on July 12, 2016, 07:33:47 PM
Let's take it one bit at a time:

[Quran 80:1] He frowned and turned (his) back,
[Quran 80:2] Because there came to him the blind man.
[Quran 80:3] And what would make you know that he would purify himself,
[Quran 80:4] Or become reminded so that the reminder should profit him?
[Quran 80:5] As for him who considers himself free from need (of you),
[Quran 80:6] To him do you address yourself.
[Quran 80:7] And no blame is on you if he would not purify himself
[Quran 80:8] And as to him who comes to you striving hard,
[Quran 80:9] And he fears,
[Quran 80:10] From him will you divert yourself.
[Quran 80:11] Nay! surely it is an admonishment.
[Quran 80:12] So let him who pleases mind it.

Can we agree there are 3 personalities being discussed here namely the blind man, "he/him", "you"?
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: scusemyenglish on July 12, 2016, 10:10:27 PM
It's true that Some shia are agree with us ? about the fact that "He frowed" it's linked to the messenger puh?
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: ShiaMan on July 12, 2016, 10:37:09 PM
It's true that Some shia are agree with us ? about the fact that "He frowed" it's linked to the messenger puh?

The shias with knowledge do not agree with you. Is it possible that someone other than the Prophet is also being referred to in the Surah. The text interchanges between you and he/him?
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Solomon on July 13, 2016, 04:28:18 AM
It's true that Some shia are agree with us ? about the fact that "He frowed" it's linked to the messenger puh?

So brother,do you think such a harsh rebuke from God and this lowly act is attributed to prophet(s)??
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: scusemyenglish on July 13, 2016, 07:25:34 AM
It's true that Some shia are agree with us ? about the fact that "He frowed" it's linked to the messenger puh?

So brother,do you think such a harsh rebuke from God and this lowly act is attributed to prophet(s)??

Salam Bro.

It's not against you but I have read our scholars they forbid to debate with those we consider like "innovators".

Honnestly I 'm totally convinced that our scholars are above scholars of other group.

For be convinced of that, it sufficient to see the advice of our scholars since many centurie about the prediction about the futur.

When you see Nawawi knew Irak will be under umbargo, Bukhari knew one day all people will live with riba ... It's difficult for me to imagine our scholars made mistake when they talk about Surah Abasa or the fact that Ali was near of Abou Bakr and Omar...

Methodology of our scholars is largely above other group because  when they give an advice they gathered all proofs about one subjet. And the man who was strong with this methodology was Ibn Taymiya.

Our scholars forbide to debates with those whe consider like innovator even if you are a scholar! So imagine for simple man like us. Since Imam Malik . And they take this advice from the Qu'ran.

I hope you undersand, dear brother in humanity, my wish to not debate but also follow advice of Jama'a. Because we are for the peace around Ali, Abou Bakr, Aicha, Omar etc... Not the perpetual war.

Barak Allah ou fik .
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Solomon on July 13, 2016, 09:01:00 AM
^
I always try to discuss issues rather than debating, as islam directs.
 
No brother, i am also a layman not any academic scholar.

Wssalam
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: al-kulayni on July 13, 2016, 11:03:21 AM
Assalamu Aleykum akhi,

Tabarsi in his tafsir Majmu Al Bayan give two options to this verse :

- This verse concerne the prophet (saws) and for Tabarsi, "he" in this verse was the Prophet (s), he answers to the question was it a sin to frown and turn away from the blind man ? Tabarsi answers by saying to smile or to make a face to a blind man is the same thing (because the man doesn't see anything). For him it's not a problem if the Prophet was blamed by Allah because Allah wanted to improve his behavior and to show him the great position of a mu'min.
- This verse concerne one man from Bani Umayyah

فإن قيل فلو صح الخبر الأول هل يكون العبوس ذنباً أم لا فالجواب أن العبوس والانبساط مع الأعمى سواء إذ لا يشق عليه ذلك فلا يكون ذنباً فيجوز أن يكون عاتب الله سبحانه بذلك نبيه صلى الله عليه وسلم ليأخذه بأوفر محاسن الأخلاقوينبّهه بذلك على عظم حال المؤمن المسترشد ويعرفه أن تأليف المؤمن ليقيم على إيمانه أولى من تأليف المشرك طمعاً في إيمانه
http://lib.eshia.ir/12023/10/266

Ayatullah Tabatabai says in his Tafsir Al Meezan that there are sunni reports saying the story about Ibn Um Maktoum the blind man and the Prophet (s) and then he says "in some shia reports, we have some indications towards that story"
 وردت الروايات من طرق أهل السنة أن الآيات نزلت في قصة ابن أم مكتوم الأعمى دخل على النبي صلى‌الله‌عليه‌وآله وعنده قوم من صناديد قريش يناجيهم في أمر الإسلام فعبس النبي عنه فعاتبه الله تعالى بهذه الآيات وفي بعض الأخبار من طرق الشيعة إشارة إلى ذلك.

And then he says in some shia reports, it was a man from Bani Umayyah :
وفي بعض روايات الشيعة أن العابس المتولي رجل من بني أمية
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: ShiaMan on July 13, 2016, 04:03:58 PM
Assalamu Aleykum akhi,

Tabarsi in his tafsir Majmu Al Bayan give two options to this verse :

- This verse concerne the prophet (saws) and for Tabarsi, "he" in this verse was the Prophet (s), he answers to the question was it a sin to frown and turn away from the blind man ? Tabarsi answers by saying to smile or to make a face to a blind man is the same thing (because the man doesn't see anything). For him it's not a problem if the Prophet was blamed by Allah because Allah wanted to improve his behavior and to show him the great position of a mu'min.
- This verse concerne one man from Bani Umayyah

فإن قيل فلو صح الخبر الأول هل يكون العبوس ذنباً أم لا فالجواب أن العبوس والانبساط مع الأعمى سواء إذ لا يشق عليه ذلك فلا يكون ذنباً فيجوز أن يكون عاتب الله سبحانه بذلك نبيه صلى الله عليه وسلم ليأخذه بأوفر محاسن الأخلاقوينبّهه بذلك على عظم حال المؤمن المسترشد ويعرفه أن تأليف المؤمن ليقيم على إيمانه أولى من تأليف المشرك طمعاً في إيمانه
http://lib.eshia.ir/12023/10/266

Ayatullah Tabatabai says in his Tafsir Al Meezan that there are sunni reports saying the story about Ibn Um Maktoum the blind man and the Prophet (s) and then he says "in some shia reports, we have some indications towards that story"
 وردت الروايات من طرق أهل السنة أن الآيات نزلت في قصة ابن أم مكتوم الأعمى دخل على النبي صلى‌الله‌عليه‌وآله وعنده قوم من صناديد قريش يناجيهم في أمر الإسلام فعبس النبي عنه فعاتبه الله تعالى بهذه الآيات وفي بعض الأخبار من طرق الشيعة إشارة إلى ذلك.

And then he says in some shia reports, it was a man from Bani Umayyah :
وفي بعض روايات الشيعة أن العابس المتولي رجل من بني أمية


we haven't even gotten to the various tafsirs and mizans yet. Simple question that you guys are having a hard time answering.

Does the Surah refer to 3 people (blind man, he/him, you) in the conversation or 2 people (blind man and you/he/him)?

It is a simple question folks.
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Noor-us-Sunnah on July 14, 2016, 05:09:20 AM
Assalamu Aleykum akhi,

Tabarsi in his tafsir Majmu Al Bayan give two options to this verse :

- This verse concerne the prophet (saws) and for Tabarsi, "he" in this verse was the Prophet (s), he answers to the question was it a sin to frown and turn away from the blind man ? Tabarsi answers by saying to smile or to make a face to a blind man is the same thing (because the man doesn't see anything). For him it's not a problem if the Prophet was blamed by Allah because Allah wanted to improve his behavior and to show him the great position of a mu'min.
- This verse concerne one man from Bani Umayyah

فإن قيل فلو صح الخبر الأول هل يكون العبوس ذنباً أم لا فالجواب أن العبوس والانبساط مع الأعمى سواء إذ لا يشق عليه ذلك فلا يكون ذنباً فيجوز أن يكون عاتب الله سبحانه بذلك نبيه صلى الله عليه وسلم ليأخذه بأوفر محاسن الأخلاقوينبّهه بذلك على عظم حال المؤمن المسترشد ويعرفه أن تأليف المؤمن ليقيم على إيمانه أولى من تأليف المشرك طمعاً في إيمانه
http://lib.eshia.ir/12023/10/266

Ayatullah Tabatabai says in his Tafsir Al Meezan that there are sunni reports saying the story about Ibn Um Maktoum the blind man and the Prophet (s) and then he says "in some shia reports, we have some indications towards that story"
 وردت الروايات من طرق أهل السنة أن الآيات نزلت في قصة ابن أم مكتوم الأعمى دخل على النبي صلى‌الله‌عليه‌وآله وعنده قوم من صناديد قريش يناجيهم في أمر الإسلام فعبس النبي عنه فعاتبه الله تعالى بهذه الآيات وفي بعض الأخبار من طرق الشيعة إشارة إلى ذلك.

And then he says in some shia reports, it was a man from Bani Umayyah :
وفي بعض روايات الشيعة أن العابس المتولي رجل من بني أمية


we haven't even gotten to the various tafsirs and mizans yet. Simple question that you guys are having a hard time answering.

Does the Surah refer to 3 people (blind man, he/him, you) in the conversation or 2 people (blind man and you/he/him)?

It is a simple question folks.
LOL. Desperation.
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Solomon on July 14, 2016, 05:37:09 AM
Assalamu Aleykum akhi,

Tabarsi in his tafsir Majmu Al Bayan give two options to this verse :

- This verse concerne the prophet (saws) and for Tabarsi, "he" in this verse was the Prophet (s), he answers to the question was it a sin to frown and turn away from the blind man ? Tabarsi answers by saying to smile or to make a face to a blind man is the same thing (because the man doesn't see anything). For him it's not a problem if the Prophet was blamed by Allah because Allah wanted to improve his behavior and to show him the great position of a mu'min.
- This verse concerne one man from Bani Umayyah

فإن قيل فلو صح الخبر الأول هل يكون العبوس ذنباً أم لا فالجواب أن العبوس والانبساط مع الأعمى سواء إذ لا يشق عليه ذلك فلا يكون ذنباً فيجوز أن يكون عاتب الله سبحانه بذلك نبيه صلى الله عليه وسلم ليأخذه بأوفر محاسن الأخلاقوينبّهه بذلك على عظم حال المؤمن المسترشد ويعرفه أن تأليف المؤمن ليقيم على إيمانه أولى من تأليف المشرك طمعاً في إيمانه
http://lib.eshia.ir/12023/10/266

Ayatullah Tabatabai says in his Tafsir Al Meezan that there are sunni reports saying the story about Ibn Um Maktoum the blind man and the Prophet (s) and then he says "in some shia reports, we have some indications towards that story"
 وردت الروايات من طرق أهل السنة أن الآيات نزلت في قصة ابن أم مكتوم الأعمى دخل على النبي صلى‌الله‌عليه‌وآله وعنده قوم من صناديد قريش يناجيهم في أمر الإسلام فعبس النبي عنه فعاتبه الله تعالى بهذه الآيات وفي بعض الأخبار من طرق الشيعة إشارة إلى ذلك.

And then he says in some shia reports, it was a man from Bani Umayyah :
وفي بعض روايات الشيعة أن العابس المتولي رجل من بني أمية

Yep akhi, you said correct as  sunnis have tradtion it was prophet and few shia tradition compilations consist the same. But few not all.Other tradition says it was Usman bin Affan who has been harshly rebuked.
As for the tradition which points it was prophet(s) goes against quran. Isn't it?

Secondly ,Do you consider the third person(HE) is prophet(s)?

Wssalam
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: ShiaMan on July 14, 2016, 05:37:16 PM
LOL. Desperation.

Yep akhi, you said correct as  sunnis have tradtion it was prophet and few shia tradition compilations consist the same. But few not all.Other tradition says it was Usman bin Affan who has been harshly rebuked.
As for the tradition which points it was prophet(s) goes against quran. Isn't it?

Secondly ,Do you consider the third person(HE) is prophet(s)?

Wssalam


It seems like my brothers have a hard time understand the Quran so they keep putting out explanations A, B, C, etc.

Let me color code it for you guys:
Surah Abasa:

[Quran 80:1] He frowned and turned (his) back,
[Quran 80:2] Because there came to him the blind man.
[Quran 80:3] And what would make you know that he would purify himself,
[Quran 80:4] Or become reminded so that the reminder should profit him?
[Quran 80:5] As for him who considers himself free from need (of you),
[Quran 80:6] To him do you address yourself.
[Quran 80:7] And no blame is on you if he would not purify himself
[Quran 80:8] And as to him who comes to you striving hard,
[Quran 80:9] And he fears,
[Quran 80:10] From him will you divert yourself.
[Quran 80:11] Nay! surely it is an admonishment.

All I have done above is split out blind man, him/he/himself and you/yourself.

Even within this, him is used to refer to the blind man and another person.

Surely, we guys understand this.
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Solomon on July 15, 2016, 04:58:10 AM
It seems like my brothers have a hard time understand the Quran so they keep putting out explanations A, B, C, etc.

Let me color code it for you guys:
Surah Abasa:

[Quran 80:1] He frowned and turned (his) back,
[Quran 80:2] Because there came to him the blind man.
[Quran 80:3] And what would make you know that he would purify himself,
[Quran 80:4] Or become reminded so that the reminder should profit him?
[Quran 80:5] As for him who considers himself free from need (of you),
[Quran 80:6] To him do you address yourself.
[Quran 80:7] And no blame is on you if he would not purify himself
[Quran 80:8] And as to him who comes to you striving hard,
[Quran 80:9] And he fears,
[Quran 80:10] From him will you divert yourself.
[Quran 80:11] Nay! surely it is an admonishment.

All I have done above is split out blind man, him/he/himself and you/yourself.

Even within this, him is used to refer to the blind man and another person.

Surely, we guys understand this.
Salam,
Yep bro, this was not the first time ppl fabricated/spoke against prophet/imam in order to save the honor of their tribe/themselves.
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Rationalist on July 16, 2016, 03:44:51 PM
Salam,
Yep bro, this was not the first time ppl fabricated/spoke against prophet/imam in order to save the honor of their tribe/themselves.
And those who said the Quran is incomplete in your sect are still momins?
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Bolani Muslim on July 17, 2016, 12:30:06 AM
It seems like my brothers have a hard time understand the Quran so they keep putting out explanations A, B, C, etc.

Let me color code it for you guys:
Surah Abasa:

[Quran 80:1] He frowned and turned (his) back,
[Quran 80:2] Because there came to him the blind man.
[Quran 80:3] And what would make you know that he would purify himself,
[Quran 80:4] Or become reminded so that the reminder should profit him?
[Quran 80:5] As for him who considers himself free from need (of you),
[Quran 80:6] To him do you address yourself.
[Quran 80:7] And no blame is on you if he would not purify himself
[Quran 80:8] And as to him who comes to you striving hard,
[Quran 80:9] And he fears,
[Quran 80:10] From him will you divert yourself.
[Quran 80:11] Nay! surely it is an admonishment.

All I have done above is split out blind man, him/he/himself and you/yourself.

Even within this, him is used to refer to the blind man and another person.

Surely, we guys understand this.
Do you speak any other languages? A simple example is ¿Cómo está? can mean 'How are you?' or "How is s/he?' whereas ¿Cómo estás? means 'How are you?' but is different then 'How are you?' in ¿Cómo está?. I can give other examples in Farsi.

Firstly, we don't base Quran rulings and interpretations off meaning in English, because we would then fall into the same problems as the Christians. Hope you understand and if you speak another language, will realize the problem. Your argument is baseless as it's not based off the original language of the Quran.
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Solomon on July 17, 2016, 06:42:03 AM
It seems like my brothers have a hard time understand the Quran so they keep putting out explanations A, B, C, etc.

Let me color code it for you guys:
Surah Abasa:

[Quran 80:1] He frowned and turned (his) back,
[Quran 80:2] Because there came to him the blind man.
[Quran 80:3] And what would make you know that he would purify himself,
[Quran 80:4] Or become reminded so that the reminder should profit him?
[Quran 80:5] As for him who considers himself free from need (of you),
[Quran 80:6] To him do you address yourself.
[Quran 80:7] And no blame is on you if he would not purify himself
[Quran 80:8] And as to him who comes to you striving hard,
[Quran 80:9] And he fears,
[Quran 80:10] From him will you divert yourself.
[Quran 80:11] Nay! surely it is an admonishment.

All I have done above is split out blind man, him/he/himself and you/yourself.

Even within this, him is used to refer to the blind man and another person.

Surely, we guys understand this.
Do you speak any other languages? A simple example is ¿Cómo está? can mean 'How are you?' or "How is s/he?' whereas ¿Cómo estás? means 'How are you?' but is different then 'How are you?' in ¿Cómo está?. I can give other examples in Farsi.

Firstly, we don't base Quran rulings and interpretations off meaning in English, because we would then fall into the same problems as the Christians. Hope you understand and if you speak another language, will realize the problem. Your argument is baseless as it's not based off the original language of the Quran.

Nope sister,u misunderstood, its the same third person in english as in arabic,u can go thru word by word arabic-english translation with grammar.
http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=80&verse=1
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Bolani Muslim on July 17, 2016, 09:07:08 AM
^Firstly, I'm a boy. Secondly, my point still stands. If you spoke another language besides English, then you would be able to understand. Unless you speak fluent Arabic, your post is meaningless.
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: Solomon on July 17, 2016, 09:47:58 AM
^   ;)
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: fgss on July 17, 2016, 02:55:29 PM
In view of the apparent style with which the discourse opens, one feels that in this Surah Allah has expressed His displeasure against the Holy Prophet (upon whom be peace) for his treating the blind man with indifference and attending to the big chiefs exclusively. But when the whole Surah is considered objectively, one finds that the displeasure, in fact, has been expressed against the disbelieving Quraish, who because of their arrogant attitude and indifference to the truth, were rejecting with contempt the message of truth being conveyed by the Holy Prophet (upon whom be peace).

This is the theme of vv. 1-16. From verse 17 onward the rebuke directly turns to the disbelievers, who were repudiating the invitation of the Holy Messenger of Allah (upon whom be peace). In this, first they have been reproved for their attitude which they had adopted against their Creator, Providence and Sustainer. In the end, they have been warned of the dreadful fate that they would meet in consequence of their conduct on the Day of Resurrection.

http://englishtafsir.com/Quran/80/index.html
Title: Re: Surah Abasa
Post by: ShiaMan on July 18, 2016, 06:32:42 PM
^Firstly, I'm a boy. Secondly, my point still stands. If you spoke another language besides English, then you would be able to understand. Unless you speak fluent Arabic, your post is meaningless.

Ok, then let's teach other Arabic and English at the same time. for references I will use readquranonline.org:

عَبَسَ وَتَوَلَّىِٰ
AAabasa watawalla
عَبَسَ
He frowned
 
وَتَوَلَّىٰٓ
and turned away,


Every single translator on that site refers to "He".

Next verse:
أَنْ جَاءَهُ الْأَعْمَىِٰ
An jaahu alaAAma
أَن
Because
 
جَآءَهُ
came to him
 
ٱلۡأَعۡمَىٰ
the blind man.


Every single translator uses "him"

Verse 3:
وَمَا يُدْرِيكَ لَعَلَّهُ يَزَّكَّىِٰ
Wama yudreeka laAAallahu yazzakka
وَمَا
But what
 
يُدۡرِيكَ
would make you know
 
لَعَلَّهُ ۥ
that he might
 
يَزَّكَّىٰٓ
purify himself,


Now, a "you" is mentioned.

We have already seen that all the translators agree there is a blind man, a "he/him" and a "you" mentioned.

So far so good?