Labeling Theory when did I say all shias believe in Tahrif? I said your top scholars like Majlisi believed it and showed you proof (even a shia saying he did wrong ijtihad).
Our top scholars do not believe in Tahrif, ill show you more proof. Stop reading from Sunni blogs, that make up lies. I told you a hundred times, go to real shia sources, not youtube links, not blogs, not satelitte scholars.
The definition of a real ulama is someone who dedicates his whole life to learning Islam not just a few years.
Here is your proof on tahreef.
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Where are you getting this list from? I'll answer this list for you.
Sheikh Kulayni:There isn't a statement from al-Kulayni that says that he believes in tahreef.
Sheikh Ayyashi:No statement from Ayyashi as well.
Sheikh Mufid:Didn't beleive in Tahrif and Not to mention his two major students al-Murtada and al-Tusi both never believed in tahreef
Hurr al-`Amili:This statement shows that Hurr al-`Amili was anti-Tahreef:
إنّ من تتبّع الأخبار وتفحّص التواريخ والآثار علم ـ علماً قطعيّاً ـ بأنّ القرآن قد بلغ أعلى درجات التواتر ، وأنّ آلاف الصحابة كانوا يحفطونه ويتلونه ، وأنّه كان على عهد رسول الله عليه وآله وسلّم مجموعاً مؤلّفاً
"If someone follows narrations, and examines history, the result is knowledge - definitive knowledge - that the Qur'an had reached the highest degree of tawaatur, And there were 1000s of companions that protected it and recited it, and that during the time of the Messenger of Allah it was collected and compiled"
These are the biggest Ulama in early shia history.
As for
Majlisi...1- First of All Al-Alma Al-Majlisi, is not claiming that he him self "Believes" In Tahreef of the Quran, he is stating that there are many narrations that have come over time that "lead" to change or missing parts..The word ( يدل) in this context does not mean "Prove" directly that it has been "proven".
2- Second of Al-Almama Al-Majilisi Rejects this narrations in "Context" and how they were transmitted. even if the chain is correct at times, take the following example from the narrations of the 17,000 extra verses:
" عَلِيُّ بْنُ الْحَكَمِ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع قَالَ إِنَّ الْقُرْآنَ الَّذِي جَاءَ بِهِ جَبْرَئِيلُ ع إِلَى مُحَمَّدٍ ص سَبْعَةَ عَشَرَ أَلْفَ آيَةٍ"
Then her writes:
we read in Mir'a'at Al-Oqool, fe Sharh akhbar Al-Rasul (مرآة العقول في شرح أخبار آل الرسول), By Al-Alama Al-Majilisi (مجلسي), volume 12, page 525, after he said:
فالخبر صحيح و لا يخفى أن هذا الخبر و كثير من الأخبار الصحيحة صريحة في نقص القرآن و تغييره، و عندي أن الأخبار في هذا الباب متواترة معنى، و طرح جميعها يوجب رفع الاعتماد عن الأخبار رأسا
"The khabar (hadeeth) is SaHeeH and it is obvious that this khabar (hadeeth) and other SaHeeH ones like it are clear about the Qur'aan being shortened and changed, and in my opinion, this is mutaawatir in meaning, and discarding these narrations would lead us to rejecting all akhbaar (narrations) in general."....
He did not stop there, let us keep reading..
بل ظني أن الأخبار في هذا الباب لا يقصر عن أخبار الإمامة فكيف يثبتونها بالخبر.
"But my doubt that Al-akhba'ar in this section, does not shorten from Al-Akhba'ar Al-Imamamiyah, so how can they approve of this by Akh'ba'ar?
We continue reading on page 525:
فإن قيل: إنه يوجب رفع الاعتماد على القرآن لأنه إذا ثبت تحريفه ففي كل آية يحتمل ذلك و تجويزهم عليهم السلام على قراءة هذا القرآن و العمل به متواتر معلوم إذ لم ينقل من أحد من الأصحاب أن أحدا من أئمتنا أعطاه قرانا أو علمه قراءة، و هذا ظاهر لمن تتبع الأخبار، و لعمري كيف يجترئون على التكلفات الركيكة في تلك الأخبار مثل ما قيل في هذا الخبر إن الآيات الزائدة عبارة عن الأخبار القدسية أو كانت التجزية بالآيات أكثر و في خبر لم يكن أن الأسماء كانت مكتوبة على الهامش على سبيل التفسير و الله تعالى يعلم و قال السيد حيدر الآملي في تفسيره أكثر القراء ذهبوا إلى أن سور القرآن بأسرها مائة و أربعة عشر سورة و إلى أن آياته ستة آلاف و ستمائة و ست و ستون آية و إلى أن كلماته سبعة و سبعون ألفا و أربعمائة و سبع و ثلاثون كلمة، و إلى أن حروفه ثلاثمائة آلاف و اثنان و عشرون ألفا و ستمائة و سبعون حرفا و إلى أن فتحاته ثلاثة و تسعون ألفا و مائتان و ثلاثة و أربعون فتحة، و إلى أن ضماته أربعون ألفا و ثمان مائة و أربع ضمات و إلى أن كسراته تسع و ثلاثون ألفا و خمسمائة و ستة و ثمانون كسرة، و إلى أن تشديداته تسعة عشر ألفا و مائتان و ثلاثة و خمسون تشديدة، و إلى أن مداته ألف و سبعمائة و أحد و سبعون مده و إلى أن همزاته ثلاث آلاف و مائتان و ثلاث و سبعون همزة
For if it is the Qeel (قيل / It was said): Its a "must" to lift the trust on the Quran, because if it is proved its distortion, then in every verse it is possible, and permitting (The Imams) peace be upon them on reading the Quran and acting on it is "Mutwa'atir and known, if non copied from the companions (of the Imams) that one of our Imams gave him a Quran or taught him recitations, and this is clear from thos who follow Al-Akhba'ar.
And for Amm'r'ee ( لعمري ), how do they have the face (Audacity) on these "weak sayings" in this Akhb'a'ar, just like what is said in this Kha'bar that the verse are extra, example of the holy Akhba'ar or if it was "Al-Tajzee'iyah". Rather the verses, in more than one Kha'bar, it was not the names written on the foot-notes on the sake of Tafs'ir and Allah knows best, and said Al-sayed haidar Al-Amuli ( السيد حيدر الآملي) in his Tafs'eer, the majority of the Reciters made clear that the Sur'ahs of the Quran, with all of them are One hundred and fourteen...."
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and here its clear the Kha'abar (meaning A report that is "It has been said") is Weak, even with the chain.2-
He condemns on of the Narrators for reporting it.3-
The Chain is fine, but the reporting is "Weak" because it is a "Qeel": meaning "It has been said" And even if we assumed that the narration is Authentic, the Shikeh Al-Sadooq Replies:
I quote from Sheikkh Al-Sadooq in Al-Itqad'at (الاعتقادات ), page 93.
وقال الشيخ الصدوق رضوان الله تعالى عليه في الاعتقادات : " بل نقول أنه قد نزل الوحي الذي ليس بقرآن ، ما لو جمع إلى القرآن لكان مبلغه مقدار سبع عشرة ألف آية ، وذلك قول جبرئيل عليه السلام للنبي صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم : إنّ الله تعالى يقول لك : يا محمد دارِ خلقي ، و مثل قوله : عش ما شئت فإنّك ميت ، وأحبب ما شئت فإنّك مفارقه ، و اعمل ما شئت فإنّك ملاقيه ، وشرف المؤمن صلاته بالليل و عزّه كفّ الأذى عن الناس " ، وقال : " إن القرآن الذي جاء به جبرائيل عليه السلام إلى محمد صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم سبعة عشر ألف آية"
"And said Sheikh Al-sadooq May Allah be pleased with him in his beliefs: "
We Rather say that it was Al-Wahi (Revelation) that is not the Quran,and if (assumed) that it was collected in the quran it would have exceeded seventeen thousand verses, and that is the saying of Jibr'il to the Prophet peace and blessings be upon him and his family: That Allah almighty says to you: "O Muhammad take care of my creatures." saying: "live what you will, for you are at death, and love what you will for you are leaving, and work what you will, for you will meet with it, and invite the believer, prayer at night, and lift the hand of "Ath'a" from the people, and said: "The Quran that came with Jibr'il (a.s) to Muhammad (s.a.w.a.s) seventeen thousand verses..."
So the major shia ulama did not believe in tahreef and neither do any present day ones.
Let me ask you something mister bolani, there is a hadith of the second caliph believing in tahreef from a sunni source, do you accept every hadith or just ones that are against shias?
You are 16 years old, and you don't even know how to classify hadith yourself, how could you can you disagree with shia beliefs if you believe the garbage propaganda that is spread through the blogs and youtube links you learn from. LEARN FROM REAL SOURCES, not from strangers on the internet.
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January 21, 2015, 02:35:33 AM
