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Taraweeh Is Bid'ah For Shia Because

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Hadrami

Taraweeh Is Bid'ah For Shia Because
« on: June 05, 2017, 11:03:09 PM »
a YT user joked that the real reason shia hate taraweeh is this. It would be a torture listening to their ayatola :D


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Re: Taraweeh Is Bid'ah For Shia Because
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2017, 04:36:38 AM »
Khurafaaat

 8)

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

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Re: Taraweeh Is Bid'ah For Shia Because
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2017, 04:14:28 PM »
Well it's a bid'ah because it was the creation of a man and not the way of the Prophet (s) nor his itra (as). To further strengthen this case, is the specific authentic narrations of the Imams (as) outlining it as such (i.e bid'ah).

This is similar to other Sunni bid'ahs related to prayer, such as men doing sadl or whatever you call it (probably taken from the majoos) or saying "ameen" after Fatiha (probably from the Christians or the Jews), amongst other things.

There is no doubt in my mind that the nasibis were obviously influenced by the disbelievers in both deviant aqa'id and false Fiqhi conclusions (along with qiyas).
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Taraweeh Is Bid'ah For Shia Because
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2017, 10:00:44 PM »
Well it's a bid'ah because it was the creation of a man and not the way of the Prophet (s)...
As proven from authentic ahadeeth Prophet(saws) prayed Taraweeh for 3 days in congregation. So this has an "asl"(origin). Hence taraweeh prayer cannot be called as bidah in a Shara'i sense. Umar(ra) called it a bidah in a lugvi(linguistic) sense.


Quote
This is similar to other Sunni bid'ahs related to prayer, such as men doing sadl or whatever you call it (probably taken from the majoos)
Lol, the practise of Shias, praying with open arms is called Sadl. Folding of arms is called Qabd. I was under the impression that you knew Arabic.

Praying Salah by folding hands is proven from Prophet(saws). Your ignorance based slander is directed on Prophet(saws).

It was narrated that Sahl ibn Sa’d said: the people used to be instructed to place the right hand over the left forearm when praying. (narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 740)

 It was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “We Prophets have been commanded to delay our suhoor and to break our fast straight away, and to place our right hands over our left hands when praying.” (narrated by Ibn Hibbaan in al-Saheeh, 3/13-14).

And are the Shia women who pray keeping their hands on chest following majoos too?


Quote
or saying "ameen" after Fatiha (probably from the Christians or the Jews), amongst other things.

Does the Christians and Jews have Surah Fatiha too?

If you mean saying Ameen after a dua, then even your Imams used to say Ameen after a dua. Just refer Sahifa Sajjadiya of Imam Zain al-Abideen, just see how many times he says Ameen after dua, following the Jews and Christians as per your claim.

And again your ignorance based slander is directed on Prophet(saws) and Ahl al-bayt.

Sunnah of Prophet Mohammad(SAWS) :

However, the fact is that the Prophetic Sunnah of saying Amin behind the Imam in prayer is authentically reported through several companions of Prophet Mohammad(SAWS).

(i). Wa’il bin Hujr narrated: “I heard the Prophet recite: (Not (the way) of those who earned Your anger, nor those who went astray) and he said: ‘Amin.’ And he stretched it out with his voice.”[ Jami` at-Tirmidhi #248 ; Grading: Sahih]

(ii). Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet (SAWS) said, “When the Imam says ‘Amin’, then you should all say ‘Amin’, for the angels say ‘Amin’ at that time, and he whose ‘Amin’ coincides with the ‘Amin’ of the angels, all his past sins will be forgiven.”[ Sahih al-Bukhari #6402]

The Ahl Al-Bayt said “Ameen” after Al-Fatiha:

(iii). It was narrated that ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib said: “I heard the Messenger of Allah (SAWS) saying ‘Amin’ after he said, ‘nor of those who went astray.’[1:7]. [Sunan Ibn Majah, Book 5, Hadith 903 ; Grading: Sahih]

(iv). Imam Ibn Kaṭhīr stated:

” آمّين البيت الحرام.”نقل أبو نصر القشيري عن الحسن وجعفر الصادق أنهما شددا الميم من ” آمين ” مثل : ( آمين البيت الحرام ) [ المائدة

Abū Naṣr Al-Qushairī narrated from Al-Ḥassan and Jaʿfar Al-Ṣādiq, that they used to stress the Mīm in “Āmīn”(Ameen), like: Āmmīnall-baytal-ḥarām. [Tafseer Ibn Katheer].

(v). Here is a pro-Ameen Shia narration from Shia book:

[ 7366 ] 5 ـ وعنه ، عن ابن أبي عمير ، عن جميل قال : سألت أبا عبد الله ( عليه السلام ) عن قول الناس في الصلاة جماعة حين يقرأ فاتحة الكتاب : آمـيـن ؟ قال : مـا أحـسـنـهـا واخفض الصوت بها.
التهذيب 2 : 75|277 , الاستبصار 1 : 318|1187 , وسائل الشيعة ج 6 ص 68
[7366] 5 – From ibn abi ‘Umayr from Jameel bin Darraj al-Nakh’ee: I asked abu ‘Abdullah (as) about the saying of the people during Salat after the Fatiha of the Book: Ameen? He (as) said: “How good it is when in a low voice.” [Source: al-Tahtheeb 2 : 75/277, al-Istibsar 1 : 318/1187, Wasael al-Shia 6/68.]

al-Khoei said this narration is SAHIH in al-Mustanad fi Sharh al-‘Urwah al-Wusta 5/514: “ربّما تعارض هذه النصوص بصحيحة اُخرى لجميل ظاهرة في الجواز”.


Quote
There is no doubt in my mind that the nasibis were obviously influenced by the disbelievers in both deviant aqa'id and false Fiqhi conclusions (along with qiyas).
i hope if not you then, atleast the readers will know who the true Nasibis are, and whose corrupt ideology and fiqh was influenced by hatred and bigotry towards Sunnah of Prophet(saws).
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 10:03:06 PM by Noor-us-Sunnah »

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

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Re: Taraweeh Is Bid'ah For Shia Because
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2017, 01:51:49 PM »
Well it's a bid'ah because it was the creation of a man and not the way of the Prophet (s)...
As proven from authentic ahadeeth Prophet(saws) prayed Taraweeh for 3 days in congregation. So this has an "asl"(origin). Hence taraweeh prayer cannot be called as bidah in a Shara'i sense. Umar(ra) called it a bidah in a lugvi(linguistic) sense.


Quote
This is similar to other Sunni bid'ahs related to prayer, such as men doing sadl or whatever you call it (probably taken from the majoos)
Lol, the practise of Shias, praying with open arms is called Sadl. Folding of arms is called Qabd. I was under the impression that you knew Arabic.

Praying Salah by folding hands is proven from Prophet(saws). Your ignorance based slander is directed on Prophet(saws).

It was narrated that Sahl ibn Sa’d said: the people used to be instructed to place the right hand over the left forearm when praying. (narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 740)

 It was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “We Prophets have been commanded to delay our suhoor and to break our fast straight away, and to place our right hands over our left hands when praying.” (narrated by Ibn Hibbaan in al-Saheeh, 3/13-14).

And are the Shia women who pray keeping their hands on chest following majoos too?


Quote
or saying "ameen" after Fatiha (probably from the Christians or the Jews), amongst other things.

Does the Christians and Jews have Surah Fatiha too?

If you mean saying Ameen after a dua, then even your Imams used to say Ameen after a dua. Just refer Sahifa Sajjadiya of Imam Zain al-Abideen, just see how many times he says Ameen after dua, following the Jews and Christians as per your claim.

And again your ignorance based slander is directed on Prophet(saws) and Ahl al-bayt.

Sunnah of Prophet Mohammad(SAWS) :

However, the fact is that the Prophetic Sunnah of saying Amin behind the Imam in prayer is authentically reported through several companions of Prophet Mohammad(SAWS).

(i). Wa’il bin Hujr narrated: “I heard the Prophet recite: (Not (the way) of those who earned Your anger, nor those who went astray) and he said: ‘Amin.’ And he stretched it out with his voice.”[ Jami` at-Tirmidhi #248 ; Grading: Sahih]

(ii). Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet (SAWS) said, “When the Imam says ‘Amin’, then you should all say ‘Amin’, for the angels say ‘Amin’ at that time, and he whose ‘Amin’ coincides with the ‘Amin’ of the angels, all his past sins will be forgiven.”[ Sahih al-Bukhari #6402]

The Ahl Al-Bayt said “Ameen” after Al-Fatiha:

(iii). It was narrated that ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib said: “I heard the Messenger of Allah (SAWS) saying ‘Amin’ after he said, ‘nor of those who went astray.’[1:7]. [Sunan Ibn Majah, Book 5, Hadith 903 ; Grading: Sahih]

(iv). Imam Ibn Kaṭhīr stated:

” آمّين البيت الحرام.”نقل أبو نصر القشيري عن الحسن وجعفر الصادق أنهما شددا الميم من ” آمين ” مثل : ( آمين البيت الحرام ) [ المائدة

Abū Naṣr Al-Qushairī narrated from Al-Ḥassan and Jaʿfar Al-Ṣādiq, that they used to stress the Mīm in “Āmīn”(Ameen), like: Āmmīnall-baytal-ḥarām. [Tafseer Ibn Katheer].

(v). Here is a pro-Ameen Shia narration from Shia book:

[ 7366 ] 5 ـ وعنه ، عن ابن أبي عمير ، عن جميل قال : سألت أبا عبد الله ( عليه السلام ) عن قول الناس في الصلاة جماعة حين يقرأ فاتحة الكتاب : آمـيـن ؟ قال : مـا أحـسـنـهـا واخفض الصوت بها.
التهذيب 2 : 75|277 , الاستبصار 1 : 318|1187 , وسائل الشيعة ج 6 ص 68
[7366] 5 – From ibn abi ‘Umayr from Jameel bin Darraj al-Nakh’ee: I asked abu ‘Abdullah (as) about the saying of the people during Salat after the Fatiha of the Book: Ameen? He (as) said: “How good it is when in a low voice.” [Source: al-Tahtheeb 2 : 75/277, al-Istibsar 1 : 318/1187, Wasael al-Shia 6/68.]

al-Khoei said this narration is SAHIH in al-Mustanad fi Sharh al-‘Urwah al-Wusta 5/514: “ربّما تعارض هذه النصوص بصحيحة اُخرى لجميل ظاهرة في الجواز”.


Quote
There is no doubt in my mind that the nasibis were obviously influenced by the disbelievers in both deviant aqa'id and false Fiqhi conclusions (along with qiyas).
i hope if not you then, atleast the readers will know who the true Nasibis are, and whose corrupt ideology and fiqh was influenced by hatred and bigotry towards Sunnah of Prophet(saws).

I think you became confused by my comment. I was stating out the Shi'i belief regarding taraweeh, not arguing against the Sunni proof for its legitimacy.

We believe the Prophet (s) said this is a bid'ah. Therefore if the Prophet (s) nor his Ahlulbayt (s) gave it legitimacy, then it was made by a man. You may have hadiths which say otherwise, that's good for you, but I'm not here to argue against that.

I apologise for the mistake in Arabic, that is inexcusable from my part. Yes, I meanr qabdh. And once again, you have your hadiths. I will follow what the Imams (as) have told me regarding this, and as for Shi'i women - this is qiyas. If you read my previous post, I clearly said the word "men". So just because Shi'i women can pray like this, that doesn't mean it is halal for men to do so, nor does it negate the probability that this action was incorporated due to influence from the majoos.

Saying ameen after Du'a is proven, there is no harm in that. However, after Fatiha, is a bid'ah. As for the Shi'i narration which you showed, the fuqaha have dealt with it.
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Taraweeh Is Bid'ah For Shia Because
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2017, 09:55:54 AM »

 I was stating out the Shi'i belief regarding taraweeh....

We believe the Prophet (s) said this is a bid'ah. Therefore if the Prophet (s) nor his Ahlulbayt (s) gave it legitimacy, then it was made by a man.
You must refer this article, which contains Shia ahadeeth as well, proving that taraweeh was prayed by Prophet(saws) , and weakening the opposing Shia ahadeeth. Thus,  invalidating the allegation of it being man-made.
https://shiascans.com/2017/05/22/tarawih-proven-from-shia-books/


Quote
I apologise for the mistake in Arabic, that is inexcusable from my part. Yes, I meanr qabdh. And once again, you have your hadiths. I will follow what the Imams (as) have told me regarding this, and as for Shi'i women - this is qiyas. If you read my previous post, I clearly said the word "men". So just because Shi'i women can pray like this, that doesn't mean it is halal for men to do so, nor does it negate the probability that this action was incorporated due to influence from the majoos.
The practise of Shia women weakens the allegation because you'll have to prove that the Majoosi women pray by keeping their hands on their side, in contrary to which Shia women pray by keeping their hands on chest. Otherwise, they would come under the allegation of getting influenced from majoos, as well.



Quote
As for the Shi'i narration which you showed, the fuqaha have dealt with it.
Nevertheless, it neutralizes that accusation of it being taken from Christians or Jews.

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

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Re: Taraweeh Is Bid'ah For Shia Because
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2017, 05:29:39 AM »

 I was stating out the Shi'i belief regarding taraweeh....

We believe the Prophet (s) said this is a bid'ah. Therefore if the Prophet (s) nor his Ahlulbayt (s) gave it legitimacy, then it was made by a man.
You must refer this article, which contains Shia ahadeeth as well, proving that taraweeh was prayed by Prophet(saws) , and weakening the opposing Shia ahadeeth. Thus,  invalidating the allegation of it being man-made.
https://shiascans.com/2017/05/22/tarawih-proven-from-shia-books/


Quote
I apologise for the mistake in Arabic, that is inexcusable from my part. Yes, I meanr qabdh. And once again, you have your hadiths. I will follow what the Imams (as) have told me regarding this, and as for Shi'i women - this is qiyas. If you read my previous post, I clearly said the word "men". So just because Shi'i women can pray like this, that doesn't mean it is halal for men to do so, nor does it negate the probability that this action was incorporated due to influence from the majoos.
The practise of Shia women weakens the allegation because you'll have to prove that the Majoosi women pray by keeping their hands on their side, in contrary to which Shia women pray by keeping their hands on chest. Otherwise, they would come under the allegation of getting influenced from majoos, as well.



Quote
As for the Shi'i narration which you showed, the fuqaha have dealt with it.
Nevertheless, it neutralizes that accusation of it being taken from Christians or Jews.

I would like to know how this chain is weak:
الحسين بن سعيد عن حماد بن عيسى عن حريز عن زرارة وابن مسلم والفضيل


As for majoosi women, it doesn't matter how they prayed, because this is not my point. You seem to be focused on one thing, the shape of the prayer. While I am focused on something else, this is a bid'ah which came after the Prophet's death, so either someone made it up or was influenced by the kuffar to make this bid'ah. I say: someone liked the way a certain people prayed and told people to pray like that. Whether the females prayed like that or not doesn't matter, because they are a seperate and specific case.

No it does not neutralize it....
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Taraweeh Is Bid'ah For Shia Because
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2017, 02:01:08 AM »
I would like to know how this chain is weak:
الحسين بن سعيد عن حماد بن عيسى عن حريز عن زرارة وابن مسلم والفضيل
Looks like the brother who wrote that article made a mistake in the grading.


Quote
As for majoosi women, it doesn't matter how they prayed, because this is not my point. You seem to be focused on one thing, the shape of the prayer. While I am focused on something else, this is a bid'ah which came after the Prophet's death, so either someone made it up or was influenced by the kuffar to make this bid'ah. I say: someone liked the way a certain people prayed and told people to pray like that. Whether the females prayed like that or not doesn't matter, because they are a seperate and specific case.
We have different perspectives over these issues, and if you want to reach to a conclusion based on Shiee narrative then, that's your perspective. As for Sunnis, then as per Sunni narrative, it was Prophet(SAWS) who prayed the Qabd style, hence people who follow Sunnah of Prophet(saws), i.e Ahlus-sunnah, tend to pray in this manner, and as per my perspective.


Quote
No it does not neutralize it....
In my perspective, it does.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Taraweeh Is Bid'ah For Shia Because
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2017, 02:19:29 AM »
What is ironic is that on one hand like a typical reactionary sect Shias attributed reports to Ahl-albayt condemning Qabd and comparing it with practise of Majoos, but on the other hand they adopted the Eid of Majoos, they celebrate it with great joy, and have even attributed some reports to Ahl-albayt.

Hadrami

Re: Taraweeh Is Bid'ah For Shia Because
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2017, 06:30:12 AM »
What is ironic is that on one hand like a typical reactionary sect Shias attributed reports to Ahl-albayt condemning Qabd and comparing it with practise of Majoos, but on the other hand they adopted the Eid of Majoos, they celebrate it with great joy, and have even attributed some reports to Ahl-albayt.

Shia said we pray like jews while they celebrate like majoos. Shia said companions are cowards while their imam hiding scared for his life even before facing the enemy etc.

I love watching shia shooting themselves in the foot 😂

Ebn Hussein

Re: Taraweeh Is Bid'ah For Shia Because
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2017, 11:13:31 PM »
. I say: someone liked the way a certain people prayed and told people to pray like that.

Probably ... perhaps ... maybe ... and now "I say". That's fine, would you be so kind and prove from a sahih source from your books that someone (your scholars claim Omar) liked it and introduced it into the prayer. Just for the record, I know it's not Hujjah for nobody but Twelvers.
الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

 

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