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Verse 33:33 - Gender change from feminine to masculine

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Hani

Re: Verse 33:33 - Gender change from feminine to masculine
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2016, 04:21:00 AM »
Witness how he's jumping to another topic.

Let me answer you, the Prophet (saw) said according to the narrations, what he leaves is to be given in charity except the provisions of his wives and payment to his workers, then he said "My family may eat from this land."

So his family is not eating from charity that's offered to them by other people, they are eating from what The Prophet's (saw) land produced. If the Prophet (saw) gave al-Hasan a tomato, can al-Hasan eat it or not? Of course he can, that's not charity. So the Prophet (saw) left a piece of land, he told them whatever this produces goes to charity but a portion is reserved to my family if they need it. That my friend is not counted as them eating from charity.

As for who gets to control these lands, Banu Hashim believed they should be in control, Abu Bakr believed the lands should remain under the control of the leader who succeeds the Prophet (saw). This leader may place any Hashemite in charge if he pleases but the Hashemite doesn't really own the land. I agree with Abu Bakr.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Qalander Rafidhi

Re: Verse 33:33 - Gender change from feminine to masculine
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2016, 07:10:58 AM »
In no hadith has Abu Bakr said that " Prophet said that my family can eat from it as well." Abu Bakr himself made that claim that they can eat from it as well if they wish to do so.

Secondly, when he said in the hadith " Whatever we leave is to be given in charity " doesn't that mean that it has become charity by default since the prophet (sawa) has passed and no longer gets to decide that they may eat from it ?

Do you have any ahadith regarding the endowments of the prophet (sawa) being left with Abu Bakr or that the " leader " gets to decide what happens to his land since it wasn't under anyone's control other than Prophet Muhammad (sawa) himself when he was alive ? Did he ever point to anyone who would take care of his matters after him ?

No one is trying to change subjects or jumping here and there. These questions arise when you give people hallway answers and expect them to believe it.

Not your average, Shia lol.
Ya Ali (as) Madad

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Verse 33:33 - Gender change from feminine to masculine
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2016, 10:54:59 AM »
Argument 35:

Shiapen stated:
Quote
The fact that Sadaqa is haraam on Banu Hashim is proof that the Hadeeth ‘Our property will not be inherited, whatever we leave is Sadaqah’ is false

To understand this argument one needs to analyse the significance of Abu Bakr’s words as set out in Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 57, Number 60 reads as follows:

Narrated ‘Aisha:
Fatima sent somebody to Abu Bakr asking him to give her inheritance from the Prophet from what Allah had given to His Apostle through Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting). She asked for the Sadaqa (i.e. wealth assigned for charitable purposes) of the Prophetat Medina, and Fadak, and what remained of the Khumus (i.e., one-fifth) of the Khaibar booty. Abu Bakr said, “Allah’s Apostle said,’We (Prophets), our property is not inherited, and whatever we leave is Sadaqa, but Muhammad’s Family can eat from this property, i.e.Allah’s property, but they have no right to take more than the food they need.

Abu Bakr is claiming that all the Prophet (s) left converts into Sadaqa, and the Ahl’ul bayt (as) are entitled to get their share of this Sadaqa. How can this Hadeeth be Saheeh when Sadaqa is haraam on the family of Maula ‘Ali (as)?

If the Shias read the same hadeeth with proper understanding then they will get the answer for this question. It wasn’t Abubakr(ra) who invented the view as the Shia are claiming, rather it was the command of the Prophet(Saw), which Abubakr(ra) quoted. So it was Prophet(Saw) who allowed his family to take sustenance from that property. This will be clear by reading another hadeeth, where Ayesha(ra) clarifies the same thing.

Urwa narrated that Ayesha(ra) said: Prophet used to say: Our property is not inherited, but whatever we leave is to be given in charity(sadaqa)? The Prophet mentioned that regarding himself. He added: ‘The family of Muhammad can take their sustenance from this property. (Sahi bukhari 5.367)

So the correct understanding of hadeeth is that, Property is left by Prophet(saw) is to be given in charity but sustenance of prophet’s family is exempted from being given in charity(sadaqa) or to be considered sadaqa..

Moreover, Sadaqah is a word used to describe many things, this land was referred to as Sadaqah but it is technically a Waqf, the man who sets up the land as Waqf is the one to decide who it is for, he can either make it for all Muslims, or just for certain families like how Fatimah made her property a Waqf only for bani Hashim and bani `Abdul-Muttalib, `Ali on the other hand made some of his property as Waqf for all Muslims.

Imam al-Baqillani writes in “Manaqib al-A’immah” chapter thirty six page 609:

[What he left behind from money of Fay’ is called “Sadaqah” in here  meaning a gift from Allah to the Muslims and a Rukhsah(dispensation) for them to take from it what they require to prepare for war (…until he said…) and Rasul-Allah (saw) called the Rukhsah a Sadaqah such as when he said concerning the verse {There is no blame upon you for shortening the prayer, [especially] if you fear that those who disbelieve may disrupt [or attack] you.} He (saw) said: “It is a Sadaqah given to you by Allah so accept his Sadaqah.” meaning a gift and a Rukhsah and a blessing from Allah. Also Allah says: {Give us full measure and be charitable(Tasaddaq) to us. Indeed, Allah rewards the charitable.} The word used is Tasaddaq from Sadaqah and what is meant is gift us and bless us.]

If the Prophet (saw) gave his family food and provisions from the land of  Fay’ or what was later known as the Sadaqat of Rasul-Allah (saw),  this doesn’t mean they’re eating from the money of Sadaqah, rather this is a right given by Allah to his Prophet (saw), that he can benefit from this land as long as he is alive and feed his family, and even after him, so what they received from it is not a part of the Sadaqah, it is a right given to the Prophet (saw).

Therefore, the sustenance of Prophet’s(saw) family is not charity(sadaqa) and Abubakr(ra) didn’t violate the sunnah but rather he affirmed the Sunnah and the commands of Prophet(saw).

Taken from
https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2014/09/11/8-sunni-answers-to-shiapens-article-on-fadak-and-inheritance-of-prophetsaw-chapter-eight/

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Verse 33:33 - Gender change from feminine to masculine
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2016, 10:58:51 AM »

Do you have any ahadith regarding the endowments of the prophet (sawa) being left with Abu Bakr or that the " leader " gets to decide what happens to his land since it wasn't under anyone's control other than Prophet Muhammad (sawa) himself when he was alive ? Did he ever point to anyone who would take care of his matters after him ?

Do you mean reports like these?

Quote
(1). Property of the Prophet(saw), after him belongs to the leader after him.

Sunni Hadeeth:

We read in “Ithaf al-Khayarah al-Maharah” by al-Bouwaysiri, that
وَقَالَ أَبُو يَعْلَى الْمُوصِلِيُّ حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ صَالِحٍ ، حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ فُضَيْلٍ ، عَنِ الْوَلِيدِ بْنِ جُمَيْعٍ ، عَنْ أَبِي الطُّفَيْلِ ، قَالَ : جَاءَتْ فَاطِمَةُ إِلَى أَبِي بَكْرٍ ، فَقَالَتْ : يَا خَلِيفَةَ رَسُولِ الله صَلَّى الله عَلَيه وسَلَّم ، أَنْتَ وَرِثت رَسُولِ الله أَمْ أَهْلُهُ ؟ قَالَ : بَلْ أَهْلُهُ قَالَتْ : فَمَا بَالُ سَهْمِ رَسُولِ الله صَلَّى الله عَلَيه وسَلَّم ؟ قَالَ : إِنِّي سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ الله صَلَّى الله عَلَيه وسَلَّم ، يَقُولُ : إِذَا أَطْعَمَ الله , عَزَّ وَجَلَّ , نَبِيًّا طُعْمَةً ، ثُمَّ قَبَضَهُ جَعَلَهُ لِلَّذِي يَقُومُ بَعْدَهُ فَرَأَيْتُ أَنْ أَرُدَّهُ عَلَى الْمِسْلِمِينَ ، فَقَالَتْ : أَنْتَ وَرَسُولُ الله أَعْلَمُ.
Abu Ya`la al-Mousili said: `Abdul-Rahman bin Salih said: Muhammad bin Fudayl said, from al-Walid bin Jumay` (bin `Abdullah), from abi al-Tufayl that he said: Fatima came to Abu Bakr and said: “O successor of Rassul-Allah (SAWS), did you inherit the messenger of Allah or his family?” He said: “His family.” She asked: “Then what of the share of the messenger (SAWS)?” He replied: “I heard the messenger of Allah (SAWS) say: “If Allah the majestic and great gave a prophet a blessing then took his soul, it becomes for the one who took his place after him.” So I decided that I should distribute it among the Muslims.” Fatima told him: “You and the messenger of Allah know best.”

Shia Hadeeth:

Similarly, In Al-Kafi we read:

علي بن إبراهيه، عن أبيه، عن ابن أبي عنير، عن حفص بن البختري، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلاو قال:

الأىفال ما له يوجف عليه بخيل ولا ركاب، أو قوو صالحوا، أو قوو أعطوا بأيديهه، وكل أرض خربة

وبطون الأودية فهو لرسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وهو للاماو من بعده يضعه حيث يشاء

Abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) said:”Al-Anfal is such property for the acquisition of which no camels or horses are use and no armed expeditions are undertaken. It is the property that may come as a result of negotiated settlement or certain people would give with their own hands, may come from a barren land or from inside the valleys. Such properties belong to the Messenger of Allah and it will belong to the Imam(leader) after the the Messenger of Allah. The Imam(leader) will spend them as he may consider proper.”(Al Kafi, Chapter The Fay’, al-Anfal, al-Khums, its rules and the properties subject to al-Khums, page 186).[Majlisi in Mirat al Uqul vol 6, page 255 graded it as Hasan(good)]

Esteemed Shia scholar Al-Kulayni(author of Al-Kafi) who is considered Thiqatul Islam by Shias, said:

وأما الانفال فليس هذه سبيلها كان للرسول عليه السلام خاصة وكانت فدك لرسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله خاصة، لانه صلى الله عليه وآله فتحها وأمير المؤمنين عليه السلام، لم يكن معهما أحد فزال عنها اسم الفئ ولزمها اسم الانفال وكذلك الآجام(2) والمعادن والبحار والمفاوز هي للامام خاصة

The case of al-Anfal is different. It belongs to the Messenger only. Of such properties was Fadak that belonged to the Messenger of Allah only. It is because he and Amir al-Mu’minin (a.s.) conquered it and there no one else took part. The name al-Fay’ therefore does not apply to it. Al-Anfal applies to it. Similar to al-Anfal are such properties as the marshes, mines, oceans and the wilderness. They all belong to Imam(leader) exclusively.(Al-Kafi, Chapter 130, The Fay’, al-Anfal, al-Khums, its rules and the properties subject to al-Khums).

Comment: Thus from Sunni and Shia hadeeth we find that after Prophet(saw) the property given to Prophet, will belong to the successor of Prophet, the leader of Muslims. Since Abubakr(ra) became the Imam(Leader) after Prophet(saw), the property that was granted by Allah to Prophet(saw), became the property of the Leader(i.e Abubakr). And it was upon Abubakr(ra) to manage it in the best possible charitable activities.

Note: Shia scholar Sayyid Sa’eed Akhtar Rizvi states in his book: [Imamate, The Vicegerency of the Prophet] :

[The word Al-Khilafah means ‘to succeed’ and al-khalifah means ‘the successor’. In Islamic terminology al-khilafah and al-khalifah practically signify the same meanings as al-ima’mah and al-ima’m repectively.]
Taken from
https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2014/09/11/1-sunni-answers-to-shiapens-article-on-fadak-and-inheritance-of-prophetsaw-chapter-one/

Qalander Rafidhi

Re: Verse 33:33 - Gender change from feminine to masculine
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2016, 11:41:18 AM »

Do you have any ahadith regarding the endowments of the prophet (sawa) being left with Abu Bakr or that the " leader " gets to decide what happens to his land since it wasn't under anyone's control other than Prophet Muhammad (sawa) himself when he was alive ? Did he ever point to anyone who would take care of his matters after him ?

Do you mean reports like these?

Quote
(1). Property of the Prophet(saw), after him belongs to the leader after him.

Sunni Hadeeth:

We read in “Ithaf al-Khayarah al-Maharah” by al-Bouwaysiri, that
وَقَالَ أَبُو يَعْلَى الْمُوصِلِيُّ حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ صَالِحٍ ، حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ فُضَيْلٍ ، عَنِ الْوَلِيدِ بْنِ جُمَيْعٍ ، عَنْ أَبِي الطُّفَيْلِ ، قَالَ : جَاءَتْ فَاطِمَةُ إِلَى أَبِي بَكْرٍ ، فَقَالَتْ : يَا خَلِيفَةَ رَسُولِ الله صَلَّى الله عَلَيه وسَلَّم ، أَنْتَ وَرِثت رَسُولِ الله أَمْ أَهْلُهُ ؟ قَالَ : بَلْ أَهْلُهُ قَالَتْ : فَمَا بَالُ سَهْمِ رَسُولِ الله صَلَّى الله عَلَيه وسَلَّم ؟ قَالَ : إِنِّي سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ الله صَلَّى الله عَلَيه وسَلَّم ، يَقُولُ : إِذَا أَطْعَمَ الله , عَزَّ وَجَلَّ , نَبِيًّا طُعْمَةً ، ثُمَّ قَبَضَهُ جَعَلَهُ لِلَّذِي يَقُومُ بَعْدَهُ فَرَأَيْتُ أَنْ أَرُدَّهُ عَلَى الْمِسْلِمِينَ ، فَقَالَتْ : أَنْتَ وَرَسُولُ الله أَعْلَمُ.
Abu Ya`la al-Mousili said: `Abdul-Rahman bin Salih said: Muhammad bin Fudayl said, from al-Walid bin Jumay` (bin `Abdullah), from abi al-Tufayl that he said: Fatima came to Abu Bakr and said: “O successor of Rassul-Allah (SAWS), did you inherit the messenger of Allah or his family?” He said: “His family.” She asked: “Then what of the share of the messenger (SAWS)?” He replied: “I heard the messenger of Allah (SAWS) say: “If Allah the majestic and great gave a prophet a blessing then took his soul, it becomes for the one who took his place after him.” So I decided that I should distribute it among the Muslims.” Fatima told him: “You and the messenger of Allah know best.”

Shia Hadeeth:

Similarly, In Al-Kafi we read:

علي بن إبراهيه، عن أبيه، عن ابن أبي عنير، عن حفص بن البختري، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلاو قال:

الأىفال ما له يوجف عليه بخيل ولا ركاب، أو قوو صالحوا، أو قوو أعطوا بأيديهه، وكل أرض خربة

وبطون الأودية فهو لرسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وهو للاماو من بعده يضعه حيث يشاء

Abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) said:”Al-Anfal is such property for the acquisition of which no camels or horses are use and no armed expeditions are undertaken. It is the property that may come as a result of negotiated settlement or certain people would give with their own hands, may come from a barren land or from inside the valleys. Such properties belong to the Messenger of Allah and it will belong to the Imam(leader) after the the Messenger of Allah. The Imam(leader) will spend them as he may consider proper.”(Al Kafi, Chapter The Fay’, al-Anfal, al-Khums, its rules and the properties subject to al-Khums, page 186).[Majlisi in Mirat al Uqul vol 6, page 255 graded it as Hasan(good)]

Esteemed Shia scholar Al-Kulayni(author of Al-Kafi) who is considered Thiqatul Islam by Shias, said:

وأما الانفال فليس هذه سبيلها كان للرسول عليه السلام خاصة وكانت فدك لرسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله خاصة، لانه صلى الله عليه وآله فتحها وأمير المؤمنين عليه السلام، لم يكن معهما أحد فزال عنها اسم الفئ ولزمها اسم الانفال وكذلك الآجام(2) والمعادن والبحار والمفاوز هي للامام خاصة

The case of al-Anfal is different. It belongs to the Messenger only. Of such properties was Fadak that belonged to the Messenger of Allah only. It is because he and Amir al-Mu’minin (a.s.) conquered it and there no one else took part. The name al-Fay’ therefore does not apply to it. Al-Anfal applies to it. Similar to al-Anfal are such properties as the marshes, mines, oceans and the wilderness. They all belong to Imam(leader) exclusively.(Al-Kafi, Chapter 130, The Fay’, al-Anfal, al-Khums, its rules and the properties subject to al-Khums).

Comment: Thus from Sunni and Shia hadeeth we find that after Prophet(saw) the property given to Prophet, will belong to the successor of Prophet, the leader of Muslims. Since Abubakr(ra) became the Imam(Leader) after Prophet(saw), the property that was granted by Allah to Prophet(saw), became the property of the Leader(i.e Abubakr). And it was upon Abubakr(ra) to manage it in the best possible charitable activities.

Note: Shia scholar Sayyid Sa’eed Akhtar Rizvi states in his book: [Imamate, The Vicegerency of the Prophet] :

[The word Al-Khilafah means ‘to succeed’ and al-khalifah means ‘the successor’. In Islamic terminology al-khilafah and al-khalifah practically signify the same meanings as al-ima’mah and al-ima’m repectively.]
Taken from
https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2014/09/11/1-sunni-answers-to-shiapens-article-on-fadak-and-inheritance-of-prophetsaw-chapter-one/

Two things, brother. The first being the sunni hadith you provided were Bibi Fatima (sa) supposedly agreed with Abu Bakr is false and you know it as well. I present to you just one hadith where this conversation between Abu Bakr and Bibi Fatima (sa) didn't go as the abovementioned hadith depicts;

Volume 4, Book 53, Number 325:
Narrated 'Aisha:

(mother of the believers) After the death of Allah 's Apostle Fatima the daughter of Allah's Apostle asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give her, her share of inheritance from what Allah's Apostle had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqa (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Apostle.

She used to ask Abu Bakr for her share from the property of Allah's Apostle which he left at Khaibar, and Fadak, and his property at Medina (devoted for charity). Abu Bakr refused to give her that property and said, "I will not leave anything Allah's Apostle used to do, because I am afraid that if I left something from the Prophet's tradition, then I would go astray." (Later on) Umar gave the Prophet's property (of Sadaqa) at Medina to 'Ali and 'Abbas, but he withheld the properties of Khaibar and Fadak in his custody and said, "These two properties are the Sadaqa which Allah's Apostle used to use for his expenditures and urgent needs. Now their management is to be entrusted to the ruler." (Az-Zuhrl said, "They have been managed in this way till today.")

Second; You should know that by now that Shia books have never considered them to be Imams and they have always been refered to as " Shaykhain " never Imams in any Shia books. And, as far as the maintainance and upkeep of the land being trusted to an Imam would referer to the 12 Imams the first of the being Ali (as). Also, the hadith I provided from Bukhari clearly states that Umar gave away some property(which was also sadaqa ) to Ali (as) and Abbas but he kept the the one from Khayber and Fadak which according to the Shia narration Ali (as) had more right to. Now, which one of these do you accept:
A- They were all sadaqa and should've been dealt with in the manner that Prophet Muhammad (sawa) asked them to ( Supposedly ).

B- Umar went astray by going against what Abu Bakr said about using it for charity and giving it away to a person who is not supposed to eat from charity at all ?

Ya Ali (as) Madad

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Verse 33:33 - Gender change from feminine to masculine
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2016, 12:01:56 PM »
Two things, brother. The first being the sunni hadith you provided were Bibi Fatima (sa) supposedly agreed with Abu Bakr is false and you know it as well. I present to you just one hadith where this conversation between Abu Bakr and Bibi Fatima (sa) didn't go as the abovementioned hadith depicts;

Volume 4, Book 53, Number 325:
Narrated 'Aisha:

(mother of the believers) After the death of Allah 's Apostle Fatima the daughter of Allah's Apostle asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give her, her share of inheritance from what Allah's Apostle had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqa (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Apostle.

She used to ask Abu Bakr for her share from the property of Allah's Apostle which he left at Khaibar, and Fadak, and his property at Medina (devoted for charity). Abu Bakr refused to give her that property and said, "I will not leave anything Allah's Apostle used to do, because I am afraid that if I left something from the Prophet's tradition, then I would go astray." (Later on) Umar gave the Prophet's property (of Sadaqa) at Medina to 'Ali and 'Abbas, but he withheld the properties of Khaibar and Fadak in his custody and said, "These two properties are the Sadaqa which Allah's Apostle used to use for his expenditures and urgent needs. Now their management is to be entrusted to the ruler." (Az-Zuhrl said, "They have been managed in this way till today.")
It is not false, brother. It is an authentic Shia hadeeth.  We have solid academic answers for these doubts of yours. Refer to the answers of Argument 23 , Argument 24 and Argument 25 in this article:
https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2014/09/11/10-sunni-answers-to-shiapens-article-on-fadak-and-inheritance-of-prophetsaw-chapter-ten/

Quote
Second; You should know that by now that Shia books have never considered them to be Imams and they have always been refered to as " Shaykhain " never Imams in any Shia books. And, as far as the maintainance and upkeep of the land being trusted to an Imam would referer to the 12 Imams the first of the being Ali (as).
Brother, what you failed to realize is that, Fadak, was not inherited by Fatima(RA). As per your own authentic SHia hadeeth and as per your great Kulayni. So from where did you built the hoax of, Fadak belonging to Fatima(RA) whiich Abu bakr usurped?  And yes the Shia hadeeth uses the word Imam which is synonym of Caliph, as per admission of your own Scholar. And since Abubakr was chosen as the Imam/Caliph of the Muslims[Muhajireen and Ansar], hence he had the right to deal with those properties. Whether you agree or disagree.

Quote
Also, the hadith I provided from Bukhari clearly states that Umar gave away some property(which was also sadaqa ) to Ali (as) and Abbas but he kept the the one from Khayber and Fadak which according to the Shia narration Ali (as) had more right to. Now, which one of these do you accept:
A- They were all sadaqa and should've been dealt with in the manner that Prophet Muhammad (sawa) asked them to ( Supposedly ).

B- Umar went astray by going against what Abu Bakr said about using it for charity and giving it away to a person who is not supposed to eat from charity at all ?
No, Umar(RA) didn't go astray because Umar(RA) didn't make Ali(RA) or Abbas(RA) owners of that property, rather he made them, guardians or Trustees of that. And the Imam/Caliph has the right to deal them as he likes,  So he has the right to make Guardian whom he wishes.  For details refer to the answers of Argument 6, Argument 7 and Argument 8 in this article:
https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2014/09/11/8-sunni-answers-to-shiapens-article-on-fadak-and-inheritance-of-prophetsaw-chapter-eight/

Qalander Rafidhi

Re: Verse 33:33 - Gender change from feminine to masculine
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2016, 01:23:50 PM »
Two things, brother. The first being the sunni hadith you provided were Bibi Fatima (sa) supposedly agreed with Abu Bakr is false and you know it as well. I present to you just one hadith where this conversation between Abu Bakr and Bibi Fatima (sa) didn't go as the abovementioned hadith depicts;

Volume 4, Book 53, Number 325:
Narrated 'Aisha:

(mother of the believers) After the death of Allah 's Apostle Fatima the daughter of Allah's Apostle asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give her, her share of inheritance from what Allah's Apostle had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqa (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Apostle.

She used to ask Abu Bakr for her share from the property of Allah's Apostle which he left at Khaibar, and Fadak, and his property at Medina (devoted for charity). Abu Bakr refused to give her that property and said, "I will not leave anything Allah's Apostle used to do, because I am afraid that if I left something from the Prophet's tradition, then I would go astray." (Later on) Umar gave the Prophet's property (of Sadaqa) at Medina to 'Ali and 'Abbas, but he withheld the properties of Khaibar and Fadak in his custody and said, "These two properties are the Sadaqa which Allah's Apostle used to use for his expenditures and urgent needs. Now their management is to be entrusted to the ruler." (Az-Zuhrl said, "They have been managed in this way till today.")
It is not false, brother. It is an authentic Shia hadeeth.  We have solid academic answers for these doubts of yours. Refer to the answers of Argument 23 , Argument 24 and Argument 25 in this article:
https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2014/09/11/10-sunni-answers-to-shiapens-article-on-fadak-and-inheritance-of-prophetsaw-chapter-ten/

Quote
Second; You should know that by now that Shia books have never considered them to be Imams and they have always been refered to as " Shaykhain " never Imams in any Shia books. And, as far as the maintainance and upkeep of the land being trusted to an Imam would referer to the 12 Imams the first of the being Ali (as).
Brother, what you failed to realize is that, Fadak, was not inherited by Fatima(RA). As per your own authentic SHia hadeeth and as per your great Kulayni. So from where did you built the hoax of, Fadak belonging to Fatima(RA) whiich Abu bakr usurped?  And yes the Shia hadeeth uses the word Imam which is synonym of Caliph, as per admission of your own Scholar. And since Abubakr was chosen as the Imam/Caliph of the Muslims[Muhajireen and Ansar], hence he had the right to deal with those properties. Whether you agree or disagree.

Quote
Also, the hadith I provided from Bukhari clearly states that Umar gave away some property(which was also sadaqa ) to Ali (as) and Abbas but he kept the the one from Khayber and Fadak which according to the Shia narration Ali (as) had more right to. Now, which one of these do you accept:
A- They were all sadaqa and should've been dealt with in the manner that Prophet Muhammad (sawa) asked them to ( Supposedly ).

B- Umar went astray by going against what Abu Bakr said about using it for charity and giving it away to a person who is not supposed to eat from charity at all ?
No, Umar(RA) didn't go astray because Umar(RA) didn't make Ali(RA) or Abbas(RA) owners of that property, rather he made them, guardians or Trustees of that. And the Imam/Caliph has the right to deal them as he likes,  So he has the right to make Guardian whom he wishes.  For details refer to the answers of Argument 6, Argument 7 and Argument 8 in this article:
https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2014/09/11/8-sunni-answers-to-shiapens-article-on-fadak-and-inheritance-of-prophetsaw-chapter-eight/

Here's the thing; It is well established that Abu Bakr said that " We Prophets don't inherit. " Even though they've made a claim where Ali (as) supposedly accepted the saying of abu bakr regarding prophets don't inherit, I present to you this hadith:
It is reported by Zuhri that this tradition was narrated to him by Malik b. Aus who said:
Umar b. al-Khattab sent for me and I came to him when the day had advanced. I found him in his house sitting on his bare bed-stead, reclining on a leather pillow. He said (to me): Malik, some people of your tribe have hastened to me (with a request for help). I have ordered a little money for them. Take it and distribute it among them. I said: I wish you had ordered somebody else to do this job. He said: Malik, take it (and do what you have been told). At this moment (his man-servant) Yarfa' came in and said: Commander of the Faithful, what do you say about Uthman, Abd al-Rabman b. 'Auf, Zubair and Sa'd (who have come to seek an audience with you)? He said: Yes, and permitted them. so they entered. Then he (Yarfa') came again and said: What do you say about 'Ali and Abbas (who are present at the door)? He said: Yes, and permitted them to enter. Abbas said: Commander of the Faithful, decide (the dispute) between me and this sinful, treacherous, dishonest liar. The people (who were present) also said: Yes. Commander of the Faithful, do decide (the dispute) and have mercy on them. Malik b. Aus said: I could well imagine that they had sent them in advance for this purpose (by 'Ali and Abbas). 'Umar said: Wait and be patient. I adjure you by Allah by Whose order the heavens and the earth are sustained, don't you know that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:" We (prophets) do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity"? They said: Yes. Then he turned to Abbas and 'Ali and said: I adjure you both by Allah by Whose order the heavens and earth are sustained, don't you know that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:" We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity"? They (too) said: Yes. (Then) Umar said: Allah, the Glorious and Exalted, had done to His Messenger (ﷺ) a special favour that He has not done to anyone else except him. He quoted the Qur'anic verse:" What Allah has bestowed upon His Apostle from (the properties) of the people of township is for Allah and His Messenger". The narrator said: I do not know whether he also recited the previous verse or not. Umar continued: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) distrbuted among you the properties abandoned by Banu Nadir. By Allah, he never preferred himself over you and never appropriated anything to your exclusion. (After a fair distribution in this way) this property was left over. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) would meet from its income his annual expenditure, and what remained would be deposited in the Bait-ul-Mal. (Continuing further) he said: I adjure you by Allah by Whose order the heavens and the earth are sustained. Do you know this? They said: Yes. Then he adjured Abbas and 'All as he had adjured the other persons and asked: Do you both know this? They said: Yes. He said: When the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) passed away, Abu Bakr said:" I am the successor of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ)." Both of you came to demand your shares from the property (left behind by the Messenger of Allah). (Referring to Hadrat 'Abbas), he said: You demanded your share from the property of your nephew, and he (referring to 'Ali) demanded a share on behalf of his wife from the property of her father. Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) had said:" We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity." So both of you thought him to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest. And Allah knows that he was true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. When Abu Bakr passed away and (I have become) the successor of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) and Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him), you thought me to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest. And Allah knows that I am true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. I became the guardian of this property. Then you as well as he came to me. Both of you have come and your purpose is identical. You said: Entrust the property to us. I said: If you wish that I should entrust it to you, it will be on the condition that both of you will undertake to abide by a pledge made with Allah that you will use it in the same way as the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) used it. So both of you got it. He said: Wasn't it like this? They said: Yes. He said: Then you have (again) come to me with the request that I should adjudge between you. No, by Allah. I will not give any other judgment except this until the arrival of the Doomsday. If you are unable to hold the property on this condition, return it to me.
وَحَدَّثَنِي عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أَسْمَاءَ الضُّبَعِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا جُوَيْرِيَةُ، عَنْ مَالِكٍ، عَنِ الزُّهْرِيِّ، أَنَّ مَالِكَ بْنَ أَوْسٍ، حَدَّثَهُ قَالَ أَرْسَلَ إِلَىَّ عُمَرُ بْنُ الْخَطَّابِ فَجِئْتُهُ حِينَ تَعَالَى النَّهَارُ - قَالَ - فَوَجَدْتُهُ فِي بَيْتِهِ جَالِسًا عَلَى سَرِيرٍ مُفْضِيًا إِلَى رِمَالِهِ مُتَّكِئًا عَلَى وِسَادَةٍ مِنْ أَدَمٍ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ لِي يَا مَالُ إِنَّهُ قَدْ دَفَّ أَهْلُ أَبْيَاتٍ مِنْ قَوْمِكَ وَقَدْ أَمَرْتُ فِيهِمْ بِرَضْخٍ فَخُذْهُ فَاقْسِمْهُ بَيْنَهُمْ - قَالَ - قُلْتُ لَوْ أَمَرْتَ بِهَذَا غَيْرِي قَالَ خُذْهُ يَا مَالُ ‏.‏ قَالَ فَجَاءَ يَرْفَا فَقَالَ هَلْ لَكَ يَا أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ فِي عُثْمَانَ وَعَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنِ عَوْفٍ وَالزُّبَيْرِ وَسَعْدٍ فَقَالَ عُمَرُ نَعَمْ ‏.‏ فَأَذِنَ لَهُمْ فَدَخَلُوا ثُمَّ جَاءَ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ هَلْ لَكَ فِي عَبَّاسٍ وَعَلِيٍّ قَالَ نَعَمْ ‏.‏ فَأَذِنَ لَهُمَا فَقَالَ عَبَّاسٌ يَا أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ اقْضِ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَ هَذَا الْكَاذِبِ الآثِمِ الْغَادِرِ الْخَائِنِ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ الْقَوْمُ أَجَلْ يَا أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ فَاقْضِ بَيْنَهُمْ وَأَرِحْهُمْ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ مَالِكُ بْنُ أَوْسٍ يُخَيَّلُ إِلَىَّ أَنَّهُمْ قَدْ كَانُوا قَدَّمُوهُمْ لِذَلِكَ - فَقَالَ عُمَرُ اتَّئِدَا أَنْشُدُكُمْ بِاللَّهِ الَّذِي بِإِذْنِهِ تَقُومُ السَّمَاءُ وَالأَرْضُ أَتَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏"‏ لاَ نُورَثُ مَا تَرَكْنَا صَدَقَةٌ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالُوا نَعَمْ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ أَقْبَلَ عَلَى الْعَبَّاسِ وَعَلِيٍّ فَقَالَ أَنْشُدُكُمَا بِاللَّهِ الَّذِي بِإِذْنِهِ تَقُومُ السَّمَاءُ وَالأَرْضُ أَتَعْلَمَانِ أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏"‏ لاَ نُورَثُ مَا تَرَكْنَاهُ صَدَقَةٌ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالاَ نَعَمْ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ عُمَرُ إِنَّ اللَّهَ جَلَّ وَعَزَّ كَانَ خَصَّ رَسُولَهُ صلى الله عليه وسلم بِخَاصَّةٍ لَمْ يُخَصِّصْ بِهَا أَحَدًا غَيْرَهُ قَالَ ‏{‏ مَا أَفَاءَ اللَّهُ عَلَى رَسُولِهِ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْقُرَى فَلِلَّهِ وَلِلرَّسُولِ‏}‏ مَا أَدْرِي هَلْ قَرَأَ الآيَةَ الَّتِي قَبْلَهَا أَمْ لاَ ‏.‏ قَالَ فَقَسَمَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم بَيْنَكُمْ أَمْوَالَ بَنِي النَّضِيرِ فَوَاللَّهِ مَا اسْتَأْثَرَ عَلَيْكُمْ وَلاَ أَخَذَهَا دُونَكُمْ حَتَّى بَقِيَ هَذَا الْمَالُ فَكَانَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَأْخُذُ مِنْهُ نَفَقَةَ سَنَةٍ ثُمَّ يَجْعَلُ مَا بَقِيَ أُسْوَةَ الْمَالِ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ قَالَ أَنْشُدُكُمْ بِاللَّهِ الَّذِي بِإِذْنِهِ تَقُومُ السَّمَاءُ وَالأَرْضُ أَتَعْلَمُونَ ذَلِكَ قَالُوا نَعَمْ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ نَشَدَ عَبَّاسًا وَعَلِيًّا بِمِثْلِ مَا نَشَدَ بِهِ الْقَوْمَ أَتَعْلَمَانِ ذَلِكَ قَالاَ نَعَمْ ‏.‏ قَالَ فَلَمَّا تُوُفِّيَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ أَنَا وَلِيُّ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَجِئْتُمَا تَطْلُبُ مِيرَاثَكَ مِنَ ابْنِ أَخِيكَ وَيَطْلُبُ هَذَا مِيرَاثَ امْرَأَتِهِ مِنْ أَبِيهَا فَقَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ مَا نُورَثُ مَا تَرَكْنَا صَدَقَةٌ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَرَأَيْتُمَاهُ كَاذِبًا آثِمًا غَادِرًا خَائِنًا وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ إِنَّهُ لَصَادِقٌ بَارٌّ رَاشِدٌ تَابِعٌ لِلْحَقِّ ثُمَّ تُوُفِّيَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ وَأَنَا وَلِيُّ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَوَلِيُّ أَبِي بَكْرٍ فَرَأَيْتُمَانِي كَاذِبًا آثِمًا غَادِرًا خَائِنًا وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ إِنِّي لَصَادِقٌ بَارٌّ رَاشِدٌ تَابِعٌ لِلْحَقِّ فَوَلِيتُهَا ثُمَّ جِئْتَنِي أَنْتَ وَهَذَا وَأَنْتُمَا جَمِيعٌ وَأَمْرُكُمَا وَاحِدٌ فَقُلْتُمَا ادْفَعْهَا إِلَيْنَا فَقُلْتُ إِنْ شِئْتُمْ دَفَعْتُهَا إِلَيْكُمَا عَلَى أَنَّ عَلَيْكُمَا عَهْدَ اللَّهِ أَنْ تَعْمَلاَ فِيهَا بِالَّذِي كَانَ يَعْمَلُ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَأَخَذْتُمَاهَا بِذَلِكَ قَالَ أَكَذَلِكَ قَالاَ نَعَمْ ‏.‏ قَالَ ثُمَّ جِئْتُمَانِي لأَقْضِيَ بَيْنَكُمَا وَلاَ وَاللَّهِ لاَ أَقْضِي بَيْنَكُمَا بِغَيْرِ ذَلِكَ حَتَّى تَقُومَ السَّاعَةُ فَإِنْ عَجَزْتُمَا عَنْهَا فَرُدَّاهَا إِلَىَّ ‏.‏
Reference    : Sahih Muslim 1757 c
In-book reference    : Book 32, Hadith 58
USC-MSA web (English) reference    : Book 19, Hadith 4349
  (deprecated numbering scheme)

As ypu can see, the hadith clearly states that Ali (as) and Abbas (ra) both considered Abu Bakr to be a liar and trecherous when he made this claim. Neither did Ali (as) say at that time that the prophet said such a thing.

We look at Quran for looking for prophets and their inheritance;

“Solomon was thankful to his Lord for these blessing bestowed on him: ‘And Solomon was David’s Heir. And he said ‘O mankind! We have been taught the language of birds, and have been given (abundance) all things. This surely is evidence favour” [Surah Saba Verse 12]

The only one thing I would like to ask you is why did Imam Ali (as) not stop his wife Bibi Fatima (sa) from asking for fadak if he had truly heard this hadith before and the hadith of Muslim says otherwise. Why would Bibi Fatima (sa) go to ask Abu Bakr for Fadak if they were never meant to have it ?

Does this leave us to assume that Bibi Fatima (sa) was hungry for a piece of land and had no knowledge of the hadith of her father ? Also, it wasn't Aisha that stopped the other wives that asked for their inheritance, it was her and hafsa who went to Uthman to ask for their share and Uthman sent them back by saying " Wasn't it you two who testified against fatima (sa) when she asked for her share by agreeing with Abu Bakr's statement " according to Kitab Sulaym Ibn Qays.
Ya Ali (as) Madad

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Verse 33:33 - Gender change from feminine to masculine
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2016, 01:52:33 PM »

Here's the thing; It is well established that Abu Bakr said that " We Prophets don't inherit. " Even though they've made a claim where Ali (as) supposedly accepted the saying of abu bakr regarding prophets don't inherit, I present to you this hadith:
It is reported by Zuhri that this tradition was narrated to him by Malik b. Aus who said:
Umar b. al-Khattab sent for me and I came to him when the day had advanced. I found him in his house sitting on his bare bed-stead, reclining on a leather pillow. He said (to me): Malik, some people of your tribe have hastened to me (with a request for help). I have ordered a little money for them. Take it and distribute it among them. I said: I wish you had ordered somebody else to do this job. He said: Malik, take it (and do what you have been told). At this moment (his man-servant) Yarfa' came in and said: Commander of the Faithful, what do you say about Uthman, Abd al-Rabman b. 'Auf, Zubair and Sa'd (who have come to seek an audience with you)? He said: Yes, and permitted them. so they entered. Then he (Yarfa') came again and said: What do you say about 'Ali and Abbas (who are present at the door)? He said: Yes, and permitted them to enter. Abbas said: Commander of the Faithful, decide (the dispute) between me and this sinful, treacherous, dishonest liar. The people (who were present) also said: Yes. Commander of the Faithful, do decide (the dispute) and have mercy on them. Malik b. Aus said: I could well imagine that they had sent them in advance for this purpose (by 'Ali and Abbas). 'Umar said: Wait and be patient. I adjure you by Allah by Whose order the heavens and the earth are sustained, don't you know that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:" We (prophets) do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity"? They said: Yes. Then he turned to Abbas and 'Ali and said: I adjure you both by Allah by Whose order the heavens and earth are sustained, don't you know that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:" We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity"? They (too) said: Yes. (Then) Umar said: Allah, the Glorious and Exalted, had done to His Messenger (ﷺ) a special favour that He has not done to anyone else except him. He quoted the Qur'anic verse:" What Allah has bestowed upon His Apostle from (the properties) of the people of township is for Allah and His Messenger". The narrator said: I do not know whether he also recited the previous verse or not. Umar continued: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) distrbuted among you the properties abandoned by Banu Nadir. By Allah, he never preferred himself over you and never appropriated anything to your exclusion. (After a fair distribution in this way) this property was left over. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) would meet from its income his annual expenditure, and what remained would be deposited in the Bait-ul-Mal. (Continuing further) he said: I adjure you by Allah by Whose order the heavens and the earth are sustained. Do you know this? They said: Yes. Then he adjured Abbas and 'All as he had adjured the other persons and asked: Do you both know this? They said: Yes. He said: When the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) passed away, Abu Bakr said:" I am the successor of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ)." Both of you came to demand your shares from the property (left behind by the Messenger of Allah). (Referring to Hadrat 'Abbas), he said: You demanded your share from the property of your nephew, and he (referring to 'Ali) demanded a share on behalf of his wife from the property of her father. Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) had said:" We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity." So both of you thought him to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest. And Allah knows that he was true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. When Abu Bakr passed away and (I have become) the successor of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) and Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him), you thought me to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest. And Allah knows that I am true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. I became the guardian of this property. Then you as well as he came to me. Both of you have come and your purpose is identical. You said: Entrust the property to us. I said: If you wish that I should entrust it to you, it will be on the condition that both of you will undertake to abide by a pledge made with Allah that you will use it in the same way as the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) used it. So both of you got it. He said: Wasn't it like this? They said: Yes. He said: Then you have (again) come to me with the request that I should adjudge between you. No, by Allah. I will not give any other judgment except this until the arrival of the Doomsday. If you are unable to hold the property on this condition, return it to me.
وَحَدَّثَنِي عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أَسْمَاءَ الضُّبَعِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا جُوَيْرِيَةُ، عَنْ مَالِكٍ، عَنِ الزُّهْرِيِّ، أَنَّ مَالِكَ بْنَ أَوْسٍ، حَدَّثَهُ قَالَ أَرْسَلَ إِلَىَّ عُمَرُ بْنُ الْخَطَّابِ فَجِئْتُهُ حِينَ تَعَالَى النَّهَارُ - قَالَ - فَوَجَدْتُهُ فِي بَيْتِهِ جَالِسًا عَلَى سَرِيرٍ مُفْضِيًا إِلَى رِمَالِهِ مُتَّكِئًا عَلَى وِسَادَةٍ مِنْ أَدَمٍ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ لِي يَا مَالُ إِنَّهُ قَدْ دَفَّ أَهْلُ أَبْيَاتٍ مِنْ قَوْمِكَ وَقَدْ أَمَرْتُ فِيهِمْ بِرَضْخٍ فَخُذْهُ فَاقْسِمْهُ بَيْنَهُمْ - قَالَ - قُلْتُ لَوْ أَمَرْتَ بِهَذَا غَيْرِي قَالَ خُذْهُ يَا مَالُ ‏.‏ قَالَ فَجَاءَ يَرْفَا فَقَالَ هَلْ لَكَ يَا أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ فِي عُثْمَانَ وَعَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنِ عَوْفٍ وَالزُّبَيْرِ وَسَعْدٍ فَقَالَ عُمَرُ نَعَمْ ‏.‏ فَأَذِنَ لَهُمْ فَدَخَلُوا ثُمَّ جَاءَ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ هَلْ لَكَ فِي عَبَّاسٍ وَعَلِيٍّ قَالَ نَعَمْ ‏.‏ فَأَذِنَ لَهُمَا فَقَالَ عَبَّاسٌ يَا أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ اقْضِ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَ هَذَا الْكَاذِبِ الآثِمِ الْغَادِرِ الْخَائِنِ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ الْقَوْمُ أَجَلْ يَا أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ فَاقْضِ بَيْنَهُمْ وَأَرِحْهُمْ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ مَالِكُ بْنُ أَوْسٍ يُخَيَّلُ إِلَىَّ أَنَّهُمْ قَدْ كَانُوا قَدَّمُوهُمْ لِذَلِكَ - فَقَالَ عُمَرُ اتَّئِدَا أَنْشُدُكُمْ بِاللَّهِ الَّذِي بِإِذْنِهِ تَقُومُ السَّمَاءُ وَالأَرْضُ أَتَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏"‏ لاَ نُورَثُ مَا تَرَكْنَا صَدَقَةٌ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالُوا نَعَمْ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ أَقْبَلَ عَلَى الْعَبَّاسِ وَعَلِيٍّ فَقَالَ أَنْشُدُكُمَا بِاللَّهِ الَّذِي بِإِذْنِهِ تَقُومُ السَّمَاءُ وَالأَرْضُ أَتَعْلَمَانِ أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏"‏ لاَ نُورَثُ مَا تَرَكْنَاهُ صَدَقَةٌ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالاَ نَعَمْ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ عُمَرُ إِنَّ اللَّهَ جَلَّ وَعَزَّ كَانَ خَصَّ رَسُولَهُ صلى الله عليه وسلم بِخَاصَّةٍ لَمْ يُخَصِّصْ بِهَا أَحَدًا غَيْرَهُ قَالَ ‏{‏ مَا أَفَاءَ اللَّهُ عَلَى رَسُولِهِ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْقُرَى فَلِلَّهِ وَلِلرَّسُولِ‏}‏ مَا أَدْرِي هَلْ قَرَأَ الآيَةَ الَّتِي قَبْلَهَا أَمْ لاَ ‏.‏ قَالَ فَقَسَمَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم بَيْنَكُمْ أَمْوَالَ بَنِي النَّضِيرِ فَوَاللَّهِ مَا اسْتَأْثَرَ عَلَيْكُمْ وَلاَ أَخَذَهَا دُونَكُمْ حَتَّى بَقِيَ هَذَا الْمَالُ فَكَانَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَأْخُذُ مِنْهُ نَفَقَةَ سَنَةٍ ثُمَّ يَجْعَلُ مَا بَقِيَ أُسْوَةَ الْمَالِ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ قَالَ أَنْشُدُكُمْ بِاللَّهِ الَّذِي بِإِذْنِهِ تَقُومُ السَّمَاءُ وَالأَرْضُ أَتَعْلَمُونَ ذَلِكَ قَالُوا نَعَمْ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ نَشَدَ عَبَّاسًا وَعَلِيًّا بِمِثْلِ مَا نَشَدَ بِهِ الْقَوْمَ أَتَعْلَمَانِ ذَلِكَ قَالاَ نَعَمْ ‏.‏ قَالَ فَلَمَّا تُوُفِّيَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ أَنَا وَلِيُّ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَجِئْتُمَا تَطْلُبُ مِيرَاثَكَ مِنَ ابْنِ أَخِيكَ وَيَطْلُبُ هَذَا مِيرَاثَ امْرَأَتِهِ مِنْ أَبِيهَا فَقَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ مَا نُورَثُ مَا تَرَكْنَا صَدَقَةٌ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَرَأَيْتُمَاهُ كَاذِبًا آثِمًا غَادِرًا خَائِنًا وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ إِنَّهُ لَصَادِقٌ بَارٌّ رَاشِدٌ تَابِعٌ لِلْحَقِّ ثُمَّ تُوُفِّيَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ وَأَنَا وَلِيُّ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَوَلِيُّ أَبِي بَكْرٍ فَرَأَيْتُمَانِي كَاذِبًا آثِمًا غَادِرًا خَائِنًا وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ إِنِّي لَصَادِقٌ بَارٌّ رَاشِدٌ تَابِعٌ لِلْحَقِّ فَوَلِيتُهَا ثُمَّ جِئْتَنِي أَنْتَ وَهَذَا وَأَنْتُمَا جَمِيعٌ وَأَمْرُكُمَا وَاحِدٌ فَقُلْتُمَا ادْفَعْهَا إِلَيْنَا فَقُلْتُ إِنْ شِئْتُمْ دَفَعْتُهَا إِلَيْكُمَا عَلَى أَنَّ عَلَيْكُمَا عَهْدَ اللَّهِ أَنْ تَعْمَلاَ فِيهَا بِالَّذِي كَانَ يَعْمَلُ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَأَخَذْتُمَاهَا بِذَلِكَ قَالَ أَكَذَلِكَ قَالاَ نَعَمْ ‏.‏ قَالَ ثُمَّ جِئْتُمَانِي لأَقْضِيَ بَيْنَكُمَا وَلاَ وَاللَّهِ لاَ أَقْضِي بَيْنَكُمَا بِغَيْرِ ذَلِكَ حَتَّى تَقُومَ السَّاعَةُ فَإِنْ عَجَزْتُمَا عَنْهَا فَرُدَّاهَا إِلَىَّ ‏.‏
Reference    : Sahih Muslim 1757 c
In-book reference    : Book 32, Hadith 58
USC-MSA web (English) reference    : Book 19, Hadith 4349
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As ypu can see, the hadith clearly states that Ali (as) and Abbas (ra) both considered Abu Bakr to be a liar and trecherous when he made this claim. Neither did Ali (as) say at that time that the prophet said such a thing.

Explanation:

As we can see, Abbas started off calling Ali to be a “liar, sinful, treacherous, and dishonest” and then Omar used same terms(liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest). Notice, the argument wasn’t beween Abubakr and Ali nor between Umar and Ali, rather Umar was the one who was to judge between Ali and Abbas. In this case, Umar(ra) was just assuming an argument, for sake of argument, infact Ali and Abbas, didn’t deem nor utter a word against Abubakr nor Umar, and they both affirmed the hadeeth of Prophet(saw), regarding inheritance. Hence the correct understanding of this issue is that, Al-Abbas, started off by using those words to describe Ali, since they were disputing over the charity, what they shall be the guardian of and how to distribute it, so they wanted the property to be divided between them, but this would have appeared to people as, it is inheritance, which would be against the condition on which Umar entrusted them the property. Hence we read in Tarikh Al-Islam:

Narrated Al-Zuhri saying: Narrated to me Al-A’raj that he heard Abu Huraira saying: I heard the Messenger of Allah (saw) saying: “By the One in whose hand is my soul, my heirs do not divide anything of what I leave behind, what we leave is charity.” So this charity was in the hands of Ali(ra) that he overcame Al-Abbas in it, and their dispute was on that, so Umar refused to divide it between them, until Abbas left it and Ali(ra) overcame it. (Tarikh Al-Islam. Vol. 3, Pg. 27).

قَالَ أَبُو دَاوُدَ أَرَادَ أَنْ لاَ يُوقِعَ عَلَيْهِ اسْمَ قَسْمٍ ‏.

Abu Dawud said: He (‘Umar) intended that the name of division should not apply to it.(Sunan Abu Dawud).

So Umar was trying to make a point that, they shouldn’t be fighting over it nor ask for its division since it isn’t their property. Hence, in response to their dispute, Omar is implying that if Al-Abbas’s descriptions of Ali are correct, then Abu Bakr and Umar are to be described as such, because Abubakr(ra) and Umar(ra) never gave them that property as inheriance but rather Umar just entrusted them over it, on the condition of managing it in same way as Prophet(saw) used to manage it. And both Ali and Abbas agreed over this condition and even they affirmed the hadeeth of Prophet(saw) not leaving inheritance. But since they disputed over the property, and want to divide the entrusted property, it would appear to people as inheritance, so Umar had to remind them that, they shouldn’t be fighting over it nor ask for it to be divided, since it isn’t their property nor inheritance, which is why Umar said, what is being misinterpreted by Shiapen.

As for what al-`Abbas said to `Ali, those are the words of a father to a son. al-`Abbas said it indicating `Ali, because he was in the position of a son with him. He wanted to make him retract what he thought was a mistake.

Moreover, Umar did not approve of Abbas’s words against Ali; Umar took the correct view that people can get in arguments and make honest mistakes and nobody should simply jump to strong personal attacks like Abbas did against Ali, calling him a “liar, sinful, treacherous, and dishonest.” Therefore, Umar repeated the words of Abbas verbatim in order to prove a point, Umar was just making use of rhetoric. The problem is that these Shia propagandists have no hold of Arabic Balagha. If they did, they would know that direct translation in English would not give the proper understanding. This is an example of, (reductio ad absurdum; Latin: “reduction to the absurd”) also known as an apagogical argument, which is a type of logical argument where one assumes a claim for the sake of argument, derives an absurd or ridiculous outcome, and then concludes that the original assumption must have been wrong as it led to an absurd result.

We would like to give an example just to enrich the mind: A mother and father who had told their two sons that the capitol of France was Paris. A few days later, the two sons get in an argument over the capitol of France. One brother says the capitol is Berlin, whereas the other says the capitol is London. When they go to their father to arbitrate over this matter, one brother says about the other: “Father, can you settle this dispute of mine with my idiot brother who thinks the capitol of France is Berlin?” The father is not appalled at the fact that his two little sons forgot the capitol of France; this is a mistake that anybody can make. But what he is appalled at is the language used by this son, calling his brother an “idiot.” The father then says: “So you thought of Mom as an idiot when she said that Paris was the capitol of France, and you thought I was an idiot when I said that too?” By saying this, the father is trying to dissuade the son from jumping to conclusions about his brother’s character, because in such a process, he would also believe his mother and father to be idiots as well.

Hence, Umar was simply repeating the words of Abbas verbatim. How can the Shias ignore this “coincidence” especially in light of Arabic Balagha? It is obvious from this that Umar was proving a point, and his words should thus be analyzed in this context. Another important observation is that the Shia propagandists will say that it was Ali who called Abu Bakr and Umar to be a “liar, sinful, treacherous, and dishonest.” But the reality is that, it was merely Umar who said that Abbas was implying this. There is a significant point.

What further proves our point is that `Ali’s words to Abu Bakr are documented after the incident regarding the demand of inheritance, in Sahih al-Bukhari:

إِنَّا قَدْ عَرَفْنَا فَضْلَكَ، وَمَا أَعْطَاكَ، اللَّهُ وَلَمْ نَنْفَسْ عَلَيْكَ خَيْرًا سَاقَهُ اللَّهُ إِلَيْكَ، وَلَكِنَّكَ اسْتَبْدَدْتَ عَلَيْنَا بِالأَمْرِ

[O Abu Bakr, we know well your superiority and what Allah has given you, and we are not jealous of the goodness that Allah has bestowed upon you, but you did not consult us.]

Secondly, it is unthinkable that either Al-Abbas or Ali thought of Abu Bakr or Omar in such manner. This is because both caliphs were approached by both men, who were seeking justice. It is not logical for someone to seek justice from someone that they saw as a liar, sinful, treacherous, and dishonest.

Thirdly, notice the hadeeth that how Abbas(ra) referred to ‘Umar(ra) as “Ameer-ul-mu’mineen(leader of the believers)!” This proves that ‘Umar was a legitimate Khaleefah, contrary to shi’aa lies and propaganda.

Fourthly, Ali and al-`Abbas, when they came to `Umar, they were not asking for Fadak or Khaybar, they just asked for control of the Sadaqat of Madinah from the property of banu al-Nadeer(Jews) and Mukhayreeq as they believed they were at least entitled to do so.

We read in the books of Sunan:

عَلِيًّا، وَالْعَبَّاسَ رضي الله عنهما يختصمان فيما أفاء الله على رَسُولِ اللَّهِ مِنْ أَمْوَالِ بَنِي النَّضِير

[`Ali and al-`Abbas both disputed over what Allah has given as Fay’ to his messenger from the property of banu al-Nadeer.]

هُمَا يَخْتَصِمَانِ فِي الصَّوَافِي الَّتِي أَفَاءَ اللَّهُ عَلَى رَسُولِهِ مِنْ أَمْوَالِ بَنِي النَّضِير

[And they were disputing regarding the pure possessions that Allah granted as Fay’ to his messenger (saw) from bani al-Nadeer.]

Two years into his Khilafah, `Umar ibn al-Khattab out of good will towards them entrusted the Sadaqat of Madinah to both men since they were the heads of Ahlul-Bayt, he never gave it to them as inheritance, but just appointed them over it to care for it and benefit from it and to distribute its produce as the Prophet (saw) and Abu Bakr did before.

`Ali asked for his wife’s part to be entrusted to him and al-`Abbas asked for his nephew’s part to be entrusted to him, but `Umar said what we read in Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari.

Umar said: I said: If you wish that I should entrust it to you, it will be on the condition that both of you will undertake to abide by a pledge made with Allah that you will use it in the same way as the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used it. (Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4349)

Umar said: I said to you both, ‘If you wish, I will place it in your custody on condition that you both will manage it in the same way as Allah’s Apostle and Abu Bakr did and as I have been doing since I took charge of managing it; otherwise, do not speak to me anymore about it.’ Then you both said, ‘Give it to us on that (condition).’ So I gave it to you on that condition…”I beseech you both by Allah, didn’t I give you all that property on that condition?” They said, “Yes.” (Sahih Bukhari Vol. 9, Book 92, Hadith 408)

Al-`Abbas and `Ali then disputed about the charity what they shall be the guardian of and how to distribute it’, it appears as if al-`Abbas was angry at `Ali so much that he called him names, so they both went to `Umar asking him to decide between them by dividing the entrusted property. `Umar refused to give any other judgment and told them to return it if they’re unable to manage it.

He said:

فَإِنْ عَجَزْتُمَا عَنْهُ فَادْفَعَا إِلَيَّ فَأَنَا أَكْفِيكُمَاهُ

[If you are unable to run this land, then return it to me and I shall save you the effort.].

As for the Fay’ of the lands of Khaybar including Fadak, `Umar held on to them and kept them well managed and properly taken care of as the Prophet (saw) used them for the urgent needs of the nation.

Thus, it is clear that both Abbas and Ali understood that although the produce of the land goes to charity, yet they viewed that, they can still manage the share which they would have got as inheritance, by being its trustees, and eat from it, since the Prophet (saw) said: “The family of Muhammad may eat from it.” To them being in control of this Waqf did not pose any contradiction to the prophetic narration.

A question may be asked, does this mean that since both went to `Umar each man asking for his part, and that `Umar reminded them of the narration, does it mean that they reject the prophet’s (saw) narration? As clarified above the answer is NO, he reminded them the hadeeth because both of them were disputing over the property and wanted to divide the entrusted property, which would have appeared to people as, inheritance, So Umar reminded them that, they shouldn’t ask for it, since it isn’t their property nor inheritance, hence Umar(ra) mentioned the hadeeth and asked their view on it. And both of them in the same narration affirmed it to be a hadeeth of Prophet(saw).

Lastly, both knew full well that `Umar was present when Abu Bakr made his ruling and agreed with him, this can only mean -as is apparent from the narration- that they only asked to control it.

IMPORTANTLY: One of the strongest facts which supports our view is that, when Ali(ra) became Caliph, he never over rule the decision of Abubakr(ra) and Umar(ra), and supposedly didn’t implement on the rule of Quran, by giving the share of inheritance to the remaining heirs of Prophet(saw). Like wives of Prophet(saw) and children of Abbas(ra), etc, though Ali(ra) was a person who would go to any extent in following Quran and Sunnah. Thus, this clearly proves that Ali(ra) accepted the hadeeth narrated by Abubakr(ra).
Taken from
https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2014/09/11/8-sunni-answers-to-shiapens-article-on-fadak-and-inheritance-of-prophetsaw-chapter-eight/


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We look at Quran for looking for prophets and their inheritance;

“Solomon was thankful to his Lord for these blessing bestowed on him: ‘And Solomon was David’s Heir. And he said ‘O mankind! We have been taught the language of birds, and have been given (abundance) all things. This surely is evidence favour” [Surah Saba Verse 12]
The fact the Sulaiman(AS) alone is mentioned as the sole heir, is a clear proof that, this verse is not talking about heir due to relation, but a political heir, because Dawud(AS) had other children as well. So this is about a political heir, similar to what the hadeeth of al-Kafi states that, Imam after Prophet(SAWS) would take over the lands etc.

For details and a thorough refutation of shia arguments, refer this article:
https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2014/09/11/7-sunni-answers-to-shiapens-article-on-fadak-and-inheritance-of-prophetsaw-chapter-seven-2/

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The only one thing I would like to ask you is why did Imam Ali (as) not stop his wife Bibi Fatima (sa) from asking for fadak if he had truly heard this hadith before and the hadith of Muslim says otherwise. Why would Bibi Fatima (sa) go to ask Abu Bakr for Fadak if they were never meant to have it ?

Does this leave us to assume that Bibi Fatima (sa) was hungry for a piece of land and had no knowledge of the hadith of her father ? 

They didn't know the hadeeth, but when Abu bakr(RA) narrated it they accepted it, and When Umar(RA) question them, they affirmed it. As for why did Fatima(RA) go to ABubakr(RA) to ask Fadak, then brother, your own Authentic hadeeth of Al-Kafi answers it, that Fadak was NOT inherited by Fatima(RA), it belonged to the Imam after Prophet(SAWS). SO obviously as per AUTHENTIC SHia hadeeth, Fatima(RA) was wrong in asking Fadak. For your satisfaction see this again.

In Al-Kafi we read:

علي بن إبراهيه، عن أبيه، عن ابن أبي عنير، عن حفص بن البختري، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلاو قال:

الأىفال ما له يوجف عليه بخيل ولا ركاب، أو قوو صالحوا، أو قوو أعطوا بأيديهه، وكل أرض خربة

وبطون الأودية فهو لرسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وهو للاماو من بعده يضعه حيث يشاء

Abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) said:”Al-Anfal is such property for the acquisition of which no camels or horses are use and no armed expeditions are undertaken. It is the property that may come as a result of negotiated settlement or certain people would give with their own hands, may come from a barren land or from inside the valleys. Such properties belong to the Messenger of Allah and it will belong to the Imam(leader) after the the Messenger of Allah. The Imam(leader) will spend them as he may consider proper.”(Al Kafi, Chapter The Fay’, al-Anfal, al-Khums, its rules and the properties subject to al-Khums, page 186).[Majlisi in Mirat al Uqul vol 6, page 255 graded it as Hasan(good)]

Esteemed Shia scholar Al-Kulayni(author of Al-Kafi) who is considered Thiqatul Islam by Shias, said:

وأما الانفال فليس هذه سبيلها كان للرسول عليه السلام خاصة وكانت فدك لرسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله خاصة، لانه صلى الله عليه وآله فتحها وأمير المؤمنين عليه السلام، لم يكن معهما أحد فزال عنها اسم الفئ ولزمها اسم الانفال وكذلك الآجام(2) والمعادن والبحار والمفاوز هي للامام خاصة

The case of al-Anfal is different. It belongs to the Messenger only. Of such properties was Fadak that belonged to the Messenger of Allah only. It is because he and Amir al-Mu’minin (a.s.) conquered it and there no one else took part. The name al-Fay’ therefore does not apply to it. Al-Anfal applies to it. Similar to al-Anfal are such properties as the marshes, mines, oceans and the wilderness. They all belong to Imam(leader) exclusively.(Al-Kafi, Chapter 130, The Fay’, al-Anfal, al-Khums, its rules and the properties subject to al-Khums).


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Also, it wasn't Aisha that stopped the other wives that asked for their inheritance, it was her and hafsa who went to Uthman to ask for their share and Uthman sent them back by saying " Wasn't it you two who testified against fatima (sa) when she asked for her share by agreeing with Abu Bakr's statement " according to Kitab Sulaym Ibn Qays.
Kitab Sulaym ibn Qays is a fabricated book. It has no academic value.

Qalander Rafidhi

Re: Verse 33:33 - Gender change from feminine to masculine
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2016, 02:36:56 PM »
Who are you trying to fool, brother ? Read the hadith carefully. It clears says that both Abbas (ra) and Ali (as) thought abu bakr to be a liar when he said " Prophets don't inherit " perhaps your copy pasted arguments are too easy to write without even reading anything. In both scenarios it was Ali (as) and Abbas (ra) suspecting Abu Bakr and Umar to be liars. Not the other way around lol.
Ya Ali (as) Madad

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Verse 33:33 - Gender change from feminine to masculine
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2016, 02:49:50 PM »
Who are you trying to fool, brother ? Read the hadith carefully. It clears says that both Abbas (ra) and Ali (as) thought abu bakr to be a liar when he said " Prophets don't inherit " perhaps your copy pasted arguments are too easy to write without even reading anything. In both scenarios it was Ali (as) and Abbas (ra) suspecting Abu Bakr and Umar to be liars. Not the other way around lol.
Brother you are making a fool of yourself, we aren't making you. If you read the hadeeth in context then you will understand that, Umar(RA) was just using the SAME WORDS WHICH ABBAS(RA) USED FOR ALI(RA), to disapprove the argument of Abbas. If you didn't get it, then probably you need to improve your comprehension understanding skills.

Qalander Rafidhi

Re: Verse 33:33 - Gender change from feminine to masculine
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2016, 02:52:12 PM »
Who are you trying to fool, brother ? Read the hadith carefully. It clears says that both Abbas (ra) and Ali (as) thought abu bakr to be a liar when he said " Prophets don't inherit " perhaps your copy pasted arguments are too easy to write without even reading anything. In both scenarios it was Ali (as) and Abbas (ra) suspecting Abu Bakr and Umar to be liars. Not the other way around lol.
Brother you are making a fool of yourself, we aren't making you. If you read the hadeeth in context then you will understand that, Umar(RA) was just using the SAME WORDS WHICH ABBAS(RA) USED FOR ALI(RA), to disapprove the argument of Abbas. If you didn't get it, then probably you need to improve your comprehension understanding skills.

Go on brother. Point out the exact part where they're considering Ali (as) to be a liar.
Ya Ali (as) Madad

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Verse 33:33 - Gender change from feminine to masculine
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2016, 03:06:40 PM »
Here's the thing; It is well established that Abu Bakr said that " We Prophets don't inherit. " Even though they've made a claim where Ali (as) supposedly accepted the saying of abu bakr regarding prophets don't inherit, I present to you this hadith:
It is reported by Zuhri that this tradition was narrated to him by Malik b. Aus who said:
Umar b. al-Khattab sent for me and I came to him when the day had advanced. I found him in his house sitting on his bare bed-stead, reclining on a leather pillow. He said (to me): Malik, some people of your tribe have hastened to me (with a request for help). I have ordered a little money for them. Take it and distribute it among them. I said: I wish you had ordered somebody else to do this job. He said: Malik, take it (and do what you have been told). At this moment (his man-servant) Yarfa' came in and said: Commander of the Faithful, what do you say about Uthman, Abd al-Rabman b. 'Auf, Zubair and Sa'd (who have come to seek an audience with you)? He said: Yes, and permitted them. so they entered. Then he (Yarfa') came again and said: What do you say about 'Ali and Abbas (who are present at the door)? He said: Yes, and permitted them to enter. Abbas said: Commander of the Faithful, decide (the dispute) between me and this sinful, treacherous, dishonest liar. The people (who were present) also said: Yes. Commander of the Faithful, do decide (the dispute) and have mercy on them. Malik b. Aus said: I could well imagine that they had sent them in advance for this purpose (by 'Ali and Abbas). 'Umar said: Wait and be patient. I adjure you by Allah by Whose order the heavens and the earth are sustained, don't you know that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:" We (prophets) do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity"? They said: Yes. Then he turned to Abbas and 'Ali and said: I adjure you both by Allah by Whose order the heavens and earth are sustained, don't you know that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:" We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity"? They (too) said: Yes. (Then) Umar said: Allah, the Glorious and Exalted, had done to His Messenger (ﷺ) a special favour that He has not done to anyone else except him. He quoted the Qur'anic verse:" What Allah has bestowed upon His Apostle from (the properties) of the people of township is for Allah and His Messenger". The narrator said: I do not know whether he also recited the previous verse or not. Umar continued: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) distrbuted among you the properties abandoned by Banu Nadir. By Allah, he never preferred himself over you and never appropriated anything to your exclusion. (After a fair distribution in this way) this property was left over. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) would meet from its income his annual expenditure, and what remained would be deposited in the Bait-ul-Mal. (Continuing further) he said: I adjure you by Allah by Whose order the heavens and the earth are sustained. Do you know this? They said: Yes. Then he adjured Abbas and 'All as he had adjured the other persons and asked: Do you both know this? They said: Yes. He said: When the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) passed away, Abu Bakr said:" I am the successor of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ)." Both of you came to demand your shares from the property (left behind by the Messenger of Allah). (Referring to Hadrat 'Abbas), he said: You demanded your share from the property of your nephew, and he (referring to 'Ali) demanded a share on behalf of his wife from the property of her father. Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) had said:" We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity." So both of you thought him to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest. And Allah knows that he was true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. When Abu Bakr passed away and (I have become) the successor of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) and Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him), you thought me to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest. And Allah knows that I am true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. I became the guardian of this property. Then you as well as he came to me. Both of you have come and your purpose is identical. You said: Entrust the property to us. I said: If you wish that I should entrust it to you, it will be on the condition that both of you will undertake to abide by a pledge made with Allah that you will use it in the same way as the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) used it. So both of you got it. He said: Wasn't it like this? They said: Yes. He said: Then you have (again) come to me with the request that I should adjudge between you. No, by Allah. I will not give any other judgment except this until the arrival of the Doomsday. If you are unable to hold the property on this condition, return it to me.
وَحَدَّثَنِي عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أَسْمَاءَ الضُّبَعِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا جُوَيْرِيَةُ، عَنْ مَالِكٍ، عَنِ الزُّهْرِيِّ، أَنَّ مَالِكَ بْنَ أَوْسٍ، حَدَّثَهُ قَالَ أَرْسَلَ إِلَىَّ عُمَرُ بْنُ الْخَطَّابِ فَجِئْتُهُ حِينَ تَعَالَى النَّهَارُ - قَالَ - فَوَجَدْتُهُ فِي بَيْتِهِ جَالِسًا عَلَى سَرِيرٍ مُفْضِيًا إِلَى رِمَالِهِ مُتَّكِئًا عَلَى وِسَادَةٍ مِنْ أَدَمٍ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ لِي يَا مَالُ إِنَّهُ قَدْ دَفَّ أَهْلُ أَبْيَاتٍ مِنْ قَوْمِكَ وَقَدْ أَمَرْتُ فِيهِمْ بِرَضْخٍ فَخُذْهُ فَاقْسِمْهُ بَيْنَهُمْ - قَالَ - قُلْتُ لَوْ أَمَرْتَ بِهَذَا غَيْرِي قَالَ خُذْهُ يَا مَالُ ‏.‏ قَالَ فَجَاءَ يَرْفَا فَقَالَ هَلْ لَكَ يَا أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ فِي عُثْمَانَ وَعَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنِ عَوْفٍ وَالزُّبَيْرِ وَسَعْدٍ فَقَالَ عُمَرُ نَعَمْ ‏.‏ فَأَذِنَ لَهُمْ فَدَخَلُوا ثُمَّ جَاءَ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ هَلْ لَكَ فِي عَبَّاسٍ وَعَلِيٍّ قَالَ نَعَمْ ‏.‏ فَأَذِنَ لَهُمَا فَقَالَ عَبَّاسٌ يَا أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ اقْضِ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَ هَذَا الْكَاذِبِ الآثِمِ الْغَادِرِ الْخَائِنِ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ الْقَوْمُ أَجَلْ يَا أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ فَاقْضِ بَيْنَهُمْ وَأَرِحْهُمْ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ مَالِكُ بْنُ أَوْسٍ يُخَيَّلُ إِلَىَّ أَنَّهُمْ قَدْ كَانُوا قَدَّمُوهُمْ لِذَلِكَ - فَقَالَ عُمَرُ اتَّئِدَا أَنْشُدُكُمْ بِاللَّهِ الَّذِي بِإِذْنِهِ تَقُومُ السَّمَاءُ وَالأَرْضُ أَتَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏"‏ لاَ نُورَثُ مَا تَرَكْنَا صَدَقَةٌ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالُوا نَعَمْ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ أَقْبَلَ عَلَى الْعَبَّاسِ وَعَلِيٍّ فَقَالَ أَنْشُدُكُمَا بِاللَّهِ الَّذِي بِإِذْنِهِ تَقُومُ السَّمَاءُ وَالأَرْضُ أَتَعْلَمَانِ أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏"‏ لاَ نُورَثُ مَا تَرَكْنَاهُ صَدَقَةٌ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالاَ نَعَمْ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ عُمَرُ إِنَّ اللَّهَ جَلَّ وَعَزَّ كَانَ خَصَّ رَسُولَهُ صلى الله عليه وسلم بِخَاصَّةٍ لَمْ يُخَصِّصْ بِهَا أَحَدًا غَيْرَهُ قَالَ ‏{‏ مَا أَفَاءَ اللَّهُ عَلَى رَسُولِهِ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْقُرَى فَلِلَّهِ وَلِلرَّسُولِ‏}‏ مَا أَدْرِي هَلْ قَرَأَ الآيَةَ الَّتِي قَبْلَهَا أَمْ لاَ ‏.‏ قَالَ فَقَسَمَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم بَيْنَكُمْ أَمْوَالَ بَنِي النَّضِيرِ فَوَاللَّهِ مَا اسْتَأْثَرَ عَلَيْكُمْ وَلاَ أَخَذَهَا دُونَكُمْ حَتَّى بَقِيَ هَذَا الْمَالُ فَكَانَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَأْخُذُ مِنْهُ نَفَقَةَ سَنَةٍ ثُمَّ يَجْعَلُ مَا بَقِيَ أُسْوَةَ الْمَالِ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ قَالَ أَنْشُدُكُمْ بِاللَّهِ الَّذِي بِإِذْنِهِ تَقُومُ السَّمَاءُ وَالأَرْضُ أَتَعْلَمُونَ ذَلِكَ قَالُوا نَعَمْ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ نَشَدَ عَبَّاسًا وَعَلِيًّا بِمِثْلِ مَا نَشَدَ بِهِ الْقَوْمَ أَتَعْلَمَانِ ذَلِكَ قَالاَ نَعَمْ ‏.‏ قَالَ فَلَمَّا تُوُفِّيَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ أَنَا وَلِيُّ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَجِئْتُمَا تَطْلُبُ مِيرَاثَكَ مِنَ ابْنِ أَخِيكَ وَيَطْلُبُ هَذَا مِيرَاثَ امْرَأَتِهِ مِنْ أَبِيهَا فَقَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ مَا نُورَثُ مَا تَرَكْنَا صَدَقَةٌ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَرَأَيْتُمَاهُ كَاذِبًا آثِمًا غَادِرًا خَائِنًا وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ إِنَّهُ لَصَادِقٌ بَارٌّ رَاشِدٌ تَابِعٌ لِلْحَقِّ ثُمَّ تُوُفِّيَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ وَأَنَا وَلِيُّ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَوَلِيُّ أَبِي بَكْرٍ فَرَأَيْتُمَانِي كَاذِبًا آثِمًا غَادِرًا خَائِنًا وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ إِنِّي لَصَادِقٌ بَارٌّ رَاشِدٌ تَابِعٌ لِلْحَقِّ فَوَلِيتُهَا ثُمَّ جِئْتَنِي أَنْتَ وَهَذَا وَأَنْتُمَا جَمِيعٌ وَأَمْرُكُمَا وَاحِدٌ فَقُلْتُمَا ادْفَعْهَا إِلَيْنَا فَقُلْتُ إِنْ شِئْتُمْ دَفَعْتُهَا إِلَيْكُمَا عَلَى أَنَّ عَلَيْكُمَا عَهْدَ اللَّهِ أَنْ تَعْمَلاَ فِيهَا بِالَّذِي كَانَ يَعْمَلُ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَأَخَذْتُمَاهَا بِذَلِكَ قَالَ أَكَذَلِكَ قَالاَ نَعَمْ ‏.‏ قَالَ ثُمَّ جِئْتُمَانِي لأَقْضِيَ بَيْنَكُمَا وَلاَ وَاللَّهِ لاَ أَقْضِي بَيْنَكُمَا بِغَيْرِ ذَلِكَ حَتَّى تَقُومَ السَّاعَةُ فَإِنْ عَجَزْتُمَا عَنْهَا فَرُدَّاهَا إِلَىَّ ‏.‏
Reference    : Sahih Muslim 1757 c
In-book reference    : Book 32, Hadith 58
USC-MSA web (English) reference    : Book 19, Hadith 4349
  (deprecated numbering scheme)
See the red part in the hadeeth you cite, those are the words of Abbas, when Abbas(Ra) & Ali(RA), approached Ameer ul Momineen Umar(RA) to solve a dispute between him and Ali(RA). And people also asked Ameer ul Momineen Umar(RA) to solve it between them.

Qalander Rafidhi

Re: Verse 33:33 - Gender change from feminine to masculine
« Reply #32 on: May 09, 2016, 03:18:51 PM »
Alright, brother. My bad. But, the hadith still stands to prove that the first time Abbas made a claim for inheritance, he was the one who asked on behalf of Ali (as) and both of them thought of him being a trecherous liar ( Abu Bakr ) and then same in the khilafat of Umar. Then again it's Abbas that has come with the dispute, meaning that it was him who wanted the split, not Ali (as). Had it been Ali (as) then Abbas would've told him the supposed lie Ali (as) told in order to take the land or the property for himself. There has been no mention of such lie that he's claiming.

Second, why is it that Ali (as) kept quiet and didn't say a word ? He wasn't a child and neither was he affraid of Abbas. Why hasn't he said anything in this hadith other than " Yes " or " No ". There are no arguments that were presented other than an accusation. And, a supposed fight over the land.
Ya Ali (as) Madad

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Verse 33:33 - Gender change from feminine to masculine
« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2016, 03:51:57 PM »
Alright, brother. My bad. But, the hadith still stands to prove that the first time Abbas made a claim for inheritance, he was the one who asked on behalf of Ali (as) and both of them thought of him being a trecherous liar ( Abu Bakr ) and then same in the khilafat of Umar. Then again it's Abbas that has come with the dispute, meaning that it was him who wanted the split, not Ali (as). Had it been Ali (as) then Abbas would've told him the supposed lie Ali (as) told in order to take the land or the property for himself. There has been no mention of such lie that he's claiming.
That's why i said, improve your comprehension undrstanding skills and read the explanation i gave, it covers all yours doubts. Read it properly.

Quote
Second, why is it that Ali (as) kept quiet and didn't say a word ? He wasn't a child and neither was he affraid of Abbas. Why hasn't he said anything in this hadith other than " Yes " or " No ". There are no arguments that were presented other than an accusation. And, a supposed fight over the land.
Because, Abbas was his uncle. So its called respect. You might find elders getting aggressive on us, they say things which they really don't mean, but we don't argue back to them. That's called respect.

Qalander Rafidhi

Re: Verse 33:33 - Gender change from feminine to masculine
« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2016, 03:58:50 PM »
Alright, brother. My bad. But, the hadith still stands to prove that the first time Abbas made a claim for inheritance, he was the one who asked on behalf of Ali (as) and both of them thought of him being a trecherous liar ( Abu Bakr ) and then same in the khilafat of Umar. Then again it's Abbas that has come with the dispute, meaning that it was him who wanted the split, not Ali (as). Had it been Ali (as) then Abbas would've told him the supposed lie Ali (as) told in order to take the land or the property for himself. There has been no mention of such lie that he's claiming.
That's why i said, improve your comprehension undrstanding skills and read the explanation i gave, it covers all yours doubts. Read it properly.

Quote
Second, why is it that Ali (as) kept quiet and didn't say a word ? He wasn't a child and neither was he affraid of Abbas. Why hasn't he said anything in this hadith other than " Yes " or " No ". There are no arguments that were presented other than an accusation. And, a supposed fight over the land.
Because, Abbas was his uncle. So its called respect. You might find elders getting aggressive on us, they say things which they really don't mean, but we don't argue back to them. That's called respect.

If Ali (as) had respect for Abbas, why did they not solve the dispute amongst themselves ? You do accept there was a dispute, so, why should Ali (as) become quiet when he's infront of Umar yet he chooses to speak his mind in front of Abbas ? Secondly, waa the accusation of Abbas correct the first time around that we take him seriously this time ? He said similar things in regarda to both Abu Bakr amd Umar. Why do we neglect that part and only consider this to be true ?

I understand you have hadith which is supposedly solving a dispute between Ali (as) and Abbas yet no one is talking about the opinions of Abu Bakr and the response of Abbas and Ali (as) in regards to it.
Ya Ali (as) Madad

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Verse 33:33 - Gender change from feminine to masculine
« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2016, 05:22:22 PM »
Alright, brother. My bad. But, the hadith still stands to prove that the first time Abbas made a claim for inheritance, he was the one who asked on behalf of Ali (as) and both of them thought of him being a trecherous liar ( Abu Bakr ) and then same in the khilafat of Umar. Then again it's Abbas that has come with the dispute, meaning that it was him who wanted the split, not Ali (as). Had it been Ali (as) then Abbas would've told him the supposed lie Ali (as) told in order to take the land or the property for himself. There has been no mention of such lie that he's claiming.
That's why i said, improve your comprehension undrstanding skills and read the explanation i gave, it covers all yours doubts. Read it properly.

Quote
Second, why is it that Ali (as) kept quiet and didn't say a word ? He wasn't a child and neither was he affraid of Abbas. Why hasn't he said anything in this hadith other than " Yes " or " No ". There are no arguments that were presented other than an accusation. And, a supposed fight over the land.
Because, Abbas was his uncle. So its called respect. You might find elders getting aggressive on us, they say things which they really don't mean, but we don't argue back to them. That's called respect.

If Ali (as) had respect for Abbas, why did they not solve the dispute amongst themselves ? You do accept there was a dispute, so, why should Ali (as) become quiet when he's infront of Umar yet he chooses to speak his mind in front of Abbas ? Secondly, waa the accusation of Abbas correct the first time around that we take him seriously this time ? He said similar things in regarda to both Abu Bakr amd Umar. Why do we neglect that part and only consider this to be true ?
Man!! Please read the hadeeth in your mother tongue, if its urdu, read the urdu translation, Abbas(RA) never said such thing for Abubakr(RA) or Umar(RA). I can help you understand an issue, but if you can't grasp english properly then I'm helpless. What I provided you was a plain and clear explanation in English, yet you bring up arguments which apparently show that either you didn't read a word of it or you don't understand english properly.

As for why Didn't Ali and Abbas solve the dispute, if Ali(RA) respected Abbas(RA), then that was a legal issue, hence it was best sorted out infront of the legal authority. And I believe you are quite young and have no experience of worldly or legal affairs.

Qalander Rafidhi

Re: Verse 33:33 - Gender change from feminine to masculine
« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2016, 05:38:58 PM »
Alright, brother. My bad. But, the hadith still stands to prove that the first time Abbas made a claim for inheritance, he was the one who asked on behalf of Ali (as) and both of them thought of him being a trecherous liar ( Abu Bakr ) and then same in the khilafat of Umar. Then again it's Abbas that has come with the dispute, meaning that it was him who wanted the split, not Ali (as). Had it been Ali (as) then Abbas would've told him the supposed lie Ali (as) told in order to take the land or the property for himself. There has been no mention of such lie that he's claiming.
That's why i said, improve your comprehension undrstanding skills and read the explanation i gave, it covers all yours doubts. Read it properly.

Quote
Second, why is it that Ali (as) kept quiet and didn't say a word ? He wasn't a child and neither was he affraid of Abbas. Why hasn't he said anything in this hadith other than " Yes " or " No ". There are no arguments that were presented other than an accusation. And, a supposed fight over the land.
Because, Abbas was his uncle. So its called respect. You might find elders getting aggressive on us, they say things which they really don't mean, but we don't argue back to them. That's called respect.

If Ali (as) had respect for Abbas, why did they not solve the dispute amongst themselves ? You do accept there was a dispute, so, why should Ali (as) become quiet when he's infront of Umar yet he chooses to speak his mind in front of Abbas ? Secondly, waa the accusation of Abbas correct the first time around that we take him seriously this time ? He said similar things in regarda to both Abu Bakr amd Umar. Why do we neglect that part and only consider this to be true ?
Man!! Please read the hadeeth in your mother tongue, if its urdu, read the urdu translation, Abbas(RA) never said such thing for Abubakr(RA) or Umar(RA). I can help you understand an issue, but if you can't grasp english properly then I'm helpless. What I provided you was a plain and clear explanation in English, yet you bring up arguments which apparently show that either you didn't read a word of it or you don't understand english properly.

As for why Didn't Ali and Abbas solve the dispute, if Ali(RA) respected Abbas(RA), then that was a legal issue, hence it was best sorted out infront of the legal authority. And I believe you are quite young and have no experience of worldly or legal affairs.

What is the meaning of this, brother ?
" Both of you came to demand your shares from the property (left behind by the Messenger of Allah). (Referring to Hadrat 'Abbas), he said: You demanded your share from the property of your nephew, and he (referring to 'Ali) demanded a share on behalf of his wife from the property of her father. Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) had said:" We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity." So both of you thought him to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest. And Allah knows that he was true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. When Abu Bakr passed away and (I have become) the successor of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) and Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him), you thought me to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest.
Ya Ali (as) Madad

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Verse 33:33 - Gender change from feminine to masculine
« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2016, 05:47:27 PM »
Alright, brother. My bad. But, the hadith still stands to prove that the first time Abbas made a claim for inheritance, he was the one who asked on behalf of Ali (as) and both of them thought of him being a trecherous liar ( Abu Bakr ) and then same in the khilafat of Umar. Then again it's Abbas that has come with the dispute, meaning that it was him who wanted the split, not Ali (as). Had it been Ali (as) then Abbas would've told him the supposed lie Ali (as) told in order to take the land or the property for himself. There has been no mention of such lie that he's claiming.
That's why i said, improve your comprehension undrstanding skills and read the explanation i gave, it covers all yours doubts. Read it properly.

Quote
Second, why is it that Ali (as) kept quiet and didn't say a word ? He wasn't a child and neither was he affraid of Abbas. Why hasn't he said anything in this hadith other than " Yes " or " No ". There are no arguments that were presented other than an accusation. And, a supposed fight over the land.
Because, Abbas was his uncle. So its called respect. You might find elders getting aggressive on us, they say things which they really don't mean, but we don't argue back to them. That's called respect.

If Ali (as) had respect for Abbas, why did they not solve the dispute amongst themselves ? You do accept there was a dispute, so, why should Ali (as) become quiet when he's infront of Umar yet he chooses to speak his mind in front of Abbas ? Secondly, waa the accusation of Abbas correct the first time around that we take him seriously this time ? He said similar things in regarda to both Abu Bakr amd Umar. Why do we neglect that part and only consider this to be true ?
Man!! Please read the hadeeth in your mother tongue, if its urdu, read the urdu translation, Abbas(RA) never said such thing for Abubakr(RA) or Umar(RA). I can help you understand an issue, but if you can't grasp english properly then I'm helpless. What I provided you was a plain and clear explanation in English, yet you bring up arguments which apparently show that either you didn't read a word of it or you don't understand english properly.

As for why Didn't Ali and Abbas solve the dispute, if Ali(RA) respected Abbas(RA), then that was a legal issue, hence it was best sorted out infront of the legal authority. And I believe you are quite young and have no experience of worldly or legal affairs.

What is the meaning of this, brother ?
" Both of you came to demand your shares from the property (left behind by the Messenger of Allah). (Referring to Hadrat 'Abbas), he said: You demanded your share from the property of your nephew, and he (referring to 'Ali) demanded a share on behalf of his wife from the property of her father. Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) had said:" We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity." So both of you thought him to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest. And Allah knows that he was true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. When Abu Bakr passed away and (I have become) the successor of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) and Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him), you thought me to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest.

Brother, You know you are quoting it OUT OF CONTEXT. So how will you understand a hadeeth quoting it OUT OF CONTEXT?

For understanding it WITH CONTEXT READ THIS, IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE IN THIS EXPLNATION THEN PLEASE LET ME KNOW:
Quote
Explanation:

As we can see, Abbas started off calling Ali to be a “liar, sinful, treacherous, and dishonest” and then Omar used same terms(liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest). Notice, the argument wasn’t beween Abubakr and Ali nor between Umar and Ali, rather Umar was the one who was to judge between Ali and Abbas. In this case, Umar(ra) was just assuming an argument, for sake of argument, infact Ali and Abbas, didn’t deem nor utter a word against Abubakr nor Umar, and they both affirmed the hadeeth of Prophet(saw), regarding inheritance. Hence the correct understanding of this issue is that, Al-Abbas, started off by using those words to describe Ali, since they were disputing over the charity, what they shall be the guardian of and how to distribute it, so they wanted the property to be divided between them, but this would have appeared to people as, it is inheritance, which would be against the condition on which Umar entrusted them the property. Hence we read in Tarikh Al-Islam:

Narrated Al-Zuhri saying: Narrated to me Al-A’raj that he heard Abu Huraira saying: I heard the Messenger of Allah (saw) saying: “By the One in whose hand is my soul, my heirs do not divide anything of what I leave behind, what we leave is charity.” So this charity was in the hands of Ali(ra) that he overcame Al-Abbas in it, and their dispute was on that, so Umar refused to divide it between them, until Abbas left it and Ali(ra) overcame it. (Tarikh Al-Islam. Vol. 3, Pg. 27).

قَالَ أَبُو دَاوُدَ أَرَادَ أَنْ لاَ يُوقِعَ عَلَيْهِ اسْمَ قَسْمٍ ‏.

Abu Dawud said: He (‘Umar) intended that the name of division should not apply to it.(Sunan Abu Dawud).

So Umar was trying to make a point that, they shouldn’t be fighting over it nor ask for its division since it isn’t their property. Hence, in response to their dispute, Omar is implying that if Al-Abbas’s descriptions of Ali are correct, then Abu Bakr and Umar are to be described as such, because Abubakr(ra) and Umar(ra) never gave them that property as inheriance but rather Umar just entrusted them over it, on the condition of managing it in same way as Prophet(saw) used to manage it. And both Ali and Abbas agreed over this condition and even they affirmed the hadeeth of Prophet(saw) not leaving inheritance. But since they disputed over the property, and want to divide the entrusted property, it would appear to people as inheritance, so Umar had to remind them that, they shouldn’t be fighting over it nor ask for it to be divided, since it isn’t their property nor inheritance, which is why Umar said, what is being misinterpreted by Shiapen.

As for what al-`Abbas said to `Ali, those are the words of a father to a son. al-`Abbas said it indicating `Ali, because he was in the position of a son with him. He wanted to make him retract what he thought was a mistake.

Moreover, Umar did not approve of Abbas’s words against Ali; Umar took the correct view that people can get in arguments and make honest mistakes and nobody should simply jump to strong personal attacks like Abbas did against Ali, calling him a “liar, sinful, treacherous, and dishonest.” Therefore, Umar repeated the words of Abbas verbatim in order to prove a point, Umar was just making use of rhetoric. The problem is that these Shia propagandists have no hold of Arabic Balagha. If they did, they would know that direct translation in English would not give the proper understanding. This is an example of, (reductio ad absurdum; Latin: “reduction to the absurd”) also known as an apagogical argument, which is a type of logical argument where one assumes a claim for the sake of argument, derives an absurd or ridiculous outcome, and then concludes that the original assumption must have been wrong as it led to an absurd result.

We would like to give an example just to enrich the mind: A mother and father who had told their two sons that the capitol of France was Paris. A few days later, the two sons get in an argument over the capitol of France. One brother says the capitol is Berlin, whereas the other says the capitol is London. When they go to their father to arbitrate over this matter, one brother says about the other: “Father, can you settle this dispute of mine with my idiot brother who thinks the capitol of France is Berlin?” The father is not appalled at the fact that his two little sons forgot the capitol of France; this is a mistake that anybody can make. But what he is appalled at is the language used by this son, calling his brother an “idiot.” The father then says: “So you thought of Mom as an idiot when she said that Paris was the capitol of France, and you thought I was an idiot when I said that too?” By saying this, the father is trying to dissuade the son from jumping to conclusions about his brother’s character, because in such a process, he would also believe his mother and father to be idiots as well.

Hence, Umar was simply repeating the words of Abbas verbatim. How can the Shias ignore this “coincidence” especially in light of Arabic Balagha? It is obvious from this that Umar was proving a point, and his words should thus be analyzed in this context. Another important observation is that the Shia propagandists will say that it was Ali who called Abu Bakr and Umar to be a “liar, sinful, treacherous, and dishonest.” But the reality is that, it was merely Umar who said that Abbas was implying this. There is a significant point.

What further proves our point is that `Ali’s words to Abu Bakr are documented after the incident regarding the demand of inheritance, in Sahih al-Bukhari:

إِنَّا قَدْ عَرَفْنَا فَضْلَكَ، وَمَا أَعْطَاكَ، اللَّهُ وَلَمْ نَنْفَسْ عَلَيْكَ خَيْرًا سَاقَهُ اللَّهُ إِلَيْكَ، وَلَكِنَّكَ اسْتَبْدَدْتَ عَلَيْنَا بِالأَمْرِ

[O Abu Bakr, we know well your superiority and what Allah has given you, and we are not jealous of the goodness that Allah has bestowed upon you, but you did not consult us.]

Secondly, it is unthinkable that either Al-Abbas or Ali thought of Abu Bakr or Omar in such manner. This is because both caliphs were approached by both men, who were seeking justice. It is not logical for someone to seek justice from someone that they saw as a liar, sinful, treacherous, and dishonest.

Thirdly, notice the hadeeth that how Abbas(ra) referred to ‘Umar(ra) as “Ameer-ul-mu’mineen(leader of the believers)!” This proves that ‘Umar was a legitimate Khaleefah, contrary to shi’aa lies and propaganda.

Fourthly, Ali and al-`Abbas, when they came to `Umar, they were not asking for Fadak or Khaybar, they just asked for control of the Sadaqat of Madinah from the property of banu al-Nadeer(Jews) and Mukhayreeq as they believed they were at least entitled to do so.

We read in the books of Sunan:

عَلِيًّا، وَالْعَبَّاسَ رضي الله عنهما يختصمان فيما أفاء الله على رَسُولِ اللَّهِ مِنْ أَمْوَالِ بَنِي النَّضِير

[`Ali and al-`Abbas both disputed over what Allah has given as Fay’ to his messenger from the property of banu al-Nadeer.]

هُمَا يَخْتَصِمَانِ فِي الصَّوَافِي الَّتِي أَفَاءَ اللَّهُ عَلَى رَسُولِهِ مِنْ أَمْوَالِ بَنِي النَّضِير

[And they were disputing regarding the pure possessions that Allah granted as Fay’ to his messenger (saw) from bani al-Nadeer.]

Two years into his Khilafah, `Umar ibn al-Khattab out of good will towards them entrusted the Sadaqat of Madinah to both men since they were the heads of Ahlul-Bayt, he never gave it to them as inheritance, but just appointed them over it to care for it and benefit from it and to distribute its produce as the Prophet (saw) and Abu Bakr did before.

`Ali asked for his wife’s part to be entrusted to him and al-`Abbas asked for his nephew’s part to be entrusted to him, but `Umar said what we read in Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari.

Umar said: I said: If you wish that I should entrust it to you, it will be on the condition that both of you will undertake to abide by a pledge made with Allah that you will use it in the same way as the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used it. (Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4349)

Umar said: I said to you both, ‘If you wish, I will place it in your custody on condition that you both will manage it in the same way as Allah’s Apostle and Abu Bakr did and as I have been doing since I took charge of managing it; otherwise, do not speak to me anymore about it.’ Then you both said, ‘Give it to us on that (condition).’ So I gave it to you on that condition…”I beseech you both by Allah, didn’t I give you all that property on that condition?” They said, “Yes.” (Sahih Bukhari Vol. 9, Book 92, Hadith 408)

Al-`Abbas and `Ali then disputed about the charity what they shall be the guardian of and how to distribute it’, it appears as if al-`Abbas was angry at `Ali so much that he called him names, so they both went to `Umar asking him to decide between them by dividing the entrusted property. `Umar refused to give any other judgment and told them to return it if they’re unable to manage it.

He said:

فَإِنْ عَجَزْتُمَا عَنْهُ فَادْفَعَا إِلَيَّ فَأَنَا أَكْفِيكُمَاهُ

[If you are unable to run this land, then return it to me and I shall save you the effort.].

As for the Fay’ of the lands of Khaybar including Fadak, `Umar held on to them and kept them well managed and properly taken care of as the Prophet (saw) used them for the urgent needs of the nation.

Thus, it is clear that both Abbas and Ali understood that although the produce of the land goes to charity, yet they viewed that, they can still manage the share which they would have got as inheritance, by being its trustees, and eat from it, since the Prophet (saw) said: “The family of Muhammad may eat from it.” To them being in control of this Waqf did not pose any contradiction to the prophetic narration.

A question may be asked, does this mean that since both went to `Umar each man asking for his part, and that `Umar reminded them of the narration, does it mean that they reject the prophet’s (saw) narration? As clarified above the answer is NO, he reminded them the hadeeth because both of them were disputing over the property and wanted to divide the entrusted property, which would have appeared to people as, inheritance, So Umar reminded them that, they shouldn’t ask for it, since it isn’t their property nor inheritance, hence Umar(ra) mentioned the hadeeth and asked their view on it. And both of them in the same narration affirmed it to be a hadeeth of Prophet(saw).

Lastly, both knew full well that `Umar was present when Abu Bakr made his ruling and agreed with him, this can only mean -as is apparent from the narration- that they only asked to control it.

IMPORTANTLY: One of the strongest facts which supports our view is that, when Ali(ra) became Caliph, he never over rule the decision of Abubakr(ra) and Umar(ra), and supposedly didn’t implement on the rule of Quran, by giving the share of inheritance to the remaining heirs of Prophet(saw). Like wives of Prophet(saw) and children of Abbas(ra), etc, though Ali(ra) was a person who would go to any extent in following Quran and Sunnah. Thus, this clearly proves that Ali(ra) accepted the hadeeth narrated by Abubakr(ra).

Qalander Rafidhi

Re: Verse 33:33 - Gender change from feminine to masculine
« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2016, 05:59:18 PM »
Alright, brother. My bad. But, the hadith still stands to prove that the first time Abbas made a claim for inheritance, he was the one who asked on behalf of Ali (as) and both of them thought of him being a trecherous liar ( Abu Bakr ) and then same in the khilafat of Umar. Then again it's Abbas that has come with the dispute, meaning that it was him who wanted the split, not Ali (as). Had it been Ali (as) then Abbas would've told him the supposed lie Ali (as) told in order to take the land or the property for himself. There has been no mention of such lie that he's claiming.
That's why i said, improve your comprehension undrstanding skills and read the explanation i gave, it covers all yours doubts. Read it properly.

Quote
Second, why is it that Ali (as) kept quiet and didn't say a word ? He wasn't a child and neither was he affraid of Abbas. Why hasn't he said anything in this hadith other than " Yes " or " No ". There are no arguments that were presented other than an accusation. And, a supposed fight over the land.
Because, Abbas was his uncle. So its called respect. You might find elders getting aggressive on us, they say things which they really don't mean, but we don't argue back to them. That's called respect.

If Ali (as) had respect for Abbas, why did they not solve the dispute amongst themselves ? You do accept there was a dispute, so, why should Ali (as) become quiet when he's infront of Umar yet he chooses to speak his mind in front of Abbas ? Secondly, waa the accusation of Abbas correct the first time around that we take him seriously this time ? He said similar things in regarda to both Abu Bakr amd Umar. Why do we neglect that part and only consider this to be true ?
Man!! Please read the hadeeth in your mother tongue, if its urdu, read the urdu translation, Abbas(RA) never said such thing for Abubakr(RA) or Umar(RA). I can help you understand an issue, but if you can't grasp english properly then I'm helpless. What I provided you was a plain and clear explanation in English, yet you bring up arguments which apparently show that either you didn't read a word of it or you don't understand english properly.

As for why Didn't Ali and Abbas solve the dispute, if Ali(RA) respected Abbas(RA), then that was a legal issue, hence it was best sorted out infront of the legal authority. And I believe you are quite young and have no experience of worldly or legal affairs.

What is the meaning of this, brother ?
" Both of you came to demand your shares from the property (left behind by the Messenger of Allah). (Referring to Hadrat 'Abbas), he said: You demanded your share from the property of your nephew, and he (referring to 'Ali) demanded a share on behalf of his wife from the property of her father. Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) had said:" We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity." So both of you thought him to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest. And Allah knows that he was true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. When Abu Bakr passed away and (I have become) the successor of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) and Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him), you thought me to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest.

Brother, You know you are quoting it OUT OF CONTEXT. So how will you understand a hadeeth quoting it OUT OF CONTEXT?

For understanding it WITH CONTEXT READ THIS, IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE IN THIS EXPLNATION THEN PLEASE LET ME KNOW:
Quote
Explanation:

As we can see, Abbas started off calling Ali to be a “liar, sinful, treacherous, and dishonest” and then Omar used same terms(liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest). Notice, the argument wasn’t beween Abubakr and Ali nor between Umar and Ali, rather Umar was the one who was to judge between Ali and Abbas. In this case, Umar(ra) was just assuming an argument, for sake of argument, infact Ali and Abbas, didn’t deem nor utter a word against Abubakr nor Umar, and they both affirmed the hadeeth of Prophet(saw), regarding inheritance. Hence the correct understanding of this issue is that, Al-Abbas, started off by using those words to describe Ali, since they were disputing over the charity, what they shall be the guardian of and how to distribute it, so they wanted the property to be divided between them, but this would have appeared to people as, it is inheritance, which would be against the condition on which Umar entrusted them the property. Hence we read in Tarikh Al-Islam:

Narrated Al-Zuhri saying: Narrated to me Al-A’raj that he heard Abu Huraira saying: I heard the Messenger of Allah (saw) saying: “By the One in whose hand is my soul, my heirs do not divide anything of what I leave behind, what we leave is charity.” So this charity was in the hands of Ali(ra) that he overcame Al-Abbas in it, and their dispute was on that, so Umar refused to divide it between them, until Abbas left it and Ali(ra) overcame it. (Tarikh Al-Islam. Vol. 3, Pg. 27).

قَالَ أَبُو دَاوُدَ أَرَادَ أَنْ لاَ يُوقِعَ عَلَيْهِ اسْمَ قَسْمٍ ‏.

Abu Dawud said: He (‘Umar) intended that the name of division should not apply to it.(Sunan Abu Dawud).

So Umar was trying to make a point that, they shouldn’t be fighting over it nor ask for its division since it isn’t their property. Hence, in response to their dispute, Omar is implying that if Al-Abbas’s descriptions of Ali are correct, then Abu Bakr and Umar are to be described as such, because Abubakr(ra) and Umar(ra) never gave them that property as inheriance but rather Umar just entrusted them over it, on the condition of managing it in same way as Prophet(saw) used to manage it. And both Ali and Abbas agreed over this condition and even they affirmed the hadeeth of Prophet(saw) not leaving inheritance. But since they disputed over the property, and want to divide the entrusted property, it would appear to people as inheritance, so Umar had to remind them that, they shouldn’t be fighting over it nor ask for it to be divided, since it isn’t their property nor inheritance, which is why Umar said, what is being misinterpreted by Shiapen.

As for what al-`Abbas said to `Ali, those are the words of a father to a son. al-`Abbas said it indicating `Ali, because he was in the position of a son with him. He wanted to make him retract what he thought was a mistake.

Moreover, Umar did not approve of Abbas’s words against Ali; Umar took the correct view that people can get in arguments and make honest mistakes and nobody should simply jump to strong personal attacks like Abbas did against Ali, calling him a “liar, sinful, treacherous, and dishonest.” Therefore, Umar repeated the words of Abbas verbatim in order to prove a point, Umar was just making use of rhetoric. The problem is that these Shia propagandists have no hold of Arabic Balagha. If they did, they would know that direct translation in English would not give the proper understanding. This is an example of, (reductio ad absurdum; Latin: “reduction to the absurd”) also known as an apagogical argument, which is a type of logical argument where one assumes a claim for the sake of argument, derives an absurd or ridiculous outcome, and then concludes that the original assumption must have been wrong as it led to an absurd result.

We would like to give an example just to enrich the mind: A mother and father who had told their two sons that the capitol of France was Paris. A few days later, the two sons get in an argument over the capitol of France. One brother says the capitol is Berlin, whereas the other says the capitol is London. When they go to their father to arbitrate over this matter, one brother says about the other: “Father, can you settle this dispute of mine with my idiot brother who thinks the capitol of France is Berlin?” The father is not appalled at the fact that his two little sons forgot the capitol of France; this is a mistake that anybody can make. But what he is appalled at is the language used by this son, calling his brother an “idiot.” The father then says: “So you thought of Mom as an idiot when she said that Paris was the capitol of France, and you thought I was an idiot when I said that too?” By saying this, the father is trying to dissuade the son from jumping to conclusions about his brother’s character, because in such a process, he would also believe his mother and father to be idiots as well.

Hence, Umar was simply repeating the words of Abbas verbatim. How can the Shias ignore this “coincidence” especially in light of Arabic Balagha? It is obvious from this that Umar was proving a point, and his words should thus be analyzed in this context. Another important observation is that the Shia propagandists will say that it was Ali who called Abu Bakr and Umar to be a “liar, sinful, treacherous, and dishonest.” But the reality is that, it was merely Umar who said that Abbas was implying this. There is a significant point.

What further proves our point is that `Ali’s words to Abu Bakr are documented after the incident regarding the demand of inheritance, in Sahih al-Bukhari:

إِنَّا قَدْ عَرَفْنَا فَضْلَكَ، وَمَا أَعْطَاكَ، اللَّهُ وَلَمْ نَنْفَسْ عَلَيْكَ خَيْرًا سَاقَهُ اللَّهُ إِلَيْكَ، وَلَكِنَّكَ اسْتَبْدَدْتَ عَلَيْنَا بِالأَمْرِ

[O Abu Bakr, we know well your superiority and what Allah has given you, and we are not jealous of the goodness that Allah has bestowed upon you, but you did not consult us.]

Secondly, it is unthinkable that either Al-Abbas or Ali thought of Abu Bakr or Omar in such manner. This is because both caliphs were approached by both men, who were seeking justice. It is not logical for someone to seek justice from someone that they saw as a liar, sinful, treacherous, and dishonest.

Thirdly, notice the hadeeth that how Abbas(ra) referred to ‘Umar(ra) as “Ameer-ul-mu’mineen(leader of the believers)!” This proves that ‘Umar was a legitimate Khaleefah, contrary to shi’aa lies and propaganda.

Fourthly, Ali and al-`Abbas, when they came to `Umar, they were not asking for Fadak or Khaybar, they just asked for control of the Sadaqat of Madinah from the property of banu al-Nadeer(Jews) and Mukhayreeq as they believed they were at least entitled to do so.

We read in the books of Sunan:

عَلِيًّا، وَالْعَبَّاسَ رضي الله عنهما يختصمان فيما أفاء الله على رَسُولِ اللَّهِ مِنْ أَمْوَالِ بَنِي النَّضِير

[`Ali and al-`Abbas both disputed over what Allah has given as Fay’ to his messenger from the property of banu al-Nadeer.]

هُمَا يَخْتَصِمَانِ فِي الصَّوَافِي الَّتِي أَفَاءَ اللَّهُ عَلَى رَسُولِهِ مِنْ أَمْوَالِ بَنِي النَّضِير

[And they were disputing regarding the pure possessions that Allah granted as Fay’ to his messenger (saw) from bani al-Nadeer.]

Two years into his Khilafah, `Umar ibn al-Khattab out of good will towards them entrusted the Sadaqat of Madinah to both men since they were the heads of Ahlul-Bayt, he never gave it to them as inheritance, but just appointed them over it to care for it and benefit from it and to distribute its produce as the Prophet (saw) and Abu Bakr did before.

`Ali asked for his wife’s part to be entrusted to him and al-`Abbas asked for his nephew’s part to be entrusted to him, but `Umar said what we read in Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari.

Umar said: I said: If you wish that I should entrust it to you, it will be on the condition that both of you will undertake to abide by a pledge made with Allah that you will use it in the same way as the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used it. (Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4349)

Umar said: I said to you both, ‘If you wish, I will place it in your custody on condition that you both will manage it in the same way as Allah’s Apostle and Abu Bakr did and as I have been doing since I took charge of managing it; otherwise, do not speak to me anymore about it.’ Then you both said, ‘Give it to us on that (condition).’ So I gave it to you on that condition…”I beseech you both by Allah, didn’t I give you all that property on that condition?” They said, “Yes.” (Sahih Bukhari Vol. 9, Book 92, Hadith 408)

Al-`Abbas and `Ali then disputed about the charity what they shall be the guardian of and how to distribute it’, it appears as if al-`Abbas was angry at `Ali so much that he called him names, so they both went to `Umar asking him to decide between them by dividing the entrusted property. `Umar refused to give any other judgment and told them to return it if they’re unable to manage it.

He said:

فَإِنْ عَجَزْتُمَا عَنْهُ فَادْفَعَا إِلَيَّ فَأَنَا أَكْفِيكُمَاهُ

[If you are unable to run this land, then return it to me and I shall save you the effort.].

As for the Fay’ of the lands of Khaybar including Fadak, `Umar held on to them and kept them well managed and properly taken care of as the Prophet (saw) used them for the urgent needs of the nation.

Thus, it is clear that both Abbas and Ali understood that although the produce of the land goes to charity, yet they viewed that, they can still manage the share which they would have got as inheritance, by being its trustees, and eat from it, since the Prophet (saw) said: “The family of Muhammad may eat from it.” To them being in control of this Waqf did not pose any contradiction to the prophetic narration.

A question may be asked, does this mean that since both went to `Umar each man asking for his part, and that `Umar reminded them of the narration, does it mean that they reject the prophet’s (saw) narration? As clarified above the answer is NO, he reminded them the hadeeth because both of them were disputing over the property and wanted to divide the entrusted property, which would have appeared to people as, inheritance, So Umar reminded them that, they shouldn’t ask for it, since it isn’t their property nor inheritance, hence Umar(ra) mentioned the hadeeth and asked their view on it. And both of them in the same narration affirmed it to be a hadeeth of Prophet(saw).

Lastly, both knew full well that `Umar was present when Abu Bakr made his ruling and agreed with him, this can only mean -as is apparent from the narration- that they only asked to control it.

IMPORTANTLY: One of the strongest facts which supports our view is that, when Ali(ra) became Caliph, he never over rule the decision of Abubakr(ra) and Umar(ra), and supposedly didn’t implement on the rule of Quran, by giving the share of inheritance to the remaining heirs of Prophet(saw). Like wives of Prophet(saw) and children of Abbas(ra), etc, though Ali(ra) was a person who would go to any extent in following Quran and Sunnah. Thus, this clearly proves that Ali(ra) accepted the hadeeth narrated by Abubakr(ra).

I've read that brother. And, this is doing exactly what you're accusing me of; taking things out of context and starting off at the accusation of Abbas. You said they were calling Ali (as) that and then you said he didn't call the shaykhain that. It's clear as day that they didn't agree with the statement of Abu Bakr, so much so, that even Umar had to mention it.
Ya Ali (as) Madad

Hani

Re: Verse 33:33 - Gender change from feminine to masculine
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2016, 08:48:14 PM »
In no hadith has Abu Bakr said that " Prophet said that my family can eat from it as well." Abu Bakr himself made that claim that they can eat from it as well if they wish to do so.

Secondly, when he said in the hadith " Whatever we leave is to be given in charity " doesn't that mean that it has become charity by default since the prophet (sawa) has passed and no longer gets to decide that they may eat from it ?

Do you have any ahadith regarding the endowments of the prophet (sawa) being left with Abu Bakr or that the " leader " gets to decide what happens to his land since it wasn't under anyone's control other than Prophet Muhammad (sawa) himself when he was alive ? Did he ever point to anyone who would take care of his matters after him ?

No one is trying to change subjects or jumping here and there. These questions arise when you give people hallway answers and expect them to believe it.

Not your average, Shia lol.

Actually you are an average Shia because you're wrong, the Prophet (saw) did say "إنما يأكل آل محمد في هذا المال"

If you haven't done sufficient research that's not our problem. Refer to the Hadith of Ma`mar from al-Zuhri from `Urwah from `A'ishah in Bukhari and the Hadith of `Uqayl from Zuhri from `Urwah from `A'ishah in abu Ya`la.

So that first point of yours is dropped.

Your second point makes no sense, the land was made a Waqf and the man who makes it a Waqf gets to decide what it is used for and nobody may alter that after him.

Your third point doesn't require a Hadith, the Prophet (saw) was in charge of distributing the charities from his land when he was alive, after he dies the man who takes his place assumes this responsibility. It was also specifically mentioned in some narrations that the one in charge afterwards may assume this responsibility. There's absolutely no reason why those lands would go to his family members since they are no longer his possessions the moment he turned them into a Waqf, therefore they go to the government that makes sure the matter is fulfilled as the Prophet (saw) requested. It was a habit of the Muslims that Zakat goes to the man in charge and he divides it.

This makes sense since the moment you hand the lands to the family they will begin to fight over them, as was the case between `Ali and al-`Abbas.

عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

 

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