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General Discussion / Re: Tawhid thread.
« Last post by Soccer on January 24, 2023, 06:23:49 PM »
Salam

Soft polytheism is a semantic issue. This is why Quran says "If God were to take a son/daughter, he would have taken is from who he has chosen from who he has created" and said to Mohammad (s) "Say: If God took a son, then it is me who is the foremost of the worshipers", meaning it would be Mohammad (s) himself, but how can Mohammad (s) worship God and be equated with God? It's a paradox. It's about holding a word unique for God out of respect for God's exalted nature above all exalted ones.

Hard polytheism, is a theological issue. This is where Quran says "If there was god with God, the two (heaven and earth) would be corrupted and all that is in it". This you have to see what the universe and creation and morality would be without an absolute being. And said "Are there any of your associates who guide to the truth, God guides to the truth...", meaning, Prophets and Messengers get their guidance from God, without God there is no guidance to others, and if the world was without an absolute being, there is no truth nor guidance to it or by it. This would mean there is no light path to ascend by and no absolute being to go towards, hence no direction is right nor a path wrong, all equally meaningless. And it means for soft polytheism, the exalted ones don't guide to God by their own, but are guided by God and guide and intercede upon the path and help souls by God's permission and that their light and power and guiding sustenance all emanates from the source (God), the guide guides by God and God is the True Guide in the guidance.

And also, soft polytheism, has other arguments. Even if they were not gonna call them gods, exalting beings without proof of their intermediation and intercession from God, is hidden intention of polytheism. Thus exalted ones need proof of their stations and titles and realities from God. They require proofs in form of scripture or legacy of knowledge and in reality, both, though one suffices.
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From Al-Kafi


H 497, Ch. 13, h 3 Ahmad ibn Idris has narrated from Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Jabbar from ibn Fudala from Tha‘laba ibn Maymun from abu al-Jarud who has said that he said the following to Imam abu Ja‘far (a.s.). "Allah has given a great deal of good to the people of the heavenly books." The Imam (a.s.) then asked, "What is it?" I then said it said in Holy Quran, "We sent Our guidance to them so that perhaps they might take heed. (28:51) (Some of) the followers of the Bible believe in the Quran (28:52). When it is recited to them, they say, "We believe in it. It is the Truth from our Lord. We were Muslims before it was revealed" (28:53). These will receive double reward for their forbearance, replacing evil by virtue, and for their spending for the cause of God." (28:54) The Imam (a.s.) said, "Allah has given you also a great deal of good as He has given to them and he recited, ‘Believers, have fear of God and believe in His Messenger. God will grant you a double share of mercy, a light by which you can walk, and forgive your sins. God is Allforgiving and All-merciful.’ (57:28) The light mentioned in this verse mean the Imam (a.s.) who you follow.’"


H 498, Ch. 13, h 4 Ahmad ibn Mahran has narrated from ‘Abd al-‘Azim ibn ‘Abdallah al-Hassani from Ali ibn Asbat and al-Hassan ibn Mahbub from abu Ayyub from abu Khalid al-kabuli who has said that he asked Imam abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) about the meaning of the words of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, in the following verse of the Holy Quran. "Those who believe in him, honor and help him, and follow the light which is sent down to him, will have everlasting happiness." (7:157) The Imams (a.s.) said, "O abu Khalid, the light in this verse, I swear by Allah, means the Imams. O abu Khalid the light of the Imam (a.s.) in the hearts of the true believers is more bright than the light of the sun in midday. It is they who brighten the hearts of the true believers and Allah withholds their light from reaching whomever He would will, thus, their hearts become dark and Allah covers them with the darknesss

H 500, Ch. 13, h 6 Ahmad ibn Idris has narrated from al-husayn ibn ‘Ubadallah from Muhammad ibn al-Hassan and Musa ibn ‘umar from al-hassan ibn Mahbub from Muhammad ibn al-Fudayl who has said that he asked abu al-Hassan (a.s.) about the meaning of the words of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, in the following verse of the Holy Quran. "They want to put out the light of God with their mouths, but God will certainly make His light shine forever - even though the unbelievers may dislike this." (61:8) The Imam (a.s.) said, "They want to put out the divine authority of Amir al-Mu’minin (a.s.) with their mouths. ‘but Allah completes His light’ means the Imams (a.s.) as mentioned in, "Those who believe in him, honor and help him, and follow the light which is sent down to him, will have everlasting happiness." (7:157) The light stands for Imam (a.s.)."
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Peace be on the guides at the time of dangers, the one who leave them has perished and whoever adheres to them will attain the destination. Peace upon the one whose knowledge is like the pouring cloud, countinous rain, shading sky, widespread earth, gushing water source, pond and garden. Peace be on you O one who is like the trustworthy companion, an affectionate father and a loving mother to her infant. Peace be on you, O comfort for the servants at the time of calamity, clear and curing proof for them.

Same source as above.
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O one whose superiority is like the shinning and rising sun, which lightens the worlds with its light, which is on the horizon where no hands and sights can reach. Peace be on you, O the brilliant full-moons, the luminous lanterns, the shinning lights, the guiding stars in the darkness of night and in the paths of the wasteland and the deepness of the ocean. Peace be on you, O one whose love is like the sweet water for the thirsty, the healthy and beneficial food for the hungry, the guides for the guidance, the rescuers in destruction, the fire upon the hill for those who seek guidance.

Sahifa Radhvia
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Salam

From ziyarat of Imam Ali Al-Hadi (a):


walttariqati alwusta
the just and equitable course,

نُورِ قُلُوبِ ٱلْمُؤْمِنِينَ
nuri qulubi almu'minina
the light of the faithful believers hearts,

وَوَلِيِّ ٱلْمُتَّقِينَ
wa waliyyi almuttaqina
the Wali of the pious ones,

وَصَاحِبِ ٱلْمُخْلِصِينَ
wa Ľahibi almukhliĽina
and the companion of the sincere.
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General Discussion / Re: Was Iblis an Angel?
« Last post by Soccer on January 24, 2023, 04:39:45 PM »
Salam

Quran talks about worship of "gods" of the Polytheistic Arabs if they were real, to be in fact, Angels, but then says, in fact, they are not Angels, but Jinn and not only Jinn, but specifically Shayateen.

The emphasis they were not in fact Angels but Jinn, would not make sense if Angels were not a subset of Jinn.

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Salam

The souls were first created and this is considered to be dead.

There Ahlulbayt (a) were foremost and first to respond to God.

Then God created them as lights to glorify him for fourteen thousand years.

The Jinn were created after that, and back then thought the Ahlulbayt were one of them since Ahlulbayt (a) did not take physical form but existed in a way connected to Angels and taught them to glorify God and oneness of God.

When God created Adam (a), Ahlulbayt (a) were no longer tasked to manage Angels (a).

Angels are saints among Jinn - and a subset of Angels are God's Angels or the Angels of proximity and they the the chosen ones from them.

Angels like saints among humans can fall and be mislead, but God's Angels like chosen Prophets from humans, cannot deviate. They can slip but will go back to straight path as in the case of Adam (a) when he ate of the tree and Nuh (a) when he was confused if God broke his promise or not.

Ahlulbayt (a) being the highest light, we can assume, they were with all Prophets (a), but Quran says that Mohammad (s) was not with Musa (a) nor present with what took place with Mariam (a). Hence, Ahlulbayt (a) were not present with all Prophets (a) inwardly.

Ahlulbayt (a) when Mohammad (s) came to this world, took place of the heavenly family/house and stars in the sky, and augmented all Angels to be stronger as well changed a lot in terms of what Kahens and sorcerers can do.

They are now the Authority over Angels (a) including Angel of death, and nothing occurs but through them and God's permission. This does not mean they micro-manage everything but they oversee everything and can always intervene and direct Angels if they see need to direct them pertaining to a matter.

As for the Torah, it talks about exalted ones taking rest on the seventh day and they are those who were envied by Adam, and the exalted souls did create the universe, and took rest on the seventh day. God does not need rest, but they being limited beings were tired.

The exalted ones who were the word per the Gospels.

If Allah (swt) did not do it this way, Iblis would not be able to disbelieve. But he believes Ahlulbayt (a) are possessed or are sorcerers, and does not believe in the Lord of the universe being the absolute being even though he fears the power of the God of Ahlulbayt (a), he does not believe in oneness of God.

He is similar to Pharaoh in that he believes he will overthrow and overpower the God one day but is waiting for right time. Deeply inside, he has despaired of this since revelation of Mohammad (s) but has masked himself in the belief if he finds enough followers and sorcerers, he can gain enough power - he and his champions, to overthrow Ahlulbayt (a) and Angels (a). Self-delusion while he never comes close to their power and never been able to stop God's destruction  in the past.

The day of judgment is explained in a way that God controls is but through the witnesses from him mainly the chosen exalted humans and will be asked "is this sorcery or do you not see?"

The power emanated from God's Names are linked to God in that the power emanates from God obviously, but Shayateen and sorcerers blind themselves to that through sheer irrational denial, and think it's generated by Ahlulbayt (a) themselves. This is why Salawat is part of acknowledging Tawhid.

Salam

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Quran-Tafseer / Re: Source for what is mentioned in a video
« Last post by Soccer on January 20, 2023, 06:00:16 PM »
Salam

It's a way to recite Quran.
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Quran-Tafseer / Re: Source for what is mentioned in a video
« Last post by Soccer on January 20, 2023, 05:47:39 PM »
I have found it where it is from.

Shia hadith: ـ أَبُو عَلِيٍّ الأشْعَرِيُّ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَبْدِ الْجَبَّارِ عَنْ صَفْوَانَ عَنْ إِسْحَاقَ بْنِ عَمَّارٍ عَنْ أَبِي بَصِيرٍ عَنْ أَبِي جَعْفَرٍ (عَلَيهِ السَّلام) قَالَ نَزَلَ الْقُرْآنُ أَرْبَعَةَ أَرْبَاعٍ رُبُعٌ فِينَا وَرُبُعٌ فِي عَدُوِّنَا وَرُبُعٌ سُنَنٌ وَأَمْثَالٌ وَرُبُعٌ فَرَائِضُ وَأَحْكَامٌ.

Abu Ali al-Ash’ari has narrated from Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Jabbar from Safwan from Ishaq ibn ‘Ammar from abu Basir from abu Ja’far who has said the following: “The Holy Quran came in four parts: One fourth is about us (Ahl al-Bayt) one fourth about our enemies, one about traditions and axioms and one fourth about obligations and laws.”

Majlisi: موثق (reliable) - "Mir‘at al ‘Uqul Fi Sharh Akhbar Al al Rasul" (2/517)

Question to Twelvers: In this Hadith, Tawheed and Prophets are not even mentioned, so Twelvers believe that Ahlul Bayt is more important than Tawheed and Prophets?

Salam

If a hadith contradicts Quran or Reason, it is to be thrown away per Rasool (s).

But does this hadith contradict either? First, I don't know, I have not counted all verses.

But as far as Tawhid and Nubuwa goes, they are used to prove the position of Ahlulbayt (a).

For example, the signs of God from cattle, horses, fruits, rain, sun and moon, all lead to the phrase and conclusion:

وَعَلَى اللَّهِ قَصْدُ السَّبِيلِ وَمِنْهَا جَائِرٌ ۚ وَلَوْ شَاءَ لَهَدَاكُمْ أَجْمَعِينَ | Upon God is directing of the path, and from it are deviations, and had He wished He would have guided you all. | An-Nahl : 9

So the signs of God's Lordship points to guidance from him.

As for Anbiya being revealed books and it's reasoning point to one last household of the revelation which seeking them for signs and guidance is part of relying on God:

يَتَوَكَّلُونَ | —those who are patient and who rely on their Lord. | An-Nahl : 42
وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِنْ قَبْلِكَ إِلَّا رِجَالًا نُوحِي إِلَيْهِمْ ۚ فَاسْأَلُوا أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ لَا تَعْلَمُونَ | And We did not send before you except as men to whom We revealed Therefore Ask the Family of the Reminder if you do not know. | An-Nahl : 43
بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ وَالزُّبُرِ ۗ وَأَنْزَلْنَا إِلَيْكَ الذِّكْرَ لِتُبَيِّنَ لِلنَّاسِ مَا نُزِّلَ إِلَيْهِمْ وَلَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَفَكَّرُونَ | [We sent them] with manifest proofs and scriptures and We have sent down the reminder to you so that you may clarify for the people that which has been sent down to them, so that they may reflect. | An-Nahl : 44

And else where, talks about God guiding to the truth:


قُلْ هَلْ مِنْ شُرَكَائِكُمْ مَنْ يَهْدِي إِلَى الْحَقِّ ۚ قُلِ اللَّهُ يَهْدِي لِلْحَقِّ ۗ أَفَمَنْ يَهْدِي إِلَى الْحَقِّ أَحَقُّ أَنْ يُتَّبَعَ أَمَّنْ لَا يَهِدِّي إِلَّا أَنْ يُهْدَىٰ ۖ فَمَا لَكُمْ كَيْفَ تَحْكُمُونَ | Say, ‘Is there anyone among your partners who may guide to the truth?’ Say, ‘Allah guides to the truth. Is He who guides to the truth worthier to be followed, or he who is not guided unless shown the way? What is the matter with you? How do you judge?’ | Yunus : 35

Without God, there is no way to truth and if multiple gods there would be no truth or source of it but gods would have their own views on morality or not, but be baseless, but the ways and courses appointed by God guide by the truth in a way that is linked to God's Oneness and emanation of his Authority and Command in creation.


So I think this hadith is saying Tawhid cannot be separated from Nubuwa, Welayah, Imama, and Resalah.

The wisdom of Nubuwa coming to an end implies Quran is to be safeguarded. You cannot believe Nubuwa can end but Quran is corrupted.

The same is true for me of believing Imams.   Anbiya were Imams, and so this role continues. God continues to send humans to guide and part of the wisdom of ending Nubuwa is to perfect and complete the light of the position Mohammad (s) had as a leader ruler guide king light and companion in the journey to God.



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Quran-Tafseer / Re: Source for what is mentioned in a video
« Last post by Rauf on January 19, 2023, 07:43:42 PM »
I have found it where it is from.

Shia hadith: ـ أَبُو عَلِيٍّ الأشْعَرِيُّ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَبْدِ الْجَبَّارِ عَنْ صَفْوَانَ عَنْ إِسْحَاقَ بْنِ عَمَّارٍ عَنْ أَبِي بَصِيرٍ عَنْ أَبِي جَعْفَرٍ (عَلَيهِ السَّلام) قَالَ نَزَلَ الْقُرْآنُ أَرْبَعَةَ أَرْبَاعٍ رُبُعٌ فِينَا وَرُبُعٌ فِي عَدُوِّنَا وَرُبُعٌ سُنَنٌ وَأَمْثَالٌ وَرُبُعٌ فَرَائِضُ وَأَحْكَامٌ.

Abu Ali al-Ash’ari has narrated from Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Jabbar from Safwan from Ishaq ibn ‘Ammar from abu Basir from abu Ja’far who has said the following: “The Holy Quran came in four parts: One fourth is about us (Ahl al-Bayt) one fourth about our enemies, one about traditions and axioms and one fourth about obligations and laws.”

Majlisi: موثق (reliable) - "Mir‘at al ‘Uqul Fi Sharh Akhbar Al al Rasul" (2/517)

Question to Twelvers: In this Hadith, Tawheed and Prophets are not even mentioned, so Twelvers believe that Ahlul Bayt is more important than Tawheed and Prophets?
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