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General Discussion / Re: Who are you? And who am I?
« Last post by Soccer on November 04, 2022, 02:11:46 PM »

This is where shaytaan comes into your dreams and makes you believe you are seeing sorcerers and magic and light 😂😂😂😂😂😂 honestly you are a straight up DIMWIT!!!


Allah (swt) wants us to connect with himself and Rasool (s) and his family (a).

وَإِنْ كَانَ كَبُرَ عَلَيْكَ إِعْرَاضُهُمْ فَإِنِ اسْتَطَعْتَ أَنْ تَبْتَغِيَ نَفَقًا فِي الْأَرْضِ أَوْ سُلَّمًا فِي السَّمَاءِ فَتَأْتِيَهُمْ بِآيَةٍ ۚ وَلَوْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ لَجَمَعَهُمْ عَلَى الْهُدَىٰ ۚ فَلَا تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْجَاهِلِينَ | And should their aversion be hard on you, find, if you can, a tunnel into the ground, or a ladder into sky, that you may bring them a sign. Had Allah wished, He would have brought them together on guidance. So do not be one of the ignorant. | Al-An'aam : 35

This shows if Mohammad (s) can connect people to this reality, he would, but it's not his fault people turn away.

Surah Hijr expands on why he doesn't connect them:

وَلَوْ فَتَحْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ بَابًا مِنَ السَّمَاءِ فَظَلُّوا فِيهِ يَعْرُجُونَ | Were We to open for them a gate of the sky, so that they could go on ascending through it, | Al-Hijr : 14

لَقَالُوا إِنَّمَا سُكِّرَتْ أَبْصَارُنَا بَلْ نَحْنُ قَوْمٌ مَسْحُورُونَ | they would surely say, ‘Indeed a spell has been cast on our eyes; indeed, we are a bewitched lot.’ | Al-Hijr : 15

وَلَقَدْ جَعَلْنَا فِي السَّمَاءِ بُرُوجًا وَزَيَّنَّاهَا لِلنَّاظِرِينَ | Certainly We have made mansions in the sky and adorned them for the onlookers, | Al-Hijr : 16

وَحَفِظْنَاهَا مِنْ كُلِّ شَيْطَانٍ رَجِيمٍ | and We have guarded it from every outcast Satan, | Al-Hijr : 17

إِلَّا مَنِ اسْتَرَقَ السَّمْعَ فَأَتْبَعَهُ شِهَابٌ مُبِينٌ | except someone who may eavesdrop, whereat there pursues him a manifest flame. | Al-Hijr : 18


This means if we are not one of the "onlookers" to the lanterns of light in the sky, we are blinded only because God knows we are not ready.

Also, the verses say they are weapons/missiles against devils, and we read in Ziyarats that Imams (a) are light of those in the darkness as well.

This means even in our darkness and affliction, we can drive away and fight the devils by these beautiful names of God.

It's the same reason if Imam Mahdi (a) has not come to us with physical miracles, it's because, God knows there is a high chance of accusing him and all Messengers in reality, of being sorcerers.

Remember Pharaoh saw all type of signs, physical and spiritual, but he saw that Musa (a) was possessed by "Allah" and that he can reach "Allah".

So we have to drive away rebellion and arrogance to chosen ones, defeat hypocrisy, and inshallah, Allah's (swt) light and miracles and signs and wonders will manifest to us in time.

Imamah-Ghaybah / An overview of the word "Ummat"
« Last post by Soccer on October 26, 2022, 10:18:44 PM »

The word for people in clearest manner is "Qawm". Ummatan can mean people but it's emphasizing they are upon a similar path and collectively as a group heading together upon a course when used for a people. The word "Ahla" can mean people too, but it's primary meaning is a family.  When applied to a people it's emphasizing something unites them and makes them close to each other. Usually, when the context shows it can't mean family, then it means people.

In Quran, we read "Guide us the straight bridge" (1:6). A bridge is a path and course as well, but the word implies you can fall off of it.

The word Sabeel is used in Quran as well, and it's said "from it are deviations" in Surah Nahl.

The word Imam means leader, but it can by parable also mean "path" as we see in Surah Hijr, it refers to an manifest road, because the road leads to a way, it can be by parable an Imam.

A book can also parable be a leader if it leads and is a course directing humans.  Torah is said to have been a leader.

The word Naqeeb is only used once in Quran but given the emphasis on ships that sail by God's winds or by God's Name and ships that are big signs per Quran and waypoints, it's obviously that was supposed to leave an impression on the heart, that the Twelve Captains of the ship of salvation are not just anybody, but who connecting to is part of Salah, who in Bani-Israel ended up becoming Messengers, and were to be helped.

The emphasis on Imams who guide by God's command takes place twice in Quran.

The word Ummatan takes place in that, its emphasized that people astray emphasize they found forefathers on a course and are following their footsteps.

Ibrahim is emphasized to be an ummat, and this means he is a course towards God. If followed, he would take people to God.

Branches is often translate as tribes but tribes are in fact branches going back to a route.  For example, if there was such a thing as twelve tribes of Israel (which I don't believe myself), it would mean they all branches of Yaqoub.

Branches however has a more parable meaning, and it can be seen with the emphasis on twelve rivers. In Arabic, the branches comes from the notion of tree branching, when it branches off, that is called Sibt. In the original Hebrew, it has similar, but it refers to when water splits and branches off directions. This is why the Twelve split of springs is important. It keeps what is meant by the word "branches".

Now in Surah Araaf, the light of God is emphasized and no where does the emphasis of the word "follow" take place more in Quran. It's specializes on emphasizing on the word "follow".

The Twelve Successors of Musa (a) can be said to be each a course in themselves, making twelve courses after Musa (a), but from another perspective, they are one course.  As they guide by the truth and are not divided upon it, the truth and light is one and so they are one path.

But each of them is that very path too, and so it can be said they were split in twelve courses from one perspective and are one course from another.

Now this goes back to the word Captains and Ships, as they direct society upon a path. Every people knew their drinking place meant they knew the source of guidance from God and light.

The "best ummat" brought out for humanity, in this sense, must keep in mind this.  It means Mohammad (s) and his family (a) are the best course towards God. In other words it's referring them as leaders but as a collective pathway towards God.

They are also the intermediate between God and people.   The word "wusatan" takes place in exactly the half way point of Surah Baqara. It can mean that middle in the sense of not going in extremes, or it can mean that their rights are between God and believers or it can mean they are midway between "unseen" and "seen", the inward and outward, and are the intermediation between God and people. That is they are too be exalted above believers, but glorified below divinity as divinity belongs to God alone. So all these are possible meanings.  He made them a intermediate course towards God and that they be witnesses too.

According to hadiths "the best course brought out for the humans" refers to Ahlulbayt. This would go back to 3:33 nicely as well as the Mubahila event.

In Surah Baqara, there is emphasis on leadership and authority and kings appointed by God and so this goes well with all the talk about witnesses through out Quran and showing the witnesses are an intermediate course from God.

In Surah A'araf given how much emphasis on on follow, the branches of Musa (a) starting from Haroun (a) ending with Isa (a) are emphasized to be one course, but also twelve courses individually.

In Surah Baqara, the word Asbaat is used to emphasized on the unity of Ibrahim, Ismail, Isaac, and Yaqoub. Yusuf would be a branch too. It's emphasized not to differ in importance of any of them.

In Surah Auli-Imran, the word Asbat is emphasized with exact same verse found in Surah Baqara in this regard, and it goes well with 3:33 as well leads up to the word "best course brought out for sake of the humans".

In Surah Nahl, we see there is a huge emphasis on God's favors and that it's upon him to guide. What is also linked in Surah Nahl is the talk of star as a guide. The previous surah (Surah Hijr) emphasized that if God were to open a gateway to the heavens, the disbelievers ascending would just accuse Mohammad (s) of sorcery and believed their vision was intoxicated and that sorcery was done upon them.

This leads to the talk about "adorning the heaven" for those who look and the stars of guidance which are also weapons against Devils.

The Surah Nahl emphasized upon this linking back to the Surah before, and so when it emphasizes it's upon God to direct/guide the path, it also emphasized to rely upon him. In this context of relying upon him, it emphasized on Mohammad's (s) role to clarify the revelation and right before that said to ask the family of the reminder when one does not know.

So Ahlulbayt (a) is part of relying upon God. It then ends saying this not new, Ibrahim was too a course from God.

All this leads to the word "ummat" that Ibrahim (a) was also an instance of.

When it talks about different species being an ummatan, it means they share a pathway they all are upon, a nature.

Humanity is also bound by a course, the first of them being Adam (a). The Quran emphasizes that Prophets (a) were from offspring of Adam (a) which would not be necessary if all humans were offspring.

It can be that bani means sons and daughters but more in a parable way. That is we are spiritually all bound to Adam. Children of "Israel" are believers that were bound to Yaqoub (a).

So in this humans because they are meant to follow Adam and God's striver and warrior of the time on earth, they are also an ummatan.

This means they are bound by God's covenant.

Animals too are bound by commands from God and follow the light and nature they know best.  They are bound to each other by that path instructed by God to them.

When Surah Araaf then later talks about divisions in Bani-Israel, and said we made them into ummats, of them righteous and some of them other then that, it means, God is talking about people as in the way they chosen to follow and identify with a people.

Going back to the Ummat that guide by the truth, it can be said from one side of the coin, this refers to Twelve Successors, but from another side, it refers to the followers. Since the true followers are taking these twelve humans as  a course, and they were divided also in twelve, it can be said from that point of view, it refers to their followers as well.

The twelve branches as courses are the Twelve Imams, not their followers, but because the Imams are the course of the followers and they don't take a different path, the righteous ummats referred to later, are the Twelve groups of people who followed the twelve Successors of Musa (a) in their time.

In this way, although "the best course brought out for humanity" refers to Ahlulbayt (a), it can be said, it's their position as a guidance, and so by implication it means the followers of Mohammad (s) and Ali (a) and their successors (a), are also the best people by having the best course from God, it implies Mohammad (s) and Ali (a) and their Ahlulbayt (a) are best in terms of being a course. Here it's not simply about merits, but in being a course towards God. So it implies their followers are the best as well. This doesn't mean every single follower of Mohammad (s) is greater then every single follower of Musa (A) for example, but overall, the best results in terms of guidance results from Ahlulbayt (a) as a course towards God.
General Discussion / Re: A brief proof why God does not have diverse attributes.
« Last post by Soccer on October 18, 2022, 02:52:07 PM »

Quran "You did not throw when you threw but Allah threw", "you did not throw" technically contradicts "You threw".

Allah (swt) obviously has all perfections.   Perfections are not only many but even infinite. Imam Zainal Abideen (a) says "o who's there is no bound to the glories of his face".

The issue is we agree but are arguing semantics. Semantics is just to convey an understanding.

Punishing is different than rewarding. Obviously that is true.

What is subtle and what I'm trying to convey, is the same exact reality that makes God compassionate and generous in rewarding believers, is the same, reality that makes him severe in punishment to disbelievers.

As you said, God's Essence is One. This is what I'm talking about. But what is the reality behind God's titles and aspects. They are manifesting his essence. 

Quran says God is one in Surah Ikhlas which is different then when it usually says God is One. When it usually says the context is there are no equals to God, but Surah Ikhlas ends with that remark, while, the truth, is God is One means his essence is single and undivided. We agree on this.

Samad though means he is filled and lacks nothing, and so this where yes, there are from our perspective diverse attributes.  But from Allah (swt) ultimate sight of himself, there is but a single essence. We need a lot of descent of glories to perceive aspects of God, but that is not to say, that his essence is actually divided.

So if we agree, then it at this point, just a dispute of how to use semantics.

It's as if to make analogy "You did not throw when you threw", to argue about whether Mohammad (s) should be said to have thrown or not. Both are true, he did throw and he did not throw, but it's about understanding what is meant by these two apparently contradicting statements that do no contradict.

I agree with you saying God is his Attributes is another way of expressing that. God punishing is different than being merciful, but it's manifesting in reality the same glory.

What I mean by his attributes all contain each other, is not that they actually each other when we think about them, but that they point to a reality of truth (God) that is referenced by all these attributes in a single undivided essence.

So we agree, and really, this is arguing about nothing at this point.
General Discussion / Re: A brief proof why God does not have diverse attributes.
« Last post by Ruh Muhaccer on October 18, 2022, 03:23:53 AM »
This is the most ridiculous thing I have come across in a while.
So absurd I am on the brink of reporting you for trolling.

You are saying that he has "attributes that differ ... from our perspective". Is the "logical" proof you provide afterwards not something from your perspective? What is so ultimate about his essence?
"One reason this can be inferred by us lowly creatures, is simply, that if he had diverse attributes, different attributes would lack what is in the other." This is both a non sequitur and a composition fallacy. If someone is a perfect football player, it does not mean he cannot be a perfect cook and it does not mean that if he is perfect in soccer and cooking at the same time that one lack the other. Because his "soccer abilities" are complete in themselves and his "cooking skills" are complete in themselves separately.

You go on saying that "He is ultimate life, ultimate this ... ultimate that". Did you not say a sentence earlier that he does not have differing attributes? So God has no Life, no Love, no Power, no Sight, no Wisdom ... that would be imperfection according to you because the attributes would be seperate. He would according to you, just have "Godness". Nothing more.

They differ vastly from our perspective, but are in reality, manifesting the same glory and beauty.
I thought they did not differ? If you can prove with "human reason" that they should not differ, they do not differ from our perspective because our reason is not seperate from us but a lense through which we see things.
This would entail that if God is manifesting wrath he is manifesting everything else at the samte time (if we forget that wrath, mercy etc. is all an illusion according to you and just a single attribute), which is nonsense. If your point is that he shows his "Allahness" which comprises all the names, then khalas your proof is unnesscary because no one disagrees. But does it mean that every time he shows his "Allahness" he shows is "Restrictorness (Al-QaabiD)" AND "Expander "Al-BaasiT"? He does not do "BasT and QabD" at the same time. These are mutually exclusive contraries it is impossible.

To see diversity in his essence, would make God formed of imperfect attributes and hence God is One with no divisions in his essence. A single essence.

I do not know what the rawaafidah believe but I have never seen a MUSLIM who thinks there is a multiplicity in Allah's essence his dhaat. That is a Christian or Polytheistic thing but has nothing to do with Islam. So why are you refuting things which Muslims do not believe anyways.

Of course that essence is also something that is filled with all possible glory, beauties, and greatness, and so lacks nothing.
Khalas, so suddenly he does have diverse attributes? Each sentence you write refutes the one preceding it. Don't you see that what you have done is simply say that his attributes are the same as his essence now?

You seem to be truly confused, but please do not spread the confusion online, May Allah Guide you my Shi'i friend.
General Sunni-Shia / Re: Iran gunned down dozens of sunnis last friday
« Last post by Soccer on October 17, 2022, 10:52:13 PM »
What is your view on Hijab?
General Sunni-Shia / Re: Iran gunned down dozens of sunnis last friday
« Last post by Soccer on October 17, 2022, 10:36:15 PM »
Yes that is exactly what I see. You gave no condemnation, you offered no dua for the deceased and you implied such news to be from liars. It's so obvious what's your take.

Oh shut up. You vile supporter of murderers, you have no standing to accuse anyone else of hate. Disgusting human being. I have never seen a people more hate filled towards normal Muslims and islamic figures than religious twelver shia. You pass over the killing of our brothers and sisters and then accuse us of hate. Filthy hypocrite.
The Quran says to investigate news before claiming it's true.
I do not know the reasons, but Quran says to be with truthful. If liars are going to always say things and you are going search the facts against the truthful ones, you are going to be accusing the truthful your whole life, and accusing them by liars and deceivers.

Let me tell you some facts. Hijaab in Quran is in two places. Surah Ahzab and Surah Noor. Both of them talk about Mohammad (s) being light of God.
But aside from that, both of them allude to women who are bothered and forced.

Hijab and modesty in Islam can be seen burdensome, but why did Quran enjoin it in the context it did. And both places warned about hypocrites disobeying Mohammad (s) and turning to other then his judgment.

Let me tell you something the west hides.  Almost every prostitute or sexual worker whether on a video showing stuff or just showing nudity in general and selling stuff regarding sex are FORCED.

There is a shadow government in my country (Canada), and no sexual worker trusts the supposed "sexual trafficking human right organizations", why is this the case? Per words of sexual trafficking human organizations, it's a misconception, that they can't trust cops or authorities or the organizations, but they must have heard that but not believed it, why is the case?

Why people sexually trafficked living double lives?

When so called human right organizations are not trust by all these women (99% of women in sexual work industry trafficked), why is this the case?

You really don't believe in Quran if you going to fight the majority of believers, over this issue.

I don't why they got killed, but I trust believers. Quran says not to trust confidently anyone but ourselves (ie. believers).

If they killed innocents, then they should make amends.

But right now Satan and his minions are desperate.

The west is controlled by rapists, sexual traffickers, child traffickers.

You won't even hear the truth about women here.  Go ask Native American Women what is happening, and they will tell you.

You chosen to trust the devil and his friends over believers.

I make my choice.

No one wants innocents killed, but there is a side that are deceivers, and there is a side that it is truthful.

God says to be with the truthful.

Remember the real battle is a battle of wits. There's a reason that Yahya head was given to a prostitute by the King that killed him and there's a reason Imam Hussain (A) reminded about that and that the skies cried blood over Nabi Yahya (a).

General Sunni-Shia / Re: Iran gunned down dozens of sunnis last friday
« Last post by Adil on October 16, 2022, 10:35:52 PM »
If that's what you see from my reply, then, it's telling a lot about your type of propaganda. Your hate unfortunately probably knows no bounds in this regard.

Yes that is exactly what I see. You gave no condemnation, you offered no dua for the deceased and you implied such news to be from liars. It's so obvious what's your take.

Oh shut up. You vile supporter of murderers, you have no standing to accuse anyone else of hate. Disgusting human being. I have never seen a people more hate filled towards normal Muslims and islamic figures than religious twelver shia. You pass over the killing of our brothers and sisters and then accuse us of hate. Filthy hypocrite.

Imamah-Ghaybah / Why didn't God say "seal of the sent ones".
« Last post by Soccer on October 12, 2022, 06:06:25 PM »

Sunnis believe there are no more sent ones after Mohammad (s). My question is simple: "Why did not Quran say "seal of the Mursaleen" and hence not allow any type of sent ones from God?

Some people can argue that Imamate is synonymous with Nubuwa and define Resalah in a way that makes as Rusul Anbiya, but this all ambiguous in itself. If God wanted to make clear there are no chosen ones from him after Mohammad (s), he could've simply used the word Mursaleen which includes witnesses, guides, kings appointed by him, leadership from him, all chosen ones sent from him, after Mohammad (S).

But he used one word, and it's possible, and there is no reason to assume Resalah and Nubuwa are two different roles even thought they are related to each other.

It's possible to see Nubuwa more on receiving information/news from God and channeling that to humanity.  That is it's particular to the role of channeling scripture from God to humanity.

It's possible to see Resalah more to do with conveying clear message in words of the Messenger himself, and not God's words, but explaining and manifest God's words and conveying God's message in that sense.

Ulil-Amr can be seen appointed by God similar way as Auli-Ibrahim are given a great authority in 4:54.

Given that is possible if there were to be no more chosen ones at all from God, the word "Mursaleen" would have removed all that ambiguity.

So if it's as Sunnis believe, no more sent ones from God among humans after Mohammad (S), why not just be clear and use this word?

The reward verses are accusations and responses.  The response by the believer in Surah Yaseen is that the sent ones don’t seek any reward from the people. However, from perspective, they are false, they obviously are seeking a reward as a motive.  From perspective, they are from God, what is the accusation then?

The sent ones are told to respond in a more "I understand your perspective if I'm false, but consider if I'm true, what the motivations would be then for God to establish what you accuse me as a reward". Thus God tells Messengers to respond in a more neutral way, while, we see a believer does not see that they seek a reward from him.

(1) Obeying Mohammad (s):

Perspective of truth:  Obeying Messenger is obeying God, submission is to God not to him.
Perspective of falsehood: Mohammad is seeking power and wants to control society.

(2) Praising Mohammad (s):
Perspective of truth: Appreciating and loving Messenger is a means to God and purifies the heart.
Perspective of falsehood: Wants to be famous and loves attention.

(3)  Mohammad (s) being a Ruler:
Perspective of truth: God is the True King and sent his Messengers to establish his authority and represent it properly. Government is important and God guides pertaining to it.
Perspective of falsehood: Power hungry, and wants to rule people for sake of power.

(4) Mohammad (s) having succession in his bloodline from Fatima (s):
Perspective of truth: God established such authority in offspring of Ibrahim (a), and offspring of Haroun (a), and always does this, to limit falsehood claimers of authority, and minimize how much can claim leadership and succession of the Prophet (s) and help truth in this regard and to create a unity of the Mutaqeen with regards to the leaders they follow generation after generation.  God puts his chosen in kinship relationships for a reason and out of wisdom.
Perspective of falsehood: Mohammad (s) wants a monarchy and is using religion to establish a legacy of a monarchy in his offspring.

The verse 42:23 in this respect, with a series of verses about accusation of the Prophet (S) including 25:57 saying “What reward do I ask regarding it except for who wants: to take towards their Lord a path”, is saying:
“All this accusation from perspective Mohammad (s) is false of a motive you accuse him, what is all that accusations but in reality, from perspective he is true, but to recognize and love the holy family for who they are”

Thus everything they accuse of reward, is in reality, just accepting Ahlulbayt for who they are. 

The Surah ends with that the path is of God’s and emphasized through out it’s really about God and his Welayah, and he sent Mohammad (s) and appointed his family, as a means to establish truth and his Welayah.
The path of those who God favored is the path of God, alas, to God return all matters.
General Sunni-Shia / Re: Iran gunned down dozens of sunnis last friday
« Last post by Soccer on October 06, 2022, 07:32:50 PM »
You can always expect religious shias to reply and support terrorism against Muslims who don't belong to their sect. Cry about karbala all year round but regularly kill more people than the amount who perished at Karbala.

If that's what you see from my reply, then, it's telling a lot about your type of propaganda. Your hate unfortunately probably knows no bounds in this regard.
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